User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 03:40   #51
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,306
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

I'm actually confused as to how you could actually play zik and keep a viable fleet.

The only thing I do know is that it will probably involve a lot of dists and having a bunch of friends/lackies to defend/escort you :\
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 06:17   #52
Fiery
PA Team
 
Fiery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 866
Fiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud ofFiery has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-COM
After 2 days sign up and looking around in galaxies, looks like the ziks emigrated to etd.

And as a sense of moral: Last round the PA team galaxy 1:1 (Yeah I know dont reveal coordinates..) started with around 60% ziks.
Now there are 0% zik and 58% etd (7/12).

With around 5% ziks the caths should be boosted and the xans suppressed.
Cath main dinner course is xans, and with lot less ziks usually going after them, specially ingal..
You would be incorrect.
Fiery is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 11:29   #53
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koks
Well reading around and irc chat seems to show the general consensis on the matter is against the zik die/steal 1:1.

Ziks abit like playing poker.. you need skill and luck..
with the new changes its abit like taking cards away
general consensus isnt a validation of the truth of a statement, it only proves that the majority agrees on the statement
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 13:12   #54
Jester
Pedantic hypocrite
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Back and to the left
Posts: 1,488
Jester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
general consensus isnt a validation of the truth of a statement, it only proves that the majority agrees on the statement
I think you're being a bit defensive here. He said he thought the general consensus was against the zik dying when they steal. Despite eneral consensus being the best validation of truth we have*, his statement doesn't really try to claim anything. He's not saying 'it's a bad idea', just that the people he speaks to are against it.

Why the implied argument is that it's bad and should be changed back, you're jumping to the conclusion that he's actually saying this as opposed to "I don't like it, my friends don't like it, I predict it's going to go bad, but you PAteam folks are in charge so let's see how it goes".

* c.f. peer review.
__________________
I always wanted to be a dancer, but I could never get the shit off my shoes
.......
Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 13:19   #55
Sjor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oktoberfest :)
Posts: 397
Sjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

think if it were 1:2 it would be ok for some to play
bashed planet gets salvage and u still can gain value
__________________
-------------------------------------------------
Alliances: Rock, FanG, Angels, Vengeance
Communities, BG's: OuZo, gôsu, Kralizec, Critters, Xraid

Prod to not have been in many alliances
Sjor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 18:44   #56
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Beta is still going on, you could try adjusting the stolen/killed ratio.
I recon somewhere between 1.5 : 1 and 2 : 1 would make it playable for ziks.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 19:23   #57
gzambo
Fightin-irish for life
 
gzambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,169
gzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant future
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

while i agree with zik's losing ships when they steal i do feel on a 1:1 basis is too harsh i agree with Gio2k that the ration should be adjusted
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish

"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
gzambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 20:25   #58
DunkelGraf
Drunken Boozer
 
DunkelGraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
DunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to beholdDunkelGraf is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Imagine a zik having a big ammount of roids and and huge ammount of ship x anti-y (steal) and there is some greedy guy with type y attackfleet that really wants those roids. now he gets some multiaccount or friends with a freeaccounts sending shiptype y 1 tick before himself so that poor zik looses all his anti-y just by stealing ships and that guy can land 1 tick after....
will this happen aswell due to zik stealing/loosing 1:1?

Edit: Prost!
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!

! [ToT]-KC !

Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
DunkelGraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2007, 20:29   #59
Jester
Pedantic hypocrite
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Back and to the left
Posts: 1,488
Jester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond reputeJester has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Beta is still going on, you could try adjusting the stolen/killed ratio.
I recon somewhere between 1.5 : 1 and 2 : 1 would make it playable for ziks.
Or you could shut up and try playing the game as it is designed.
__________________
I always wanted to be a dancer, but I could never get the shit off my shoes
.......
Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 00:09   #60
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

I am not playing zik anyways. However, when a race is weakened to the point of being unplayable you will always get the inevitable mid round whine / hate threads.
On the other hand, what's the point of beta rounds, if it's not for testing the balance of races, now even more so than before, since we even got a new race.
I am in favor of ziks being brought down a couple of notches, i just don't want them being neutered like caths were in that round (14?). If in the end, it turns out that the best zik steal / die ratio is indeed 1:1, then at least you can say you tried other options in the beta.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 02:03   #61
Troll
DLR HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 179
Troll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

It would appear Zikonians have fallen victim to a change in the way the games base structure works. Now that alliance score is going to be value based (Or so I am told) and with the fear of Zikonian fleet catches prevailing with the new cluster eta scheme. It is understandable that the PA team is seeking ways of plugging this new potential problem. However looking over the stats I have seen they have failed to undo the previous restrictions that Zikonians have endured in previous rounds as ways to restrain the power of stealing. I am referring to Zikonians not having a ship that can steal it’s own class of ship. With the new rules demanding a 1 to 1 value trade off Zikonians are going to need there roid fleets to have a chance at stealing ships that will continue to serve as exactly that a roid fleet. It will be crippling to attack someone and then steal ships that are next to useless to you because you have not stolen any of that classes pods to be able to use them effectively, all well lossing valuable ships from your attack fleet. It does not take a brain surgeon to see that this is fundamentally flawed. Early in the round it could be devastating to loss half your attack fleet on ships that are next to useless for you and your alliance. This means after each attack that nets ships your faced with a situation that’s more like having slept in and landed a horrible attack.

So in conclusion if the pod classes for Zikonians are going to be DE and CR for example then they should have a DE that steals DE or a CR that steals CR. The after deciding which pod class will have the self feeding ship the secondary class should have a ship that feeds the main pod fleet as well such as CR > DE or DE > CR. This would give Zikonians one decent effective roiding fleet that can self replenish after an attack and also allow the secondary roid fleet to grow the main fleet although at the same time becoming weak after a successful attack.

I think this would be a fair trade off to the 1 to 1 value rule.
Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 02:11   #62
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

The proposed change to the alliance ranking system has been reversed. It's still based on score.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 02:16   #63
Troll
DLR HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 179
Troll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Ahh well. Then I change my agrument. I want to steal ships again and not loss anything. I was trying to be nice but now I am pissed, whats the reason for the drastic change then.
Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 02:26   #64
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

It was either this or free strawberry jam for everyone and unfortunately the eastern United States strawberry crop has experienced a very harsh winter.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 02:28   #65
Troll
DLR HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 179
Troll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

I don't like Jam and I def don't like stealers dying 1 to 1
Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 04:06   #66
voodoo
a pain
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: .ro
Posts: 260
voodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

nobody does. well some do. a couple of them. and they think so highly of themselves, that they are prepared to turn a blind eye to all the complaints received. and all the whining. and all the explaining. i suggest that our friends at ?PAteam?* doing the stats make this rounds stats by themselves, for themselves so they can have a great time playing against eachother for 2 months.

1:1 is just bad mkay? at least 1,5 if not 2 should be ok.

*edit: rumour had it the asc ppl did the stats. it would indeed be best not to assume rumours to be true. i stand corrected.
__________________
needles and pins

Last edited by voodoo; 23 Jan 2007 at 19:12.
voodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 06:32   #67
Travler
Bona Fide Jesus Freak
 
Travler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
Travler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to all
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It was either this or free strawberry jam for everyone and unfortunately the eastern United States strawberry crop has experienced a very harsh winter.
Thats a fashist lie. The winter has been very mild (at least until the recent ice storms). The strawberry crop has never been better. I say free jam for everyone and bring back the true advantage of zik.....stealing and not dying.
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13
Travler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 13:43   #68
Zimra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
Zimra is a splendid one to beholdZimra is a splendid one to beholdZimra is a splendid one to beholdZimra is a splendid one to beholdZimra is a splendid one to beholdZimra is a splendid one to beholdZimra is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
It was either this or free strawberry jam for everyone and unfortunately the eastern United States strawberry crop has experienced a very harsh winter.
LOL, god I love that guy.

I don't think the Zik changes are that bad. If they are intended to be a race to be played by very skillful people, and not everyone in general (as the guy from PAteam suggested, I don't know if this is the real goal or not) then it makes sense to make them harder. I know lots of people who make games 20 times more difficult on purpose.

For example, if anyone wants one, take Everquest 2. Some people will play it and never group, never buy weapons from a broker, never buy skill upgrades unless they find one randomly, fight only Heroic monsters if they can, and so on, carry all their gold on them so if they get PvPed they lose a lot of it.

Of course I know lots of people enjoyed playing Zik anyway, and I'm sure people still will. I'm just saying if the race really is intended to be played just by the ultra-skilled then this would be a move in the right direction, all else aside.
__________________
[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
Zimra is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 14:09   #69
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 821
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
nobody does. well some do. a couple of them. and they think so highly of themselves, that they are prepared to turn a blind eye to all the complaints received. and all the whining. and all the explaining.
Those of us who are happy with Ziks being "nerfed" don't feel he need to make posts saying how happy we are. That's the nature of forums - the majority of posts are made by the (few) people who are unhappy.

For the record, I feel that stealing has been a major problem for many rounds. It has encouraged bashing, farming (of inactives) and outright cheating. "Well played" to those who have finally decided to do something about it.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Green Shoots of Recovery R68 | Another Round of Same Old R69 | The End of The Line R70
Keepers of The House R71 | The Way of His Saints R72 | Certain of Nothing R73
The Dance of Idiots R74 | Back of Beyond R75 | Mentor of Arisia R76
Certainty of Indecision 7:4:4 R77 | Chamber of Mazarbul 4:2:6 R78 | Defence of the Realm 7:9:3 R79
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 14:43   #70
voodoo
a pain
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: .ro
Posts: 260
voodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

either comment on the whole post or dont comment at all.dont extract fragments to prove your point.
what i said wasnt that zik should be left as they were, but that 1:1 is bad. you do realise there is a difference don't you?
__________________
needles and pins
voodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 15:33   #71
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
nobody does. well some do. a couple of them. and they think so highly of themselves, that they are prepared to turn a blind eye to all the complaints received. and all the whining. and all the explaining. i suggest that our friends at "you know where" (hint: it starts with a and ends with scendancy) doing the stats make this rounds stats by themselves, for themselves so they can have a great time playing against eachother for 2 months.

1:1 is just bad mkay? at least 1,5 if not 2 should be ok.
This is so wrong. Most people in Ascendancy are not particularly pleased with the stats as they are. I think about 80% of Ascendancy members went Zik last round, and most of us were planning to do so again this round (Zik with proper stealing is simply more fun than any other race). We are the very last people who would suggest removing unlimited stealing. In fact, the stats changes have basically eliminated our preferred strategy.

Can you explain why you thought that we had anything to do with the stats?
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 15:53   #72
Cannon_Fodder
Registered User
 
Cannon_Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,175
Cannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

He probably thinks we made zik suck, then at the last minute PAteam will change zik back and we'll be the only ziks enabling us to rule the universe. Either that or he's a muppet.
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
Cannon_Fodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 15:56   #73
Cannon_Fodder
Registered User
 
Cannon_Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,175
Cannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjor
yeah they had a nice chance against 15k cors what an average zik had
I don't remember much corsair def against me since I had several k tarants.
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
Cannon_Fodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 16:00   #74
qebab
The Original Carebear
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
qebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
...
I thought Paisley was making the stats?
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
qebab is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 16:38   #75
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon_Fodder
I don't remember much corsair def against me since I had several k tarants.
Nope, they just defended against you with Bombers and Dragons instead
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 17:15   #76
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,990
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon_Fodder
I don't remember much corsair def against me since I had several k tarants.
I don't remember anyone landing tarants against my corsairs as I had some hundred thousand corsairs. The bigger fish theory. You didn't get roided much having invested a lot of your fleet into the rather inefficient tarantula?
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 18:02   #77
ohatlen
Im Hatlon \ SEXLON
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 8
ohatlen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Zik are shit with this new twist
I can see some people wanting to tone them down, but why kill ziks:s
__________________
>))):>
ohatlen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 18:09   #78
Mighteh
Your typical Troll
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 414
Mighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these partsMighteh is infamous around these parts
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

well, have anyone seen new set of stats ? ziks actual kill power is termendous.
Much higher then that of a xan (almost twice). given, their init is 20 but they are scary now
__________________
[Destiny] awaits, ex-[Omen]
Nothing on the top
but the bucket and the mop
And an illustrated book about birds
See alot up there
But dont be scared
who needs action, when you got words....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbg
reading this line is explicit acceptance of my superiority over you
Mighteh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 18:28   #79
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Zik damage is... interesting. It makes attacking a Zik somewhat risky, because if any substantial number of Zik ships fire, your attack fleet is going to be cut to shreds. Of course, since Zik initiative is so high it should be possible for an attacker to clear out any possible defence before it fires, but it's certainly a risky proposition.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 19:32   #80
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 821
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
either comment on the whole post or dont comment at all.dont extract fragments to prove your point.
what i said wasnt that zik should be left as they were, but that 1:1 is bad. you do realise there is a difference don't you?
First rule of posting - quote enough of the original post as is needed to provide context. If I'd wanted to address your whole post I would have done so - I chose to address your suggestion that
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
nobody does. well some do. a couple of them. and they think so highly of themselves, that they are prepared to turn a blind eye to all the complaints received. and all the whining. and all the explaining.
I also maintain that any stealing which results in value gain is open to abuse.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Green Shoots of Recovery R68 | Another Round of Same Old R69 | The End of The Line R70
Keepers of The House R71 | The Way of His Saints R72 | Certain of Nothing R73
The Dance of Idiots R74 | Back of Beyond R75 | Mentor of Arisia R76
Certainty of Indecision 7:4:4 R77 | Chamber of Mazarbul 4:2:6 R78 | Defence of the Realm 7:9:3 R79
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 20:44   #81
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

everything is open to abuse.
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 20:53   #82
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I also maintain that any stealing which results in value gain is open to abuse.
MY GOD! HE'S FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT! IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY ATTACK OR DEFEND SOMEONE, YOU GO UP IN SCORE AND PROBABLY VALUE!





Isn't that the entire idea of Planetarion?
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 21:59   #83
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 821
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

LOL

Nice overreaction there.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Green Shoots of Recovery R68 | Another Round of Same Old R69 | The End of The Line R70
Keepers of The House R71 | The Way of His Saints R72 | Certain of Nothing R73
The Dance of Idiots R74 | Back of Beyond R75 | Mentor of Arisia R76
Certainty of Indecision 7:4:4 R77 | Chamber of Mazarbul 4:2:6 R78 | Defence of the Realm 7:9:3 R79
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Jan 2007, 23:32   #84
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I also maintain that any stealing which results in value gain is open to abuse.
Maintain what you like. If you have any evidence of abuse, you can provide that evidence to the multihunters. I'm going to guess that your next post will involve explaining how you have already done so on numerous occasions and 'nothing was done about it', so I'll address that point now: there is 'abuse' which involves actual violation of the game rules, which the multihunters are normally quite strict about. Sure, they can't catch every cheat, but they do seem to catch most of them, and surely PA team can't base the game mechanics around the existence of a small, undetected number of alleged 'abusers', can they? A simple calculation can be made here: does the benefit had from removing an unquantified number of 'abusive' players from the game outweigh the cost of removing a legitimately enjoyable means of playing the game?

Of course, you may be employing an entirely different definition of the term 'abuse', one which more accurately refers to 'use of game features to gain an advantage', one such feature being stealing. By definition, this cannot really be 'abuse' if the features in question were being used within the rules, and the term is employed merely for its emotive qualities. I suspect that this is what you are referring to; you don't like stealing, because (I assume) you believe it to be unfair in some way, and are therefore prone to regard those playing Zik well as 'abusing' the game (by doing well via 'unfair' means).

By all means, criticise the past Zik stats for being overpowered if you believe that they were. But to say that the fact that some unidentified people might be cheating, and that justifies the removal of a game feature which plenty of people enjoy legitimately, is in my opinion entirely wrong.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 00:43   #85
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 821
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
For the record, I feel that stealing has been a major problem for many rounds. It has encouraged bashing, farming (of inactives) and outright cheating. "Well played" to those who have finally decided to do something about it.
This was the point I made - I almost wish I hadn't bothered. I suppose I shouldn't have expected it to be well received in a thread which has been dominated by the pro-Zik faction.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Green Shoots of Recovery R68 | Another Round of Same Old R69 | The End of The Line R70
Keepers of The House R71 | The Way of His Saints R72 | Certain of Nothing R73
The Dance of Idiots R74 | Back of Beyond R75 | Mentor of Arisia R76
Certainty of Indecision 7:4:4 R77 | Chamber of Mazarbul 4:2:6 R78 | Defence of the Realm 7:9:3 R79
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 01:15   #86
Troll
DLR HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 179
Troll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to beholdTroll is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

we prefer Zikonian Liberation Front
Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 02:08   #87
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 821
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

LOL

Nice one.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Green Shoots of Recovery R68 | Another Round of Same Old R69 | The End of The Line R70
Keepers of The House R71 | The Way of His Saints R72 | Certain of Nothing R73
The Dance of Idiots R74 | Back of Beyond R75 | Mentor of Arisia R76
Certainty of Indecision 7:4:4 R77 | Chamber of Mazarbul 4:2:6 R78 | Defence of the Realm 7:9:3 R79
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 02:50   #88
Bugsby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 17
Bugsby is just really niceBugsby is just really niceBugsby is just really niceBugsby is just really niceBugsby is just really nice
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

After a lot of deliberation, I am playing Zik this round (for the first time).

As to the allegations that Zik will be unblanced this round... well, that's just wrong. If anything, they'll be more balanced. This puts Ziks directly on par with the other races. When Terrans (for example) fire at an attacker, the attacker loses value while the Terrans neither gain nor lose. Now it's just working the same way for Ziks... they neither gain nor lose value by killing enemy ships. In fact, this is an added advantage for the Ziks. Because the ships that are lost will be the ATTACKERS ships, the defender will get less salvage than if you were killing his ships.

But isn't stealing supposed to be the Zik racial advantage? How is it an advantage now? Well, Ziks can get diverse fleets. The first thing I am going to do as Zik is build a lot of Buccs and start going after Cats who are just starting to build up a CR fleet. I'll lose Buccs, but roaches in the Zik CR fleet will make it a whole lot tougher than it currently is. If I am able to gain some of every type of DE and CR in the game, my roiding fleets are going to be very tough to deal with. Of course, Zik have always had that ability. So they keep their racial advantage.

But what about them still having such a high initiative? Two things make up for that. First, they steal before pods, so steal ships can actually function as effective defense, something that has never happened before. Second, the Zik efficiencies are crazy. They have the best D/C in the game, and an A/C second to only the Terrans. Look at the Bucc: A/C 63, D/C 75. That's crazy.

Ziks are really only going to be hurt in three ways. First, they can't get an exponential growth going for their fleets. That's good - that's balanced. Ziks always surged late-round with their massive stealing abilities, and that has been cut down. Second, FCs are less practical and less profitable. I'm a fan of that as well. I've always though FCs are pretty cheap, and besides, I am never awake at the time you would have to launch an FC. People can disagree with me on this one, but I don't think it's a bad change. And third, your fleet composition can get messed up with steals. If I capture a whole bunch of roaches by using ALL my Buccs, for example, I am out of anti-CR. And that's a bad thing. The solution to this one is just a bit of prudence in fleet composition and making sure you never put yourself in that kind of situation.

The final thing that's making me play Zik is that their fleet matches up well with most other fleets just in terms of what attacks what. It's not perfect - every race has its weaknesses, but looking at the ship stats, I'd much rather play Zik than, say, Xan.

It's not going to be easy, but I think I can get a pretty decent round out of Ziks this time. I guess we'll see.
Bugsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 07:28   #89
Pilgrim
Bline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Texas, US
Posts: 233
Pilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these partsPilgrim is infamous around these parts
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm rather worried about everyone presuming zik are totally shit now and getting more incoming than I can shake a stick at. Regardless I wouldn't advise it for a new player, at least until we see how it plays out.
By which time it will be round 21 and the stats will change yet again to something just as crap
Pilgrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 10:38   #90
ComradeRob
wasted
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
ComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriendComradeRob needs a job and a girlfriend
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
This was the point I made - I almost wish I hadn't bothered. I suppose I shouldn't have expected it to be well received in a thread which has been dominated by the pro-Zik faction.
So any playing style you dislike is 'abuse', and any disagreement with your point of view comes from a conspiratorial 'faction'...

Besides, if you think 'bashing' was bad in the past, I am very curious to know what effect you expect to see from the current stats. There are now zero-loss-before-firing stealing possibilities (for example, Rogues steal FI but not FI can fire at a Rogue). The damage efficiency is also way up on anything Zik (or any race) has had in the past. If you're unlucky enough to get into combat with a Zik, you're going to take heavy losses. Of course, the Zik will lose a lot too, and will probably want to avoid those risky, complex situations where they might end up stealing the wrong kind of ships. Best to stick to fleet catches and hitting inactives whose fleet composition can be more easily guaranteed...

I suspect that Zik will be a major factor in deterring large alliance battles, simply because they pack far too much of a punch for their cost. It is, to an extent, mutually assured destruction: the Zik loses as much as he gains, and more often than not will be left with a bunch of ships much less useful than the ones he started with, whilst the Zik's opponent will take horrendous losses. The ultimate result is that neither side is happy - the consequence of the 'levelling down' approach to 'balance'.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”

Last edited by ComradeRob; 24 Jan 2007 at 10:46.
ComradeRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Jan 2007, 12:38   #91
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

The one problem I'd have is that zik now get punished for being attacked by idiots. If somebody decides to suicide all his de onto my planet, I'm either going to have to let him get away with it or my thief fleet is going to get quartered. This is just me taking a slightly different approach to rob's last point.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Jan 2007, 09:58   #92
Sjor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oktoberfest :)
Posts: 397
Sjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to beholdSjor is a splendid one to behold
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The one problem I'd have is that zik now get punished for being attacked by idiots. If somebody decides to suicide all his de onto my planet, I'm either going to have to let him get away with it or my thief fleet is going to get quartered. This is just me taking a slightly different approach to rob's last point.
you are right
now u need def where in past u said dont def me ill handle him alone
Zik now need a lot of more def than they used to get in past to "remove" the useless ships

stats are final now so here we go
__________________
-------------------------------------------------
Alliances: Rock, FanG, Angels, Vengeance
Communities, BG's: OuZo, gôsu, Kralizec, Critters, Xraid

Prod to not have been in many alliances
Sjor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Jan 2007, 21:24   #93
voodoo
a pain
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: .ro
Posts: 260
voodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond reputevoodoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

iacta alea est.
let's see what comes from it.
i am eagerly waiting for JBG's views on the "leetness" of zik this round, how he will play it and make a "profit", or anybody else for that matter who plays zik and still manages to get a decent rank.

good luck to us all
__________________
needles and pins
voodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 17:58   #94
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,410
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

I guess I'm long overdue a post on this thread (especially as the round already started...)

Firstly, whilst technically Zik steal has a value loss 1:1 for the ships it's killing, in practice that's the upper limit. Careful Ziks can get near to a 2:1 value ratio (e.g. Marauder vs Xan Fr).

Steal works as follows:

(at each init) the steal damage for each class is calculated.

Each class is looped through checking for damage to that class.
If there's damage to the class, it finds all the targets in that class that can be fired at. For each target, it works out how many should be stolen, and allocates them to the relevant fleet.

Then it works out how much (value for value) the stealing ships of each fleet should die for this.

Then, once it's FINISHED all classes, it goes through the list of ships that should steal, and kills up to however many should be killed.


Examples
This means that in combats with Illusions and Pirates on one side (Fleet A), and Rogues and Buccaneers on the other side (Fleet B), we have:

Rogues steal Illusions. Pirates steal Rogues. Bucs steal Pirates.
if you tweak the numbers, then all the Illusions get stolen, all the Rogues get stolen, all the Pirates get stolen, and the Bucs die because they were stealing.

This leaves Fleet A with Rogues and Fleet B with Illusions and Pirates (and maybe a few left over Bucs). Whichever fleet is defending gets salvage from the dead Bucs only (all the other ships were stolen, not killed).

This way, stealing "chains" on the same init only really lose out once.

Also, it means if you're stealing more value than you have then you don't lose at a 1:1 value ratio:

For example, a fleet of 10 Buccaneers steals 9 Tarantulas. 165k is stealing 252k, which is an extra 52% or so of it's value.


This is a bit confusing, and I apoligise, but the key idea is that all the stealing is worked out and the ships to die are noted down, and then almost after the stealing is occured, as many ships as possible die out of those that should (rounded down).

Because it's rounded down, in the beta we did see an "invincible rogue" that used to steal a few fighters and not die, because it didn't steal enough value to kill itself

Note: italics are changes from the original post because I mentioned the wrong fi
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU

Last edited by Appocomaster; 27 Jan 2007 at 19:57.
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 18:16   #95
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,990
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

This isn't making any sense.

So, zikonians are stealing not 1:1 VALUE but 1:1 DAMAGE/ARMOR?

You know, this is the kind of shit you announce before the ticker starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual
Steal ships die at a 1:1 value (resource for resource) when stealing other ships.
It still makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by appocomaster
165k is stealing 252k
So, ships die at 1:1 value, ceteris paribus, it's impossible for 165k to steal > 165k, because 1*165k = 165k, not >165k. How can you steal more value if you die on rate of 1:1 value?
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 18:18   #96
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,410
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

No, it dies at (up to) 1:1 value. If you take no / light losses, you can use the fact that Zik has in general a higher damage/cost than most ships do armour/cost to get a slight edge on that 1:1 value cost though.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 18:21   #97
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,990
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Erm.

Uhm? If a ship costing 100k can steal worth 100k, and, when 100k has stolen 100k, it dies, what? Excuse me. You're not making any sense to me. So, if you have DAMAGE PER VALUE X, and your target has ARMOR PER VALUE 50, you get 200%? That's not stealing 1:1 value now is it? Because proportional damage and armor have little to do with real ship cost. For what I've read everywhere, it says

If you steal 100k resources worth tarantulas, 100k resources worth buccaneers die.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 18:33   #98
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,990
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

A beta battlereport of the invincible rogues. How does all this work in practise? In manual, it says 1:1 value (resource for resource).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual
Steal ships die at a 1:1 value (resource for resource) when stealing other ships.
YOU KNOW WHAT
I'm going to be negrepped, deleted, banned, and maimed for posting this

BUT


SUCK COCK

Last edited by Tietäjä; 27 Jan 2007 at 18:45.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 18:40   #99
Shoshuro
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 134
Shoshuro is just really niceShoshuro is just really niceShoshuro is just really niceShoshuro is just really niceShoshuro is just really nice
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

rofl

__________________
Omen
Shoshuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Jan 2007, 18:46   #100
Cannon_Fodder
Registered User
 
Cannon_Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,175
Cannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: zik dying 1:1 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Nope, they just defended against you with Bombers and Dragons instead
Only got defended against with dragons on the last day when i suicided

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
I don't remember anyone landing tarants against my corsairs as I had some hundred thousand corsairs. The bigger fish theory. You didn't get roided much having invested a lot of your fleet into the rather inefficient tarantula?
Welcome to stating the obvious 101.

There weren't many tarant fleets around so its hardly suprising none landed on you.

I was cat, you were zik. Unless you were utter shit, you had more value than I did.

Did I get roided much? No I went cath to avoid being picked first in target pickings and waved to death as a result.
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
Cannon_Fodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018