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Unread 26 Apr 2014, 14:56   #51
isildurx
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Re: Stats maker

JBG proposed reusing round 37s stats a few years ago, so that's my suggestion;

http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=37

Looking at the planetranks for that round they look alright. With cov ops now being able to steal pods, there could be some new interesting attack-combos too!
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Unread 26 Apr 2014, 15:08   #52
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Re: Stats maker

I was looking for elements of r37 and r42 stats.

http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=42

wouldnt mind a ST round, keep it offensive and good scope to fake meta classes etc.
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Unread 27 Apr 2014, 23:30   #53
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Re: Stats maker

I would propose introducing a Steal2 where the stealers don't die However they MUST be a higher hulls class than they target

For example using this rounds stats

Marauder Cruiser De would be suitable for steal2 / dont die
Cutlass Corvette Fi Co would be steal1 (die apon cap)

If memory serves stealers were made to die due to r18 mass fleetcatches.

Edit - if it does goes ahead it is possible to take elements of r14 stats which are imo the best I've played.
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 00:20   #54
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Re: Stats maker

IIRC they were made to die to reduce the effectiveness of ship farming - both the illegal kind and the bottom feeding kind.
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 08:43   #55
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Re: Stats maker

also higher class is less of an issue than 0-loss steal ships.

It's very easy to change steal to 0 loss steal ships instead of the current steal (there's just a setting), but having both at once will be a problem.
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 09:53   #56
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Re: Stats maker

Did steal with no loss exist once? When it changed to current engine? I mean, don't reuse a set of stats where this was being considered for ziks without making the same consideration or big adjusts.

Should a single target set of stats be accompanied of anslightly increase in gal size(aka bp to 4+1 for example)? So the offensiveness is balanced by galaxies becoming a bit harder to hit.
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 12:36   #57
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Re: Stats maker

Can't someone just tweak these stats?(reduce emp mainly beets)
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 13:21   #58
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadoc View Post
Can't someone just tweak these stats?(reduce emp mainly beets)
I'd rather someone tweak R37 stats :P But I guess changes were made since then that should possibly be kept into consideration? Still, why not sometimes reuse old stats, I'm with you guys there. Had some good stats over the years, no need to always reinvent the wheel so to speak.
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 14:09   #59
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Re: Stats maker

Well, a rushed set of stats would be the worst option. Re-using good old set of stats at regular intervals isn't a bad idea.

The stats from this round could easily be re-used at some point in time, just lower beetle emp res a little and tinker a bit with targettings.
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Unread 28 Apr 2014, 16:47   #60
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
also higher class is less of an issue than 0-loss steal ships.

It's very easy to change steal to 0 loss steal ships instead of the current steal (there's just a setting), but having both at once will be a problem.
I take it we are talking major recoding work if there was 2 types of stealers?
There are aspects of having "offensive/0 loss" stealers and "defensive/die apon capping" stealers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
IIRC they were made to die to reduce the effectiveness of ship farming - both the illegal kind and the bottom feeding kind.
Might be a nice change to have a round where stealers didn't die and see how responsible the PA community is to reintroduce this.
I.E. f*ck it up and its back to stealers dying again the next round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran View Post
Did steal with no loss exist once?
Playing r14 terran was fun especially to cap stolen de to suppliment my existing de... it added a wow factor that has been lacking since. Aye and it was fun to play zik in those days I.E. my r18 was fun.
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Unread 29 Apr 2014, 10:15   #61
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Re: Stats maker

Why not just mode r53 stats a bit and use them for next round. Looking over the stats/rankings there's not one race that stands out as being better than the others, maybe give cath a bit of a boost seeing as they are the least represented in the rankings.
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Unread 29 Apr 2014, 12:18   #62
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Why not just mode r53 stats a bit and use them for next round. Looking over the stats/rankings there's not one race that stands out as being better than the others, maybe give cath a bit of a boost seeing as they are the least represented in the rankings.
Who made r53 stats??
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Unread 29 Apr 2014, 14:22   #63
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Re: Stats maker

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=200062


I did end up having fun with the r53 stats though

Cutlass were insane against cat co is one of the things I remember
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Unread 29 Apr 2014, 16:19   #64
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Re: Stats maker

If Appoco / Pa team decides to make stealers 0 loss for a trial round I would like to volunteer for the stats.
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Unread 29 Apr 2014, 17:07   #65
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadoc View Post
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=200062


I did end up having fun with the r53 stats though

Cutlass were insane against cat co is one of the things I remember
I don't remember any complains about r53 stats too.
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Unread 29 Apr 2014, 18:01   #66
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Re: Stats maker

I vote against re-using r53 stats. With the way PA currently is, there's gonna be about 70% cat + xan with those stats.
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Unread 30 Apr 2014, 17:13   #67
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Re: Stats maker

Well Isilx remember the idea of tweeking an old set, what if we changed the stats to make them look less appealing for cath?
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Unread 30 Apr 2014, 19:36   #68
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Re: Stats maker

More worried about an abundance of xans
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Unread 30 Apr 2014, 20:32   #69
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Re: Stats maker

All you need to know about rd 53 is that CT won ally and arc won planet, for those two reasons alone they should never see the light of day again.

I think we should have a full MT round, just to mix it up a bit
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Unread 30 Apr 2014, 23:22   #70
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Re: Stats maker

Well i'd be down for a full mt round. Suggestions kai?
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Unread 1 May 2014, 01:25   #71
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Re: Stats maker

Recycling or not doesn't matter anything at all. It does not give existing players any more advantage in their selection of race than a newbie. Or you can look at it the other way... New and recycled stats BOTH give experienced players an advantage in their selection of race over a newbie. Analyzing old planet ranks and their races from a specific round that will be a recycled set, will most likely make you pick a race based on wrong intel.
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Unread 1 May 2014, 02:03   #72
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastet View Post
I think you're wrong there. If stats are recycled and existing players remember them of course they would have a distinct advantage over new ones. They could remember what race combo and fleet build worked well, what to build and to avoid, the specific advantages of specific ships or races. How could you say they wouldn't be an advantage over someone new to it all? You don't need the ranks from that round if you or your alliance remember physically what worked and what didn't.

New stats are just as new to existing players as new ones, you still need to analyse them and test them out.

Besides, none of that helps reduce the boredom of playing a familiar set.
You are going at it the wrong way... It does not matter if someone in your alliance remembers the round and what worked back then. It doesn't matter one bit! Everyone has access to stats page, and can analyze what "combo's" as you called it works. And thanks for quoting half of the context.

"Recycling or not doesn't matter anything at all. It does not give existing players any more advantage in their selection of race than a newbie. Or you can look at it the other way... New and recycled stats BOTH give experienced players an advantage in their selection of race over a newbie. "

A total newbie would'nt know how to analyze new stats if he doesn't know how to analyze old stats. The stats page is there, some use 2 minutes to see what's good and what's bad, others use an entire round and still don't figure it out. I've even told several rounds to my fellow ally members what ships to build in what races, and an approx ratio. Yet most tends to go off the path, and water out their value on ships they simply don't need.

Personally i bet there are very few players in planetarion that cares if an old set is modified and reused or a new set is made. It's mostly the same people whining round after round, and they whine for no reason. One round they whine about reusing a set, and the next round they might whine about not reusing.
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Unread 1 May 2014, 02:31   #73
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Re: Stats maker

I'm just gonna throw in some more jibberish then.

"If a student sneaks a peak at some exam answers and knows the answers before the test, they have an advantage over students who go in blind. In the same way players with knowledge of a specific set of stats are better prepared than those unfamiliar with the set. "

Well in this case everyone can sneak peak before round starts, at any time... Noone goes in blind, unless they choose to.

"Whether you know how to read stats or not matters little as a fair bit of your success is trial and error in game live ticking, experiences new players have not had and thus are at a disadvantage because of. In one round Corsairs might have been overly powerful which might not be apparent from glancing at the stats but might only become known when people hoard them and use them. Those same players will remember that and if the stats are unchanged, will know of an advantage."

Everything is apparent from glancing at the stats... So clearly it does matter knowing how to read it. If you look at stats you will see the effects of each ships, their targetting... their init... and Armor/Cost (AC) and Damage/Cost (DC). There is even a stats analyse page on the stats page! For those less fortunate. (I suspect like yourself.)
http://game.planetarion.com/statsanalysis.pl

"You can argue till your blue in the gave but you're still blind if you can't see that."

See what? Your logic? I'm so full of jibberish that either you or I am at the level of BBitcher's logic. (personally i don't believe it's me ofcourse)

Let others judge :-p
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Unread 1 May 2014, 02:50   #74
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastet View Post
How, please explain, can new players hope to possibly have the same insight into the set of stats as players who played the stats, worked out the benefits and apply that experience and their recollection of what worked well. How can that possibly not be an advantage?
Because the things that "worked well" are all over the stats page... I have never ever ever, had an issue of picking what ships to build... Not because of trial and error, but because i look at stats PRE ROUND!

How will new players know what to build from new stats?
You are implying they can't know what to build from old stats, then how the hell are they gonna know what to build on new stats?
An old set is a new set for a new player...

Even if stats were reused, i would still analyse it again, before picking my race. Most old players look at stats... And based on the stats, they pick or based on what someone tells them to pick they pick. It is based on your analyzing skills and understanding of stats.

We can keep arguing, but to me you are as illogical as bbutcher and it's just a waste of time to get your narrow minded mind to see through all my "jibberish". You clearly don't read half of it anyways.

Last edited by TheoDD; 1 May 2014 at 02:59.
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Unread 3 May 2014, 09:25   #75
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Re: Stats maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Well i'd be down for a full mt round. Suggestions kai?
I'm thinking rd 34 or rd 36.

Thing is, I wouldn't want them tweaked, they passed the stat process before so let us play them again.

Key thing to remember is stats have very little influence on a round, it's players and alliances who shape it
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Unread 3 May 2014, 11:05   #76
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Re: Stats maker

R36 at least looks like most races did alright in the ranking, the one exception being etd. SO perhaps try and improve etd.

This being said, I hate MT stats, so boring to just spam three ships.
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