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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 22:22   #1
Deffeh
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Euro Qualifiers

Interesting day to say the least.

Re Scotland: They were ****ing terrible, but they just keep rolling on and building up our hope only for the inevitably smashing we'll take in 7 of our 9 remaining games.

There wasnt a man of the match on the field because every ****ing player made mistakes and did things well also. McManus should have got goalside for the georgian goal, but was good otherwise. McCulloch was useless in attack but good in defence. Teale's ball for the goal was brilliant but did **** all else. Hartley's delivery was terrible but he battled well. Boyd scored but missed 3 great chances (what the ****, of all the players). Miller missed chances (as usual) but worked his ass into the ground. The wing backs were hopeless positionally. Gordon made one good save but didnt have a lot to do. Barry ferguson was in anonymous scotland-ferguson mode. Therefore the man of the match by default was David Weir, because he worked his old legs well and made a few interceptions.

Scotland had no shape and despite all the chances we missed, they really came out of the blue. And no one kid themselves, Craig Beattie is shit, he even scuffed the ball into the back of the net. Theres a lot of work to be done - mainly in picking the right players - Brown - complete wanker and cesspit of a human being that he is - battled well when he came on and his first touch was good. Chris Burke who has been Rangers' best player in europe for 2 seasons now didnt even get on the field. Both probably deserve a chance.

Im glad we got the 3 points; but we all know we were ****ing shit today and lucky to get a kick up the arse (hopefully) without losing any points or momentum.


Re England;

Listening to 606, youd think that was the worst England performance in years. Are you kidding me? Havent you watched england in the last 2 years? For me, that was england's BEST performance since before the world cup.

Fat Frank the wank was absolutely terrible but thats to be expected with a passenger like him.
Rooney was marked out the game but still didnt create **** all and got frustrated too easy.

Apart from that; everyone came out with neutral or positive ratings for me -

Johnson - worked hard, was given **** all to work with - apart from the Gerrard cross he should have buried.
Carragher - stupid yellow card but adapted well to a position he hasnt played in 3-4 seasons.
P. Neville - anyone that thinks neville had a shit game is just a bitter p neville hater. He played well and got forward well, much more comfortable at RB than he was at LB
Robinson, Ferdinand and Terry - had nothing to do; didnt do anything wrong. What could they have done?
Lennon - ran into space as often as he possibly could but its JUST NOT POSSIBLE to do that for an entire game, and england need another outlet other than him to take the pressure off
Hargreaves - carried fat frank on his back the whole match - one misplaced pass - otherwise battled really hard and won a lot of the ball.
Gerrard - MOTM without doubt - fantastic array of passing, killer balls and sensible balls and was positive throughout - but theres only so much one man can do.


England didnt win today because Israel were unbelievably negative at home, and because Johnson and Lampard missed their best chances (and Defoe). Israel rode their luck and england just didnt manage to break them down enough.

Apart from maybe playing barry left back instead of center half carragher (who did well anyway) and dropping lampard for gerrard in the center, and playing lennon at RM rather than LM (and even then, who do you play LM? Downing, lolz.), i dont see what they did wrong.


The only criticism i can see is that the odd "slip up" and "we did everything we could but couldnt score" is a reasonable excuse as an occasional thing - but not when its happening this regularly.

PS England will still qualify
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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 22:52   #2
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

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Originally Posted by Deffeh
PS England will still qualify
I hope you are wrong.

I believe english football needs a kick up the arse, the catalyst to which will be us not qualifying for a major tournament.

It will force everyone from grass roots to brian barwick to re evaluate the state of the game in England.
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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 23:14   #3
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

im pretty sure that somewhere there will be a headline tomorrow: 'bring back beckham'
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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 23:23   #4
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

probably, but neither lennon nor gerrard were the problem - although switching gerrard inside and playing beckham on the right, maybe...

i still think hes good enough for england. But i think mclaren is too stubborn - its pretty much the one decision hes made in his tenure
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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 23:25   #5
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

When was the last time that England appeared to play with any passion?

Venables? Keegan?

What I do know is that both those managers weren't scared of trying something knew (Heck same goes for Hoddle) International football should be treated like domestic football. If you aren't doing the business you don't play. If we start at the back, why wasn't Micah Richards and Gareth Barry playing? Both in form players who imo are better than Neville and Carraghar at right and left back.

Central Defence I have no gripes with, perhaps recall Campbell to the middle two, he has had a fantastic season and when neville isn't there adds a bit of the old guard at the back.

In the middle of the park.

Aaron Lennon I have no problems with. A good young fast kid, but he hasn't come of age yet, and is 90 minutes too much? Last half hour let him run at a tired defence, then he will perform.

Fat Frank and Gerrard can't perform together. Drop one of them. I don't care which.

Don't play Hargreaves for the sake of it. If Carrick is doing better and fitter play him instead. Conversely we don't need a holding midfielder, just because it worked in the world cup a little, doesn't mean we have to be stuck with this idea of a hargreaves/carrick.

Try to bring back Scholes, beg, whatever, he is needed in the England team.

Up front. What can you say, we lack quality English Strikers. I look at Rooney and then think who else. Even Rooney is seeming a bit drab these days. With this in mind make Rooney the centre of attention. If crouch and Rooney work, play Crouch and Rooney, heck if Rooney and Nugent work play them.

Also goalkeeping wise. Foster has had a blinder this season. Don't be scared to pick him.

Finally Steve McClaren needs to grow some balls, become tactically astute and he shouldn't be afraid of choosing the team.

What England need is a personality. Someone who can call the shots and isn't scared.

What's on the back of the shirt, isn't as important as what's on the front.
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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 23:36   #6
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

if you put carrick in that team youd have an even more lifeless pathetic attempt at a midfield than the one you saw today. hes an also ran, and he wont even get stuck in like a hargreaves will. not england quality - neither is scott parker for that matter - or jermaine jenas.

If you dont think steven gerrard played with passion today you dont know what passion is. But theres only so many times you can passionately ram your head into a brick wall.
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Unread 24 Mar 2007, 23:45   #7
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
What I do know is that both those managers weren't scared of trying something knew
Such as playing Beckham as a holding midfielder, or playing 4-3-3?

Conservatism isn't the problem here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Central Defence I have no gripes with, perhaps recall Campbell to the middle two, he has had a fantastic season and when neville isn't there adds a bit of the old guard at the back.
Campbell is nowhere near good enough for internationals, compared to other players we have in that position. From what I've seen of Pompey recently, he hasn't been performing there either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Up front. What can you say, we lack quality English Strikers. I look at Rooney and then think who else. Even Rooney is seeming a bit drab these days. With this in mind make Rooney the centre of attention.
The problem is that Rooney is the center of attention. When he broke into the England line-up, he was providing something new and different. Previous to that, we'd been playing Heskey and Owen, predominantly, which promoted a style with long passing past the back four, stretching the play between the wings (even if we had no natural left winger) which gave us space. When Rooney broke through he had the benefit of this space, and now teams know that we don't have the pace and anticipation of Owen so can afford to be a lot tighter on us, which produces performances from the boy like tonight.

The loss of Owen to injury, ill-form and a lack of pace is the thing that's really changed the England team recently. We have noone else who was as willing to run after balls all night, on the offchance that one might come of. Now we just whack it forward because Crouch might get a knock on or Rooney might do something smart with it. This means we are listless and generally providing lesser teams with a much easier time of it. Having to wory about a pacy forward, with the quality of dead balls of David Beckham behind him makes it a lot riskier to just flood the final third of the pitch, which any team can do and will always do.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 00:06   #8
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
When was the last time that England appeared to play with any passion?
1966?
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 00:29   #9
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

Incidentally today marks the first day since 1967 that Scotland have become Unofficial World Champions . Given we're currently ranked 16th in the world and have never advanced beyond the first stage of a major tournament (even when we had the likes of dalgliesh playing), theres a strong argument to be made that if Scotland somehow manage to qualify this is truly the golden era of scottish international football.

oh god
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 01:01   #10
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

You sound like a Villa fan clinging onto past glories looking to pastures new with hope.

Good luck with that.

Jakiri some fantastic points, I shall respond later.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 01:12   #11
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

England lack structure. Badly. I'm sure everyone has their role in that side but when you add them all together you end up a tad short of a football team. Part of the problem is that their club sides, Utd, Pool, Chelsea, Spurs all play in very different ways and have far greater differences in style than most continental sides from the same nation would have. There's this daft idea that all English sides play a "high tempo" game and therefore it's all compatible but this tactical similarity is minor compared to the differences. If McClaren wants success he needs to pick a style that the largest number of his players are comfortable with and have the others adopt to a role in it. Seeing good players like Rooney and Gerrard get wasted and frustrated during England games is just silly. Fundamentally while they know what they're doing at club level they're effectively rudderless on the international stage.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 01:18   #12
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

i wouldnt say rooney was any less disjointed today for england than he has been for man utd most of the season.

I also wouldnt agree that campbell has been shit for portsmouth. They're one of just 3 teams outside the big 4 to have a positive goal difference, and its not because of their free flowing attacking football, i can tell you that
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 01:18   #13
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

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Seeing good players like Rooney and Gerrard get wasted and frustrated during England games is just silly. Fundamentally while they know what they're doing at club level they're effectively rudderless on the international stage.
But would you rather see Gerrard frustrated or have England play like Liverpool?

there is a massive lack of Welsh in this thread. Having not watched the match (why would I?) I can't really add any input in that regard but I have tickets to see them play San Marino (bulk buy for home games) so I'll comment on that game, though God know why. At best it'll be classified as 'not embarassing'.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 01:22   #14
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

Rooney at least knows what he's doing with Utd and although he has had a sub-par season sprinkled with a few great games when it comes to England he's had a sub-par four years. And if you read what mark wrote he's more referring to pompey recently deffeh.

Oh and Ireland were bad. Wales were worse. Make of that what you will.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 02:31   #15
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
I also wouldnt agree that campbell has been shit for portsmouth. They're one of just 3 teams outside the big 4 to have a positive goal difference, and its not because of their free flowing attacking football, i can tell you that
Pompey also have the 19th worst form in the top division.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 02:41   #16
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

This is because Pompey can't score goals, rather than we are conceding buckets of them, aside from our terrible showing against Blackburn. There's also a suspicion that now we're safe, the team isn't really trying too hard, because we set our targets too low.

I'm more than happy with Campbell. His recovery and last ditch challenges have been absolutely top drawer this season. Steadying the Portsmouth ship at the back is some achievement, considering that usually we ship loads.
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Unread 25 Mar 2007, 18:54   #17
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

So disaffected with England, I didn't even watch. I'm half angry we can't even beat Israel, and half surprised we didn't loose to them. We have 11 talented players, but no team. JBG for manager.
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Unread 26 Mar 2007, 00:49   #18
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

I really wish Beckham was back in the England team. he is one of the world's leading free kick takers and one of the world's best crosser / long passer. I think this merits a place in the starting 11. He is getting less pacy as the years go by. He also does not have the energy to protect our right back anymore when the team do not have possession. However, in most games he makes a decisive contribution, mainly through precise crosses from the right wing.

I would like to see Lennon play on the left wing - all good wingers can play on both sides, and will do him no harm at all to learn how to use his weaker foot more effectively. In the middle Hargreaves protects the back four, intervening at dangerous moments off the ball. Then its a question of who partners him to advance up the pitch, running into the territory Rooney drops off into. Just like someone suggested earlier, Scholes should be begged to come out of international retirement.

Like that this will ever happen though
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Unread 26 Mar 2007, 01:54   #19
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

I don't follow the tables, but is there a realistic possibility of england not qualifying? ie at what point would we have to start relying on others messing up, or for it to become a mathematical possibility but probably not reality?
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Unread 26 Mar 2007, 02:31   #20
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

Lennon isn't really learning to use his weaker foot though, as all he tends to do is cut inside and nullify his pace.
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Unread 26 Mar 2007, 13:30   #21
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Re: Euro Qualifiers

There was one decent cross with his left foot. I take you point on board, however he is only 19, and there are 10 other players on the pitch who (to a certain extent) should be able to carry him while he is learning. His pace will be an awesome weapon once his final product improves.

Mclaren being his international manager probably isn't helping.
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