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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 08:28   #1
Soron
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manual R10

Will there be complete manual posted before sign up starts?
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 08:30   #2
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nfi, just hope its better than last rounds 'efforts'.
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 10:41   #3
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As there will be a public beta during signup, i doubt the manual will be ready for the 25th. But it should be ok before ticks start.
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 11:28   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Makhil
As there will be a public beta during signup, i doubt the manual will be ready for the 25th. But it should be ok before ticks start.

Not quite sure.... how will you choose a race in start plan without it?
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 15:21   #5
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I am not sure you need a manual.
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 15:39   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bashar
I am not sure you need a manual.
If there is one thing I'm absolutley sure of it's that for the new game, you NEED a manual!
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 15:44   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy_r
If there is one thing I'm absolutley sure of it's that for the new game, you NEED a manual!
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 16:19   #8
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You most certainly will need a manual for r10.
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 16:20   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bashar
I am not sure you need a manual.


writing a manaul for some ppl is just a plain waste of time as they won't understand it anyways =)
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 19:28   #10
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People who think there will be a manual out before the round start, is what I would call optimists.
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Unread 21 Aug 2003, 20:57   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cochese
You most certainly will need a manual for r10.
I thought they made the game easier. Hmmz /me wonders if he will bother to sign up. :-/
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 10:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerbie
I thought they made the game easier. Hmmz /me wonders if he will bother to sign up. :-/
Newbies will have less need for a manual for r10 than they had for previous rounds.
Veterans however will have a lot more need for a manual than previous rounds.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 10:21   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soron
Not quite sure.... how will you choose a race in start plan without it?
I would imagine you can change your race before tick starts, as has been the case for the last few rounds.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 10:58   #14
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It really doesnt matter which race you pick, as theres basicaly no difference anymore.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 13:37   #15
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There is most certainly a manual for R10
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 13:40   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by dabult
People who think there will be a manual out before the round start, is what I would call optimists.
Actually, I’d call me one of the guys that have already written it, although I am also an optimist too.

So yes, just to reassure you, there WILL be a manual, it should be available within a few days. (Might even be before signups open )
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 15:18   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerbie
I thought they made the game easier. Hmmz /me wonders if he will bother to sign up. :-/

It's not that it's any more difficult, just that it's different, so it helps to know what certain constructions do before you build one you don't need at the very beginning, etc etc.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 16:00   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaneED
There is most certainly a manual for R10
If there is a manual, where is it? I don't care much to know that it most certainly exists, we need it to play.
When you buy a new digital VCR for instance, you need a manual. Nobody can sell a new product without a proper manual, that makes no sense. Concerning the fact that we will have this manual before the first tick or not, it's not the point. The point is to have it before we have to pay (you will need your VCR's specifications before buying it).
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 16:03   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by WebAngel
If there is a manual, where is it? I don't care much to know that it most certainly exists, we need it to play.
Are you playing yet? I believe the game doesn't start for a few more weeks.

By the time you will be playing the game, you will also have access to the manual.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 17:20   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
It really doesnt matter which race you pick, as theres basicaly no difference anymore.
ROFL
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 17:21   #21
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The manual will be in place well before tickstart, and probably just a few days after signup starts.
Your race can be changed ingame, no worries.

The manual is afaik almost ready as we speak, but need some fixing up wit the new combat stuff etc.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 21:22   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by
Leshy


Are you playing yet? I believe the game doesn't start for a few more weeks.

By the time you will be playing the game, you will also have access to the manual.
First of all, please use your brain, I would not need any manual if I was playing yet!!
And last point this is a strategy game, how can you have any strategy if you don't know the rules IN ADVANCE to plan and set a strategy? Having the manual in the game is of almost no use for many players. Can you tell me how many hits are done to the manual pages while the round 9.5 was going on? Close to none I bet because everybody knew the rules before it starts (but the stats).


Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
The manual will be in place well before tickstart, and probably just a few days after signup starts.
Your race can be changed ingame, no worries.

The manual is afaik almost ready as we speak, but need some fixing up wit the new combat stuff etc.
It is always possible to wait a few days to know the manual before signing up.
Thank you Spinner, that's great. Keep on with the good job
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 23:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by WebAngel
First of all, please use your brain, I would not need any manual if I was playing yet!!
But you're not, so you don't need a manual either. Unless you make it a habit of reading manuals to things that haven't even finished production yet.
Quote:
And last point this is a strategy game, how can you have any strategy if you don't know the rules IN ADVANCE to plan and set a strategy?
As said several times before, which you seem to be ignoring consistently: the manual will be out well in advance before the game is finished. The fact that it isn't out now doesn't matter, because the game isn't out now either, nor tomorrow, nor next week.
Quote:
Close to none I bet
You lose.
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Unread 22 Aug 2003, 23:54   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
As said several times before, which you seem to be ignoring consistently: the manual will be out well in advance before the game is finished. The fact that it isn't out now doesn't matter, because the game isn't out now either, nor tomorrow, nor next week.
Some people just like planning ahead. Like people who set up alliances and stuff. I am considering putting my time in some kind of junior alliance.
The question is: will it be worth it: can this game attract and hold new players; will my ideas work for them and for my alliance. If so, how should I organize it? Who should I contact for that? Then I need to contact the right people. Have meetings, get the technical means, and when ready to go, start proclaiming. If I do it right. If I do it that way, by the time I'm ready the round will be half over.
I'm still stuck at that first question. I've almost given up. And I'm pissed off. Not just about that. I don't expect that first question to be answered till halfway the public beta. Then it's too late. It's already late.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 00:01   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerbie
Some people just like planning ahead.
It doesn't take that much time to give the manual a read-through, and an afternoon of planning should be more than enough to come up with the strategy you'd like to follow. Without any shipstats or formula's, and most importantly, an idea of how the game plays out with everyone in, planning ahead is limited at best.
Quote:
The question is: will it be worth it: can this game attract and hold new players; will my ideas work for them and for my alliance.
The answer to that question isn't going to be in the manual. It's going to be inside the game itself.
Quote:
I've almost given up. And I'm pissed off.
All that without even having seen any of the game. Don't you think it's a bit early to worry?

Besides, one of the problems with old PA was that everyone already had the round entirely mapped out before PT 1. You don't fire up your Age of Empires with a whole strategy plan of how you're going to win the map - you play and adapt to how the game is progressing.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:08   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
It doesn't take that much time to give the manual a read-through, and an afternoon of planning should be more than enough to come up with the strategy you'd like to follow. Without any shipstats or formula's, and most importantly, an idea of how the game plays out with everyone in, planning ahead is limited at best.
The answer to that question isn't going to be in the manual. It's going to be inside the game itself.
All that without even having seen any of the game. Don't you think it's a bit early to worry?

Besides, one of the problems with old PA was that everyone already had the round entirely mapped out before PT 1. You don't fire up your Age of Empires with a whole strategy plan of how you're going to win the map - you play and adapt to how the game is progressing.
Have you ever play planetarion or are you playing fool just to make us mad?
I guess that you have not ever read our posts. Read up please we DO NEED a manual way before playing just because some want to know the game they will pay for, there is nothing to say agaist that its not evern about the rules its about to know what you are buying... so we need that manual before the tick start its not matter of are you playing yet or not. psss sorry but you are neither smart nor diplomat in your answers, you'd better not post at all, all you are doing is making ppl more and more mad for nothing Spinner tell us everything we need to know period!
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:19   #27
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I must say i agree with Webangel. All this hidden formulas and "you will find out what you get when you buy it" strategy seems like a joke.
Someone who has or wants to invest 15 euros would normally like to know what he spends his money for. You might claim in r1 they didnt know what they played either but sorry to say it but they didnt pay 15 euros.
You normally dont go to cinenma in a radom film just to get rid of your money.
Surely there are cinesneaks but imagine that you exspect ALL your customers to gamble on this. So your cinedom would only be offering cinesnekas without any regular shows. What do you think, how long would your business make it before you can close it for good ?
A few posters said it earlier you cant force your customers to all follow a certain way of behaving, some might not care some might play by their heart, others have fun playing after plans and to work out things. If you remove this ability from them and base their welldoing purely on the try and error and luck you will lose this kind of clients if that is wanted or intended im not sure because i cant see any financial gain for pa from it, if it loses existing customers.

P.S. the advertising seems not really firing off a great bunch of new customers either because ive not seen any of them joining in raw masses #planetarion or spamming this boards with questions.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:20   #28
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i'm afraid i have to agree with WA here :/
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:23   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
You don't fire up your Age of Empires with a whole strategy plan of how you're going to win the map - you play and adapt to how the game is progressing.
Actually, yes you do.
Or at least the best players do.

When I'm plaing WC3 I have EVERY possible situation planned out before the game loads.
If this happens, I counter with this, ect.
You simply can't sit there, wait to find out what your oponent did, then counter it, you've already lost in that situation.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:32   #30
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As stated previously by spinner and NB3 in this thread, the manual will be available well before ticks are starting. You can change your race after signup so there is nothing to worry about, you will have the time and opportunity to decide for a strategy in round 10. So pitchforks and torches can be put away for now
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:35   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by WebAngel
Have you ever play planetarion or are you playing fool just to make us mad?
As has been stated several times already, the manual will be out well in time for ticks. Complaining about the lack of a manual before the public beta has even started is somewhat early, wouldn't you agree?
Quote:
Read up please we DO NEED a manual way before playing just because some want to know the game they will pay for
Which is why there is a public beta, why there will be a manual and why you have a two-week free period of playing before you're required to pay. If you go to the store to buy a game, you don't demand to read the entire manual before you buy the game either.
Quote:
so we need that manual before the tick start its not matter of are you playing yet or not.
Have I at any point said that the manual would not be there in time for tick start? I am saying that you are kicking up a fuss about the presence of a manual way too early, since the game is still undergoing beta testing and ticks won't start for another 16 days at least.

Or, to summarize so you don't misunderstand: The manual is not out now, but will be well in time.
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When I'm plaing WC3 I have EVERY possible situation planned out before the game loads.
That's called experience
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 18:19   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback

Someone who has or wants to invest 15 euros would normally like to know what he spends his money for. You might claim in r1 they didnt know what they played either but sorry to say it but they didnt pay 15 euros.
hmm, it seems to me that every time one buy a computer game (more than 15 € btw), the manual is inside the sealed box, so in order to read it, one has to pay first. hehe...
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 18:51   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Makhil
hmm, it seems to me that every time one buy a computer game (more than 15 € btw), the manual is inside the sealed box, so in order to read it, one has to pay first. hehe...
I always read the reviews before I buy, however. Waiting until the reviews are out on PA X probably means a late(r) start (assuming it does get reviewed), which many existing players would regard as a major disadvantage.

Playing the beta or reading people's comments about the beta are also helpful, but beta testers aren't supposed to be talking about the beta plus beta isn't the real game. And of course it's still being tweaked.

People want to see the manual as early as possible because they're interested. I'm a bit mystified why anyone wouldn't see that as a Good Thing.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 22:30   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Makhil
hmm, it seems to me that every time one buy a computer game (more than 15 € btw), the manual is inside the sealed box, so in order to read it, one has to pay first. hehe...
I usually buy a game magazine and watch regularly Giga-tv which is part of the nbc network (a pure gamersprogram) to inform myself about the stuff i buy. I admit i have bought already twice sh1t in a box to say so, but generally collecting previews and ahead information seems to be a good thing so i dont see a point in delaying this information from a customer. Esepcially since the most advertising way is still the mouth to mouth way, and an early manual would be "youve heared about pa X ? its great you should try it, this is the manual -link-" rather than "you kow about pa X its great, costs 15 euros and i cant tell you sh1t all about it because they keep it secret"
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 01:14   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
I must say i agree with Webangel. All this hidden formulas and "you will find out what you get when you buy it" strategy seems like a joke.
When you bought C&C Generals, did it have a copy of the source code with combat formulas and equations in the manual?

When you bought Warcraft 3 did it also have a copy of all combat formulas in the manual?

No. They have DESCRIPTIONS, which is what will be in the manual for r10.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 08:36   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Petru
When you bought C&C Generals, did it have a copy of the source code with combat formulas and equations in the manual?

When you bought Warcraft 3 did it also have a copy of all combat formulas in the manual?

No. They have DESCRIPTIONS, which is what will be in the manual for r10.
Ive not bought C&C generals.
And when i bought Warcraft 3 indeed i had a few hours after purchasing the game the "combatformulas", the "spells" and an "value list for all units".
Blizzard gives this sources out freely for their customers. Even from the TFT-addon the information was known way before the actual start (infact the only changes appeared from the patch comeing the day after i bought it).

While all the games you named above had pretty advertising and alot of previews in various gamenetworks i still miss how you can compare that with planetarion, because neither is done from/for pa, so infact the manual is the only advertising you can give a new customer (if you exclude the pa advert which says alot about pa )
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 13:16   #37
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I don't know what you do in Germany but there were no detailed formulae in my Warcraft 3 manual, heh.

My point is, a manual in most games is a guide, not a breakdown of the games mechanics and source code. There are games that give detailed formulae, but it's not a pre-requisite for a games existance or success.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 13:35   #38
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Petru you might want to reread my post again.
With no word i said that it was in the manual itself, just that blizzard gives out this informations freely to its customers.
On the otherhand you cant compare PA to Computergames simply as you cant compare PA to boardgames like risk.
Most Online games offer a manual a few weeks before the start to their customers. You might show me where i only talked about the formulas as this seems to be the keypoint you are getting off on. This thread was about the lack of the manual in general and about the long period of time between last round and the new round without any valid informations with which you could attract new customers.

P.S. if you are talking of a guide i would be very interested where you have seen that yet in pa, as far as i know the manual recommended terrans as defaultrace and to follow the quests (we all know what a good strategy that was) and ofc to build the highly effective pds. I personally felt this wasnt really a guide.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 14:45   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Petru
No. They have DESCRIPTIONS, which is what will be in the manual for r10.
Its hard for people to work out farming and other underhand techniques accurately without exact details tho

Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
And when i bought Warcraft 3 indeed i had a few hours after purchasing the game the "combatformulas", the "spells" and an "value list for all units".
Blizzard gives this sources out freely for their customers. Even from the TFT-addon the information was known way before the actual start (infact the only changes appeared from the patch comeing the day after i bought it).
So your the type of person that looks up cheat codes and game guides as soon as you get a new game then?

Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
All this hidden formulas and "you will find out what you get when you buy it" strategy seems like a joke.
Someone who has or wants to invest 15 euros would normally like to know what he spends his money for.
Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
While all the games you named above had pretty advertising and alot of previews in various gamenetworks i still miss how you can compare that with planetarion, because neither is done from/for pa, so infact the manual is the only advertising you can give a new customer (if you exclude the pa advert which says alot about pa )
When you buy a new PC game you don't know exactly how to play it, you buy it because it appeals to you and it looks good. But then I suppose you do play against the computer, and the computer normally doesn't mock you like we could when you turn out to be crap at it - are you scared that you might not be good at PA R10 Focht (and WebAngel)?

Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
P.S. the advertising seems not really firing off a great bunch of new customers either because ive not seen any of them joining in raw masses #planetarion or spamming this boards with questions.
Its quite likely that any potential new players that visit the boards are totally put off by people such as you who are constantly moaning about it. If you don't like it then **** off, make room for someone who does and let them form their own opinion.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 14:50   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maddix
Its quite likely that any potential new players that visit the boards are totally put off by people such as you who are constantly moaning about it. If you don't like it then **** off, make room for someone who does and let them form their own opinion.
Although I would have put it in another wrap, these are my thoughts exactly.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 15:20   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maddix
So your the type of person that looks up cheat codes and game guides as soon as you get a new game then?
So you are the type of person which is to retarded to know the difference between cheat codes/game guides and working out a strategy yourself with informations from the creator of a game ?

Quote:
When you buy a new PC game you don't know exactly how to play it, you buy it because it appeals to you and it looks good. But then I suppose you do play against the computer, and the computer normally doesn't mock you like we could when you turn out to be crap at it - are you scared that you might not be good at PA R10 Focht (and WebAngel)?
Youve heared of Previews ? Your inability to read previous posts is striking, so you would be a person who buys everything just to test it out later, you are either rich or very stupid.
About beeing Crap in pa, looking on your achievements tells everything so i wont go into any competition with you on it and im certainly not scared about r10 simply as its likely ill not play it and will maybe in the last part of the round make an account to fiddle with it (the joy of vacations maddix, you should try to get away from the comp from time to time)

Quote:
Its quite likely that any potential new players that visit the boards are totally put off by people such as you who are constantly moaning about it. If you don't like it then **** off, make room for someone who does and let them form their own opinion.
Sure thing any new player would be like "there is no information about the game and current players complain about that, how sad im not playing that game". Go and live in your little dreamworld Maddix and the advice to fk off you should consider yourself because apparently you cant follow a discussion without falling in your little personal harassment of me. Which i must admit is funny and i enjoy to have a stalker, so keep the show on maddix, if you cant play the game you can still be a hero on this boards
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 15:36   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback

Sure thing any new player would be like "there is no information about the game and current players complain about that, how sad im not playing that game".
You are exagerating here Focht. I think Maddix wanted to point out that most complaints regarding the current information about PA-X, or the lack thereof have been issued by now. Ranting on and on about it, starting endless amounts of threads about it, is not in any of our benefit, as it will indeed, keep players from joining the game.

I think we should wait until we saw the public beta, and see what the community reactions on that are.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 16:07   #43
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To sum up a real large bunch of PA crew do believe in Santa Claus and are trying to make us believe in it too. Stop it please, it's just pathetic. I do read the game review before buying a game I do wait for my friends to play it before buying. I any case I don't buy a game before knowing a bit about it. It's the same for everything and it's just a common use for everybody (but PA crew maybe).
This time I dont have to wait or not for buying it since I have my account already paid for r10 but this game has another impact on my life style. I spend a significant amount of time on it but that can change of course. If I don't like this new PA I wont spend my time on it more than I have to and I need to know it asap to plan some trips here and there... hence it's important for me to know the rules to find out if I can like PA X or not. I dont care to know if the interceptor will have such or such an armor unless it makes the game unbalanced and pointless. The point is that I have no clue how it's gonna work at all and I need to know.

P.S: No Wipey, I don't care much to win or not you know. I have not always been on the winning side and I am still here... (same for Focht I bet).
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 16:45   #44
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Hi Webby

Quote:
Originally posted by WebAngel
snip
You are pointing out something PA crew has acknowledged already: they are having a public beta, free of charge, giving you the opportunity to see for yourself. Patience is a virtue, you know.

Quote:

P.S: No Wipey, I don't care much to win or not you know. I have not always been on the winning side and I am still here... (same for Focht I bet).
I never said you did, did I? Show me where I implied that.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 18:08   #45
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Do some people have nothing better to do than complain anything they can, and then when there is nothing to complain about just invent a reason to complain and then go ahead with it?!

Spinner has said the manual will be in place before the ticks start. There will be a 2 week free trial. There will be a public beta before the ticks start.

Complaining that you dont know what you are getting for your money is beyond ridiculous when you have the chance to play the game before paying.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 18:08   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by WebAngel
I do read the game review before buying a game I do wait for my friends to play it before buying. I any case I don't buy a game before knowing a bit about it. It's the same for everything and it's just a common use for everybody (but PA crew maybe).
That premise, which is different from many of your other arguments, sounds hideously boring. If you never buy a CD from a band you've barely or never heard of, pick up a game just to see what it is, do something different just to see what it's like, you're going to end up without ever bringing something new into your own life. And I don't see how that is better than 'believing in Santa Claus'.

That said, the manual should be available before ticks start because discussing new tactics and strategies is fun and we want something fun to do before ticks start.
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 19:01   #47
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[Cool down, there is no need to turn this into a flame-fest.]
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 21:48   #48
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Unread 25 Aug 2003, 01:06   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Banned
That premise, which is different from many of your other arguments, sounds hideously boring. If you never buy a CD from a band you've barely or never heard of, pick up a game just to see what it is, do something different just to see what it's like, you're going to end up without ever bringing something new into your own life. And I don't see how that is better than 'believing in Santa Claus'.

That said, the manual should be available before ticks start because discussing new tactics and strategies is fun and we want something fun to do before ticks start.
I don't know who you are to make any judgment on my way of buying a CD. I am pretty sure that I am buying more CDs than you are and that my life not that boring don't worry ;-)
I am just tired to see such an hypocrisy when everybody in PA crew is telling us blah blah blah you don't need the manual yet because its not ticking yet. They just want to cover their own decisions.
First of all we do need this manual and they have no clue why. Then they pretend to know our life and way of thinking better than we do ourself, but who are you guys?
Then, don't forget one thing we are customers, we are giving money for goods and/or services. This is our right to ask for those services and and your duty is not to make any judgement of value on whether it is a good thing or not. All we need is a clear answer and I am old enough to look after myself now, I don't need anyone to know if I need to know something about PA X or not.
But, once more, Spinner said it all, we will have a manual before the first tick and even before the end of sign up so everything is fine for me but this habit some have to know better than I do what I wanna do/like/think. I do need that manual, you dont even have to know why and I am not alone asking for it (if you are not sure about that, then let's conduct a poll and see).
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Unread 25 Aug 2003, 02:08   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maddix
Its quite likely that any potential new players that visit the boards are totally put off by people such as you who are constantly moaning about it. If you don't like it then **** off, make room for someone who does and let them form their own opinion.
Same poster in another thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by Maddix
PA R10 will be killed by lack of information being supplied to the player base, not by the P2P. This is partially linked to the elevated price of the game, but then who wants to stick around and waste time on 'possibly' spending £10 on a game they know fk all about?
Pot, Kettle, Black

I talked about the lack of information supplied and look who made the same point
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