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Unread 27 Feb 2007, 23:11   #1
Fyodor
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Round end date is 16th of March

Is it me or is the shortest round of PA ever?

Seems like with this announcement, there is a little over 2 weeks left in the round giving us a grand total of a 54 day 1296 (tick round). (not including downtime)

Including downtime, what does that leave us? A 1200 tick round?
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Unread 27 Feb 2007, 23:26   #2
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

I did think that was sort of odd... glad it isn't just me.
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Unread 27 Feb 2007, 23:45   #3
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

A while back on this forum there was a discussion about how long rounds should be. Based on that we decided to try out 7 week rounds. The "plan" is to try to have 5 7 week rounds in a year with very short downtime between rounds (approx 3 weeks). If people feel that r21 should go back to being 8 weeks (or even longer) now is a good time to discuss this as it will affect the financial planning for the rest of the year.
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Unread 27 Feb 2007, 23:56   #4
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

I do think 7 weeks is to short especially when you factor in any server down time during the course of the round. Especially when prices for the game didnt drop. (I used a credit from a few rounds back so I could e wrong here) Either way i dont think 7 weeks is viable when there hasnt been any modification to research/construction times and price of the game.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 00:51   #5
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
Is it me or is the shortest round of PA ever?
No, the prices have not dropped.
Yes, the rounds are getting shorter and shorter.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 03:37   #6
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Personally I would prefer the end date set at some point during the round rather than before it. Some rounds stagnate fast while others remain interesting. Without time the politics of the round cannot be let run to their completion - Wars should be able to last for longer than 5-10 days.

Today 9 out of the top 10 alliances changed position. This surely shows that there is more than 2 weeks legs left in the round. I know this idea would knacker the financial planing but this is the best way from the players perspective.

If you are having 7 week rounds you can't have 3 week gaps between them. That is nearly half a round and simply too long. At most the turnaround should be 2 weeks. 1 week for final testing and 1 for sign ups.

Even if the quanity of game is reducing I don't think the price needs to drop. It seems cheap enough right now as it is. Reduction would not increase numbers playing the game in my opinion.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 08:58   #7
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
No, the prices have not dropped.
Yes, the rounds are getting shorter and shorter.
I'm not sure, but i think the round are not getting 'shorter and shorter'. I was under the impression the last number of round were almost all ending at abou the same tick.

But i agree with most sentiments, that 7 week is a bit short.

About between round downtime: if not much coding is needed, then i think a day or 3 havoc should suffice, then 4 days of downtime/testing/instaling new code, and then signups could start again. In the signup week, more testing could take place. This would be a 2 week time.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 09:01   #8
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

round ends the day of my 22nd Birthday best present i ever could get
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 11:03   #9
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

I'll be sure to attack you just before then mate

I like the idea of seeing how the round is going then you can change the end date around that. For example I can't wait till this round ends because not a great deal happened while if a lot was happening then perhaps you could extend the round, if it's viable ofc.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 11:18   #10
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

It's good that this round will be over then, haven't seen such a boring pile of shit since round 10.5.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 11:30   #11
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rc mayhem
Today 9 out of the top 10 alliances changed position. This surely shows that there is more than 2 weeks legs left in the round. I know this idea would knacker the financial planing but this is the best way from the players perspective.
Please... the change in position was mostly thanks to Omen dropping a few members, this doesn't show anything about how 'active' the game is. I for one will probably be glad the round is over soon since nothing particularly interesting is happening. Extending the round end (with current politics) only means there will be another week of doing exciting galraids left.

Quote:
About between round downtime: if not much coding is needed, then i think a day or 3 havoc should suffice, then 4 days of downtime/testing/instaling new code, and then signups could start again. In the signup week, more testing could take place. This would be a 2 week time.
Tbh (shoot me for being negative if you so wish, but it has to be said), i do not think PaTeam is capable of setting up a decent development process. From what i can tell, they start way to late actually working/thinking in detail about the changes for the upcoming round(s) leaving very little time to actually code and (most importantly) test new features/changes. The start of a new round doesn't mean developers can take a break for a week or 4, about 1 or 2 weeks before the end of a round (approx) the features for a new round should have been completed and ready to be tested by a active group of ppl who know what to look for (loopholes etc). Currently it almost looks like they starting to code 1 or 2 weeks before the end of the round, then be ready like 3 weeks before the new round starts which leaves extremely little time to find and react on serious flawes in the code. It also eliminates any chance of getting exciting radical chances for a new round, and frankly means a way to slow improvement process on the game.

I know this can not be entirely blamed on PaTeam as i think you do need a paid coder (or atleast one that is willing to work a full work week) to work on the game, which Jolt doesn't appear to be willing to provide. But even without it reckon far to much time is being wasted on discussing what to implement and how exactly rather than just start making it and add more details (exact formulea etc) during the implementation process.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 13:53   #12
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

It is (for me) ok that the round ends soon, as I find it rather dull.
Next round im not even going to build ships or get more then 50-100 roids, cause i cba to get roids as it is to timeconsuming
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 15:15   #13
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

~1200ticks isnt enough in my eyes...

if you wanna play more games, reduce the res/con ticks!
you build con in 12ticks (if you have other engineering prioritys) then you cant get a total of 150 con!!

150 * 12 = 1800ticks
150 * 11 = 1650ticks
150 * 10 = 1500ticks
150 * 9 = 1350ticks
150 * 8 = 1200ticks
150 * 7 = 1050ticks
150 * 6 = 900ticks
150 * 5 = 750ticks
150 * 4 = 600ticks

and dont forget that not every on can build every 4./5./6.tick...

regards PWG
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 15:25   #14
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWG
~1200ticks isnt enough in my eyes...

if you wanna play more games, reduce the res/con ticks!
you build con in 12ticks (if you have other engineering prioritys) then you cant get a total of 150 con!!
i like this actually, infact i'd also love to have a far larger techree that is impossible to (even come close to) complete in a round. Why? Because it would force players to make choices again resulting in (very) different planets per race, which potentially is a FAR more interesting game than what we have now where everyone ends up having the same stuff anyway.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 18:20   #15
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rc mayhem
If you are having 7 week rounds you can't have 3 week gaps between them. That is nearly half a round and simply too long. At most the turnaround should be 2 weeks. 1 week for final testing and 1 for sign ups.
3 week gap = 1 week havoc, 2 week signups.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 18:21   #16
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
No, the prices have not dropped.
Yes, the rounds are getting shorter and shorter.
The prices have dropped in real terms as they have stayed static for many years and not increased as a result of inflation. Thus jolt's effective income from a credit has dropped considerably over time.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 18:25   #17
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
The prices have dropped in real terms as they have stayed static for many years and not increased as a result of inflation. Thus jolt's effective income from a credit has dropped considerably over time.
Inflation is like ~ 2% each year. so £10.00 in 2003 is equivalent to £10.79 today.
edit : actual inflation figures :
2006 2.30%
2005 2.10%
2004 1.30%
2003 1.40%

http://www.whatsthecost.com/cpi.aspx

I wouldnt personally call that considerable
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 18:26   #18
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
Tbh (shoot me for being negative if you so wish, but it has to be said), i do not think PaTeam is capable of setting up a decent development process. From what i can tell, they start way to late actually working/thinking in detail about the changes for the upcoming round(s) leaving very little time to actually code and (most importantly) test new features/changes. The start of a new round doesn't mean developers can take a break for a week or 4, about 1 or 2 weeks before the end of a round (approx) the features for a new round should have been completed and ready to be tested by a active group of ppl who know what to look for (loopholes etc). Currently it almost looks like they starting to code 1 or 2 weeks before the end of the round, then be ready like 3 weeks before the new round starts which leaves extremely little time to find and react on serious flawes in the code. It also eliminates any chance of getting exciting radical chances for a new round, and frankly means a way to slow improvement process on the game.

I know this can not be entirely blamed on PaTeam as i think you do need a paid coder (or atleast one that is willing to work a full work week) to work on the game, which Jolt doesn't appear to be willing to provide. But even without it reckon far to much time is being wasted on discussing what to implement and how exactly rather than just start making it and add more details (exact formulea etc) during the implementation process.
Round 21 is now what I would term "feature complete", the code still needs various bits of testing and tweaking, but the features are now all there.

Things that still need doing:
ticker fix to avoid issues with interupted ticks we had this round - at most 1 hours work including testing.
various skin fixes to encompass R21 fixes - again not much work
full testing of new features.

We currently have more time before next rounds tick start than we normally do. This is becuase we have made the decision to focus on a few core changes going into R21 rather than the standard "discuss everything thats wrong with the game" route. As such coding is occuring much more efficiently than normal.

Jolt is willing to provide paid coding resources, however we would need someone who has an in depth knowledge of the game becuase we arn't exactly using a waterfall development model.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 18:29   #19
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Inflation is like ~ 2% each year. so £10.00 in 2003 is equivalent to £10.79 today.
edit : actual inflation figures :
2006 2.30%
2005 2.10%
2004 1.30%
2003 1.40%

http://www.whatsthecost.com/cpi.aspx

I wouldnt personally call that significant
Its not simple a case of the overall inflation figures really - you also need to take into account sector specifc inflation i.e. how much prices have been changing in the online gaming sector etc.

Also from the point of view of a player paying, the inflation rate in their country is more important than the UK rate.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 18:31   #20
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Its not simple a case of the overall inflation figures really - you also need to take into account sector specifc inflation i.e. how much prices have been changing in the online gaming sector etc.

Also from the point of view of a player paying, the inflation rate in their country is more important than the UK rate.
No it isnt, stop talking nonsense.
Jolt get £5 for a single credit and £10 for three regardless of what the inflation rate in other peoples countries are
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 19:33   #21
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

i can't think of an excuse to post and add some support for keizari and phil^ here so instead i'll just make this meta-comment type of a post. go pa-team!
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 19:49   #22
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

anything less than 12 weeks is a rip off

kal who said 7 weeks was ok? a 20 ppl poll on forums?

why are you even around pa m8? your visions are only valid if youre under influence of lsd, strange behaviour 24/7 oddball
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:08   #23
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=193183 <-- a quick search reveals one of the threads on round length, but there are many others.

Shorter rounds have many benefits:
1) More focussed game play
2) greater income
3) Shorter gaps betweeen rounds
4) Skipping a round due to rl commitments is less of a big deal
5) Potentially quicker development as the success or failure of a feature can be seen sooner.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:16   #24
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Kal, Im not one for reading the ula or manual any longer, but was this shorted round announced in any way? Or was it discussed a few rounds ago and decided that this round would be the one it was tried in, then sprang upon the universe 2 days ago? Because I for one, would have adjusted my strategy if i had known it would be a shortened round.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:22   #25
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
Kal, Im not one for reading the ula or manual any longer, but was this shorted round announced in any way? Or was it discussed a few rounds ago and decided that this round would be the one it was tried in, then sprang upon the universe 2 days ago? Because I for one, would have adjusted my strategy if i had known it would be a shortened round.
It was an oversight on our part not including the round end date at the start of the round - normally the round end date is permenantly listed on the MOTD from the time signups open.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:24   #26
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

I think oversight is a poor term for this. After all, whomever forgot to mention it, has now totally changed the dynamics of the game.

How dare you people who make decisions about this game, not tell anyone you have modified the amount of time the round lasts for.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:34   #27
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

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Originally Posted by Fyodor
I think oversight is a poor term for this. After all, whomever forgot to mention it, has now totally changed the dynamics of the game.

How dare you people who make decisions about this game, not tell anyone you have modified the amount of time the round lasts for.
All I can do is apologise and make a personal promise to do my best to ensure it doesn't happen again.

However, I am slightly surprised it wasn't more common knowledge as the subject of how long the round is, and gaps between rounds has been discussed on occasion in #alliances and I'd have thought some alliance hcs would have noted the information and passed it on.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:41   #28
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

I am solo this round. You and yours base to much of your thought and decisions on what happens in #aliances, which is fine when it effects only alliances, but when it affects all players in the game, #alliance discussion is not a valid answer.

Im not looking for an apology (unless it was your oversight) I think the valid answer to this issue is to extend the round to the full legnth of the previous round, which I dont think would be hard to do at all. I personally dont care if this messes up the PA teams time schedules, as it is their oversight.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:50   #29
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

I don't think there is any need to lengthen the round beyond the stated end date. A round of Planetarion lasts from the announced start date to the announced end date. There is no set or defined length that a round should be. Yes, we should have announced the end date sooner, however unfortunatly we did not, that does not affect how long the round should be.

I realise that sounds somewhat harsh, but unless a date is announced for the end of the round people should not assume any particular date.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 20:57   #30
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Excellent answer. I came into this round and set my play style towards the normal round legnth. I understand what you are saying, but its about the bigger picture. Ive been leaning towards full retirment, but this type of management and answer from you has just assured that I shall not play another round. For better or for worse. I wish you and everyone the best.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:08   #31
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

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Originally Posted by Kal
[
1) More focussed game play
2) greater income
3) Shorter gaps betweeen rounds
4) Skipping a round due to rl commitments is less of a big deal
5) Potentially quicker development as the success or failure of a feature can be seen sooner.

1) yeh right xp whoreing pays off
2) well no need to pay for the shit anymore as freebees got enough to play cometetive
3) who cares
4) ^^
5) never helped you guys before

how can you walk around beeing that arogant that you are kal?
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:18   #32
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
Excellent answer. I came into this round and set my play style towards the normal round legnth. I understand what you are saying, but its about the bigger picture. Ive been leaning towards full retirment, but this type of management and answer from you has just assured that I shall not play another round. For better or for worse. I wish you and everyone the best.
I really do understand your positiion. And in many ways it would be good for us if we extended the round - more coding/testing time etc. However, I have to look at the big picture. If this round grows then it means it is no longer possible to fit 5 7 week rounds into the year. This would have huge repercussions it would probably force a switch to 4 8+ week rounds, which significantly alters game play, increase gaps between rounds, reduces revenue, etc.

Now i there was a consensus that 7 week rounds were too short then its worth thinking about this round. However we cannot change the length of this round becuase people thought it would be longer - we need to make the decision around long term issues.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:25   #33
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Can you somewhat explain the need to fit a number of rounds into one exact year? I still don't get why it has to be planned like that, the only thing that it does is making things needlessly complicated. Sure, i understand ppl would like to be free on certain dates, but thats why vacation mode was invented. Its just stupid to reduce the length a round because otherwise some vacation period might be in danger of 'needing' to play then aswell, while infact as i said you can take a break whenever you feel like it.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:32   #34
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

And i do understand where you are coming from logistically. But I pay for the game (I also pay for others to play). And not knowing somthing as vital as shortening the round, messes up my game. It is not my responsibilty to care about the repercussions of extending the round. I want what I thought I was paying for. If I had been informed of the alteration, then I could have made an educated decision about whether to play, and how to play.

What it comes down to is I cant stand the fact that something this game altering has just been dropped in my lap, and I just have to deal with it. So my thoughts on this is that I should either, get a free credit for next round, or a reduced cost credit, the game should be lengthened to what the pre-established length of the round has always been, or as a consumer, I walk away rather than deal with this type of nonsense in the future, and take with me my 3-12 credit purchases, which in the end is Jolts loss.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:41   #35
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
Can you somewhat explain the need to fit a number of rounds into one exact year? I still don't get why it has to be planned like that, the only thing that it does is making things needlessly complicated. Sure, i understand ppl would like to be free on certain dates, but thats why vacation mode was invented. Its just stupid to reduce the length a round because otherwise some vacation period might be in danger of 'needing' to play then aswell, while infact as i said you can take a break whenever you feel like it.
its not just about when players want to be free, its also about when PATeam, the support team etc. are going to be available. There is a strong possibility that there will be periods of time over the xmas holiday period where there will be no admins available in the event of a serious issue. That is not something we want to risk. And given that a fair proportion of the community also want the time off then I don't see why we shouldn't have the time off when it benefits many people.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:44   #36
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

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Originally Posted by Kal
This would have huge repercussions it would probably force a switch to 4 8+ week rounds, which significantly alters game play, increase gaps between rounds, reduces revenue, etc.
I doubt anyone would have a problem with 5 rounds of 7 weeks if it actually showed that OUR money was used for the game and it's development.
I will never buy an account again because of this (Jolts) mismanagement though.

On a sidenote, is it too much to ask what has been done with the last 16 rounds worth of income?
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 21:54   #37
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

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Originally Posted by Stoom
I doubt anyone would have a problem with 5 rounds of 7 weeks if it actually showed that OUR money was used for the game and it's development.
I will never buy an account again because of this (Jolts) mismanagement though.

On a sidenote, is it too much to ask what has been done with the last 16 rounds worth of income?
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 22:26   #38
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
I doubt anyone would have a problem with 5 rounds of 7 weeks if it actually showed that OUR money was used for the game and it's development.
I will never buy an account again because of this (Jolts) mismanagement though.

On a sidenote, is it too much to ask what has been done with the last 16 rounds worth of income?
Recouping costs of buying PA, server costs, paid coders (spinner, pishmishy, kloopy), biffy's time spent on the game. When you think about it PA doesn't really bring in that much money. For example my Loose budget for 2007 shows 0 profit, with some small investment from jolt in coding resources.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 22:44   #39
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

Buying pa was a onetime cost years ago afaik.
Does spinner actually do any coding for pa anymore?.

Its not like its major brain surgery to alter stats from round to round.
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Unread 28 Feb 2007, 22:49   #40
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Re: Round end date is 16th of March

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Buying pa was a onetime cost years ago afaik.
Does spinner actually do any coding for pa anymore?.

Its not like its major brain surgery to alter stats from round to round.
he asked for the last 16 rounds of costs - that includes buying it, paying spinner, etc. The last paid coder was Kloopy last year.
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