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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 14:55   #1
Tomkat
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OiNK closed down...

...and a man from Middlesborough arrested!

BBC Story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...es/7057812.stm

IFPI's Statement:
http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_news/20071023.html


British and Dutch police have shut down a "widely-used" source of illegally-downloaded music.

A flat on Teesside and several properties in Amsterdam were raided as part of an Interpol investigation into the members-only website OiNK.




If you go to the offending website, http://oink.cd/, it says simply that it is closed and you should go to any news site to find out why.

With 180k members (all criminals!), how many of you are naughty illegal downloaders from that site? On the upside, I guess you don't have to worry about your ratios any more!
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Last edited by Tomkat; 23 Oct 2007 at 15:03.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 14:57   #2
Marv
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Good.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:07   #3
Mzyxptlk
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Sucks, but life goes on. I'm sure I'll find another place to get my fix.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:12   #4
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Re: OiNK closed down...

That's quite interesting because tvlinks was shut down a few days ago too.

Quote:
The group's director general Kieron Sharp said TV Links was the first major target in a campaign to crackdown on web piracy.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:20   #5
Mzyxptlk
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Yeah, basically for linking to sites which in turn provide links which then enable you to get video files. From my limited knowledge of copyright law, linking to content is always allowed, let alone linking to links to content, so this would be a very shaky case.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:21   #6
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Sucks, but life goes on. I'm sure I'll find another place to get my fix.
Sucks?

This is a large victory for the average musician.

While we all know that the "big stars" can cope and probably don't notice the loss on earnings that illegal downloads brings them. How do you think the average musician feels when he / she relies on those royalty payments from sales to pay his / her mortgage or put food on their family's table?

If you want an album - go out and buy it or download it from somewhere like iTunes. If you don't want an entire album, buy the bits that you do, again, from somewhere like iTunes & stop ****ing over the average Joe (like me) trying to make a living in the industry to put food on the table.

While the large stars get paid an awful lot, those of us that record their music / set up their microphones / mix their sound so it's actually listenable get paid sod all.

You're absolutely right when you download music that you're not skewing over the star on the front of the album, but you are the countless people who actually get that album recorded / produced and out for you to listen too.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:30   #7
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Luckily, I don't manufacture grand explanations or theories about why I download music, just so I can feel good about myself. The fact that OiNK went down means I'll need to spend more time searching for the music that I want to listen to. So yeah, that sucks. I don't care about musicians, nor about producers, nor about record salesmen and I especially don't care about multinational record labels. I care about me. And I'm perfectly comfortable with that.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Oct 2007 at 15:38.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:46   #8
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
This is a large victory for the average musician.
I'd say it's the opposite. How exactly are people supposed to hear music from Obscure Band #5 through traditional means? I can name large numbers of bands that I only got into through downloading music from the internet (Bad Religion being a good example, as despite being a well known band that have been about for nigh on three decades at this point I had no ****ing clue who they were) that I wouldn't have spent money in other circumstances.

Of course, this presumes that the obscure band in question are actually good (I can name more artists for whom I listened to the album once and then promptly deleted) but I doubt anyone's in the entertainment industry because they think they're crap at it.

That's even assuming that downloading causes any sort of economic damage to the music industry at all, last I checked the drop in sales was consistent with the fall in revenue in other entertainment media.

I have to say that I'm not a musician, but I am a writer - and if one of my scripts gets transmitted then the first thing I'd do would be to send copies to everyone, host it on torrent trackers and the like. Anything that gets more people to hear or see it is a good thing.

[edit]

Last time we had one of these threads I found some research that showed that proportionally more money was going to small artists than large artists since the rise of file sharing.

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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:55   #9
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Re: OiNK closed down...

one of the last flailing grasps of a content industry that has lost its way.
The middlemen are no longer required, the artist can go direct ( like radiohead has done, and well played to them ) - yet they persist in clawing away at the walls in order to maintain their stranglehold position
Its like what leia said to tarkin - the tighter you close your grasp - the more systems will slip through your fingers
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 15:56   #10
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
one of the last flailing grasps of a content industry that has lost its way.
The middlemen are no longer required, the artist can go direct ( like radiohead has done, and well played to them ) - yet they persist in clawing away at the walls in order to maintain their stranglehold position
Its like what leia said to tarkin - the tighter you close your grasp - the more systems will slip through your fingers
Thank you for breaking the nerd stereotype yet again
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:01   #11
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
(Bad Religion being a good example, as despite being a well known band that have been about for nigh on three decades at this point I had no ****ing clue who they were) that I wouldn't have spent money in other circumstances.
What did you spend money on, once you'd managed to get all their music off the net for free?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:06   #12
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
What did you spend money on, once you'd managed to get all their music off the net for free?
Their CDs? Other merchandise? Going to concerts (although not that last one much, as I can't be bothered to go to London - although it must be noted that the amount of money an artist gets from royalties compared to gigs is absolutely pathetic)? In Bad Religion's case, I own ~12 albums or EPs by them.

The "once you have downloaded something you're not allowed to buy it by internet law" thing is an assumption which is really bizarre to me.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:10   #13
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
surely what really matters to people like marv is whether you actually pay up in the end, not whether a band gets more "fans". and the answer to your first question is websites like myspace and it's ilk. you don't need to be able to download and entire album in FLAC to be able to workout if you like the band or not.
To use the Bad Religion example, the track they released from New Maps of Hell was Dearly Beloved which is a terrible terrible song. On the strength of that, as opposed to Submission Complete, Grains of Wrath, Fields of Mars and the like, I wouldn't have bought the album.

The only things I have in FLAC are Wagner operas anyway.

I also hear Arcade Fire are doing ok for themselves, they're popular on the back of the internets don'tchaknow

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
is this a joke?
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
you might just be doing this out the goodness of your heart (in which case well done) but from my hugely limited schema surrounding writing programs, are there not some bennefits to offering your code for free that say releasing your music does not. i.e beta testing it, getting a "fan base" for the product for when you release a version that requires payment?
Last I checked you couldn't beta test a radio show. And how could you hear a computer script?

Last edited by MrL_JaKiri; 23 Oct 2007 at 16:18.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:13   #14
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i often buy cds of bands i've found on the internet too; mainly because i'm a neurotic faggot who can't fight very well against the feeling that a cd is an artifact containing the true essense of the music/band. the thing is shit loads of other people aren't. around half my friends buy next to no cd's anymore, they just rip mp3s. i know it's just two guys but they probably aren't the only ones.
And I know people who've bought literally hundreds of CDs by themselves after downloading things, on average the industry gains money from our stupid examples!
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:29   #15
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Their CDs? Other merchandise? Going to concerts (although not that last one much, as I can't be bothered to go to London - although it must be noted that the amount of money an artist gets from royalties compared to gigs is absolutely pathetic)? In Bad Religion's case, I own ~12 albums or EPs by them.

The "once you have downloaded something you're not allowed to buy it by internet law" thing is an assumption which is really bizarre to me.
Do you think you're in the majority when you choose to buy the EPs/CDs/music of artists, having already downloaded their songs?

(asking honestly, not trying to troll or bait)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakiri
And I know people who've bought literally hundreds of CDs by themselves after downloading things, on average the industry gains money from our stupid examples!
I'm not as "into" music as a lot of people here, but I love films/series. Altering the subject slightly, I never download films. Like horn, I like to own them and have the whole package (literally). I don't think many people feel this way though, and faced with the choice will go with the easy (read: free) option.



Oh and horn, Jakiri is in the process of co-writing a radio show (for Radio 4, I think?) and is being deliberately vague to annoy you (probly!).
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:39   #16
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
yeah i rekon that isn't true. iirc you're fairly well off and given you go to cambridge and know someone called giles i assume most of your chums have enough money to buy cd's without much worry. that isn't the case for most people though and skipping the hardcopy can be a pretty sound financial gain. again i'd ask you to look at drops in cd sales for supportive evidence.
But would poor people buy the albums if they couldn't download them?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:51   #17
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Re: OiNK closed down...

free stuff is good; end of discussion
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:53   #18
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
maybe, maybe not. are you suggesting they should get it for free if they can't?
Personally, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if they did. But if your reasoning against illegally downloading music is "they shouldn't do it because it's bad for the industry/record labels/artists/shop keepers", then your answer to my question should have been "yes, they would", if you wished your argument to hold.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 16:53   #19
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
A 24-year-old man from Middlesbrough was arrested on Tuesday morning.
Snap, kinda.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:00   #20
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Also, Jakiri's arguments are sound. If I was relying on what I could buy directly as the basis for my musical knowledge and taste then I would be utterly ****ed, as would, I imagine, the majority of the bands in question. I am sure that most of the bands I listen to regularly would not be where they are today were it not through a combination of word of mouth and downloads, leading onto more intensive fandom.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:18   #21
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Re: OiNK closed down...

The funny thing is, it's usually the people with the biggest wallets that complain the most, in this case the "big four" and their lackeys.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:24   #22
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i don't think enrichement of your own personal tastes in music is a particularly compelling case for a moral greenlight on pirating music.
Like I said, I think it's enriching for the bands too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
maybe, but then no one's stopping them from using the internet for this kind of distribution
If you (or at least, someone, at some point) is not pirating, then how are you going to get to hear about a particularly good obscure band? If a small band were relying purely on getting 'big' based on gigs and then sales through that, then they'd be hugely limited. I doubt that some of the bands which I know who have a worldwide audience and can play huge gigs across the Atlantic would have much of a following if it weren't for pirating tbh.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:36   #23
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
the key point here mm is that it's up to them to agree with you.
I dunno really. I'm morally confused on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
for instance, it wouldn't be ok for you to put your cock in me if i didn't want you to just because you think the world would be a better place with just gays.
To quote your good self:

:/

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
myspace, etc.
This is invariably going to descend into anecdote and competing rumour but I doubt that myspace is quite as effective as simply piracy, although I'd like to be proven wrong on that.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:46   #24
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
so you should be able to pirate a bands music on the basis that you don't trust their marketing strategy?
This isn't related in any way to what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i rekon they'd have gotten pretty huge anyway but does it matter? if a band wants to use the internet to get big then great, but surely it's up to them?
It's not up to them (unless they're able to break away from the recording industry entirely - like Radiohead and NIN), so this is irrelevent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
ok well i'd suggest you look at some stats concerning year on year decline in record sales as opposed to relative drops with an industry that also happens to be suffering from piracy. it's like measuring if your aeroplane is falling by seeing if you're falling away from the person sitting next to you or not.
People don't eat out because they can download the food off the internet, am i rite

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
sorry, i'm not sure what you're saying here. you coded a radio show?
According to you I did, so I guess we're all happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Oh and horn, Jakiri is in the process of co-writing a radio show (for Radio 4, I think?) and is being deliberately vague to annoy you (probly!).
How is it vague to say that I'm a writer? I didn't say I'm not a formula one driver either, is that being vague?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
yeah i rekon that isn't true. iirc you're fairly well off and given you go to cambridge and know someone called giles i assume most of your chums have enough money to buy cd's without much worry. that isn't the case for most people though and skipping the hardcopy can be a pretty sound financial gain. again i'd ask you to look at drops in cd sales for supportive evidence.
Giles lives in a house on the north side of Cambridge that he can only reasonably afford, despite sharing it with 3 other people. Three of the people in this house I knew before I came up here. Two, including Giles, are from a tiny village in the yorkshire moors. The other's from a council estate in Darlington.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:47   #25
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Re: OiNK closed down...

While I'm guilty of having downloaded music (as I'm sure most of you are), it isn't simply a question of whether it's right or wrong. Places like Oink being removed mean that people are probably going to look elsewhere for their music. If other similar sites also get closed, then eventually people will look to itunes (etc) to buy music. While yes, CDs are pretty overpriced, buying them online is cheap - even for "poor" people, mz.

Ideally there should be a compromise - if people want to find out about bands to expand their music collection, there must be easier (and more legal!) ways to do it than downloading it using torrents. If that is your main argument for it, then I'm sure you're not alone and hopefully something will be done about it.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:48   #26
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
How is it vague to say that I'm a writer?
How did your robotic Himmler on a desert island story pan out?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:51   #27
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Do you think you're in the majority when you choose to buy the EPs/CDs/music of artists, having already downloaded their songs?

(asking honestly, not trying to troll or bait)
Do you think there is a direct correlation between the amount of music someone downloads for free and the amount they would actually spend on CDs if tyhis option weren't available?

Quote:
I'm not as "into" music as a lot of people here, but I love films/series. Altering the subject slightly, I never download films. Like horn, I like to own them and have the whole package (literally). I don't think many people feel this way though, and faced with the choice will go with the easy (read: free) option.
Would you agree that 99% of mass media is rubbish?
If so, why would you risk buying something crap when you can watch if for free first?
Doesn't this then lead to money going to 'better' films/music/whatever rather than bands that put one good song with 11 'filler' tracks on a CD?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:51   #28
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
yeah i rekon that isn't true. iirc you're fairly well off and given you go to cambridge and know someone called giles i assume most of your chums have enough money to buy cd's without much worry. that isn't the case for most people though and skipping the hardcopy can be a pretty sound financial gain. again i'd ask you to look at drops in cd sales for supportive evidence.
If they can't afford to buy CDs anyway, how is it a loss?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:52   #29
MrL_JaKiri
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
While I'm guilty of having downloaded music (as I'm sure most of you are), it isn't simply a question of whether it's right or wrong. Places like Oink being removed mean that people are probably going to look elsewhere for their music. If other similar sites also get closed, then eventually people will look to itunes (etc) to buy music. While yes, CDs are pretty overpriced, buying them online is cheap - even for "poor" people, mz.
Nah, they won't. The main benefit of Oink over just any old internet music community was twofold: 1. it had things in high quality (like iTunes doesn't) 2. it had obscure things you can't get any more (like iTunes doesn't).

The generally mass-market stuff that is most easily found on iTunes is the stuff that can be most easily pirated, so all it does is punish the people who want things that can't be found elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
How did your robotic Himmler on a desert island story pan out?
Now THAT was great, in a trippy kind of way.

It got cut from TTD, which we stopped writing years ago because it was getting far too complicated.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:53   #30
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
How is it vague to say that I'm a writer? I didn't say I'm not a formula one driver either, is that being vague?
If you said "I'm a driver" but then assumed we should know you meant Formula 1, then yes.

Google for "define: writer". Which one are you? You didn't tell us

This is beside the point though. Let's not go off-topic...!
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:55   #31
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
It got cut from TTD, which we stopped writing years ago because it was getting far too complicated.


What was/is TTD?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:56   #32
MrL_JaKiri
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
If you said "I'm a driver" but then assumed we should know you meant Formula 1, then yes.

Google for "define: writer". Which one are you? You didn't tell us
Any of the first three, before you get onto things like the names of albums (I must mention at this point that I am NOT a place in Cameroon).

writ·er (rī'tər) pronunciation
n.

One who writes, especially as an occupation.

Seriously though, the only way you could get "coder" out of what I said was if you ignored everything apart from the word "script" and even then chose the wrong option.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 17:59   #33
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson


What was/is TTD?
An Comedy Film About Zombies, which had the misfortune to be started to be written at around the same time as Pegg and Wright started writing SotD. A post-modern masterpiece!

Also we could never really settle on a plot which got all the ludicrous stuff in that we wanted.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:03   #34
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Do you think there is a direct correlation between the amount of music someone downloads for free and the amount they would actually spend on CDs if tyhis option weren't available?
It isn't about what I think. There's conflicting "evidence" supporting both statements. There isn't enough proof it does or doesn't affect it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Would you agree that 99% of mass media is rubbish?
If so, why would you risk buying something crap when you can watch if for free first?
Doesn't this then lead to money going to 'better' films/music/whatever rather than bands that put one good song with 11 'filler' tracks on a CD?
I can rent a film before I buy it. I can also see it at the cinema before I buy it. Unfortunately there isn't really an equivalent of these for music
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:03   #35
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Exclamation Re: OiNK closed down...

horn, empty your PM box please but don't reply to the last one I sent you as I am sending you an additional clarification.

edit: (this is the clarification) I am talking of anal penetration in the previous context from a purely hypothetical perspective, for purposes of moral elaboration.

So please, reply away, do.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 23 Oct 2007 at 18:22.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:06   #36
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It isn't about what I think. There's conflicting "evidence" supporting both statements. There isn't enough proof it does or doesn't affect it.
So why are you so against something that has no evidence of hurting artists and may possibly help them both in CD sales and visitors to their shows?

Quote:
I can rent a film before I buy it. I can also see it at the cinema before I buy it. Unfortunately there isn't really an equivalent of these for music
So why stop free music? Especially whan you will listen to a CD far more than you would watch a movie.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:11   #37
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Given that I've considered the issue many times and I still haven't come up with a compelling reason why I should stop violating intellectual property laws I just really don't see why I'd care.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:12   #38
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
So why are you so against something that has no evidence of hurting artists and may possibly help them both in CD sales and visitors to their shows?
This isn't quite the argument.

The argument is that artists can generate sales through exposure, which can be taken to be true (as the record companies assume it). Obscure artists, who don't get exposure otherwise, are benefitted by a file sharing community where they have music downloadable, whereas popular artists, who have huge amounts of exposure anyway, don't benefit as much.

The question then is how many sales are then generated by this increase in exposure. The popular artists will have decreased sales figures, because some people who download their album will not buy it, and they don't get any better known. The obscure bands will, assuming the increased revenoo from exposure is not horribly low, be better off.

Whether this is a zero sum game or not is open to debate. It may well be. Either way, it's a state of play that favours the small artist.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:30   #39
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apothos
That's quite interesting because tvlinks was shut down a few days ago too.
it gets even more interesting when you hear what he was arrested for
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:36   #40
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
it gets even more interesting when you hear what he was arrested for
The hilarious thing is that it was linked off the beeb the other day, before being shut down partially by... the beeb.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:50   #41
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
ya it is.
it seems to be that you're suggesting you should be able to pirate a bands music because they might not have released the singles you'd have liked. you pretending like my labelling of this siuation as a disagreement in their marketing ability as something "in no way related to what you said" is a waste of time.
Nu uh

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
aside from this being a complete red herring, there's nothing forcing bands to sign up to labels.
They have to mang, now if only someone had found a way to distribute music over the internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i don't understand how this is replying to what i said.
i'll repeat what i said in hardcore maths for you.
say we have industry x, y and z. these industrys come under the umbrella industry of A. they're all loving it up in the sun until one day B comes along and starts undermining all of A and it's subsidiaries x, y and z. The stock starts to fall on all of A's subsidieries.
now an economist called mrl_science has suggested that x's stock is not actually falling, because if you look at y and z's stock, they're about the same. what mrl_science failed to notice was that they are infact falling, just that they are falling together.
Sorry I don't understand hardcore maths, I'm too busy downloading pizza from the internet and reducing the revenoo of local restaurants

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
fiar enough. they're still a minority.
One of them's gay, is he a minority minority?
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 18:56   #42
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
is the exposure small artists gain from a file sharing community somehow irreducibly attached to the need for mainstream artists to also have their music "shared"? other than, obviously, that it would be rather hard to stop them from doing so if they wished to.
Why is "shared" in inverted commas? "File sharing" is the general name for this.

And no, it isn't - but right now it's not really likely. You'll also not find things like live performances of major bands distributed if they're not otherwise put on a CD or DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
is a proper reply coming after the comedy one here?
Well, the first thing you said is irrelevent, the second thing you said is irrelevent, the third thing you said is irrelevent and the fourth thing is still irrelevent, especially with the post from the bottom of the previous page.

So no.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 19:18   #43
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
you said, "That's even assuming that downloading causes any sort of economic damage to the music industry at all, last I checked the drop in sales was consistent with the fall in revenue in other entertainment media.". i'm saying that's ridiulous because you're comparing it's fall in revenue to other industries that come under "entertainment media" that are also suffering from piracy. how is this not relevent?
Sorry, I meant the consumer industry. Hency my references to food.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 19:24   #44
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
you said, "That's even assuming that downloading causes any sort of economic damage to the music industry at all, last I checked the drop in sales was consistent with the fall in revenue in other entertainment media.". i'm saying that's ridiulous because you're comparing it's fall in revenue to other industries that come under "entertainment media" that are also suffering from piracy. how is this not relevent?
A better example might be newspaper sales. The news is available for free online, yet newspaper sales (as far as I'm aware!) haven't dropped significantly.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 19:24   #45
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
So why are you so against something that has no evidence of hurting artists and may possibly help them both in CD sales and visitors to their shows?
Which post are you referring to that shows me being "so against it"? I'm not - I didn't say I was.



Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
So why stop free music? Especially whan you will listen to a CD far more than you would watch a movie.
I didn't say we should stop free music

Sites like OiNK were/are making money (through donations on Paypal). If you're going to pay for music, then you should pay the artist (directly or indirectly).

It's a real pity Radiohead aren't going to publish the figures they make for that "free" album - it's essentially a the OiNK style of music (free, but you can donate) but it goes to the artist rather than the guy running the website.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 19:58   #46
MrL_JaKiri
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Sites like OiNK were/are making money (through donations on Paypal).
Not particularly much; the beeb talked about hundreds of thousands of pounds, but unless it's changed recently most of the money went on upkeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
oh right. i thought you were just being wacky!
can you link to whatever it was you found this out from?
It was in a thread on here I think, I'll try and find it later.

Last edited by MrL_JaKiri; 23 Oct 2007 at 20:05.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 22:40   #47
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Which post are you referring to that shows me being "so against it"? I'm not - I didn't say I was.
It's the general sense of your posts that imply (though they don't explicitly state) that downloading is bad because people don't pay and therefore artists are losing money, although you admit there is no proof of this either way.

[quote]I didn't say we should stop free music

Sites like OiNK were/are making money (through donations on Paypal). If you're going to pay for music, then you should pay the artist (directly or indirectly).[/qoute]

Most of the money goes on upkeep of the site and I'd imagine the rest is going to go on lawyers fees.

Quote:
It's a real pity Radiohead aren't going to publish the figures they make for that "free" album - it's essentially a the OiNK style of music (free, but you can donate) but it goes to the artist rather than the guy running the website.
Oink has no advertisements so this is the only way it can make money, otherwise it's just some guy in his room spending a lot of his own money on a not-for-profit program.


Off-topic but I would like to see in major record stores 'listening stations' again. This is an aold idea but let's give it a 21st Century spin shall we?

Most people nowadays have their own headphones with them most of the time. Have a digital jukebox (like they have in some pubs) so the shopper can listen to whatever album they like for free. This allows shoppers to know what they're getting before hand and if they like it they can go and get it straight away. Alternatively, they could be given the option of downloading a copy straight onto their MP3 player (unprotected versions, obviously) in whatever format they choose.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 22:45   #48
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Re: OiNK closed down...

I've seen an average price of £4/download mentioned, with 1/3 of people paying nothing.

Source: http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle2633798.ece
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 22:47   #49
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Re: OiNK closed down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
It's the general sense of your posts that imply (though they don't explicitly state) that downloading is bad
Before arguing with someone, it would be wise to check on their opinion...


Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Most of the money goes on upkeep of the site and I'd imagine the rest is going to go on lawyers fees.
Do you have the link to these figures available?


Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Oink has no advertisements so this is the only way it can make money, otherwise it's just some guy in his room spending a lot of his own money on a not-for-profit program.
Noone was forcing him to do it. I guess he's just a modern day saint, an internet pioneer, fighting against the evil music corporation machine.
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Unread 23 Oct 2007, 22:50   #50
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Re: OiNK closed down...

wish i knew that guy
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