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9 May 2008, 12:11
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#101
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
ok I will reply in slightly more length! the point of my post is at the moment it is possible to be up for a reletively short period and notice and report most of the incommings, at the moment it is possible for one person to do this every day of the round. It is however not possible for this one person to stay up all night every night for 7 weeks (unless they happen to be in the right timezone and unemployed I guess).
I am saying there are some advantages to having the attacks condensed into a small timeframe, it means that small inactive gals with only 1 active overnight player can still be pretty sure of getting all their incomings reported. lengthen the window into which attacks fall and this gets more difficult and there will be more attacks on small gals that are not reported at all and there is therefore no defense at all!
so no I am not saying that losing roids is a bad thing, I am just saying that the whole gal losing roids is a bad thing and is depressing for most players if this has been because there has been no one about to report the incomings. At least if the incomings are reported then if you lose roids its because 1, Ur alliance does not have the ships and/or 2, there has not been enough gal def.
you could say I just like to have my own fate in my own hands
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aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
Last edited by booji; 9 May 2008 at 12:17.
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9 May 2008, 12:29
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#102
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
If most players launch before going to bed, and prelaunch doesn't exist, then you won't have to stay up all night to report most incomings. Of course a few will slip by because some no-lifers launch at 4am, but the majority of incomings will show up before 1am.
Further, with the current situation, reporting has no use if only 1 in 16 people is online every night. Without prelaunch you'll actually have a higher chance of getting defence than you do now.
furball makes a good point about the length of the food chain, and I'm not sure how to counter it. For me that's the first (and so far, only) indicator that maybe this idea isn't as good as I originally thought it was. However, I am still in favour, because in my opinion the benefits still outweigh the costs.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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9 May 2008, 12:34
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#103
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
I guess my reply was mostly a counter to the idea of a prelaunch maximum of 2-3ticks rather than no prelaunch as having a prelaunch of 2-3 ticks would in effect make 2 busy periods, one with the prelaunched attacks launching about 01:00-02:00 and then the late "hardcore launchers" at 04:00-05:00
sorry for being rather unclear and roundabout in my previous posts
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
Last edited by booji; 9 May 2008 at 12:41.
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9 May 2008, 12:35
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#104
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The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Is this longer food chain a bad thing?
Anyone can team up to take out a target together. Maybe it's a good thing to try and get people to work together on more difficult targets, having groups of people does focus more on community building instead of an alliance being a bunch of solo players picking out their own targets.
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9 May 2008, 18:14
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#105
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
you arent even looking at the bigger picture, all you are looking at is, omg i wont be able to launch within <thistimeframe> because i will be asleep, omgomg people who are more active will be able to though, by the feeling in this thread seeing so many people wanting prelaunch to stay is a good thing, because ultimately i think it will benefit those people the most by removing it, people cant seem to get out of the mindset that pa must be played in this way when it doesnt, and its a pity because you yourself were banging on earlier about not seeing the 'bigger picture'
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The 'bigger picture' that you paint is unrealistic.
As soon as you have some players that launch in the early hours then people will need to be online to do something about those incomings. We don't have a big enough playerbase for every alliance to have a decent handful of players from outside a European timezone - and if everyone's having a normal amount of sleep then those incomings won't get covered.
That then means that the players who get up in the early hours have a major advantage - they will grow quicker and become impregnable to more and more players. End result - stagnation and a rubbish game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Is this longer food chain a bad thing?
Anyone can team up to take out a target together. Maybe it's a good thing to try and get people to work together on more difficult targets, having groups of people does focus more on community building instead of an alliance being a bunch of solo players picking out their own targets.
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Yes, it is a bad thing.
Teaming up to take on targets is a laudable idea but it's just not realistic. It's only in well-organised alliances that you get more than a couple of team-ups per night, so you're instantly ruling out a majority of the playerbase. Add to that the problem that the target's alliance can cover the incoming with fewer fleets and you'll quickly find that such ambitious team-ups just aren't practical on a regular basis.
The only way to solve this that I can think of is to make each race particularly vunerable to one class - but we moved away from that style of stats-making many rounds ago.
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Finally free!
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9 May 2008, 19:11
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#106
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but there are always discussions of how activity should be rewarded. if you choose to wake up to launch during the night, thats your benefit. right now some people are prelaunching to +8 and such and going to bed, then waking up when their fleet actually DOES launch.
removing or limiting prelaunch (hell even make the eta tree longer so you can research +1 +2 +3 etc attack prelaunches or something) will cause the same amount of fleets to be sent around, just at different times. instead of being a night only game - planetarion will probably see a move to an all day and night game without any predictable attack patterns. who really knows what will happen though, but something needs to be done about it because its getting out of hand.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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9 May 2008, 19:30
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#107
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Further, if I get online when my attack fleet is eta10, I can check if there's defence, recall a second before the tick, relaunch a second after, again resulting in the same scenarion as when there is no prelaunch at all, namely that of the hardcore player getting up at 4am to launch, only now we've tied up between 2 and 5 defence fleets in the process.
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That's assuming that those 2-5 defenders aren't around to recall and relaunch. If they are, they're rewarded by covering something. If they aren't, then they wouldn't have been around to send defence anyway.
Having prel eta appear on jgps would allow more 'remote' launching, so players should be able to play PA in time frames that better suit them, whilst activity is now rewarded more (in your example, the active attacker gets to dodge defence. The inactive one doesn't).
Removing prelaunch would probably be crippling for game membership whilst the current system severely reduces the power of defence.
The jgp solution rewards high activity whilst less active players now get more chance to defend. I think its merits are large enough to be considered.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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9 May 2008, 22:58
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#108
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Drink is Good
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,122
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
No its you failing to see the bigger picture... the game is far more challenging and hardcore and there is more to do when the lesser active people from alliance can move their fleets along with others (regardless what is the lt.) I am sure veedeejm and others speaking behalf of keeping pre-launch can variate their game play and launch times to own you anytime regardless. But simply the pre-launch allows alliances to start more from same line (read the most likely happening scenarios above, if we make it activity contest.)
But I am sure we can still remove the pre-launch aslong as something comes in to balance the efects.
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i actually see the bigger picture fine, infact im one of the worst offenders of prelaunch, i use it goto bed and wont wakeup till morning, simple. The fact of the matter is, its my personal opinion that the benefits of removing it actually outweigh the negatives.
__________________
Can we please have a moment of silence...........
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9 May 2008, 23:22
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
If most players launch before going to bed, and prelaunch doesn't exist, then you won't have to stay up all night to report most incomings. Of course a few will slip by because some no-lifers launch at 4am, but the majority of incomings will show up before 1am.
Further, with the current situation, reporting has no use if only 1 in 16 people is online every night. Without prelaunch you'll actually have a higher chance of getting defence than you do now.
furball makes a good point about the length of the food chain, and I'm not sure how to counter it. For me that's the first (and so far, only) indicator that maybe this idea isn't as good as I originally thought it was. However, I am still in favour, because in my opinion the benefits still outweigh the costs.
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since when someone dont whine if attack is arranged before 1 am? that goes allready beyond the hours man should be awake (unless he is drunken ) simply I tought u had been around long enough to know all patterns.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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11 May 2008, 01:11
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#110
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 227
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
I'm all for getting rid of prelaunches alltogether, its typical, when i was young i couldnt be on late at night, now im a young adult with time to burn inbetween masturbation, they put feckin prelaunch on.
Anyhow, slight problem with your idea... If you get rid of Prelaunch for proper attacks, and keep prelaunch for fakes, then if ppl jgp themselves and see prelaunched, then they'd know its fake, therefore completely wasting the point of "fake"
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11 May 2008, 08:12
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#111
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
someone uses it anyway?
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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11 May 2008, 08:34
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#112
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Disc.
Anyhow, slight problem with your idea... If you get rid of Prelaunch for proper attacks, and keep prelaunch for fakes, then if ppl jgp themselves and see prelaunched, then they'd know its fake, therefore completely wasting the point of "fake"
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That's completely true.
It would limit the usefulness of fakes to offline people in active galaxies who either dont regularly JGP themselves, and/or are unable to JGP themselves (eg, early round), in preperation for a proper raid or whatever.
Then again, fakes are pretty rarely used anyway.
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
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11 May 2008, 11:12
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
I'd start playing again if pre-launch would be removed. For me the problem usually is being online when targets are picked since I'm not around at that time
Removing it would cause problems too though, so I'd suggest limiting pre-launch attacks to only 1 fleet. Keep the rest as it is. That would also more or less likely improve defence, since it would remove 3-fleet attackers that pre-launch and go to bed, and then wake up when it's too late to defend.
Same thing with those that send out all their fleet in 2 pre-launched waves to attack.
And yes, I do beleive it would reduce hardcore doublebooking as it is now, so you actually have a chance of defending waves when it's not every shipclass coming at you in 1 tick. Ofcourse doublebooking is alot more common these days with a smaller universe than before, but I think having only 1 pre-launch fleet would spread the attacks more around the clock. Maybe counterattacks would get alot more common too.
I say try this. It's not a huge change, and people would still be able to send out 1 attack fleet every night and sleep if they wanna take it easy.
__________________
Adapt has never been an official ND HC. He was on his way to promotion for some reason, but then got denied promotion. Lol at the muppet claiming he has been
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12 May 2008, 13:48
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#114
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 39
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
And yes, I do beleive it would reduce hardcore doublebooking as it is now, so you actually have a chance of defending waves when it's not every shipclass coming at you in 1 tick. Ofcourse doublebooking is alot more common these days with a smaller universe than before, but I think having only 1 pre-launch fleet would spread the attacks more around the clock. Maybe counterattacks would get alot more common too.
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The problem with double booking is another big problem all together.
You only see few doublebookings in the beginning in the round, but when you hit week 4, you see it happening ALL too often.
Lets face it, at week 4 you will have only 50 gals left with an decent number of roids/value players. For the last couple of days, i landed without the other planet bothering to remove his fleet.. So, we can assume that the player just dropped playing completely.
Anyway back to pelaunch. During midround you will have players with FI with full tech (8 ticks attacking) and new planets with only BS (14 ticks attack) so how wouild you like to solve this?? Assuming ofcourse that most of the attacks will be coordinated in an ally.. An AC already has to take into account that he needs to pick target gals which has planets that caters to most of his members.. But if he to take into account that his FI attackers with full tech needs to be awake ANOTHER 6 hours.. ??
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12 May 2008, 19:03
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#115
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Drink is Good
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,122
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
its upto the player which race he goes, if he wants fast eta attacks then he can have them, i dont really see your point, elaborate a bit more?
__________________
Can we please have a moment of silence...........
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12 May 2008, 19:26
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#116
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
Anyway back to pelaunch. During midround you will have players with FI with full tech (8 ticks attacking) and new planets with only BS (14 ticks attack) so how wouild you like to solve this?? Assuming ofcourse that most of the attacks will be coordinated in an ally.. An AC already has to take into account that he needs to pick target gals which has planets that caters to most of his members.. But if he to take into account that his FI attackers with full tech needs to be awake ANOTHER 6 hours.. ??
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That depends whether you co-ordinate by launch tick or landing tick, doesn't it?
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12 May 2008, 20:23
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 39
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
its upto the player which race he goes, if he wants fast eta attacks then he can have them, i dont really see your point, elaborate a bit more?
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An ally raid normally tries to organize their attack in waves. So (for an example) the first wave lands at GMT 12.00, the second one at GMT 13.00. If you give out the targets at 23.00 GMT, The first wave got 13 hour to get there. Removing prelaunch will mean that Fighters will have to launch at 04.00 GMT and BS will launch at 02.00,,, Well, if you remove prelaunch I expect that LT will get earlier to give players an option launch sooner.. So, let assume LT will become 10.00 GMT, the fighters will need to launch at 02.00 and the BS at 00.00
Basically it means that FAST ETA for Fighter/corvette attackers means less sleep or that they need to stay up to launch Also attacks will become predictable.. first you get the fighter/corvettes waves and then the slower waves... Matters will get more complex if you get more members with less technology (no full speed) and who join later on. Making them way less effective in ally raids.. and even less likely to be accepted into an ally...
If you give small ships an small prelaunch (lets say 2 hours) then nothing will change.. As the first waves will be able to prelaunch two hours and the first waves will be spotted at 02.00 anyway..
In short, remove prelaunch and ally raids will become less effective and more predictable.. Doesn't sound that much fun to me.
Humm, i am still a big supporter for removing prelaunch in attacks, but maybe its time to reconsider the flying times for ships all together??
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12 May 2008, 21:47
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#118
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Drink is Good
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,122
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
what kind of bc gives first wave to cr/bs anyway?
i'll say a bit more since you took the time to respond. As i said its the players choice whether he goes fi/o attacking race though, is it not? If he feels he can handle it then let him be it, i see no problem, there are other races for people to select from.
__________________
Can we please have a moment of silence...........
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12 May 2008, 22:32
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#119
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
In short, remove prelaunch and ally raids will become less effective and more predictable.. Doesn't sound that much fun to me.
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Sorry but I really don't think you know what you're talking about.
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Finally free!
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13 May 2008, 14:19
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#120
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
An ally raid normally tries to organize their attack in waves. So (for an example) the first wave lands at GMT 12.00, the second one at GMT 13.00. If you give out the targets at 23.00 GMT, The first wave got 13 hour to get there. Removing prelaunch will mean that Fighters will have to launch at 04.00 GMT and BS will launch at 02.00,,, Well, if you remove prelaunch I expect that LT will get earlier to give players an option launch sooner.. So, let assume LT will become 10.00 GMT, the fighters will need to launch at 02.00 and the BS at 00.00
Basically it means that FAST ETA for Fighter/corvette attackers means less sleep or that they need to stay up to launch Also attacks will become predictable.. first you get the fighter/corvettes waves and then the slower waves... Matters will get more complex if you get more members with less technology (no full speed) and who join later on. Making them way less effective in ally raids.. and even less likely to be accepted into an ally...
If you give small ships an small prelaunch (lets say 2 hours) then nothing will change.. As the first waves will be able to prelaunch two hours and the first waves will be spotted at 02.00 anyway..
In short, remove prelaunch and ally raids will become less effective and more predictable.. Doesn't sound that much fun to me.
Humm, i am still a big supporter for removing prelaunch in attacks, but maybe its time to reconsider the flying times for ships all together??
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huh? the BS/CR waves will always show before the CO waves...cause they have eta+2 compared to em...(if they are launched to land the same tick that is *edited*)
that has nothing to do with prelaunch
and therefor ur argument that attacks will get more predictable is not true.
actually they get less predictible, as the gal doesnt know it will get incs until they show up on galstatus
Last edited by M0RPH3US; 13 May 2008 at 14:36.
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14 May 2008, 11:34
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#121
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the Jinsomniac
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bergen
Posts: 49
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
I cba to read all the posts here, but there is one obvious negative effect by this idea: the players. Many of the players would quit or go inactive if this idea was implented. Those left who play PA would be more serious, but we would lose perhaps 3/4 of our memberbase.
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14 May 2008, 11:39
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#122
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinstarro
I cba to read all the posts here, but there is one obvious negative effect by this idea: the players. Many of the players would quit or go inactive if this idea was implented. Those left who play PA would be more serious, but we would lose perhaps 3/4 of our memberbase.
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There are 4 main suggestions;
- remove prelaunch
- change # of ticks (eg allow attacks to be prelaunched 3 ticks before, defence 9 ticks)
- have prelaunch eta's appear on jgps
- leave things as they are
If you have any comments to share about these, which you'd prefer, any other ideas etc, please do.
Personally I'm leaning towards #3. Possibly with a modification that if you have prelaunched fleets on you when it ticks, you get a news update - 'our intelligence centre has detected prelaunched fleets' etc.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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14 May 2008, 12:46
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#123
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinstarro
I cba to read all the posts here, but there is one obvious negative effect by this idea: the players. Many of the players would quit or go inactive if this idea was implented. Those left who play PA would be more serious, but we would lose perhaps 3/4 of our memberbase.
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If you *had* bothered to read the thread you'd have seen that we've addressed this issue. In brief:
1/ There is no evidence to support your assertion.
2/ The game is steadily losing players already.
3/ Prelaunch is one of the factors which makes the game too boring to retain (most of) the new players who appear.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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16 May 2008, 14:53
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#124
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 39
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
If you *had* bothered to read the thread you'd have seen that we've addressed this issue. In brief:
1/ There is no evidence to support your assertion.
2/ The game is steadily losing players already.
3/ Prelaunch is one of the factors which makes the game too boring to retain (most of) the new players who appear.
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Well, about that boring part.. At some stage of the game you get LESS and LESS targets you can hit, making you to attack the same targets over and over again. The fact that not everyone can use the same ships is actually reducing the number of targets you can take.. Perlaunches are making attacks more and more predictable, they will launch when you are asleep (which they can check with an simple check at sandmans) they launch, wait till eta4 (or 5) check for def and recall..
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17 May 2008, 06:06
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#125
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 36
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
what if prelaunch attack uses up some resources per tick? that can surely motivate players from getting up late and launching their attack huh?
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R23 #32 9:5:5 eXilition Zik
R24 #5 5:4:4 Conspiracy Xan
R26 #33 8:3:7 NoX Zik
R28 #3 2:10:8 Äscendäncy Etd
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23 May 2008, 13:26
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#126
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Legionaire
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: nld
Posts: 50
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
remove it, for everyone who whines about not being able to attack at 3:00 at night. Be happy that half of the game wont be able to launch at 3:00. From now on you will be online more often when you get incs. and the gamefun is spread around the day.
NO prelaunched worked for many and many rounds. and nobody complained.
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and: NoS/FanG/Jenova/CT/DLR
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Round 9 - 10.5 (Nos/FanG)
Round 22 - 23 (Jenova)
Round 24 - 28 (CT HC)
Round 31 (DLR)
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25 May 2008, 14:33
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#127
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
remove it, for everyone who whines about not being able to attack at 3:00 at night. Be happy that half of the game wont be able to launch at 3:00. From now on you will be online more often when you get incs. and the gamefun is spread around the day.
NO prelaunched worked for many and many rounds. and nobody complained.
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i think that post says all !!! thx
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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30 May 2008, 13:07
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#128
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Mercenary
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
I have to agree with Ronin on this one.
IMO if someone wants to spend their "sleeping time" playing planetarion and therefore reaping the benefits, then that is there choice. Activity should be rewarded.
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Ultores
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31 May 2008, 01:41
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#129
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
make a cov op able to disrupt prelaunched fleets, that would be fun
If the prelauncher is online he'll have to redo the prelaunch, if he's sleeping, too bad he'll have a surprise.
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31 May 2008, 02:56
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#130
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;D!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
I have to agree with Ronin on this one.
IMO if someone wants to spend their "sleeping time" playing planetarion and therefore reaping the benefits, then that is there choice. Activity should be rewarded.
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Activity can be rewarded by having attack prelaunch eta appear on jgps without destroying some people's ability to play the game.
For example, I would choose never to play again if prelaunch was removed. I'm certain there are others who feel the same way; and many new players who won't try to get involved if they think they have to get up at 3am to properly play what is basically MMO excel.
Allowing prel etas to appear on jgps allows people to launch for when they'll be around to scan and calc whilst allowing active players to sort out defence properly without having to get everyone up at 3am. Meanwhile, those who're active are rewarded by not being picked up by jgps, or by getting defence against attacks that aren't picked up by jgps.
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[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
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31 May 2008, 07:24
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#131
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
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Originally Posted by Makhil
make a cov op able to disrupt prelaunched fleets, that would be fun
If the prelauncher is online he'll have to redo the prelaunch, if he's sleeping, too bad he'll have a surprise.
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that sounds like a fun option tbh.... but I fear it would mess things up bit too much.
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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31 May 2008, 11:02
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#132
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
It would just be too ****ing annoying.
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Finally free!
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31 May 2008, 11:24
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#133
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
I actually like it. Alot. It would only work if the covert op is successful on you, thus if you dont want to have your prelaunch stuffed with, have a high(er) security level. Seems pretty straightforward really, and is fairly balanced if you just keep it to +/- 1 tick (or two, if you xy agents like twice as many thus highly improbable to succeed).
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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31 May 2008, 14:08
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#134
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 279
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
it should stay as it is, some people still have jobs to go to. And yes, i believe pa will lose a lot of the current players interested to play it.
Replacing those will be hard if not impossible.
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Co founder ODDR
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31 May 2008, 23:58
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#135
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Most of the arguments for keeping prelaunch are "all the attacks happen in the night, you need to prelaunch if you want to stand a chance etc."
However if prelaunch for attack was to be removed, due to the non-hardcore nature of the majority of players, the game would probably change quite a bit. People would start to attack at different times and make it more interesting. Like mz has said; some people will still get up in the middle of the night but there aren't anywhere near as many as there were when prelaunch was implemented.
In the past, lack of prelaunch caused those who were unable to get up in the middle of the night to lose out, yes. That's because most attacks were in the middle of the night when lots of people got up to attack. Now, most of the playerbase seems to be non-hardcore and prelaunch is being used a lot. If it were to be removed, the game wouldn't be unplayable for these people. They would be able to attack at different times of the day.
The game would be a lot more fun if the action wasn't restricted to the night time when most people are asleep. And waking up to calc and sort defence out isn't very fun.
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I put the sex in dyslexia!
Last edited by _Kila_; 1 Jun 2008 at 00:09.
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1 Jun 2008, 07:11
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#136
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Old Dog
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
IMO I don't think attack times will change. Attacking when MOST everyone is sleeping is the best strategy.
I do have other thoughts about Prelaunch though. Prelaunch allows you to HIDE your fleet. I don't think that is fair.
PA is a "real time" game played 24/7. Planets and fleets are supposed to be available and subject to attack, unless you are in Vacation mode. Being able to hide your fleet is equal to taking it out of the game. That is unfair. A fleet should either be flying or available for battle. You should not be able to hide your fleet.
So, my suggetion is to keep prelaunch BUT include the fleet in battles until it is actually launched.
That would also address the issue of having people check the game more often at night.
Anyway, my thoughts.
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I don't forget.
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1 Jun 2008, 11:34
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#137
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaro
IMO I don't think attack times will change. Attacking when MOST everyone is sleeping is the best strategy.
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So what happens when it isn't viable for 90% of the playerbase anymore? do they just not attack or what?
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I put the sex in dyslexia!
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1 Jun 2008, 11:58
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#138
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
How good would a compromise me? Attack prelaunch of an hour or two, such that you can still co-ordinate your launch with people of other ship classes and so on, but break the possibility of say setting your fleet to launch at 3am when you go to bed at 10pm, and then getting up at 8am to scan before you go off to work (and thus recall if you need to) or somesuch. A much shorter prelaunch would reduce/eliminate this kind of 'lazy attacking' that is promoting the 3am or later launches (and defence). But, its better than no prelaunch at all, because it means you dont need to stay up for that last excruciating hour whilst waiting for the right window. Thus, it still helps people in that regard.
THoughts?
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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1 Jun 2008, 12:22
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#139
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
How good would a compromise me? Attack prelaunch of an hour or two, such that you can still co-ordinate your launch with people of other ship classes and so on, but break the possibility of say setting your fleet to launch at 3am when you go to bed at 10pm, and then getting up at 8am to scan before you go off to work (and thus recall if you need to) or somesuch. A much shorter prelaunch would reduce/eliminate this kind of 'lazy attacking' that is promoting the 3am or later launches (and defence). But, its better than no prelaunch at all, because it means you dont need to stay up for that last excruciating hour whilst waiting for the right window. Thus, it still helps people in that regard.
Thoughts?
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agreed this could be a possibilityand was suggested before i think.
or in addition or instead of that, the possibility to track when those incs will actually approach. Like a additional scan or a covert operation showing it.
Or add the prelaunch eta to the returning eta of a fleet. There is many many ways to take care of the prelaunch thingy and change it without having to remove it at all.
Another possibility was suggested earlier i like it the most, a covert operation hitting the jumpgate, delaying the prelaunched landing fleet for 1-3 ticks if succesful ? This could be a way to get a attacker recall right away, when he wakes up and sees his fleet didnt launch yet, cause a covert operation delayed it for 2 ticks.
This ofc would have a impact on galaxyraids, as ppl would piggy each other if they get delayed to a later wave, and ofc harder for the target planet to defend such a wave then, but i guess its still better to loose roids for 1 tick then as for 2.
This covert op should only be possible for the targeted planet (like the incoming scan works only for ur planet), so no alliances cov opert teams can go around covert opping everyone who prelaunched.
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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1 Jun 2008, 13:21
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#140
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Coder/Fixer/Lover/Winnah
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
i haven't read through the thread so i'm just gonna spew my thoughts out.
it boils down to this, removing prelaunch will reduce playerbase. many people wont stay up or get up in time to launch in the traditional way.
i've read a couple of posts saying that prelaunch is destroying the original PA, good. change is good, if you can't cope with change go live in a cave.
However i think a reduction in prelaunch would be a good idea, being able to launch upto 12 ticks or whatever in the future is too much. reducing it to 3 or so ticks prelaunch would still keep the playerbase and maybe start getting the players who launch stupidly far into the future a bit more hard core.
just my opinion
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1 Jun 2008, 14:31
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#141
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenore
i haven't read through the thread so i'm just gonna spew my thoughts out.
it boils down to this, removing prelaunch will reduce playerbase. many people wont stay up or get up in time to launch in the traditional way.
i've read a couple of posts saying that prelaunch is destroying the original PA, good. change is good, if you can't cope with change go live in a cave.
However i think a reduction in prelaunch would be a good idea, being able to launch upto 12 ticks or whatever in the future is too much. reducing it to 3 or so ticks prelaunch would still keep the playerbase and maybe start getting the players who launch stupidly far into the future a bit more hard core.
just my opinion
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Ok, now read the thread.
It won't reduce the playerbase because players will adapt and attack at times when they can be around to launch. Those who get up in the middle of the night to attack will have an advantage but I don't think there are still many people who play hardcore like that around.
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I put the sex in dyslexia!
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1 Jun 2008, 14:36
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#142
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
Ok, now read the thread.
It won't reduce the playerbase because players will adapt and attack at times when they can be around to launch. Those who get up in the middle of the night to attack will have an advantage but I don't think there are still many people who play hardcore like that around.
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it will be harder for them to find enough ppl to join em at least, which means no 3 wave attacks on ur gals in the middle of the night (europe)
maybe 1 wave, 2 if ur unlucky, but prolly less coverage, so those will prolly notice it may make more sense to launch when everyone else does, so either in the late evening or early morning (depends what alliances do)
Pa is loosing Playerbase no matter what, doubt Prelaunch is keeping guys here, with all those incoming fleets in the middle of the night.
For me (if i wouldnt have enough time to play at nights, like i do atm) it would be a reason to leave PA, as i canīt be online to organise defence for me.
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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1 Jun 2008, 15:07
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#143
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The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Just take some steps to reduce it this round to see the effect of it, otherwise any other changes would have to wait another 10 weeks if people want it.
Put in a maximum prelaunch of 3-4 ticks for attacking and see how it works out. At least we wouldn't see prelaunched fleets on a jumpgate scan and end up wondering how many hours later the incoming fleet is, it would be within a few hours instead of 6 hours or so - which some attackers end up doing.
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2 Jun 2008, 10:54
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#144
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Coder/Fixer/Lover/Winnah
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
Pa is loosing Playerbase no matter what
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you have the facts to back this up ofc
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2 Jun 2008, 13:18
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#145
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenore
you have the facts to back this up ofc
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tbh no i dont have developing numbers for every single round.
i played last in r10 and came back r26
its less players now (which is a fact)
ppl talk about PA loosing playerbase (thats a fact2)
so no, i dont have really facts to proove it, still i got the intention it is fact that pa looses playerbase.
proove me wrong pls, as i canīt proove me right
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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2 Jun 2008, 16:39
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#146
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Coder/Fixer/Lover/Winnah
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
the number if signups has been quite steady for the last few rounds.
yes there's a lot less people playing now then 6/7 years ago
btw you shouldn't really call gossip facts
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2 Jun 2008, 20:30
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#147
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
number of signups =/= number of active/playing planets.
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I put the sex in dyslexia!
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13 Jun 2008, 23:01
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#148
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Vengeance just lost the first new player this round
due to the fact he got 5 waves the first and 3 waves the second night and another 3 waves the third night (while beeing on 200 - 300 roids)
He left PA forever, took him 1 week to realize this is crap (and he was active and motivated all those days)
i seriously dont think that without prelaunch he would have seen that massive incs, as waving gals in the way we have it atm, will be much tougher to organise.
u may argument now, that a player who leaves after 2 nights of incomings has nothing to do in PA anyhow, and maybe ur right about that, but i am seriously asking which new player wants to play a game like this.
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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14 Jun 2008, 01:09
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#149
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
He left PA forever
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At this very moment, I'm playing the world's smallest violin, just for him.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Jun 2008, 13:02
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#150
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Remove Prelaunches
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
Vengeance just lost the first new player this round
due to the fact he got 5 waves the first and 3 waves the second night and another 3 waves the third night (while beeing on 200 - 300 roids)
He left PA forever, took him 1 week to realize this is crap (and he was active and motivated all those days)
i seriously dont think that without prelaunch he would have seen that massive incs, as waving gals in the way we have it atm, will be much tougher to organise.
u may argument now, that a player who leaves after 2 nights of incomings has nothing to do in PA anyhow, and maybe ur right about that, but i am seriously asking which new player wants to play a game like this.
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and why u didnt def any of them?
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If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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