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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:23   #1
JammyJim
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Yahwe or UK Legal folk

some guy just pulled into the side of me (thankfully i saw and broke hard so we only just touched) on a dual carriageway after we we had just joined. (so a fair bit less than 70mph)


We pulled over. He immediately admitted it was his fault.

However i had my camera on me and was 'talking to it' whilst i drove (it was in my top pocket) so id remember an idea i had for a work related thing. As it happens it recorded him saying it was his fault multiple times when i got out the car as i forgot to turn it off.

If this goes through the insurance companies (as i fear it will) and he goes 'it was his fault blah blah blah' can this be used?

He quite clearly says it multiple times on the recording but im unsure if its admissable as evidence or whatnot...

any advice ?
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:24   #2
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Exclamation Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Surely it would be purely at the discretion of the insurance company as to whether it was admissable?
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:27   #3
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

I'd say it was your fault for concentrating on talking to your phone, I mean..camera, right?

Seriously, who talks to a camera!?
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:30   #4
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

That's not all that was going on. If I tell you that KaneED was also in JJ's car at the time, then I think you can well imagine what was a'happening in that little motor vehicle of his. (Or the 'Pussy Wagon' as JJ doubtless calls it.)
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:39   #5
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
I'd say it was your fault for concentrating on talking to your phone, I mean..camera, right?

Seriously, who talks to a camera!?
1. Thats the reason i had a camera in my top pocket recording our entire conversation as far as anyone is concerened. I just happened to forget to turn it off. In the same way i just happened to have it set to microphone and i just happened to be recording some notes whilst sitting in mcdonalds moments before and i just happened not to turn it off by mistake or i mustve hit the button by mistake.

______
read here
_______



However i wasnt on the phone. The radio was off as i was driving and thinking at same time. If i hadnt reacted so quickly theres a good chance that right now id be talking to a cop in the back of an ambulance or splattered all over the central reservation.

The point still remains.


Is recorded 'i did it. its all my fault. im terrible sorry.'

admissable>?
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:46   #6
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Pretty sure Yahwe has said in previous threads this type of "evidence" wouldnt stand up.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:49   #7
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

I haven't done Evidence so can't offer any help here, sorry
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Unread 2 May 2006, 18:55   #8
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

I seem to remember reading that anything recorded without the other person's knowledge/consent wasn't usually admissable in court. However, it seems unlikely this would actually go to court.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 19:14   #9
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

did you tell him you were recording him?
unless he let you record him then you're not allowed... or something.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 20:07   #10
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
did you tell him you were recording him?
unless he let you record him then you're not allowed... or something.
legally ?

thats not the same as an insurance claim, unless it gets disputed in court, which is rare iirc.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 20:49   #11
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

nodrog, please be less shit.

posting a single dot makes you out to be a bigger moron than Quazok or QDeathstar

and that makes me sad


edit - oic deleted it now have you
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Unread 2 May 2006, 20:50   #12
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
Is recorded 'i did it. its all my fault. im terrible sorry.'

admissable>?
Its because of people like you that a lot of companies/individuals have a "never apologise, never admit mistakes" policy.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:06   #13
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Its because of people like you that a lot of companies/individuals have a "never apologise, never admit mistakes" policy.

No, its because its stupid to get out of a car and say 'yes it was my fault' when potentially it might not be. Its not 'a lot of companies' its every insurance company and anyone who knows anything about claims.

And its because people tend to dispute it that it was recorded in the first place


dont be retarded.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:12   #14
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

I'm still not clear why you were recording the conversation in the first place.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:19   #15
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

I've been in the car with you.

I don't believe you !
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:22   #16
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm still not clear why you were recording the conversation in the first place.

Because whilst he might be 'omg im so sorry it was all my fault' at the accident, knowing how much its going to cost to repair has a tendency for people to go 'oh shit...well er....it wasnt my fault...he drove into me!'


As ive seen this happen before to my brother when some woman cut him up on a roundabout and then we had to go through an almighty fuss to get any kind of payment for the damage I thought 'better to be safe than sorry'

A healthy state of paranoia i suppose and complete distrust for anyone dumb enough to not bother checking their mirror when pulling out.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:24   #17
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

You were driving too slowly.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:24   #18
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

You are all a bunch of homos sometimes*.







*most of the time.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 21:52   #19
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Which makes you the chief homo?
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Unread 2 May 2006, 22:10   #20
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

ITT sniborp has a full understanding of the forums hierarchy.
Although personally I prefer the term "head homo" as it has both alliteration and blowjob connotations to its merit.
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Unread 2 May 2006, 22:18   #21
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

The 'Big cheese'
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Unread 2 May 2006, 22:21   #22
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
You are all a bunch of homos sometimes*.
see.

I COULD help you ...

but this homophobia shit. It's not exactly going to induce me to now is it?
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Unread 3 May 2006, 00:31   #23
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

im not homophobic.

i made friends with kaneed
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Unread 3 May 2006, 00:57   #24
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

it wouldnt be admissable in court, but it would never get to court, at worst your insurance co. would ask what evidence you had, at which point you could give them that, and they would then contact the other insurance co. who would then admit liability on the part of their driver.

remember, just because something isnt admissable in court, doesnt mean you cant use it.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 05:22   #25
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

.*
























**** you NB3
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Unread 3 May 2006, 05:37   #26
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
.*

**** you NB3
the difference between nodrog and you, is that he acts as though he got past puberty.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 08:35   #27
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
im not homophobic.

i made friends with kaneed
**** you fatty
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Unread 3 May 2006, 08:49   #28
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Surely the guy has admitted it was his fault though.

Are you expecting him to go back on this admittance then? Why would he? Why do you need to prove he said it was his fault?

And I'm pretty sure him going "it was my fault it was my fault" on a recording (especially without his consent) straight after the crash isn't proof it WAS his fault. He can always change his story for the insurance claim if he wants, and say he wasn't thinking clearly or whatever.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 09:45   #29
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

yeah, but its pretty damning evidence from your insurance companies point of view
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Unread 3 May 2006, 11:15   #30
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Isn´t this going into the privacy laws? Should you not have, in word or writing, told him you were recording everything, and have asked permission to do so?
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Unread 3 May 2006, 12:32   #31
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
yeah, but its pretty damning evidence from your insurance companies point of view
Not if the guy just says it wasn't him.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 17:24   #32
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

true, bu when i record stuff, i can tell who it is saying it tbh, and the privacy laws would only apply if you were going to use it legally, in evidence against him in the courts, which JJ isnt
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Unread 3 May 2006, 18:07   #33
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Well heres some info for everyone who said 'why would you need to tape him??' or 'its people like you who force insurance companies to say dont admit liability'

Dad just phoned him

Apparently i was using my mobile phone coming up at high speed flashing my lights at him and it was all my fault.


My car has bluetooth handsfree. Its not an aftermarket kit from carphone warehouse. It is inbuilt into the car. When i sit down the car pairs with the phone and transfers my phonebook onto the IDrive.

At the time i was listening to Kerrang Radio because i remember having to mute it. So there is no possible way (even if i was on the phone which i wasnt) of him being able to tell i was.

Second of all.... We had just joined the dual carriageway and there was no possible way of us going above 70mph at this point so 'high speed' my ass.


At least i got it taped because the dude is seemingly going to dispute the whole thing.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 18:42   #34
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Surely the guy has admitted it was his fault though.

Are you expecting him to go back on this admittance then? Why would he? Why do you need to prove he said it was his fault?

And I'm pretty sure him going "it was my fault it was my fault" on a recording (especially without his consent) straight after the crash isn't proof it WAS his fault. He can always change his story for the insurance claim if he wants, and say he wasn't thinking clearly or whatever.
To backup the post JJ just made, my mum had a lorry reverse into her (she was in his blind spot) on a country road, as there was a lorry coming the other way and she pulled in behind the lorry.

he admitted it was his fault and it even that it had happened before, she phoned up the company and they gave her details about how to claim, she passed it to the insurance company, and then the guy's insurance company refused to pay out. It went to court, where the court ruled we had a lot of information and we couldn't have got it if they weren't trying to cover it up.
If they refused the information when mum phoned up, I doubt we'd have got anything, and the whole of the front of her car was smashed up.

it's a bit ****ed up tbh. I'm more inclined to act like JJ at any future accident than anything else.
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Unread 4 May 2006, 10:42   #35
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Its not admissable in court for all those even wondering.

The insurance company have said they can look at it and listen to it but cant really use it. Its down to the accident investigation to look at the damage to the cars and the accounts from both drivers.

Im now praying that truth and justice prevail.
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Unread 4 May 2006, 23:00   #36
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
Its not admissable in court for all those even wondering.
I was not wondering.

However it is admissable.

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Unread 4 May 2006, 23:47   #37
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Could you explain why so i can phone up my insurers and go 'i have been reliably informed by a highly respected london barrister that the tape can be used in evidence against the chump'

<3 yahwe

much <3
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Unread 5 May 2006, 12:36   #38
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

To be honest it's not a question of why is it admissable. It's a question of why it might be inadmissable.

Since the institution of the Wolfe Reforms and the Civil Procedure Rules (which came in while I was still an undergrad so about 99/2000) there are almost no instances of inadmissable evidence in civil claims (what you think of as 'suing').

The situation is different in a Criminal court where admissability is a big issue.

The only civil one I can think of off the top of my head would be if you sued the government and they said the evidence was 'classified for national security' but even that is a question of evidence being un-obtainable not inadmissable.

I've had a flick through The White Book (the official publication of the CPR) and I can't see anything to prevent it's admissability.

One of the founding tennants of the CPR was to clarify civil evidence rules and Lord Wolfe did this by saying "all evidence is admissable" on the basis that there is no jury and judges are professional enough to deal with everything.

Recorded evidence is certainly admissable. I've used it in court myself.

So then comes the question of why your insurance company says no. I can think of the following answers:
1) You're not talking to a lawyer.
2) The person you are talking to can not be arsed to make the necessary copies of the recording (especially from a phone)
3) they're thinking about evidence rules pre-CPR
4) They have misunderstood the Data-Protection and Freedom of Information Acts.

EDIT: Now the judge might hear the recording and still find against you. Defence counsel would certainly argue that he was under stress/it was a instinctual reaction/blah blah blah.

But it is certainly admissable.
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Unread 5 May 2006, 12:47   #39
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
To be honest it's not a question of why is it admissable. It's a question of why it might be inadmissable.

Since the institution of the Wolfe Reforms and the Civil Procedure Rules
And thank god for those!!!
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Unread 5 May 2006, 15:53   #40
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Yahwe I love you.


<3
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Unread 5 May 2006, 16:31   #41
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Lord Wolfe
Woolf.


Sorry dude, the rest of your post is superb, pos-repped you for it. But the pedant in me compelled me to make this post.
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Unread 6 May 2006, 00:48   #42
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Woolf.


Sorry dude, the rest of your post is superb, pos-repped you for it. But the pedant in me compelled me to make this post.

is that how harry spells it?

well i never

EDIT: on the plus side at least http://killdevilhill.com/politicscha...f=52&i=88&t=88 must mean someone else.

A good result alround
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Unread 6 May 2006, 02:59   #43
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

The more one* uses the word "skank" the more it loses it's effectiveness with overuse (or something).
























*lawl i used the word "one" like what the Queen (not Michael Barrymore) uses it
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Unread 8 May 2006, 09:32   #44
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Just to update you dudes.


I phoned them up about 20 minutes ago (9am ish) and was put through to the 'legal department' who deal with the legality of claim etc.

Was answered after about a minute of waiting and the guy said 'i understand you talked to one of my collegues and he told you that the recording you have is inadmissable but you have spoken to a lawyer who has told you it is so if you want to send the transcript over we can send it on to the other insurance company....

I then double checked that it was infact useable now and mentioned that 'i was informed that its possible the guy i was speaking to was thinking of i believe it was called the wolfe reforms of 2000 and Civil procedure rules which state any evidence can be used in court because it is a civil not criminal action.

I made him confirm that it was infact admissable and told him i would be sending him the transcript, photos of the damage and a cd with the audio on it.



I was amazed they didnt even try to counter it with any kind of arguement tbh.

However once again, thanks yahwe
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Unread 8 May 2006, 11:31   #45
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Did you make a copy of the tape, before sending it off?
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Unread 8 May 2006, 12:05   #46
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

A digital camera recored it so its a wmv file.

Suffice to say i have multiple copies.
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Unread 8 May 2006, 12:11   #47
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Does the person who crashed into you know that the recording exists?
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Unread 8 May 2006, 12:31   #48
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
I was amazed they didnt even try to counter it with any kind of arguement tbh.
the residents of GD are the only people who ever disagree with my legal advice ...

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Unread 8 May 2006, 12:44   #49
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Does the person who crashed into you know that the recording exists?

Well dad phoned him up as i was working and too busy to inform him of a rough estimate of costs and to see if he wanted to go through insurance or deal with it differently. when he found out the rough cost he had some kind of spaz attack and began getting agressive and talking about mobile phoens and speeding.

Dad rang me to say 'were you on your mobile phone? were you speeding??'

i told him i wasnt and i wasnt on my mobile (even if i was i dont see how i could see) Dad said that its going to get messy because hes done a u turn and has changed his mind. He was saying ti was all my fault and that i was to blame. I informed dad that i had a recording of him saying it 4 or 5 times that it was totally his fault as he hadnt checked his mirrors before pulling out or looked over his shoulder.


He phoned him up later and the guy said 'your son was on a handsfree kit' (bullshit). Dad said 'but you admitted liability at the scene'....he said 'it was his fault not mine.'

Dad then informed him that i had 'accidently' taped the entire conversation and had him on it saying several times it was his fault.

He then got even more irate and blabbed on about how i was driving like a loon etc etc etc


Its all bullshit and the guys insurance company will pay out. I just have to get all the work authorised now.

Even his pathetic attempts at covering himself are flawed and riddled with problems. If he "saw me on a mobile phone---no wait....handsfree kit(?!) and he saw that i was speeding and he saw that i was flashing my lights....
why....and this is the best bit... why did he pull out?

Even tho his retarded fabrication is all a load of shit he chose the worst possible excuse to try and cover up that it was his fault. "I saw him but pulled out anyway"....

retard

1900 quid to do the repair for anyone interested.
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Unread 8 May 2006, 13:11   #50
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Re: Yahwe or UK Legal folk

Pricks like that shouldnt be on the road.
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