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Unread 15 Jul 2009, 17:21   #51
Heartless
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
Does anyone not remember what happened when there was an ETA bonus for attacking in cluster? The "unlucky" planets in each cluster became farms for the rest.

Exactly the same thing will happen in your proposed new system. All non-allied players will be farmed mercilessly for "quick, easy roids".

The only long-distance attacks will be during real wars - and these will become even rarer than they are today because the long-distance attacks will be less profitable than local farming.

The danger that I fear the most from these proposals is that the "race" for #1 (be that alliance or individual) will be won by those who can out-roid (or out-farm) everyone else.
But where is that different from today?

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
There are other dangers, of course. Some have been touched on by previous posters. First amongst these is the danger that new players will have even less (positive) interaction with other players. With the present system there is a galaxy which can only benefit by encouraging the player to join in and be active (as long as they don't exile first and ask questions later). The new system will allow new players to be seen as "food" by everyone in their local area.

Just my two penn'orth - for what it's worth.
Are you people actually reading my argument on this? Galaxies are limiting the communication market, unnecessarily LIMITING new people's chances to find useful active people that are willed to cooperate, or even communicate. Seriously, where do you fail to understand that?
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Unread 16 Jul 2009, 03:20   #52
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Re: Remove Galaxies

It needs more changes to justify it.

Putting players in a universe where travel varies according to distance is likely to reduce the number of targets. It's just going to make the game more complex with different players having different ETAs to target planets. Alliance defence calls would get far more complicated, as you'd have to ask players who are close enough with ships which are fast enough instead of assuming that everyone has the same ETA.

It seems more like an idea towards a long term evolution of the game (PAX or PA:NEXT) rather than just something which could be applied to the existing game in a single update. It needs other game features being expanded on to make a more complex universe worthwhile.
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Unread 16 Jul 2009, 13:14   #53
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
It needs more changes to justify it.
Please keep on elaborating! So far you have not really discussed any real issues at hand, instead you are just trying to avoid a discussion about this (why?).

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Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
Putting players in a universe where travel varies according to distance is likely to reduce the number of targets. It's just going to make the game more complex with different players having different ETAs to target planets. Alliance defence calls would get far more complicated, as you'd have to ask players who are close enough with ships which are fast enough instead of assuming that everyone has the same ETA.
Don't underestimate the user. With PAX there was so much so-called 'complexity' removed that the game got even more one-dimensional than it already was, so some of it was reverted (multi-targetting, anyone?). And honestly, where does 'further away = taking longer to travel' sound complex? It's a very natural physical law that exists (at least) in this universe.

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It seems more like an idea towards a long term evolution of the game (PAX or PA:NEXT) rather than just something which could be applied to the existing game in a single update. It needs other game features being expanded on to make a more complex universe worthwhile.
I am not necessarily disagreeing with the point of removing galaxies having to be part of a longterm evolution. However, this sounds like you think this discussion is worthless without having such a campaign - which I would disagree upon.
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Unread 16 Jul 2009, 15:40   #54
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
But where is that different from today?
As things are today there is no ETA advantage to hitting any planet - and there is a (small) group of players that can't hit you at all. Your proposal will make hitting closer planets more attractive than hitting those further away. This isn't really difficult to understand - why are you pretending that you can't see it?

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Are you people actually reading my argument on this? Galaxies are limiting the communication market, unnecessarily LIMITING new people's chances to find useful active people that are willed to cooperate, or even communicate. Seriously, where do you fail to understand that?
I disagree - even after reading your argument. You're listing the potential benefits of your proposal without considering the (inevitable) disadvantages. The "casual" player will form no relationships and will be a potential target for the whole universe - instead of being encouraged to communicate with his galaxy - who cannot attack him and therefore have some (slight) incentive to involve him in the game.
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Unread 16 Jul 2009, 16:09   #55
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
The "casual" player will form no relationships and will be a potential target for the whole universe - instead of being encouraged to communicate with his galaxy - who cannot attack him and therefore have some (slight) incentive to involve him in the game.
The planets immediately adjacent to him have an incentive to push him to activity for exactly the same reason as a gal does; and there is no reason that attacking cant be prevented or discouraged in your immediate neighborhood; indeed if ppl cant be exiled (what would they be exiled from if there isnt a gal) there would be more incentive to co-operate than there is now as so many gals just get m8s to farm the nub for 48hours if he has any roids then boot. Heartless' suggestion just adds more levels of possibility.
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Unread 16 Jul 2009, 16:55   #56
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
The "casual" player will form no relationships
Then that is not the kind of player that'll ever have fun in PA . The strongest point of this game always has been cooperating with other people. If they're not willing to do that, then nothing short of a complete overhaul of the game (call it Simtarion, sell it to Maxis) will keep them here. This proposal is not meant to make the game playable for people who want to play alone, it's meant to make the game playable for people who want to play together. That's all our suggestion is meant to do, make it easier to play with other people.

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
instead of being encouraged to communicate with his galaxy - who cannot attack him and therefore have some (slight) incentive to involve him in the game.
But they don't. New players often don't communicate with their galaxies, nor do galaxies attempt to involve new players in the game. By making galaxy spots a rarity, you're encouraging veterans to exile badly performing planets. If cooperation isn't (as) limited, this won't happen, firstly because there is no reason for exiling to continue existing and secondly because it's not detrimental to veterans to help new players.

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Heartless' suggestion just adds more levels of possibility.
Yes.

In no way am I claiming that implementing this suggestion will make PA a haven for newbies. It just gives them a bigger pool of people to communicate with.
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Unread 17 Jul 2009, 12:47   #57
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
I am not necessarily disagreeing with the point of removing galaxies having to be part of a longterm evolution. However, this sounds like you think this discussion is worthless without having such a campaign - which I would disagree upon.
Because it's a rather heavy change which doesn't necessarily add that many features (apart from the added complexity), however the potential for additional features after it are far more interesting.
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Unread 18 Jul 2009, 02:02   #58
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Then that is not the kind of player that'll ever have fun in PA . The strongest point of this game always has been cooperating with other people. If they're not willing to do that, then nothing short of a complete overhaul of the game (call it Simtarion, sell it to Maxis) will keep them here. This proposal is not meant to make the game playable for people who want to play alone, it's meant to make the game playable for people who want to play together. That's all our suggestion is meant to do, make it easier to play with other people.


But they don't. New players often don't communicate with their galaxies, nor do galaxies attempt to involve new players in the game. By making galaxy spots a rarity, you're encouraging veterans to exile badly performing planets. If cooperation isn't (as) limited, this won't happen, firstly because there is no reason for exiling to continue existing and secondly because it's not detrimental to veterans to help new players.


Yes.

In no way am I claiming that implementing this suggestion will make PA a haven for newbies. It just gives them a bigger pool of people to communicate with.
I don't believe that removing galaxies will have the effects that are being suggested. I do agree that communication with others is vital - the point I was (and still am) trying to make is that removing galaxies will make this communication less likely.

I also agree that, with these proposals, new players will no longer need to be exiled - however, I think that they'll be farmed instead. Not exactly an improvement.
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Unread 18 Jul 2009, 12:21   #59
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Then that is not the kind of player that'll ever have fun in PA . The strongest point of this game always has been cooperating with other people. If they're not willing to do that, then nothing short of a complete overhaul of the game (call it Simtarion, sell it to Maxis) will keep them here. This proposal is not meant to make the game playable for people who want to play alone, it's meant to make the game playable for people who want to play together. That's all our suggestion is meant to do, make it easier to play with other people.


But they don't. New players often don't communicate with their galaxies, nor do galaxies attempt to involve new players in the game. By making galaxy spots a rarity, you're encouraging veterans to exile badly performing planets. If cooperation isn't (as) limited, this won't happen, firstly because there is no reason for exiling to continue existing and secondly because it's not detrimental to veterans to help new players.


Yes.

In no way am I claiming that implementing this suggestion will make PA a haven for newbies. It just gives them a bigger pool of people to communicate with.
And who does courage them to come to irc, download such program, meet people and communicate with strangers? Well obviously some friendly galaxy friend or alliance recruiter/member.

Whom would have the "responsibility" to educate them to our habbits if they sit alone and stand alone for starters. I ask you how u found your way to irc, how did u get to know your friends around in here? dont think many of u managed it all by yourself?

So the experienced players aint willing to give anything back for the community and new players. They kick them to stay competetive getting an old timer in. Instead of educating the new player to be on top and share a scan or few for his/her favour. Thats an attitude problem that needs to be changed by removing option to exile people without their own will.

Galaxy shouldnt be able to kick people, but educate them to be helpfull for the galaxy.
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Unread 18 Jul 2009, 19:46   #60
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Ave View Post
And who does courage them to come to irc, download such program, meet people and communicate with strangers? Well obviously some friendly galaxy friend or alliance recruiter/member.

Whom would have the "responsibility" to educate them to our habbits if they sit alone and stand alone for starters. I ask you how u found your way to irc, how did u get to know your friends around in here? dont think many of u managed it all by yourself?

So the experienced players aint willing to give anything back for the community and new players. They kick them to stay competetive getting an old timer in. Instead of educating the new player to be on top and share a scan or few for his/her favour. Thats an attitude problem that needs to be changed by removing option to exile people without their own will.

Galaxy shouldnt be able to kick people, but educate them to be helpfull for the galaxy.
And none of it has anything to do with this suggestion. Next.
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Unread 19 Jul 2009, 07:47   #61
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
And none of it has anything to do with this suggestion. Next.
So you say that if the curent random/newbs are placed "alone" in the universe, instead of a galaxy for example, it has no effect?

I believe the noob roiding will play even bigger role than curently. Since there is nothing to scare them low lifes and no one to protect the smallies.

Alltho I agree this could open oportunety to take 1 vs 1 fights without nessesary interference. Would be easier to play even alone and would surely open targets for everyone. Also u would add more contribution from single player. How ever the activity part gets much more valued again if you sit "alone."

I dont think it helps your case to be arrogant and foolish not to hear or listen others concerns that comes along with this suggestion. No one has really smacked it down anyway.
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Unread 20 Jul 2009, 03:54   #62
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Re: Remove Galaxies

tbh i suggest small private galaxys existing out of 4 or 5 people max.
Allow people to sign up with eachother unbounded by there alliance.

Atm this is my second round where i end up in a galaxy wich i dont care about, why should i want to spoil my ships to a player wich is in a hostile/neutral alliance? i only want to play with my friends and def my friends. i think most people think the same as i do about this, thats why you see person x doesnt get def from person y. my galmates not in ally are crazy if they def me, why should they? they could use their ships for there own roids and alliance benefit.

With priv gals this would be solved, everyone would play for their galaxy again.

For the new players, there should be an option to join a nice random galaxy with around 10 players, so it would be fair for them to play.
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Unread 20 Jul 2009, 21:53   #63
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Re: Remove Galaxies

History has shown that this approach does work - but only for the few "good" players.

Everyone else is farmed. New players have no chance at all - and quit.

Universe shrinks even further.

You see the problem? We need to make the game more enjoyable for the majority of players - while still allowing the top players to have some fun.
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Unread 21 Jul 2009, 10:51   #64
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
I don't believe that removing galaxies will have the effects that are being suggested. I do agree that communication with others is vital - the point I was (and still am) trying to make is that removing galaxies will make this communication less likely.
So we are agreeing that communicaton is vital, this is good. As this lays a foundation for our discussion. It now boils down to our definition of 'likeliness of communication'. To me this definition begins with my chances to find another player who might be useful to me, primarily everyone who is in the lowest defense eta zone. With galaxies, that is (for simplicities sake) 10 other planets. Which means there are 10 out of 1000 planets that might help me, alas a likeliness of 1% (sandmans suggests that we have on average 12 planets per galaxy, and about 1500 planets in total, which means it is actually slightly less than 1%).

Now, without galaxies, it is best to imagine that we still have something like clusters, and people end up within these. For simplicities sake, let's presume that they are about the same size of a current cluster, so with 100 planets apart from mine in them. Presuming a universe size of 1000 (same value as in the first calculation), this does lead to a 10% likeliness of finding someone to cooperate with me (or someone to attack with me).
So unless you can come up with a mathematical model that does not reflect this I don't think you can stick to your claims.

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I also agree that, with these proposals, new players will no longer need to be exiled - however, I think that they'll be farmed instead. Not exactly an improvement.
But they will be farmed anyway. The only difference being, that with galaxies they are farmed from outside a galaxy, with eta 8+ (current minimum eta for attacks). With the proposal mz and me have they will also be farmed, also with the minimum attack eta specified (maybe mz and me need to elaborate on the concept of minimum travel time?).
So, with all due respect, I do not see how this can be counted as an argument against removing galaxies.
Oh, a little positive side effect might be for those wanting-to-be-active but unlucky people that so far landed in galaxies with 90% inactives: They can now farm those to their own advantage and no longer suffer from a (slightly) reduced target pool.

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And who does courage them to come to irc, download such program, meet people and communicate with strangers? Well obviously some friendly galaxy friend or alliance recruiter/member.
That's the first flaw in your thinking: the need for IRC. This is something I totally disagree upon, the game should finally start to catch up with the rest of the internet with regards to communication (for a basic start: friendlist anyone? shoutboxes?).
One way or another, as your statement has already shown, communication has nothing to do with galaxies per se to communicate with people, but rather with the intentions of people.

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Whom would have the "responsibility" to educate them to our habbits if they sit alone and stand alone for starters. I ask you how u found your way to irc, how did u get to know your friends around in here? dont think many of u managed it all by yourself?
Again the flaw of considering IRC as vital (which it isn't, communication is, but not a specific form of communication). The responsibility of getting people into the game and making them want to stay in the game actually lies with the people that are running the game, not within the player base. It is the game designer's (or, in this case, PA Team's) responsibility to create an environment in which people need to communicate with each other, they must give people an incentive to communicate.

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So the experienced players aint willing to give anything back for the community and new players. They kick them to stay competetive getting an old timer in. Instead of educating the new player to be on top and share a scan or few for his/her favour. Thats an attitude problem that needs to be changed by removing option to exile people without their own will.

Galaxy shouldnt be able to kick people, but educate them to be helpfull for the galaxy.
As much as I would agree that galaxies shouldn't be allowed to kick people: this leads to other issues. Just take a look around planetarion suggestions and some of the eorc logs, the amount of issues people have had with galaxies in the previous rounds is annoying.
The model of thinking for mz and me is not focussing around alliances or galaxies or any other meta-entity. It is going back to the basic premise of allowing each player to act according to his (or her) very own needs. For example: at some point two or three other players might consider that my planet is juicy and they could easily take me out if they cooperate. That would lead to me needing assistance, so if I haven't done so far, I will then start to seek communication with other people around me. And as long as I am able to offer something in return I should be able to establish good contacts and get assistance.

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So you say that if the curent random/newbs are placed "alone" in the universe, instead of a galaxy for example, it has no effect?

I believe the noob roiding will play even bigger role than curently. Since there is nothing to scare them low lifes and no one to protect the smallies.
See my previous point on this issue, as made above in response to ArcChas' comment into this direction.

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Alltho I agree this could open oportunety to take 1 vs 1 fights without nessesary interference. Would be easier to play even alone and would surely open targets for everyone. Also u would add more contribution from single player. How ever the activity part gets much more valued again if you sit "alone."
You list almost only good things there that I agree with, except for the sitting alone part: That is only possible as long as everyone else sits there alone. As soon as some people start cooperating you are also forced to cooperate with others. Failure to do so will obviously lead to the downfall of your planet, but then again, as mz pointed out earlier, people that don't want to cooperate with others are, as per definition, always bound to be unhappy and prone to fail in a massive multiplayer game.

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I dont think it helps your case to be arrogant and foolish not to hear or listen others concerns that comes along with this suggestion. No one has really smacked it down anyway.
Being able to provide a decent discussion with good arguments (i.e. ones that are hard to disprove) has nothing to do with arrogance or being foolish. The fools are the people which think that random rantings about what they 'feel' are any valid points.
It would be arrogant if we'd ignore concerns, but we aren't. We are actually taking a look at them and evaluate them with our thought up model of removing galaxies. So far, there hasn't been much need to actually change anything.
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Unread 21 Jul 2009, 22:40   #65
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Re: Remove Galaxies

I think you're underestimating the ruthlessness of some players. Unless you impose some restraint on them they'll make things impossible for nearby planets. Galaxies can't attack their own members - so they don't (when they could - they did). Likewise there's no incentive (as things stand) to attack within your cluster - but with your proposals there *will* be an incentive to attack nearby planets.

Still, I just seem to be repeating myself - so perhaps we'll have to agree to differ.
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Unread 22 Jul 2009, 09:24   #66
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
I think you're underestimating the ruthlessness of some players. Unless you impose some restraint on them they'll make things impossible for nearby planets. Galaxies can't attack their own members - so they don't (when they could - they did).
I am very well aware that there are always players which are ruthless and so on. But after all, that's what you get everywhere in live and is something that especially happens in a space strategy game. So, even if people could attack within their galaxy and would do it that would just mean that the rest of the galaxy would actually have to start dealing with this problem. Be it with cooperation or otherwise. Who else do you think is supposed to solve such issues for you?

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Likewise there's no incentive (as things stand) to attack within your cluster - but with your proposals there *will* be an incentive to attack nearby planets.
At this very moment there is enough incentive to attack within my cluster: There are lots of planets with lots of roids that could all be mine. Where is that not an incentive to attack in-cluster? So what exactly is discouraging me from attacking in cluster?

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Still, I just seem to be repeating myself - so perhaps we'll have to agree to differ.
Maybe it would help if you would actually start arguing in favour of your hypothesis (or against my hypothesis) instead if just throwing random 'I think that ...' statements around without giving reason to them. I find it quite hard to follow your trail of thought when you do not even manage to properly elaborate on it.
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Unread 22 Jul 2009, 11:57   #67
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Re: Remove Galaxies

I explained my reasoning for every statement I've made in this thread - apart from those that are self-evident. You're either being deliberately obtuse or you're just looking for an argument.

Either way, I'm not interested.
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Unread 22 Jul 2009, 13:41   #68
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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I explained my reasoning for every statement I've made in this thread - apart from those that are self-evident.
You did not follow up on backing up your reasons once they were wrong, though. And even before they were proven wrong they mainly consisted of fallacia.

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You're either being deliberately obtuse or you're just looking for an argument.
I am looking for an argument, indeed. Because we want to know all possible issues which might arise from removing galaxies.

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Either way, I'm not interested.
That's a shame, but if all you had to say was said, then it's good I guess.
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Unread 22 Jul 2009, 15:19   #69
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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You did not follow up on backing up your reasons once they were wrong, though. And even before they were proven wrong they mainly consisted of fallacia.



I am looking for an argument, indeed. Because we want to know all possible issues which might arise from removing galaxies.



That's a shame, but if all you had to say was said, then it's good I guess.
As far as I can see, no one has demonstrated that any of my reasons "were wrong". Neither are there any fallacies in my statements.

I approve of looking for argument on the grounds you just outlined. You just seem to be straying away from legitimate argument towards abuse.

I agree that it's good to get opinions out into the open and, yes - I think that's about everything I wanted to say.
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Unread 23 Jul 2009, 06:03   #70
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Re: Remove Galaxies

Havent read the entire threads, so plz forgive me if this has allready been suggested, but why not use the beta/speedy system?

Private gals are limited to 60-70% planets that random gals have. In the end, it results in less private galaxy's and more player interactions.

"Oh noes" you say, "i only want to play with my friends." Oh well, make some more.
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Unread 23 Jul 2009, 06:04   #71
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Re: Remove Galaxies

Yeah, let's isolate the newbies from the veterans even more, excellent idea.
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Unread 23 Jul 2009, 13:11   #72
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Yeah, let's isolate the newbies from the veterans even more, excellent idea.
aren't you suggesting the same? do you honestly think someone veteran would contact some new helpless player to help him, rather than just take easy roids from him?

freaking idiot...
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Unread 23 Jul 2009, 14:14   #73
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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aren't you suggesting the same? do you honestly think someone veteran would contact some new helpless player to help him, rather than just take easy roids from him?

freaking idiot...
Speaking of idiocy: repeating a fallacy is not making you look intelligent.

If you would read carefully through mz's and my argumentation then you would notice that we are not excluding the possibility you mention there. Especially not since it is a scenario that is always possible when it comes to social behaviour of people / groups, and is being constantly applied in the current set up of PA anyway.
Instead mz and me want to increase the new player's chance to actually be able to do something about this situation and help himself out of there (by increasing the communication market for him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin
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Havent read the entire threads, so plz forgive me if this has allready been suggested, but why not use the beta/speedy system?

Private gals are limited to 60-70% planets that random gals have. In the end, it results in less private galaxy's and more player interactions.

"Oh noes" you say, "i only want to play with my friends." Oh well, make some more.
For a start, please reply with those things on the 'Bring back private galaxies' thread instead of trying to drag this off-topic. Then, please move on to actually reading a discussion before bringing up an argument or hypothesis that has been disproved aeons ago. Thanks.
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Unread 23 Jul 2009, 16:23   #74
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Speaking of idiocy: repeating a fallacy is not making you look intelligent.

If you would read carefully through mz's and my argumentation then you would notice that we are not excluding the possibility you mention there. Especially not since it is a scenario that is always possible when it comes to social behaviour of people / groups, and is being constantly applied in the current set up of PA anyway.
Instead mz and me want to increase the new player's chance to actually be able to do something about this situation and help himself out of there (by increasing the communication market for him).



For a start, please reply with those things on the 'Bring back private galaxies' thread instead of trying to drag this off-topic. Then, please move on to actually reading a discussion before bringing up an argument or hypothesis that has been disproved aeons ago. Thanks.
Well I still think (yes think, its not like u got any proven and tested facts either) this is gona be much worse for any new player, but since its not likely we will get any, we can aswell allow universe to be spread around and allow you to use the whole network of friends you collected thrue these 10 years....
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Unread 26 Jul 2009, 10:03   #75
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Re: Remove Galaxies

The problems suggested here have a lot to do with people being able to play with friends and farming of noobs. Well then i guess the thing to do would be to just separate the galaxy. Put a "hardcore" and a "normal" galaxy have them be no interaction between the 2 and just set it up like it is now. If you start talking about private galaxies it just makes it easier for alliances to raid them. It puts a 70 man alliance vs 5-6 planets instead of 10-15 planets, basically guaranteeing landings. So we have to keep 10-15 man galaxies. So my suggestion would be to not put buddy packs together but still give them the eta bonus for defending. Because that's the main bonus for buddy packs. But it sticks people into gals that are not dominated by one ally, making it harder to make super galaxys. If someone doesnt have a buddy pack well honestly thats too bad for them. But keep the regular galaxy eta. and limit galaxies to 8-12. This prevents it from getting totally swamped with incs as you have to cover planets.
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Unread 26 Jul 2009, 10:40   #76
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Re: Remove Galaxies

I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting here, your post is a bit of a mess. Splitting the universe is a bad idea though, because new players need help from the veterans.
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Unread 26 Jul 2009, 18:54   #77
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Re: Remove Galaxies

Well if the problem is noob bashing, and being owned by a galaxy that hates you, then why not just give an option to make larger buddy packs. So that way people can have galaxies entirly of who they want. There would still be a "random" option for noobs and people who want to go solo.
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Unread 27 Jul 2009, 04:21   #78
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Well if the problem is noob bashing, and being owned by a galaxy that hates you, then why not just give an option to make larger buddy packs. So that way people can have galaxies entirly of who they want. There would still be a "random" option for noobs and people who want to go solo.
Which would only make the problem worse. Noobs would be even more closed off from the rest of the universe, and end up in shittier gals than the 'private' gals you suggest; as a result being farmed even more than in the current setup.

What I'd like to see is a setup with no exiling, or at the most a very limited number of exiles. That way you'd be forced (I'd rather say 'encouraged') to work with newer players, and help them to learn the game and grow so they can defend your ass. ^^

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Unread 27 Jul 2009, 07:41   #79
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Re: Remove Galaxies

What I'd like to see is a setup with no exiling, or at the most a very limited number of exiles. That way you'd be forced (I'd rather say 'encouraged') to work with newer players, and help them to learn the game and grow so they can defend your ass. ^^

Also just throwing universe around randomly wouldnt be such a bad option, you could add friendly planets to quick communication, set them napped and if accepted game declines hostile launch between these two people. We could consider about eta bonus there also.

How ever the universe should be still divided in galaxies I feel.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 19:25   #80
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Re: Remove Galaxies

I finally understand this idea after having played AstroEmpires where they employ a similar signup system.

I dislike the idea of having 4 quadrants though. I'd much prefer a system which had unlimited quadrants, which would start out with 4 quadrants (you can choose which one you enter) then once they are fleshed out, it creates a new quadrant for new signups (with this one being recommended for newbies) while giving the option to signup in the previous quadrants still (this keeps going, once that quadrant is fleshed out, it creates a new one).

This system would allow make it so that new players (who signup after the start) would be placed into a quadrant full of other new players who have roughly signed up the same time as them. While also allow experienced players signup in a quadrant with there friends who signuped up earlier.
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Unread 3 Oct 2009, 03:09   #81
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Re: Remove Galaxies

Remove the ability to exile people from your galaxy, this will give a BP an incentive to help their galaxy mates grow.
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Unread 4 Oct 2009, 01:16   #82
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Re: Remove Galaxies

Actually BPs have a very strong incentive to help their galaxy mates do more than just grow right now. Being able to exile people is very useful in getting rid of people that aren't winning to be helped and replace them with people who are.
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Unread 4 Oct 2009, 09:15   #83
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Actually BPs have a very strong incentive to help their galaxy mates do more than just grow right now. Being able to exile people is very useful in getting rid of people that aren't winning to be helped and replace them with people who are.
That doesn't help a new player without an alliance, the exile function is abused to get your own alliance non bp's in or a player with another alliance.

New players don't last long in decent gals.
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Unread 4 Oct 2009, 11:52   #84
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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That doesn't help a new player without an alliance, the exile function is abused to get your own alliance non bp's in or a player with another alliance.

New players don't last long in decent gals.
It's not a simple case of either/or here. Some galaxies do it one way, some do it others. For some people they might do one thing one round and another the next. Just because some people treat the exile function one way doesn't mean that everyone does.
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Unread 10 Oct 2009, 08:12   #85
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Re: Remove Galaxies

All this talk about noobs or encourage them and all , its funny because when you watch this game many of you "great players" from your "big alli`s" go bash small planets all the time to get easy roids safely and talk about their big attacks . Poor , very poor ....also a reason why i quit after 30 rounds .
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Unread 10 Oct 2009, 11:42   #86
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Re: Remove Galaxies

I can only speak for myself, but I haven't attacked an allianceless player in at least 5 rounds, though I must admit that stems from a laziness to find my own targets, rather than some extraordinary commitment to the preservation of the Newbie.
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 14:49   #87
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I can only speak for myself, but I haven't attacked an allianceless player in at least 5 rounds, though I must admit that stems from a laziness to find my own targets, rather than some extraordinary commitment to the preservation of the Newbie.
but u have happily roided some low tire alliances
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 15:59   #88
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Re: Remove Galaxies

I already said that as a player, I'm not commited to protecting newbies. That said, only participating in Ascendancy raids means that I primarily hit alliances that are an actual threat to us (especially in the last 6 or so rounds). Were you to compare, say, the number of Apprime planets I hit this round to the number of ASS planets, then you would see that former has seen more of me than the latter (or any other alliance, for that matter).

I just checked the intel of all the targets I launched on this round. Here's the outcome:
Total: 29
Apprime: 11
1:1 bots: 9
VisioN: 2
DLR: 2
penguins: 1
NewDawn: 1
Evolution: 1
xVx: 1
Unknown: 1 (deleted, so can't look up intel)

I doubt there are many people who could do better than that. Now, if we could move on from this fairly pointless (and inaccurate) ad hominem, that'd be great.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 11 Oct 2009 at 16:11.
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 18:03   #89
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Re: Remove Galaxies

Are you sure those 1:1 bots weren't F-Crew?

There's no bigger motivation for getting better at a game than being beaten by it/other players! If we want to keep newer players, it should primarily be because the game is damn good fun. PA was all that up till 8-9 years ago, it's not something people are getting excited about anymore.
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 19:00   #90
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
There's no bigger motivation for getting better at a game than being beaten by it/other players!
True, but within reason. No one likes playing a game in which newbies get slaughtered as soon as they step outside the safety of protection. Sure, there's a food chain, but even lions don't eat all the antelopes.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 21:54   #91
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Re: Remove Galaxies

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
True, but within reason. No one likes playing a game in which newbies get slaughtered as soon as they step outside the safety of protection. Sure, there's a food chain, but even lions don't eat all the antelopes.
Would it not be more apt to say "even lions don't don't eat all the rabbits"? Rabbits being that little bit further down the food chain and all. And lions WOULD eat all the antelopes if they had a big enough appetite. I think Asc/App are kinda like lions (although Apprime certainly being older partially blind lions), NewDawn/Conspiracy being antelopes and newbies being tiny little rabbit-kind?
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 22:08   #92
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Re: Remove Galaxies

..what did I tell you about overextending analogies?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Oct 2009, 22:58   #93
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Re: Remove Galaxies

That overextending analogies was like being asked to make 5 foot of string, and going on to make seven, or even eight. It doesn't matter that the extra few feet wont get used, and most likely be discarded causing unnecessary waste, simply that it can often distort the point, leaving it too finely woven or too strung out.
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