User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 6 May 2006, 05:35   #1
dda
USS Oklahoma
 
dda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Recent Elections

I have heard that the UK recently had some elections. Apparently, the results were not all that Tony Blair and the Labour Party would have wished. I have heard that the Conservatives picked up seats at Labour's expense.

As an outsider, this leads me to ask the following questions.

Does this mean that the British people have begun to be fed up with socialism and are secretly longing for a George Bushish leader?

I see that there have been shakeups in the government. Does this mean that T&F has lost or is in danger of losing his job?

Has Tony finally tumbled to the fact that T&F is a Conservative mole bent on distroying his government?

What is the connection between Yahwe's joining the labour force and the fall of labour's fortunes?

What is going on?
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
dda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 05:51   #2
NEWSBOT3
NEWSBOT
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
NEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriendNEWSBOT3 needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Recent Elections

ok the recent elections were for local not national government. And not for all local goverment seats either.

the only reason there were job changes after it is that the ruling labour party feared the effect of getting rid of people beforehand on their control of local councils
__________________
[20:27:47] <nodrog-aawy> **** i think my housemate just caught me masturbating
[11:25:32] <idimmu> you are a little piggy arent you
[13:17:00] <KaneED> i'm so closet i'm like narnia
__________________
Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
NEWSBOT3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 09:58   #3
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Does this mean that the British people have begun to be fed up with socialism and are secretly longing for a George Bushish leader?
The Labour Party are not, and have not been for a long time, under any reasonable definition a "socialist" party. I'd say they've not been a socialist party for 80 or so years, but certainly not since the abolition of 'Clause 4'.

The recent elections are a sign that the Labour Party are less popular, but it's not clear that there is any genuine shift to the right. The Tories made significant gains, but a lot of that is protest voting, i.e. voting against the government. In a small pocket in East London the shift was from Labour Party to the Respect Party (i.e. left-wing anti-war party). In other areas (e.g. Lewisham in South East London) the shift was to the Green Party (who are to the left of Labour on almost every conceivable issue). In other areas the right-wing BNP did reasonably well. In all cases votes were probably against rather than for.

The Conservatives do not actually have any major policy where they stand significantly to the right of the government (or at least not one they publically debate very often), and in fact on ID cards they are promising a slightly more libertarian approach. In every other major policy, the Tories seem unwilling to break the consensus that has been in place for a few years now.

The only real story was how dismal our third party (the Liberal Democrats) did, in comparison to the Tories.
Quote:
I see that there have been shakeups in the government. Does this mean that T&F has lost or is in danger of losing his job?
Our civil service is theoretically non-political so it would make no difference to most of them who was in power. In practice some higher ups / ideologues might quit, but most of them would not have to.

Quote:
What is going on?
Not a lot. It is probably similar to American politics - many people are dissatisfied in a general sense, but there is no real desire to step outside the consensus which broadly exists for the three parties. Even where there is a controversial issue (e.g. the war) it is not bloody or expensive enough for us to really become a vote winning issue. Like in the US, both our main parties were (and are) for the war. The difference is that the majority of Britons were (and probably still are, I'm not sure) against it.

British politics main issues over the last couple of months (according to a cursory glance at the media) :

- Crime (both parties broadly promise more vengeance, especially against foriegners)
- Economy (both parties promise to do nothing at all)
- ID Cards (there is some difference here, our government seem to be intent on pushing forward)
- Immigration (some vague talk about "getting tough" but the broad realisation that outside of BNP fantasies about repatriation, nothing much will change)
- Europe (some differences here although it's not discussed much recently)
- Running of public services, especially health (both parties promise better public services but don't really want to discuss how they're going to pay for it. Both are for internal market mechanisms which will apparently reduce costs and increase choice)
- Local taxes ('council' taxes which everyone pays, per household are considered too high and as they reflect property values they will get much higher. Both parties want to reform them, although it's not clear how).
- Housing (both parties promise to look at housing supply while doing very little to deal with the issue. Both give broad support to low cost home ownership iniatives - e.g. shared ownership, key worker accomodation, etc)

There's other stuff but you get the idea. It's all pretty much the same. The major parties will all have some sort of gimmick (who knows, maybe the Tories will push a flat rate tax) but it makes very little difference.

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 6 May 2006 at 10:05.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 10:52   #4
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Labour are socialist in the generic popular sense of that word, which means something like 'highly left wing', even if they arent socialist by the more technical definition which is only really used by marxists anyway (I doubt Tony Blair is actually in favour of a dictatorship of the proletariat for example, but then I doubt most normal people who self-identify as having 'socialist leanings' really want full-blown socialism either).
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 10:54   #5
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Labour are [...] 'highly left wing',
I would dispute this.

How are they "highly left wing"? I mean, if they are (because of their policies on welfare benefits / public services) then how the Tories or Lib Dems not?

edit : Dictatorship of the proletariat is a Leninist thing anyway. I'd base "socialism" more on how they viewed private ownership vs public ownership etc.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:03   #6
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
IHow are they "highly left wing"?

I mean, if they are (because of their policies on welfare benefits / public services) then how the Tories or Lib Dems not?
They all are, when viewed from any standpoint outwith the goldfish bowl of modern British politics. Fishes/water and all that. These terms are somewhat relative, since pretty much every current party in the UK would be considered heavily left wing by American standards (they all support socialised healthcare for instance, and income tax rates upwards of 40%). Britain doesnt really have any non-left parties at present, even amongst the fringes (the BNP are, despite popular misunderstanding, probably just as left wing as the Greens when you look at their actual economic policies).

Quote:
edit : Dictatorship of the proletariat is a Leninist thing anyway
It's from Marx

Last edited by Nodrog; 6 May 2006 at 11:11.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:10   #7
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
They all are, when it comes down to it.
Then it becomes pointless to talk about the British parties in those terms then. You may as well call all the parties "pro-Gay" because they don't call for the death penalty for homosexuals. If all parties share the same trait then if there is a shift from one party to another then it becomes a bit silly to say "There's a shift away from the socialists", since - by definition - they're all socialists...

And again, you've got to remember that you're using left/right in the sense of statist vs non-statist, whereas most people don't (I would imagine).

Quote:
It's from Marx
The usage generally refers to Lenin's use of it, not Marx's, but in either case it's not generally as a barometer for whether someone is a parliamentary socialist or not.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:20   #8
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Then it becomes pointless to talk about the British parties in those terms then. You may as well call all the parties "pro-Gay" because they don't call for the death penalty for homosexuals. If all parties share the same trait then if there is a shift from one party to another then it becomes a bit silly to say "There's a shift away from the socialists", since - by definition - they're all socialists...
To go with your 'gay' example, claiming that Labour arent a left wing party would be more like claiming a group of people in an Islamic dictatorship were pro-homosexual because they believed that gays only deserved to be shot, rather than burned alive. While I suppose you could say that they had vaguely progressive views relative to the rest of their countrymen, it would be absurd to suggest that they were anything other then backwards fundamentalists in an absolute sense. The same applies here - while Labour may not be left-wing when compared to (eg) the Labour party 50 years, they are still a heavily leftist party and this should not be ignored when discussing them (especially since dda is American, and telling him that "Labour are no longer socialist" may cause him to believe that they are somewhere to the right of the american Democrats, which is probably not the case).

Last edited by Nodrog; 6 May 2006 at 11:30.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:21   #9
Proteus
Lord Denning
 
Proteus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,550
Proteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: Recent Elections

All of this terminological disagreement is obscuring the fact that dda seems to believe that having a "George Bushish leader" is the only alternative to socialism.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
Proteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:32   #10
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Recently I've discovered my political leanings are somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan in the sense that I don't really object to asiatic hordes sweeping across the countryside marauding and pillaging as they go. After all it's the little things that count.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:38   #11
Ste
Bored
 
Ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,505
Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

All of this terminological disagreement is obscuring the fact that dda seems to believe that Tony Blair isn't George Bushish.
__________________
Wise men write because they have something to write about; fools write because they have to write something. - Plato

yeh so Plastic Brilliance is now known as FOXYSTOAT - Come on by and check it out!
Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 11:38   #12
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

The real problem at the moment is that there's no replacement for the current Labour Party. The Conservatives are still widely disliked by swathes of the country as a result of their poor performance during the early 1990s - and Blair's 1997 landslide wasn't dissimilar to the Democrats' collapse in 1994.

Until the electorate is willing to accept that the Conservatives have changed they'll never be elected. This is unfortunate, since they've got an excellent leader at the moment attempting to push the party away from the kneejerk populist right-wing and towards a more libertarian stand-point (pro-civil liberties, generally pro-business).

We won't ever elect someone like George Bush for two main reasons. First, faith isn't a big issue in this country except for when the low-brow tabloid trash blame Islam for 'our boys' being killed in Iraq. We're also pretty wary of those with evangelical faiths. In recent polls over 35% of all people claimed to be agnostic or atheist, and this will steadily rise as the older generations pass away. The census figure is 25% (for those who look it up), but I remember at the time that my parents refused to let me put on our family's form that I was atheist. Nevertheless, religion just isn't a big thing here. Most of those who claim to be Christian only pay lip-service to it, or just attend church at Christmas and Easter - it's not part of peoples' daily lives.

Secondly, the issues relied on by the social conservatives in America aren't important here. Abortion divides the USA in a way hardly contemplated here (although there may be some small changes to the limits on it due to scientific progress). Gun ownership is a non-issue because we don't own any guns.

The shake-ups in the Government are radical but essentially standard. A Prime Minister usually reshuffles his cabinet two or three times per five year term. The principle here is to inject new thinking into various departments of the civil service, since our civil service is traditionally (small c) conservative - it doesn't like change.

However, these shake-ups are now usually prompted by ministerial failures. Sacking one minister means that others can move to new departments or assume new responsibilities. It can be very tactical at times, although this latest re-shuffle hasn't been. I doubt much will change for as long as Blair remains leader.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 12:03   #13
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
All those so called issues in America aren't really issues for most people, they are just a smokescreen to cover up the main problems of social and political inequality. This is the same in the UK. Yes we don't argue about abortion, but we do harp on about immigrants, as if it was a remotely important issue, or even an issue.
.
Immigration is a huge issue, and I'm curious why you would think that it isnt.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 12:10   #14
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
David Cameron is not an excellent leader. He just isn't as retarded as previous Conservative leaders.
When you say this I just remind myself that you work in anti-Cameron central and you're hardly inclined towards the Tories in your own political outlook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
The Conservatives and Labour are by any sane analysis basically the same party. In fact all the main parties ar esimply factions of the same pro-business party. Although they might claim afiliation with Conservatism, socialism and liberalism, they do in fact let all these noble philosophies down, badly.
I agree, certainly in parliamentary politics. The activists are far closer to the philosophies than the MPs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
We elected Margaret Thatcher, so lets not get too smug.
Hurrah! Let's all get on the Thatcher-bashing bandwagon!

The most positive thing that came out of her leadership was that we didn't end up like France, paralysed by the trade unions. It was messy getting to that point, but at least the country doesn't shut down every time a group of workers wants extra pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
All those so called issues in America aren't really issues for most people, they are just a smokescreen to cover up the main problems of social and political inequality. This is the same in the UK. Yes we don't argue about abortion, but we do harp on about immigrants, as if it was a remotely important issue, or even an issue. We get all upset about Europe with no actually understanding what they are arguing about. I have been studying politics for over 10 years and have worked at the heart of Government for 3. I do admin for the Civil Servant responsible for promoting Europe (yes there is just 1, his name is Steve) Yet I still have no idea what all the fuss is about.
I disagree about abortion. The issue isn't based on social context like most matters are - it's faith-based in America, thou shalt not kill and the rest. Availability of abortion is socially-based but the actual merits/demerits of abortion are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Ministers are very rarely responsible for thiking within their departments, the peopel who already work in those departments already know what broadly needs to be done, they just have to balance that with how much money they are prepared to spend on it. What you really need is someone who can inspire confidence in their colleagues and sounds good on the radio.
I'll leave this to your better judgement. However, I believe that the principle I outlined should be how it operates, even if it actually doesn't.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 12:15   #15
Boogster
I dunno...
 
Boogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
Boogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud of
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The real problem at the moment is that there's no replacement for the current Labour Party. The Conservatives are still widely disliked by swathes of the country as a result of their poor performance during the early 1990s - and Blair's 1997 landslide wasn't dissimilar to the Democrats' collapse in 1994.

Until the electorate is willing to accept that the Conservatives have changed they'll never be elected. This is unfortunate, since they've got an excellent leader at the moment attempting to push the party away from the kneejerk populist right-wing and towards a more libertarian stand-point (pro-civil liberties, generally pro-business).
I think the Tories are fast becoming a legitimate (and welcome) replacement, but largely because of Labour's own inadequacies. Cameron is a likable leader at least, and he is changing the public's perception of the Conservative Party as a party that doesn't care, but he's not exactly offered a distinct alternative. I think the next election will, yet again, focus upon public services, and the party that seems the most likely to introduce improvements will win the most seats.
__________________
He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.
Boogster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:06   #16
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
As I just heard on the radio;

"Immigrants, coming over here, taking our jobs. No. Doing our jobs!"
Well yeah, the way its normally framed in mass-media is stupid, but immigration policy in general is still a tremendously important issue.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:17   #17
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

"Look I'm not exactly a big fan of black people so why don't we put them all in camps when they come over until we figure out what to do with them?"








It's funny because someone really said it






PS Personally I always liked the french for their use of strikes. It shows an understanding of real democracy and power relations that people all too frequently overlook.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:24   #18
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
1. Actually we rarely talk about Cameron, we are civil servants, our main enemy's are the public and the media. We let the party's fight amonst themselves. Furthermore I refer you to my many rants referring to the Prime Minister as a murderous war criminal. I am not inclined towards any of the main parties in my political outlook, for a variety of reasons articulated in many of my 5,000 posts and in my blog. I also refer you to Dante's posts.
Ok. It's not for me to further contest the nature of your own job, so I'll leave this alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
3. Well I think that band wagon is called memory, but I was merely reacting to your Bush bashing, hardly a bravely original standpoint on your part.
Bush bashing? Where has this even come from?!!

There was nothing in my post that was anti-George Bush. He provides a crutch for about a third of Americans to lean on in their times of need. He reassures them about their own moral views. He has one of the greatest 'fanbases' of any American president of the 20th century (while in office), and this fact is only muted by the number of people equally hostile to him. I don't bash George Bush, even if I object to most of his views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
4. There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't know where to start. Firstly the miners strike was not about higher pay but about the closing of profitable pits and the removal of job security from the work force, a work force who subsequently got significantly poorer, especially since Thatchers economic policies were mainly concerend with transferring large amounts of money from the poor to the rich, policies which have now been adopted by the Labour and Conservative parties as truisms. Furthermore we still have strikes in this country and can expect more. Despite allegedly invoking these policies to make Britiash industry competitive even casual observers will note that there is no such thing as British industry as factory after factory closes down and the workers are left powerless to do anything about it.
Somehow I didn't see you agreeing with me on this
  1. I didn't say that the miners' strike was about extra pay - it was a French example.
  2. Yes, the industrial working class suffered, especially in mining regions. Agriculture was fattened up by the CAP, as evil as it may be.
  3. I don't believe that Thatcher's policies were as overtly redistributive as you claim, but this depends on your political viewpoint and how much emphasis it puts on redistribution of wealth.
  4. The only truly successful strikes that we have are those of the Tube drivers (RMT), because London cannot survive without the Tube. The fire service strikes started out popular but the public generally turned against them as time went on.
  5. The failure of Western industry is a global phenomenon, not one kept to the UK. Yes, jobs are lost. We simply can't compete with China, Malaysia et al where workers struggle to be paid a dollar a day. What's your solution to this?
  6. At present the UK's financial services industry is superb, and a lot of this is to do with Thatcher's policies in the late 1980s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
5. Oh i am sure the issue is faith based, but I assure you that if you look at polls in America, abortion isn't the issue, its just the only issue that politicians want to talk about. They don't want to talk about a National Health Service, a decent welfare system or proper public education, but those are the real issues in American politics.
A universal healthcare system has been continually derided in America, labelled with the tag of socialism which inspires in Americans a knee-jerk reaction similar to that of the word 'liberal'. Welfare reform has no chance of ever passing a House which is elected every two years, where representatives are continually thinking about their re-election prospects and how certain issues will harm them. America has few, if any, public servants left.

Furthermore, federalism in America has been a failure because of the three issues which you identified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
6. Well perhaps but unless ministers have suddenly become policy geniuses with the ability to do a several PHDs worth of background work in the time it takes to walk to their office, then I fail to see what brilliant new ideas they are going to produce.
I'm not asking for in-depth knowledge, I'm asking for an ability to inject new thinking into issues where a weak status quo has been arrived at. I'm hoping that a minister can attempt to balance the two sides of a policy debate, not write papers on each of them.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:26   #19
Marv
Jazz Man
 
Marv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,494
Marv is a jewel in the roughMarv is a jewel in the roughMarv is a jewel in the rough
Re: Recent Elections

Blair is a cock. nuff said.
__________________
Marv

Ex ROCK HC & PA Team Head of Support.
Marv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:30   #20
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,306
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

While i feel Cameron is likeable and looks to be the first tory in a while to have Labour on the run, I feel there's a massive trust issue with him and I'm quite uncomfortable simply because he is vague and pulls off "stunts". It's why i voted for him as wanker of the month. And while that's a problem, I feel the "keep out the tories" mentality will always keep labour support motivated and the floating voters away from the tories when it comes to the crunch in a general election. Labour will really need to get a lot more hate at them to be kicked out.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:34   #21
Boogster
I dunno...
 
Boogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
Boogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud of
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Do you, well thank you for that analysis. They are an alternatice to Labour in the same way that Heart disease is an alternative to cancer.

Not once in your appraisal have you mentioned Cameron's policies, you have just said that he has conned people into thinking he is a nioce sensible bloke. Soryy to burst the bubble but he isn't, at least n omore than any of the other retards who thinkthey should be leader of the country.

Which party is going to improve public services exactly, and how are they going to do it?
Are you drunk? I said in my post that Cameron has not offered a distinct alternative. Stop ramming your megaphone down my throat.
__________________
He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.
Boogster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 13:49   #22
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
Blair is a cock. nuff said.
Actually, he strikes me as pretty genuine. Your description of him as a 'cock' just means that I'll be ignoring you for the rest of this thread.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 14:33   #23
Deepflow
Next goal wins!
 
Deepflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,407
Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Cameron offers (or appears to offer, which is the important thing as far as the electorate are concerned) a distinct alternative because it's the best thing for him to do in the situation. Well, perhaps he isn't but him and his party both knew that by the next election they could very well be in a position to run the country if they had a leader that appealed to the masses. Which he certainly does.

As far as the nature of the next prime minister goes, I think it's reasonably safe to assume it's going to be Cameron (although, who knows, this statement could become the next "Kinnock will be the next pm" of the early 90s) will be the next Prime Minister. His nature however, seems more or less to be crafted on the model of Blair '94-99' or something, before the sheen was rubbed away. We're just going to end up with another Blair.

I know I'm not actually referring to any policies in my post, but that's because, as plenty of people have already said the policies are almost exactly the same for the two (almost three, but I think the LD's are different enough to actually change the situation slightly, although I'm not suggesting they would cure the ills of society or anything) major parties. All that's left is image, and the Conservatives are streaks ahead of everyone else on that at this point.

edit: I forgot to mention that the fact that the only difference in a policy that actually matters between the Conservatives and Labour is Europe. Which could end up having disastrous consequences for us if the Conservatives get in Government and start being rude to everyone again. The problem is, even though it's the most important issue on which there is actual schism between Labour and Conservative, most people don't consider it when voting.
__________________
bastard bastard bastard bastard
Deepflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 14:47   #24
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

I don't like Cameron's Europe policy so far, especially with his attempt to disaffiliate Conservative MEPs from the EPP in the European Parliament. However, he hasn't outlined a view on the EU itself yet, so I still have hope.

For those wondering, my position is that we're fine in the EU as we are, we shouldn't leave - but we don't need to integrate any further either. We need to sort out the CAP, but that'll never happen for as long as France has any sort of power.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 14:52   #25
Deepflow
Next goal wins!
 
Deepflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,407
Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

There's actually a deadline for CAP reform (or at least looking at it); 2012 or something. It will probably be unsustainable (to an even greater degree) by then anyway.
__________________
bastard bastard bastard bastard

Last edited by Deepflow; 6 May 2006 at 14:57.
Deepflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 15:27   #26
Ste
Bored
 
Ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,505
Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

the only reason I'd like to see the Conservatives in power is because then we might see a decent opposition party.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Conservatives are really confused what to do when the Labour party are putting forward Tory policies and won't vote against them.

The Labour backbenchers (a lot of whom are very decent people) will then be free to vote against the stupid tory policies.
__________________
Wise men write because they have something to write about; fools write because they have to write something. - Plato

yeh so Plastic Brilliance is now known as FOXYSTOAT - Come on by and check it out!
Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 16:28   #27
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
All of this terminological disagreement is obscuring the fact that dda seems to believe that having a "George Bushish leader" is the only alternative to socialism.
The US and the UK are... "Two countries divided by a common language." .
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 16:47   #28
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Recent Elections

Just as an aside, i noted in the media today that Jack Straw got the sack with regards to the Foreign Secretary - i find that very strange indeed, as at least in Australia he comes across as a very knowledgeable and respectable man who for all outwards appearances is competent. Clearly, this type of person is rare in a Ministry, and thus why on earth would someone "Demote" him to the Speaker of the House of Commons?

What did he do? (or not do)?
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:15   #29
A2
#planetarion
 
A2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 1,537
A2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud ofA2 has much to be proud of
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Clearly, this type of person is rare in a Ministry, and thus why on earth would someone "Demote" him to the Speaker of the House of Commons?
Leader of the House of Commons, not Speaker
__________________
- A2
A2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:22   #30
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,409
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Recent Elections

I do have to agree with the point that Blair comes across as quite genuine. He gets out of almighty messes almost scathe free, and while he supports his cabinet they usually end up taking the fall. I think Blair is hanging on as long as possible because he thinks that Brown is no way near as good in terms of people / publicity skills (which, to be honest, Brown isn't) and Labour would be in a lot more trouble, not because of policies but because of what is said, when Blair leaves.
Getting Brown in might actually lead to a few more left wing policies, but that's really not the major issue.
TBH, he really needs to step down in the next 6 months - 1 year, so Brown has enough time to establish himself before the next general election, but I think he wants to leave it as late as possible.

I have to say that a lot of the senior figures in the cabinet now probably don't have too much of the public's confidence, but most of the Conservatives aren't very well known and so tbh can't take a huge amount of advantage.

A lot of things need to be sorted out (imo), although they always do, but there's so many layers between the top ranks and the "front line" that it takes quite a while to implement any changes and make the public aware of them, and any changes that are made have to be pretty well informed anyway. Education and the NHS have changed so much in the last 10 or so years that it's really not easy to sort everything out.

Of course, sorting out things like the fact that younger kids these days seem to be less controllable isn't a simple issue.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:40   #31
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
I'm pretty sure a lot of Conservatives are really confused what to do when the Labour party are putting forward Tory policies and won't vote against them.
Ditto if the Conservatives started promoting socialist policies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
The Labour backbenchers (a lot of whom are very decent people) will then be free to vote against the stupid tory policies.
A decent handful of them already feel free to vote against the stupid labour policies anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
You say we wouldn't elect somewhat like George Bush on the basis of his religious outlook. but I feel I misinterpreted this becasue I don't believe that americans voted for him fort hat reason either. it is true that there are many religious Americans. but the religious right represents a relatively small proportion of the electorate and as I have said, most voters would have voted on more serious issues than religion and abortion. I wouldn't even say that George Bush's administration was even particularly characterised by his religious conviction. In terms of his fan base he actually polls very low. It is worth recalling that the majority of American voters did not vote for either of the main candidates and people generally can't see a worthwhile difference between the Democratsor Republicans. I think your analysis of American politics is oversimplified and you seem to have just lifted out of the mainstream media.
In 2000 Bush got a lot of votes based on his apparant compassionate conservatism (public services, welfare reform) and his pledge to be "a uniter, not a divider". This appealed to a lot of Americans who were sick of the divided government under Clinton, who had battled against a Republican Congress for six of his eight years in office.

However, in 2004 these issues had been cast to one side. The election was fought on national security, with Kerry attempting to go head-to-head with Bush on this. It was essentially clinched by the 527 group Swift Boat Veterans For Truth destroying Kerry's record, rightly or wrongly. Voters were voting on the personality of the two men, and the continuous attacks on Kerry clinched it for Bush.

I think you may be trying to over-complicate things. The soundbite nature of American politics as part of the TV war at election time means that candidates don't have time to outline all of their policies - and instead they fight over only a couple of key issues. The party bases are rallied by core issues, and for the Republicans these are gay marriage, abortion and now immigration. As for your suggestion that I'm simply lifting my words from the mainstream media, I don't think that's anywhere near close to the truth. My own pitiful credentials are A-Level Politics, with a specialism in American politics (especially the Supreme Court). I've kept pretty up-to-date on everything and followed the 2004 election like a hawk. I'll concede that I read the Washington Post because it's got one of the better websites, as well as a focus on American political machinations, but if you can find me somewhere with better analysis then please do so. America's lack of a credible national newspaper is pretty annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
i never said that you said the miners strike was about extra pay. But you characterised Thatcher's destruction of workers rights as a fight against workers demanding more pay. that was simply not true. its not even true fo the French example. Furthermore as I sai it hasn't stopped strikes. there are stikes all over the country its just that they don't get reported so much. What about the Liverpool dockers for example. Massive strike went on for years, you don't even mention it. That tells us alot about the reporting of stikes and about your anaysis of the political situation in the UK.
I wasn't alive at this time, so you'll have to excuse me for not being incredibly thorough. I didn't characterise the miners as fighting for more pay, at least not intentionally.

As for reporting of strikes, I'm not going to be able to argue against issues which aren't reported and which I wasn't alive for. As far as I'm concerned you could tell me anything, say that it hasn't been reported as part of an Establishment conspiracy against the working class and I'm not going to have a rejoiner to it, am I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Furthermore its not just the idustrial working class who have suffered. Most workers have less stable working conditions than 30 years ago, the gap between richest and poorest is growing at a very rapid rate. People have had their pensions stolen and all the Government can do is wring its hands. I don't see what CAP has to do with anything.
I'm not going to get into an in-depth analysis of workers' rights in an elections thread. The pensions crisis is the fault of a recent stock market collapse and the current Government's policy on pensions. I brought up CAP because it's been extremely good to the UK's farmers, and provides a contrast between the UK's industrial workers and agricultural workers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
If as you say we simply can't compete with China and co why bother dismantling employment rights on the pretext of competitiveness?
I didn't say that.

You said that:
Quote:
Despite allegedly invoking these policies to make Britiash industry competitive even casual observers will note that there is no such thing as British industry as factory after factory closes down and the workers are left powerless to do anything about it.
I simply replied that this is has a lot to do with multinational companies moving their factories to cheaper and cheaper areas. However, their growth wasn't foreseeable at in the 1980s, so unless the Conservative government at that time had a crystal ball then frankly I'm not so willing to blame everything on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Its an interesting thing about financial services because I think generally speaking most people feel let down by their bank, their insurance company and their pension provider. I think most peopel believe the Housing boom and huge mortgages resulting from that to be something of a scam. So you must be using some stramge definition of the word superb which I have been hitherto unaware of.
No, I was using a different definition of the word 'financial services' - the firms in the City and Docklands - the banks, insurers and investors.

Everyone's always hated insurance companies. No-one's ever really liked their bank. The 1980s housing boom-bust was sadly standard for the times, and credit must go to Clarke, Brown and the Bank of England for ending this cycle (I won't mention Brown's other policies though). The failure of endowment morgages was indeed the fault of lenders, but they're not what I'm talking about. We're a world-leader in investment of stocks and shares with the largest financial centre in Europe - for example, all of the world's big insurers have offices here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Furthermore, federalism in America has been a failure because of the three issues which you identified.
Essentially the federal-state relationship is a mess because the issues which need federal money don't get it, and the states aren't able to provide it on their own without raising taxes. Elections every two years mean that most state congressmen will stick to populist measures only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
While it might seem like a sensible way for departments to work I don't knwo that it has ever been this way. If you consider that there have been 8 pensions minister in 9 years. If you consider that the Education minister has been moved but the education White paper remains, if you consider that her predecessor Charles Clarke had little or in interest in Education whatsoever, but was fortunately moved to the Hoem Office where he proved to be singularly useless. If we consider the farce at the ODPM where a man like John Prescott has been in charge for years. If we look at Margaret Beckett's almost ghostliek presence at DEFRA, her single achivement to completely smother any progress on the environment by the UK. The names change but the shit policies stay the same.
Is this the fault of Labour politicians or a general malaise? I don't have your level of insight so I can't really comment much on this. Most of my knowledge of the executive comes from the Crossman Diaries and the diaries of Alan Clark. Certainly Richard Crossman attempted to do what I said - or at least did in his own mind.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:42   #32
Boogster
I dunno...
 
Boogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
Boogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud of
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
the only reason I'd like to see the Conservatives in power is because then we might see a decent opposition party.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Conservatives are really confused what to do when the Labour party are putting forward Tory policies and won't vote against them.

The Labour backbenchers (a lot of whom are very decent people) will then be free to vote against the stupid tory policies.
I think it likely that Labour as the opposition would be more openly split between the centrists and the socialists, just as the Conservatives were over Europe (and arguably are still). Being out of power does not tend to breed consensus within the ranks - not immediately, at least. This tension between the back-benchers and the modernisers will be exacerbated with the resignation of Blair, which is why he is loathe to step down, especially in the current climate of public distrust. It's a paradoxical situation: the Conservatives are percieved as in need of modernisation to attract new voters, yet many see Labour as the victim of an excessive and manipulative modernising process.

Ah, the cycles of politics.
__________________
He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.

Last edited by Boogster; 6 May 2006 at 17:49.
Boogster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:43   #33
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Just as an aside, i noted in the media today that Jack Straw got the sack with regards to the Foreign Secretary - i find that very strange indeed, as at least in Australia he comes across as a very knowledgeable and respectable man who for all outwards appearances is competent. Clearly, this type of person is rare in a Ministry, and thus why on earth would someone "Demote" him to the Speaker of the House of Commons?

What did he do? (or not do)?
As I said on IRC, most people are mystified as to this change. Margaret Beckett is a journeywomen with no real achievements except for blinded loyalty to Blair. Straw has done an excellent job and his demotion is probably the worst thing about this reshuffle.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:48   #34
Boogster
I dunno...
 
Boogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
Boogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud ofBoogster has much to be proud of
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
As I said on IRC, most people are mystified as to this change. Margaret Beckett is a journeywomen with no real achievements except for blinded loyalty to Blair. Straw has done an excellent job and his demotion is probably the worst thing about this reshuffle.
That old man with the wild hair on Question Time fancied her, though.
__________________
He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.
Boogster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 17:58   #35
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
the only reason I'd like to see the Conservatives in power is because then we might see a decent opposition party.
How would that be useful (in the short-term)? Opposition parties, traditionally speaking, have been useless. That might change if we entered a hung parliament, but then regardless which party formed a government there'd still be crap policies being put forward.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 18:36   #36
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,477
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
How would that be useful (in the short-term)? Opposition parties, traditionally speaking, have been useless. That might change if we entered a hung parliament, but then regardless which party formed a government there'd still be crap policies being put forward.
A strong opposition party sometimes reduces the likliehood of things getting done, which is generally a good thing.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 18:41   #37
Ste
Bored
 
Ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,505
Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

to both Dante and Boogster.
As half of the labour party seem to have abandoned their morality when it comes to voting on privatisation, war, tuition fees, health etc etc and simply voted with the government on all these things because Blair did the whole "don't vote with the tories" defence*, I hope that if they were voting on exactly the same conservative policies then they would vote against it.

As I see it, the people leading both the conservatives and labour have exactly the same ideologies. (let's call it new labour)
The backbenchers for each party are the difference.
I identify with the Labour backbenchers more strongly but currently feel they are voting for the New Labour policies because they are afraid of the tories 'winning' (and whatever else the whips office tells them).
The conservatives are letting through pretty much all of New Labours policies (as they agree with them too) unless they can say "it doesn't go far enough" or "we agree with all of it except this little bit" etc.

So my point is - labour would be more likely to vote down a 'new labour' proposal if it came from the conservatives than if it came from labour.



*sorry about the long sentence
__________________
Wise men write because they have something to write about; fools write because they have to write something. - Plato

yeh so Plastic Brilliance is now known as FOXYSTOAT - Come on by and check it out!
Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 18:45   #38
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,941
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
So my point is - labour would be more likely to vote down a 'new labour' proposal if it came from the conservatives than if it came from labour.
Yeah, but as I say - if the Conservatives formed a government then in most cases they wouldn't need Labour votes for their legislation to pass. In fact, it doesn't really matter how anyone votes in parliament so long as you have a majority.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 19:41   #39
Ste
Bored
 
Ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,505
Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Ste has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

they might complain about it more meaning more media attention...
__________________
Wise men write because they have something to write about; fools write because they have to write something. - Plato

yeh so Plastic Brilliance is now known as FOXYSTOAT - Come on by and check it out!
Ste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 May 2006, 20:12   #40
SYMM
Love's Sweet Exile
 
SYMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living on a Stair (Now Sword-less)
Posts: 2,371
SYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better placeSYMM single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Recent Elections

I don't think I read where nodrog explained why (he thinks) immigration is actually an issue?
__________________
--SYMM--
Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do
SYMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 04:11   #41
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by A2
Leader of the House of Commons, not Speaker
Whoops, misheard it on the radio. My apologies

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
As I said on IRC, most people are mystified as to this change. Margaret Beckett is a journeywomen with no real achievements except for blinded loyalty to Blair. Straw has done an excellent job and his demotion is probably the worst thing about this reshuffle.
Well, i just noticed that wikipedia speculates that Jack Straw asked to be demoted away from the Foreign Office - bit interesting.

It should be noted, though, that the article also mentioned that the Deputy PM asked to be stripped of his portfoilo after he stripped his secretary, and that Clarke refused the offer of an alternative ministerial post.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 05:35   #42
dda
USS Oklahoma
 
dda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.dda has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

I haven't pareticipated in the discussion because I know nothing about British politics. However, I am very interested in getting some small grasp on the situation. I have followed the discussion with great interst and would like to thank all of you who have contributed to answering my little question.

(I was very pleased to learn that T&F seems to be bullet proof in his current position.)
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
dda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 09:28   #43
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, i just noticed that wikipedia speculates that Jack Straw asked to be demoted away from the Foreign Office - bit interesting.

It should be noted, though, that the article also mentioned that the Deputy PM asked to be stripped of his portfoilo after he stripped his secretary, and that Clarke refused the offer of an alternative ministerial post.
Yes, I heard about Straw as well. However, it seems a suprising time to do it and I think that it may have come a little early for Straw and the country - a general ambition doesn't always equal urgent need. The reshuffle was forced on Blair by recent scandals and the local election defeats. Besides, appointing Beckett as replacement is dire. I think I would have suggested to Gordon Brown that if he wants to become PM, he'd need experience outside of the Treasury, and Foreign Secretary is perfect for that.

I doubt that Prescott really suggested he should lose his powers - perhaps it was suggested that he suggest it
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 12:10   #44
Androme
☆ ♥ 
 
Androme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
Androme can only hope to improve
Re: Recent Elections

The BNP won 11 seats in Barking. They practically own it ( & Dagenham). In Loughton, which is almost where my school is but I have to pass through to get home, also a VERY racist area, 4 out of the 5 councilors were BNP.

I haven't read through the whole thread but every year they're gaining seats.

Here's a good article btw.

http://zeemo.blogspot.com/2006/05/bl...eople-bnp.html
__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
R7: Fury
----------retired-------
R52-R55: Apprime
R56-R57: FaceLess
R58-60: Apprime/Ultores

Last edited by Androme; 7 May 2006 at 14:01.
Androme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 15:07   #45
Deepflow
Next goal wins!
 
Deepflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,407
Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I haven't pareticipated in the discussion because I know nothing about British politics. However, I am very interested in getting some small grasp on the situation. I have followed the discussion with great interst and would like to thank all of you who have contributed to answering my little question.

(I was very pleased to learn that T&F seems to be bullet proof in his current position.)
You should be made aware that T&Fs opinion is very much a minority one, bullet proof as it may be. If you discuss it with some real life English friends or something they may think you are just talking rubbish
__________________
bastard bastard bastard bastard
Deepflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 15:25   #46
1-X
overtired
 
1-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,900
1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.1-X has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
You should be made aware that T&Fs opinion is very much a minority one, bullet proof as it may be. If you discuss it with some real life English friends or something they may think you are just talking rubbish
I think that by "T&F's position" dda meant his job security rather than his political beliefs
1-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 May 2006, 15:34   #47
Deepflow
Next goal wins!
 
Deepflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,407
Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Deepflow has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Recent Elections

Don't mind me, I'm still ****ed
__________________
bastard bastard bastard bastard
Deepflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2018