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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 23:27   #301
Yahwe
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
My question wasn't about anyone else, nor did I claim that the English were civilized. (and before any Brits jump on me, I'm not claiming they weren't. I am dubious about such judgements when looking at the past based on the values of today.)
quite right.

we're far less civilised nowadays.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 23:46   #302
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Re: so, the english are raping again

its not that Perle's wicked or naturally bad. its knowing he's foreign that makes him so mad.
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Unread 21 Jan 2005, 23:57   #303
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
You are implying that the savage arabs needed civilized english masters to keep them from killing each other. the same english who were fighting their own neighbours for centuries again and again.
and the same english who claimed to stabilize the regio, did everything they could to keep it unstable.
what on earth are you talking about? british foreign policy was obsessed with stability
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 00:11   #304
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
its not that Perle's wicked or naturally bad. its knowing he's foreign that makes him so mad.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Yahwe again.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 01:39   #305
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I find it difficult to take that site seriously.

I laughed especially hard at
Quote:
The United States has a highly competitive political system dominated by the two major parties, Republican and Democratic. Although the Republican Party currently controls the presidency and both houses of Congress--the Senate and the House of Representatives--the margin of domination is slight. In the House, the breakdown is 229 Republicans, 205 Democrats, and 1 Independent; in the Senate there are 51 Republicans, 48 Democrats, and 1 Independent.
Yeah guys, highly competitive
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 01:54   #306
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
this is simply not true.
why dont you read about the issue befoire posting??
I am an iranian, I should know about the revoltuion. My entire family was in it
almost every sentence you said about the revolution is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Khomeni had been exiled to paris by the shah. after his supporters the shite islamic extremists overthrew the shah. ...... the successful fundamentalist islamic rebels
the iranian revolution was not by the shitite extremist. what a ridicilous assumption.

I quote: This early opposition was lead by Mehdi Bazargan and his Freedom Movement of Iran. It was a liberal secularist group that was closely linked to Massadegh's movement of the 1950s. This group saw significant support in Iran and abroad in the West.

More radical was Ali Shari'ati who combined Marxism and Shia orthodoxy in a revolutionary movement inspired by the Cuban and Algerian revolutions. His alleged murder in London in 1977, which was blamed on SAVAK agents, greatly inflamed tensions.

The Ulema were divided, some allying with the liberal secularists and others with the Marxists. Khomeini, who was in exile in Iraq, led a small faction that advocated the overthrow of the regime and the creation of a theocratic state. In late 1977, Khomeini's son Mostafa was found dead of unknown reasons; again the Shah security forces were blamed.

The various anti-establishment groups operated from outside Iran, mostly in London, Paris, Iraq, and Turkey. Speeches by the leaders of these groups were placed on audio cassettes to be smuggled into Iran. The speeches could then be listened to by the largely illiterate population.

from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_revolution_of_Iran

every group of the country, the students, the middle class, the communist, the clergy, everyone was against the shah, who was a puppet of the west and who let the west rob our country .
My family members were all secular minded people who opposed the shah because of things like this:


In early 1970s as the price of oil continued its upward climb many became increasingly angered by the regime's cronyism, internal corruption, and repressive nature. The internal decadence is well illustrated by the 2500th anniversary of the founding of the Persian Empire. During this three-day celebration of the founding of the Persian Empire in October, 1971. Held on the site of Persepolis, it is estimated that over $300 million was wasted on extravagances such as purchasing over a ton of caviar prepared by some of the two hundred chefs flown in from Paris, while many within Iran has insufficient food and shelter of their own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
(while he was incidentally out of the country)
.
he wasnt incidentally out of the country, he had to flee the country

I quote again : The majority of the population was loyal to Khomeini, and when he called for a complete end to the monarchy the Shah was forced to flee the country on January 16, 1979.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
England had nothing to do with it.
France merely let an exile live in paris which is hardly a crime
.
ah really , so the west who had already once staged a coup d`etat in iran


another quote : Pahlavi was returned to power in Iran after he had fled the country in 1953. This was achieved by overthrowing the democratically elected government of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh with the aid of a CIA covert operation, codenamed Operation Ajax.

just accidentaly happened to let the most important oppositional figure of iran live in paris. ohhh how nice of you.
and the same people who were robbing our country, would just sit by and watch how the 2 million iranian students , of whom the most were in the communist tudeh party, form the new independent iranian state.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
And all the USA did was then give sanctuary to the shah who would have been brutally murdered by Khomeini.
.
again a mistake from you. the usa did not give sanctuary to their former puppet:


I quote: The exiled monarch, with a history of repressive violence had become unpopular in much of the world and travelled from country to country seeking what he hoped in his second exile, would be merely a temporary residence. For a while he stayed in Panama, but his non-Hodgkins lymphoma began to grow worse, and required immediate and sophisticated treatment. Reluctantly, Jimmy Carter allowed the Shah to make a brief stopover in the United States, and undergo medical treatment. The compromise was extremely unpopular in Iran, where the new regime had now vilified the Shah as an American stooge. Khomeini demanded the former monarch's return to Iran to face trial and execution for his alleged misdeeds. Once the Shah's course of treatment had finished, the American government, eager to avoid further controversy pressed the former monarch to leave the country. He was welcomed by President Anwar Sadat of Egypt, and remained there until his death on July 27, 1980. He is interred at Al-Refai Mosque in Egypt.

He was merely aloud to do a brief medical treatment and then was kicked out of america. it would have been nice if he really had been returned to iran to face justice for his 34 years of brutal regime.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
during Khomeini's reign relations between iran and the west fell apart. We certainly did not install him.
again wrong, the west, in their extreme shortsided foreign policy, supported the islamic fraction of iran, to stop iran from becoming communist. Little did they know that Khomeini would turn his back on the west as soon as he would gain power. He killed and destroyed the entire opposition in 1980.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
your facts are simply wrong.
yeah right, just look how many facts you had wrong. in fact every single sentence was wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
PS Khomeini died in 1989. and since the it has been English diplomats who have started the long process of trying to get Iran to be more communicative.
thank you very much, english diplomats, very nice of you.


thanks for robbing our country for 34 years :


In 1951, Prime Minister Muhammad Mussadegh, a militant nationalist, forced the parliament to nationalize the British-owned oil industry, in a situation known as the Abadan Crisis. Despite British pressure, including a economic blockade which caused real hardship, the nationalization continued. Mussadegh was briefly forced from power in 1952 but quickly returned and forced the Shah to flee. It was assumed Mussadegh would declare a republic, but a few days later the Shah returned and again forced Mussadegh from office on August 19 with U.S. CIA support. Mussadegh was arrested and a new prime minister was appointed.

In return for the US support the Shah agreed, in 1954, to allow an international consortium of British (40%), American (40%), French (6%), and Dutch (14%) companies to run the Iranian oil facilities for the next 25 years, with profits shared equally. In other words, 0% of control or profits went to Iran.



then selling chemical and biological weapons to the enemy which was invading us :



In particular, the United States, along with its allies (among them Britain, France and Italy), provided Iraq with biological and chemical weapons and the precursors to nuclear capabilities (........)The war was characterized by extreme brutality, including the use of chemical weapons, especially tabun, by Iraq.


I have seen the victims of these chemical weapons in a tehran hospitals . It isnt a pretty sight , seeing people with their skins ripped off their body.

thank you very much, nice job. be proud of your history.


sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_revolution_of_Iran
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Last edited by Perle; 22 Jan 2005 at 02:01.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:15   #307
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
Do you think such a regime could survive without him if it didnt have the majority support of the Iranian people?

In the face of external forces trying to topple or weaken it?
yeah right, he had full support of the iranian people. thats why had had to kill hundred of thousands of them and thats why we have so many iranian refugees in the world





Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
It appears that now is the time for a young idealouge burning with outrage and a desire to mend his country to put his money where his mouth is and return to the motherland to heal her wounds and shape her future, so that all his people may remain free of imperial colonial capatilistic opression by the evuhl English pig dog scottish mercenary soldiers..

hey dude, im not stupid. you say things like that in iran, theyll throw you in prison, torture the hell out of you and hang you on the highest building.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:31   #308
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
Fine, change "claim" to imply. You imply that those 3 groups (sunnis, kurds, shiites) are incapable of peaceful coexistence whithin the same borders when you say they have "no bussiness of being in a country together." My question still stands. Why not? Imho, a hallmark of a civilized society is its ability to resolve differences peacefully in order to live together. My assumption is that they should be able to. You are the one implying they can not. Isn't that racist?
My question wasn't about anyone else, nor did I claim that the English were civilized. (and before any Brits jump on me, I'm not claiming they weren't. I am dubious about such judgements when looking at the past based on the values of today.) It was about the occupants of the region in question. Can they work together in a civil manner? If not, why not?
They have no business of being in a nation together, the reason is very simple. we have a kurdish minority which has been fighting for independece for centuries, a shite majority which has been fighting for their own country for centuries, and a suni minority whith the same agenda. to top all this, we have a turkemen minority which is suported by the turks. how the hell is a nation built up by these 4 ehnnic groups ever gonna be stable??????

but then again, this was exactly the calculation of the brutal british invaders.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
Wow, how long have you had this inferiority complex? I wasn't asking about English/European history. I prefaced my original post that I am ignorant of the local politics so I am inclined to believe that the Arabs within the region should be able to work together peacefully. However, you tell us that they have no business being in the same country. Since you claim to be Iranian, I am assuming that you are more familiar with that area of the world.
sorry to burst your bubbles. your little psychological theory has a little failure. I am not a kurd, i am not an arab, i am not a sunni, iam not shiitie, and I am not a turkemen.
so i cannot say these things because of an inferiority complex


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
If you decide to obtain German citizenship, does that make you and your progeny responsible for apologizing for Hitler?
if you take pride in german history, it make syou responsible for the crimes made by germans. and if you do that you will have to apologize for hitler. look at every single german chancellor they all apologize for the third reich. Willi brandt even kneeled in warsaw.
but then again, they have more decency than some other arrogant people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
Certainly people can acknowledge that past acts committed by their government and ancestors may be morally reprehensible and wrong when viewed though the lens of current knowledge.
oh really? i havent seen any acknowledgement in this thread. All i see is people like jammyjim making up excuses and silly arguments to defend the attrocities commited by their country

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Talon
However, an apology from them is pointless and would not be heartfelt. Can you be a proxy and apologize for the actions of someone else? Imho, it is a waste of time to carry the torch of victimization over such past transgressions. When will it be time to move forward and get on with life?
i dont even want an apology to be honest. just dont be proud of your damn history. How can you be proud of such a brutal history. Frankly, I cant understand it.

It will be time to move forward and get on with life when the british empire will stop invading other countries. But that doesnt seem to happen anytime soon, does it??? you are still in iraq. it seems like you cant get enough of messing the place up And if thats not enough, we are threatening the next country on the list (iran)
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:36   #309
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
why dont you read about the issue befoire posting??
I am an iranian, I should know about the revoltuion. My entire family was in it
almost every sentence you said about the revolution is wrong.
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DuelingCredentials


Quote:
the iranian revolution was not by the shitite extremist. what a ridicilous assumption.

I quote: This early opposition was lead by Mehdi Bazargan and his Freedom Movement of Iran. It was a liberal secularist group that was closely linked to Massadegh's movement of the 1950s. This group saw significant support in Iran and abroad in the West.

More radical was Ali Shari'ati who combined Marxism and Shia orthodoxy in a revolutionary movement inspired by the Cuban and Algerian revolutions. His alleged murder in London in 1977, which was blamed on SAVAK agents, greatly inflamed tensions.

The Ulema were divided, some allying with the liberal secularists and others with the Marxists. Khomeini, who was in exile in Iraq, led a small faction that advocated the overthrow of the regime and the creation of a theocratic state. In late 1977, Khomeini's son Mostafa was found dead of unknown reasons; again the Shah security forces were blamed.

The various anti-establishment groups operated from outside Iran, mostly in London, Paris, Iraq, and Turkey. Speeches by the leaders of these groups were placed on audio cassettes to be smuggled into Iran. The speeches could then be listened to by the largely illiterate population.

from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_revolution_of_Iran
And I quote from the section below the one you quoted
Quote:
During the period up to 1978, the opposition to the Shah mostly came from the urban middle class, a section of the population that was fairly secular and would support a constitutional monarchy. It was the Islamic groups that first managed to rally the great mass of the population against the Shah.

In January of 1978 the official press ran a libelous story attacking Khomeini. Angry students and religious leaders protested against the allegations in the city of Qom. The army was sent in dispersing the demonstrations and killing several students.
While obviously others (nearly everyone as you say) were involved it's pretty clear that without the fundamentalist Islamic groups rallying the vast majority of the population not that much would have been achieved in such a short space of time.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:37   #310
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I find it difficult to take that site seriously.

I laughed especially hard at


Yeah guys, highly competitive
yes, those are the people from the shah regime. Most of them fled the country after khomeini came to power and took alot of money and went to america. They want america to invade iran, so they can their old jobs back.
very very stupid people. they want the son shah to become the new monarch.Like his father didnt do enough damage to our country.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:39   #311
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DuelingCredentials




And I quote from the section below the one you quoted


While obviously others (nearly everyone as you say) were involved it's pretty clear that without the fundamentalist Islamic groups rallying the vast majority of the population not that much would have been achieved in such a short space of time.

aha so yahwe who said this : Khomeni had been exiled to paris by the shah. after his supporters the shite islamic extremists overthrew the shah. ...... the successful fundamentalist islamic rebels
was right and I was wrong???

waoo very interesting.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:43   #312
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Well khomeini was originally exiled to Turkey, followed by Iraq and then finally Paris, so it's not strictly true to say that he was exiled to Paris by the Shah.

The rest of yahwe's sentence doesn't make linguistic sense due to the fact you've blanked out part of it.

I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic or not in your post. Are you?
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:46   #313
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well khomeini was originally exiled to Turkey, followed by Iraq and then finally Paris, so it's not strictly true to say that he was exiled to Paris by the Shah.

The rest of yahwe's sentence doesn't make linguistic sense due to the fact you've blanked out part of it.

I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic or not in your post. Are you?

okok Ill quote him again:


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Khomeni had been exiled to paris by the shah. after his supporters the shite islamic extremists overthrew the shah (while he was incidentally out of the country) he flew back to be proclaimed iman by the successful fundamentalist islamic rebels
so is he right or is he wrong??
was the shah overthrown by shiite extremists???
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:55   #314
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Re: so, the english are raping again

He's partially correct. The primary catalyst responsible for the overthrow of the shah were islamic fundamentalists. I assume this was what he meant as to claim that a single particular group is the only group responsible for the overthrow of a government is a ridiculous claim. Both of you seemed to grasp different parts of the elephant, he said that islamic fundamentalists overthrew the shah, you said that far more groups than just islamic fundamentalists were involved in overthrowing the shah, and it is more accurate to say that many groups were involved in the overthrow of the shah and the group which managed to bring the greatest pressure to bear were the islamic fundamentalists.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 02:59   #315
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

I was under the impression that the Liberals, Socialists, etc were largely a spent and discredited force, pretty much since after Mossadeq.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 03:15   #316
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I was under the impression that the Liberals, Socialists, etc were largely a spent and discredited force, pretty much since after Mossadeq.
no, thats not really true. They were very active and organized many of them even believed that khomeini who had the wide support of the non-urban populace, would keep his promises and form a democratic Iran under an islamic banner. Unfortunately, khomeini used their trust and built a very strong milita, which controlled every neighbourhood. Before the other groups knew what was happening, khomeini issued an order banning any communistic and other non-believer groups. in less than 30 days, 100000 people were rounded up and executed. a massive exodus started and anyone who could, fled the country.Khomeini virtually banned all groups except his own hizbolah.
after iraq invaded, there was no more opposition possible. under the threat of an iraqee victory, all iranians gathered under the banner of khomeini and fought. many iranians even suggest that khomeini purposely kept the war going on after 1982, to keep the country opposition-free. In 1988, with the peace with Iraq, another round of opposition killing started. this time, 30000 iranians were killed.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 03:39   #317
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
why dont you read about the issue befoire posting??
I am an iranian, I should know about the revoltuion. My entire family was in it
almost every sentence you said about the revolution is wrong.
as an 'Iranian' perhaps you should know about the invasion.

i am not going to blame you for the fact that you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
the iranian revolution was not by the shitite extremist. what a ridicilous assumption.
quite ridiculous yes ... the revolution brought about by islamic extreemists desiring to create an islamic state... yes ridiculous. i don't know wher i got it from, perhaps i was misled by the fact that a fundamentalist islamic government has existed in Iran since the revolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
every group of the country, the students, the middle class, the communist, the clergy, everyone was against the shah, who was a puppet of the west and who let the west rob our country .
My family members were all secular minded people who opposed the shah because of things like this:
not everyone was against the shah. particularly not the middle classes.
I know good Persian (oh yes that appears to be a word you don't know) families who supported the shah.

the shah was implementing reform when the revolution came. it was a vicious and fundamentalist revolution and it has set Persia back by 26 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
he wasnt incidentally out of the country, he had to flee the country
he was incidentally out of the country.

if your english is not that good, please pm me and i will explain the words i use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
I quote again : The majority of the population was loyal to Khomeini, and when he called for a complete end to the monarchy the Shah was forced to flee the country on January 16, 1979.
so explain why you stated that khomeni was put in place by america, france and england?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
just accidentaly happened to let the most important oppositional figure of iran live in paris. ohhh how nice of you.
How dare you.
you and your family live in exile in germany. you blame france for allowing others to live in exile?
would you wish germany to send you back to iran?

you began critiscising england. i can only defend england. however if khomeni had asked for sanctuary in london, it may have been granted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
He was merely aloud to do a brief medical treatment and then was kicked out of america. it would have been nice if he really had been returned to iran to face justice for his 34 years of brutal regime.
he was kicked out because of the militant actions of the new iranian government particularly the attack and hostage tacking at the US embassy in tehran on 4th november 1979

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
again wrong, the west, in their extreme shortsided foreign policy, supported the islamic fraction of iran, to stop iran from becoming communist. Little did they know that Khomeini would turn his back on the west as soon as he would gain power. He killed and destroyed the entire opposition in 1980.
you are confused.

at one point you say the west supported the shah, at another you say the west supported the islamic rebels.

both can not be true. indeed both are not true. the west supported the shah throughout

and if you wish to know the truth the english foreign office KNEW what khomeni's fundamentalism would mean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
thank you very much, english diplomats, very nice of you.
yes it is kind of us.
english diplomacy and english effort may yet protect iran from US invasion.

even if we fail, no thanks to the likes of you, we have tried to preserve persian lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
thanks for robbing our country for 34 years :
its called trade you fool. perhaps you would prefer the oil back? you can not eat oil you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
In 1951, Prime Minister Muhammad Mussadegh, a militant nationalist, forced the parliament to nationalize the British-owned oil industry, in a situation known as the Abadan Crisis. Despite British pressure, including a economic blockade which caused real hardship, the nationalization continued. Mussadegh was briefly forced from power in 1952 but quickly returned and forced the Shah to flee. It was assumed Mussadegh would declare a republic, but a few days later the Shah returned and again forced Mussadegh from office on August 19 with U.S. CIA support. Mussadegh was arrested and a new prime minister was appointed.


this is an example of how the west supported the shah.

i told you the west supported the shah.

it was you who said the west supported the islamic revolutionaries of whom Mussadegh was one.

do you understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
In return for the US support the Shah agreed, in 1954, to allow an international consortium of British (40%), American (40%), French (6%), and Dutch (14%) companies to run the Iranian oil facilities for the next 25 years, with profits shared equally. In other words, 0% of control or profits went to Iran.
the shah understood the need for Persia to westernise.
It still needs to.
time is running out and the US is losing patience.

yet none of this is Englands fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
In particular, the United States, along with its allies (among them Britain, France and Italy), provided Iraq with biological and chemical weapons and the precursors to nuclear capabilities (........)The war was characterized by extreme brutality, including the use of chemical weapons, especially tabun, by Iraq.
well france for a start didn't.

you can not blame the shop that sells the weapon. you can only blame the people who use them.

we sold weapons to both sides. we supported neither. we were just a shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
thank you very much, nice job. be proud of your history.
i quite rightly am.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 05:02   #318
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
no, thats not really true. They were very active and organized many of them even believed that khomeini who had the wide support of the non-urban populace, would keep his promises and form a democratic Iran under an islamic banner
a) the liberals supported the shah
b) the shah was trying to initiate liberal reforms
c) no liberal believed khomeni
d) no liberal wanted persia to be under an 'islamic banner'
e) the government founded by the revolution under an islamic banner was so oppressive that it forced many liberals to flee.
f) the non urban populace were pro islamic fundamentalist.
g) the non urban population was never liberal.


h) god protect 'iran' when the americans invade.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 06:48   #319
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
as an 'Iranian' perhaps you should know about the invasion.

i am not going to blame you for the fact that you don't.
THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE AN INVASION: THE AMERICAN EMPIRE HAS ENOUGH ON ITS HAND WITH THE FIASCO THEY CREATED IN IRAQ-



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
quite ridiculous yes ... the revolution brought about by islamic extreemists desiring to create an islamic state... yes ridiculous. i don't know wher i got it from, perhaps i was misled by the fact that a fundamentalist islamic government has existed in Iran since the revolution.
you are really starting to anger me. are youz calling the millions of people including my parents and relatives, who marched the streets of iran and were gun downed by the shahs military shiite extremist??? didnt i post the source and showed you that the revolution was carried out by the vast majority of the iranians??

[quote=Yahwe]
not everyone was against the shah. particularly not the middle classes.
I know good Persian (oh yes that appears to be a word you don't know) families who supported the shah.
/QUOTE]
ahh so it was just the extremist very nice argument


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
the shah was implementing reform when the revolution came. it was a vicious and fundamentalist revolution and it has set Persia back by 26 years.

it was not a vicious revolution. it was a great revolution of the people of iran standing up for the second time to a puppet dictator who was selling out his own people to foreign powers. the fact that the west again ruined it for us doesnt take away the merrits of that revolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
he was incidentally out of the country.

if your english is not that good, please pm me and i will explain the words i use.
no , you are using a euphimism here. making it look like the guy was ion a vacation or something. he had to leave the country, i can post you the video of him at the airport. the coldhearted bastard was almost crying. it was one of the best moments in iranian history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
so explain why you stated that khomeni was put in place by america, france and england?

very easily, do you really think that a clerg like khomeini could have established a militia network in iran after his arrival and stage the killing he did in the 1980?? who do you think funded and organized that???? the west saw that they couldnt bring their puppet back like they did in 53.. the mere mention of the shahs name drove millions of people to the streets protesting. so they had to make sure khomeini would become the dictator. this isnt the first time they supportedf a dictator. look at how messed up latin america is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
How dare you.
you and your family live in exile in germany. you blame france for allowing others to live in exile?
would you wish germany to send you back to iran?
looool this one is really funny
wait didnt someone post something about this??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
According to Alexandre de Marenches (then head of the French secret services), France suggested to the Shah that they could "arrange for Khomeini to have a lethal accident"; the Shah declined the assassination offer, arguing that this would make him a martyr.

oooops, looks like someone made a complete arse out of themselves.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you began critiscising england. i can only defend england. however if khomeni had asked for sanctuary in london, it may have been granted.
yeah defend it all you want



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
he was kicked out because of the militant actions of the new iranian government particularly the attack and hostage tacking at the US embassy in tehran on 4th november 1979
what does it matter why?? you said america gave him shelter, i corrected you on it. why you bringing on the cause of why they didnt give him sheltert?? your statement was wrong period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you are confused.

at one point you say the west supported the shah, at another you say the west supported the islamic rebels.
your the one who is confused. they supported the shah untill the point that it made no more sense. after that they said, hey lets support the islamist to stop the communist(cause thats what you do if you wanna mess up other countries)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
both can not be true. indeed both are not true. the west supported the shah throughout

and if you wish to know the truth the english foreign office KNEW what khomeni's fundamentalism would mean
both are true,. the islamist were supported AFTER the revolution when reza pahlavi had no more chances of regaining his crown


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
yes it is kind of us.
english diplomacy and english effort may yet protect iran from US invasion.


even if we fail, no thanks to the likes of you, we have tried to preserve persian lives.

for the love of god, please dont try to help us. I have seen how british diplomacy has helped out iraq. with the secret service report of how saddam could attack the entire world with WMD in 45 minutes.
please keep your diplomats away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
its called trade you fool. perhaps you would prefer the oil back? you can not eat oil you know.
when you go in a country with a big gun, take thenatural ressources, give the inhabitants little or nothing out of the profit, it is called armed robery and not trade. the same thing you did with iraq, india , china, zimbabe, and so on and so on




Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
it was you who said the west supported the islamic revolutionaries of whom Mussadegh was one.
mussadegh was not a islamic revolution, he was the prime minister who wanted democracy and nationalization of our oil. he kicked ou reza pahlavi because he was giving it for almost free to the west.
the west only supported the islamist AFTER 1979 . before that, they fully supported their puppet reza pahlavi






Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe

you can not blame the shop that sells the weapon. you can only blame the people who use them.

we sold weapons to both sides. we supported neither. we were just a shop.



.

oh really```??? so tell me , if russia or china would deliver iran, north korea and saudi arabia with nuclear warheads and intercontinental missiles, would you blame russia and china??
or would you say : hey you cant blame the shop for selling weapons!!!!!!!

is there no argument too cheap for you to defend england???
is there no point where you say : hey this is just too low, i wont say that?????
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 06:57   #320
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
a) the liberals supported the shah
b) the shah was trying to initiate liberal reforms
c) no liberal believed khomeni
d) no liberal wanted persia to be under an 'islamic banner'
e) the government founded by the revolution under an islamic banner was so oppressive that it forced many liberals to flee.
f) the non urban populace were pro islamic fundamentalist.
g) the non urban population was never liberal.


h) god protect 'iran' when the americans invade.
this is exile-iranian pro shah nonsense. Khomeini was the symbol of the revolution. noone knew before his violent coup détat in 1980 what his true face was. he was promising the iranian democracy and freedom from france. alot of iranian , islamic, liberal, secular you name it believed him. the non-urban in iran were just analphabetical peasonts and were most certainly not islamic fundementalists. they were simple people working on their fields.
the revoultion was widely supported by the middleclass and the students and the merchants.
the fleeing begun after khomeini showed his true face a couple of months after the revolution.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 17:39   #321
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Re: so, the english are raping again

So essentially its our fault that your people are so thick that they topple one tyrant simply to elevate another?


You seem to be arguing that every event in iran is our fault, you claim that Kohmeni had no popular support yet you argue that he had the massed support of the non-urban population,various islamic groups and various student bodies.

You claim that kohmeni was given shelter and aid by the west , whilst using the fact that France wanted to kill him as proof that we supported the shah..

Your country was weak and divided, your people were poor and ill educated, now your country is strong and (fairly) united, your people are now rich(er) and well(ish) educated and still you moan that its not fair, its not right, why couldn't you just leave us alone to scratch our arses in the dust and oppress our women.


You sicken me on so many levels, I hope germany decides that it is time for you to return home.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 17:55   #322
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

It takes a certain degree of genius mingled with incompetence to be able to be so unpopular that people actually begin to unite behind Yahwe.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 18:16   #323
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
It takes a certain degree of genius mingled with incompetence to be able to be so unpopular that people actually begin to unite behind Yahwe.

I am so touched. the genius nija-spammer is supporting the man who has the historical knowledge-of- a-6-year-old-yahwe and both out of the motive of national pride. fantasticd, i guess I should quit very fast. these too are just too much for me!!!

the truth is always unpopular. Why do you think the english are so obsessed with WW2?? its the only time in history that they are not the bad guys in a war.
ignoring the brutal past is much easier than to face it.
Look at jammyjim, he didnt even know that the nation of iraq was created by the empire, and was robbed by it for 39 years.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 18:21   #324
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Don't be simple, wars don't break down into good and evil like that. As for the truth being unpopular, that may well be so on occasions but it should be noted that idiocy is also unpopular.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 18:27   #325
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
So essentially its our fault that your people are so thick that they topple one tyrant simply to elevate another?
no, its your fault that whenever our people were able to get rid of a dictator, your governemnt came meddling and helped another dictator gain power.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
You seem to be arguing that every event in iran is our fault, you claim that Kohmeni had no popular support yet you argue that he had the massed support of the non-urban population,various islamic groups and various student bodies.
I never claimed khomeini had no popular support. what are you saying??? khomeini was the symbol of the iranian revolution. I corrected yahwe because he was implying that the revolution was carried out by shiite extremists. An insult to the millions of people who were killed and tortured under the shahs brutal rule.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
You claim that kohmeni was given shelter and aid by the west , whilst using the fact that France wanted to kill him as proof that we supported the shah..
nono, yahwe said I should be thankfull that france was generously giving shelter to khomeini. I showed him how ridicilous his statement was. they wanted to kill him. great shelter.

Khomeini was a compromise solution for the west. They preferred an islamic dictatorship instead of a possible communistical Iran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
Your country was weak and divided, your people were poor and ill educated,
my country was not weak and divided. Iran was united in the desire to throw out the dictator shah. we did it 2 times in 25 years. my people were poor an dill educated because the puppet dictator installed by the west after ww2 was letting the west rob out our country and take all our money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
now your country is strong and (fairly) united, your people are now rich(er) and well(ish) educated
waaao, so your supporting the mullahs in iran?? in your opinion they have been good for iran yes??#
after alll we are strong and united right???? and yes richer too

wao didnt think you were a mullah lover. explains alot though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer
and still you moan that its not fair, its not right, why couldn't you just leave us alone to scratch our arses in the dust and oppress our women.
You sicken me on so many levels, I hope germany decides that it is time for you to return home.
your arrogance is so sickening. going around, invading countries, robbing them , screwing whole countries up and then say : hey it wasnt our problem, go oppress your women.
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 19:51   #326
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you can not blame the shop that sells the weapon. you can only blame the people who use them.
?!??! that thinking is a little twisted.. you always fight the cause and control the effect..
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 20:42   #327
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Who the **** is Bez?

And I meant in the context of these forums.


PS What a surprise though, horrible generalisations lack accuracy!
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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 21:07   #328
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Unread 22 Jan 2005, 23:47   #329
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
?!??! that thinking is a little twisted.. you always fight the cause and control the effect..
didn't you say you voted for bush?
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 08:58   #330
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
didn't you say you voted for bush?
thats a cause i couldnt fight because i couldnt change a collective decision of myself and of a nation, and also an effect that i couldnt control because i am a follower of society's demands governed by laws implemented to all and are enforced by the likes of bush..

everything else that apply, i hold onto this belief
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 11:37   #331
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Don't be simple, wars don't break down into good and evil like that. As for the truth being unpopular, that may well be so on occasions but it should be noted that idiocy is also unpopular.

ususally, the invadersx are the bad guys. and who is better at invading than the englsh??

here the long bloody list of english(and the later british) wars:

# Third Crusade (1189)
# Welsh Uprising of 1211
# Battle of Bouvines (1214) - loss of Normandy
# First Barons' War (1215–1217)
# Second Barons' War (1264–1267)
# Welsh Uprising of 1282
# Wars of Scottish Independence (1296–1333)
# Hundred Years' War (1337 to 1453)

* Battle of Agincourt (1415)



# Italian Wars (1494 – 1559)
# Loss of Calais (1558) - then England's last continental possession
# Eighty Years' War (1598–1648)

* Spanish Armada (1588)

# Wars of the Three Kingdoms (1639–1651)

* Bishops' Wars (1639–1640)
* English Civil War (1642–1651)

# First Anglo-Dutch War (1652–1654)
# Anglo-Spanish War (1654–1660)
# Second Anglo-Dutch War (1665–1667)
# War of Devolution (1667–1668)
# Third Anglo-Dutch War (1672–1674)
# King Philip's War (1675–1676)
# War of the Grand Alliance (or King William's War) (1688–1697)


# Battle of the Boyne (1690) - last battle between two rival claimants for the throne
# War of the Spanish Succession (1702–1713)

* Queen Anne's War (1702–1713)

# War of Jenkins' Ear (1739–1742)
# War of the Austrian Succession (1740–1748)
# Seven Years' War (1756–1763) - the first "world war"
# Fourth Anglo-Dutch War (1780–1784)
# American War of Independence (1775 to 1783)
# Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815)

* Battle of Trafalgar (1805)
* Peninsular War (1808–1814)

# British-American War (1812)
# Anglo-Gurkha War (1814-1816)
# Peterloo massacre (1819)
# First Anglo-Afghan War (1839–1842)
# First Opium War (1839–1842)
# Crimean War (1854–1856)

* Charge of the Light Brigade

# Second Opium War (or The Arrow War) (1856–1860)
# Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878-1880)
# Anglo-Zulu War (1879)
# Boer War ( 1880–1881 and 1899–1902)

* Siege of Mafeking (1899–1900)

# Anglo-Irish War (1919–1921)
# Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)
# Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923)
# World War I (1914–1918)
# The Pacific War (1937-1945)
# World War II (1939–1945)

# Cold War (1945–1991)
# Malayan Emergency (1948–1960)
# Korean War (1950–1953)
# Mau Mau Uprising (1952–1960)
# Cyprus Emergency (1955–1959)
# Suez Crisis (1956)
# Brunei Uprising (1962)
# Konfrontasi (1962–1966)
# Aden Emergency (1963–1967)
# Icelandic Cod War (1975–1976)
# Falklands War (1982)
# Gulf War (1990–1991)
# Bosnian War (IFOR) (1995–1996)
# Kosovo War (1999)
# Sierra Leone Civil War (2000)
# 2001 Afghanistan War (2001–2002)
# 2003 invasion of Iraq (2003))

it seems like no country/poeple in the world, no matter how far away, was safe from invaion/war by the englsih aggressors.
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Last edited by Perle; 23 Jan 2005 at 11:52.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 11:49   #332
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
* Spanish Armada (1588)
* English Civil War (1642–1651)
# Peterloo massacre (1819)
* Charge of the Light Brigade
# World War I (1914–1918)
# World War II (1939–1945)
# Cold War (1945–1991)
# Falklands War (1982)
# Gulf War (1990–1991)
My extremely limited knowledge of History tells me that none of these were examples of Britain invading anywhere.... and if you're not claiming that, then why post the list?
And Peterloo wasn't even a battle, or if you consider it such then you missed out Brixton and Notting Hill...
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 11:51   #333
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Did you actually read that list before pasting it in? I mean, you'd have to be more than slightly stupid to think that the Spanish Armada or the World Wars were an example of English aggression. You've even included several civil wars, which is even more idiotic.
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 12:10   #334
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Did you actually read that list before pasting it in? I mean, you'd have to be more than slightly stupid to think that the Spanish Armada or the World Wars were an example of English aggression. You've even included several civil wars, which is even more idiotic.
Reading his posts on here you didn't really expect anything else from him did you?
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 12:50   #335
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Re: so, the english are raping again

The list of wars is by far the best so far. I truly cannot believe how your 'clutching' at straws. I mean before at least you were vaguely subtle about the whole 'lack of knowledge' thing but that just takes the cake.

LOOK LOOK HERES A GIANT LIST OF EVERY WAR I COULD FIND THAT BRITAIN HAS EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN!!!!!2123123123

including such douzeys as 'the cold war' oh and 'the gulf war' among various others.

oh my good god your right. we slaughtered MILLIONS in the Cold War....absolutely millions of foreign folk died and trembled at the knees as our mighty british war machine ran their nations into the ground.....



you really are a complete pillock. i wish i was back at uni so i had some 'textbooks' around me in which i could post some rather nice quotes but im not. :-(((


however...well played pearle. youve sunk to depths i didnt think possible (presuming this hasnt been a hugely massive windup)
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:11   #336
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Oshi guys, we were the aggressors in the War of 1812 and the Napoleonic wars.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:22   #337
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

He even managed to include the Peterloo massacre, which was British (English) people murdering other British (English) people.

LOOK ENGLISH ARE SO EVIL THEY EVEN KILL THEMSELVES! THEY CrAZy!
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:41   #338
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He even managed to include the Peterloo massacre, which was British (English) people murdering other British (English) people.

LOOK ENGLISH ARE SO EVIL THEY EVEN KILL THEMSELVES! THEY CrAZy!
Don't forget the mystery as to why The Charge of the Light Brigade is included, as they just got slaughtered.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:42   #339
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perle
# Icelandic Cod War (1975–1976)

it seems like no country/poeple in the world, no matter how far away, was safe from invaion/war by the englsih aggressors.
I'm laughing too hard to breathe
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:47   #340
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Re: so, the english are raping again

which idiot included the cod wars in wiki anyway?
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:49   #341
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Did you actually read that list before pasting it in? I mean, you'd have to be more than slightly stupid to think that the Spanish Armada or the World Wars were an example of English aggression. You've even included several civil wars, which is even more idiotic.
He's also included some wars where Britain was a peacekeeping force.

# Bosnian War (IFOR) (1995?1996)
# Kosovo War (1999)
# Sierra Leone Civil War (2000)
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 13:50   #342
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
I'm laughing too hard to breathe
'And thus, Harold of the Labourites spake thusly: "Let us create a great Northern Empire, to include Iceland, Greenland, and all those territories which truely belong to the people of the New Jerusalem, and let us do this in the name of the lord."'
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 14:10   #343
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
which idiot included the cod wars in wiki anyway?
They were a proud and glorious moment in our island story.

I particularly like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Iceland deployed a total of six Coast Guard vessels and two Polish-built stern trawlers which had been converted into Coast Guard vessels to enforce Icelandic control over fishing rights. In response, the United Kingdom deployed a total of twenty-two frigates, seven supply ships, nine tug-boats, and three support ships to protect its fishing trawlers.
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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 14:12   #344
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Oh my, I guess this proves that Wiki is in fact *not* the ultimate argument winning source as once thought

At least not if you dont read the ****ing article.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 14:15   #345
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Exclamation Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
He's also included some wars where Britain was a peacekeeping force.

# Bosnian War (IFOR) (1995?1996)
Unfortunately, that was also a cover for imperialist expansion.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 14:19   #346
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Actually British / NATO intervention in the former Yugoslavia has been nothing short of shameful.

Although that's not really relevent since German involvement in particular (who this fellow appears to approve of) was even worse in some regards.
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 14:54   #347
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus

and we still lost
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 14:59   #348
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by SYMM
My extremely limited knowledge of History tells me that none of these were examples of Britain invading anywhere.... and if you're not claiming that, then why post the list?
And Peterloo wasn't even a battle, or if you consider it such then you missed out Brixton and Notting Hill...

thats why i said agression/war and invading/war and not just invasion
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 15:03   #349
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Re: so, the english are raping again

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Originally Posted by JammyJim
The list of wars is by far the best so far. I truly cannot believe how your 'clutching' at straws. I mean before at least you were vaguely subtle about the whole 'lack of knowledge' thing but that just takes the cake.

LOOK LOOK HERES A GIANT LIST OF EVERY WAR I COULD FIND THAT BRITAIN HAS EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN!!!!!2123123123

including such douzeys as 'the cold war' oh and 'the gulf war' among various others.

oh my good god your right. we slaughtered MILLIONS in the Cold War....absolutely millions of foreign folk died and trembled at the knees as our mighty british war machine ran their nations into the ground.....



you really are a complete pillock. i wish i was back at uni so i had some 'textbooks' around me in which i could post some rather nice quotes but im not. :-(((


however...well played pearle. youve sunk to depths i didnt think possible (presuming this hasnt been a hugely massive windup)


ahhh look at this, the godfather has crawlen up from the hole he was hiding in after being totally beaten in his iraq-creation-denying-fiasco, for a glorious comeback.

welcome back.

would you care to post me one country/people, which have even half of the list of wars the english people have????
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Unread 23 Jan 2005, 15:06   #350
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Re: so, the english are raping again

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
He's also included some wars where Britain was a peacekeeping force.

# Bosnian War (IFOR) (1995?1996)
# Kosovo War (1999)
# Sierra Leone Civil War (2000)
ah really??? so britain was peacekeeping when they were bombimg belgrad and serbia in 1999. waooooooo!!! fantastic this is really great.
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