OK. Newdawn

[Chika]

Originally Posted by cypher

ND has done well in some points and bad in others...

for example no-one expected them to be #2 at the start of this round.
also their attacks were very effective.

However bad things are imo that they recruited up to 98 members while they started a war with reunion when they did the same (and they even took in quite a few of the same guys)

politics was good and bad... avoiding most wars worked at the start... but cancelling war with lch twice after they basically announced one to it's members is bad obviously as it's not good for morale... and maybe they should have hit 1up earlier.. but indeed as lokken said... with gate/fish/nef on holiday + more maybe that would have been a very hard task

Also someone said going half cath/half xan was good. That's a point which i really think is bad. I mean just look at the way 1up played round 13... ALOT of cath, which means you dont have killing power... and then xan being shit this round. i really don't see how it's a good thing for any alliance.

With the #1 roiding race and no incoming, they were allowed to grow at a very expotential rate. Mining 3k-4k roids all round, while 1up members were only mining 1k-2k roids at a time due to the war. Thats the advantage they had of going cath. the disadvantage was, when they actually did fight, (we all know cath, with no help get roided pretty easy) the roids were mostly free. it was either move your fleet or die. Even when people more than half thier size atatcked them.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

loads of valid points

The point you are missing Rob, is that there are numerous posts about ND starting the hostilities with 1up. It was not a large scale hostile action, we just wanted roids, and I was close to getting yours And also, 1 gal attack hardly declares war on the scale of 300ish inc fleets.

As I said in a previous post, the reason for the large scale recruitment was mainly - WP, SiN and dS, with a few LCH too.

It is hard to turn down good members. The dS at the end was an attempt to get us on a level(ish) playing field to fight a war with 1up.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

The point you are missing Rob, is that there are numerous posts about ND starting the hostilities with 1up. It was not a large scale hostile action, we just wanted roids, and I was close to getting yours And also, 1 gal attack hardly declares war on the scale of 300ish inc fleets.

I'd be interested to know what you consider large scale then?

You sent approximately 6 waves on 4 of the biggest 1up planets one night and then more than 6 waves on a large 1up HC gal. The 1up were particularly targetted in both instances by having more waves than any other equally as 'hittable' target in each galaxy.

These planets have all been doing pretty well all round and have therefore not just become "fat" targets yet over the period of two nights 7 large 1up planets get an approximate combined total of 40 waves on them from ND. If this was never intended to be construed as an act of specific hostility then you made a very poor judgement call and one has to suggest you consider the outcomes of your actions with a great deal more care to avoid such confusion in the future.

[Desse]

Originally Posted by Neferti

1up like their fake fleets, I have noticed.

It works pretty well though. The night we hit ND hard, I had 6499 spiders and 1 Guardian keeping 6 ND fleets going way into the night. -

[Remy]

Originally Posted by Troll

Hello, my name is Troll and I hate LCH

My counter parts in DLR also do not love LCH but to be fair only I really, really hate them.

omg, you really hate us don't you. And that while we never even noticed your existance much. We atatcked you or something?

Can you please realise this is a game of a few thousend idiots who click buttons on a browser. If you really really hate us, then you are infact saying that you wouldnt mind if one of us died from a car accident, or you would even want to murder one of us.

I don't mind some flaming, but i think that you overstepped in this case.

[]LCH[]Remy, HC

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Remy

omg, you really hate us don't you. And that while we never even noticed your existance much. We atatcked you or something?

Can you please realise this is a game of a few thousend idiots who click buttons on a browser. If you really really hate us, then you are infact saying that you wouldnt mind if one of us died from a car accident, or you would even want to murder one of us.

I don't mind some flaming, but i think that you overstepped in this case.

[]LCH[]Remy, HC

Agreed.
To really realy hate a whole alliance with a lot of hate is just pure childish.
Its a ****ing game so wish ppl wouldnt get so emotional over it.

[Spritfire]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

Hmm. Except for the fact that the 1up planets were opened up for 5 waves (I eventually got 6 ), while everyone else was limited to 2-3 waves.

For your information.

How many waves a planet get is decided by its roids.
So I guess you where roidfat, or you hadd a real sucky planet based on xp and no def fleet.

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by Spritfire

For your information.

How many waves a planet get is decided by its roids.
So I guess you where roidfat, or you hadd a real sucky planet based on xp and no def fleet.

Guilty on both counts, m'lud (well, ok, I wasn't entirely based on XP, but my value wasn't all that high for my roid count).

My point is that this doesn't matter. Do you really expect 1up to say "Ah, we see you're attacking our members. However, since they're pretty roid-fat this is entirely understandable, in fact they probably deserve it! Carry on, we won't hit you back "?

I already agreed that this wasn't an intentional declaration of war by ND. But this raises the question of just what ND expected 1up to do in response. In my opinion, ND should have either thrown everything at 1up, or nothing at all. Hitting enough planets to piss 1up off, but not enough to do any damage was a somewhat poor strategy.

[Morden]

Good point Rob.

Basically it sends the Message: "Im an idiot, Im incompetant, why dont you come and kill me"

Its like firing a 9mm gun at a tank........ You get its attention, but then you die afterwards...... when it fires a shell at you...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

My point is that this doesn't matter. Do you really expect 1up to say "Ah, we see you're attacking our members. However, since they're pretty roid-fat this is entirely understandable, in fact they probably deserve it! Carry on, we won't hit you back "?

Do you mean that's NOT the right approach?

[Spritfire]

When doing gal attacks. Isn't it usuall to wave the big ones more than the small one's ?

I think I remember someone saying nd was doing n00b bashing.
So sending more waves at a big planet is n00b bashing ?

[Neferti]

Originally Posted by Spritfire

When doing gal attacks. Isn't it usuall to wave the big ones more than the small one's ?

I think I remember someone saying nd was doing n00b bashing.
So sending more waves at a big planet is n00b bashing ?

That would make 1up noobs then?

But remember that the person saying ND was bashing was an idiot and nobody agreed with him

[jupp]

Originally Posted by Neferti

That would make 1up noobs then?

n00b bashing is like - bashing the n00b not bashed by n00bs :xmas:

[RiXX]

Alright, I don't want this thread to come off as negative, but it just keeps itching at me.

It's been my experience in life that whenever anyone says "I don't mean to be a ****" or "Now don't get me wrong" then they generally mean what they're about to say as you hear it. If you didn't want this thread to come off as negative(yet it comes off like kicking a man when he's down some may say) you shouldn't have had to lead into conversation proclaiming so.

Perhaps a little thought next time would be useful before you hit the post button, and a little less belligerence if you did actually want to make a point.

[JonnyBGood]

NewDawn were rather unlucky in that they seem to have lost key guys at the wrong moments. Unfortunately this can also be considered as a lack of prior planning (although frankly I doubt anyone considers those sorts of things that much). They played an intelligent political game which avoided a lot of incoming for the early part of the round, as usually people's expectations of how an alliance will do, ie everyone thinking ND would barely be t10 this round, meant their incoming was rather low as well. Some of their allies, and potential allies, seemed to fall to pieces as well, however this can also be considered as a lack of proper intelligence and inadequacies in contingency planning.

I don't really give much credit to the whole "1up has better members and that's why we lost" idea either. Clearly it's true, the track record of many of them rather demonstrates this. However motivation and politics can make up for a lot. Too many people pussy-foot around 1up because they've got this image of godlike superiority. You know how you combat that? You go in and you hit the ****s. And then do you know what you do? You get someone else to go in and hit the ****s. It sort of goes on like this for a while. You don't sit around and hand them the initiative. You don't forget that shit does happen and you do lose HC due to illness and allies due to lack of cohesion. So when you're in a strong position, you don't always wait to be in an even stronger one. Remember that even if your alliance doesn't start off with the goal of winning the round when opportunity comes knocking you grab it by the ****ing balls and don't let go. I can't imagine why your members seemed to get bored or tired after a fair portion of the round spent growing steadily. If anything I'd expect them to be raring to go with the chance of the most spectacular victory in PA history in sight.

Due plaudits to the way you played the early round but the loss of slightly under 25% of your roids in the past week does not reflect well on your alliance.

On the amusing side of things everyone will **** 1up next round and if exilition come back it's likely that they'll win 2 out of 2 rounds versus 1up which should go down a bomb on here.

[lokken]

If people didn't get the point of my first post, I'll elaborate it again.

Go whine about how shit the alliances who crumbled did and who didn't turn in a respectable performance did, instead of an alliance that did its job, and more.

Seriously, isn't anyone concerned with the fact that 4 or 5 alliances just went splat this round? That to me is the most worrying thing in PA.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by lokken

If people didn't get the point of my first post, I'll elaborate it again.

Go whine about how shit the alliances who crumbled did and who didn't turn in a respectable performance did, instead of an alliance that did its job, and more.

Seriously, isn't anyone concerned with the fact that 4 or 5 alliances just went splat this round? That to me is the most worrying thing in PA.

Lokken, you keep trying to "force a point". When you fail to realize that you are only reniforcing the whole "noone left", or "no proper incoming". Other alliances dying has nothing to do with ND. Thats a form of you trying to blame the universe for dying. You should be thanking the universe. Due to most alliances dying you landed #2. Who did you fight to earn your #2? Reunion?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by lokken

If people didn't get the point of my first post, I'll elaborate it again.

Go whine about how shit the alliances who crumbled did and who didn't turn in a respectable performance did, instead of an alliance that did its job, and more.

Seriously, isn't anyone concerned with the fact that 4 or 5 alliances just went splat this round? That to me is the most worrying thing in PA.

I think everyone acknowledges that they, or rather their HC mostly, did a shit job. It's slightly worrying but as it's only a one round thing so far it lacks the sort of momentum required to make it a major issue. It's probably more important than the performance of an individual alliance in terms of the entire game, but it's something incredibly difficult to address even if there is a real problem with the likelihood of continuing on into next round there. The three alliances that collapsed this round are hydra, insomnia and LCH if I'm not mistaken? Of these one was a BG untried at alliance level, one was untried at a high level of PA and the last hasn't completely collapsed and will be playing next round (correct if I'm wrong on the details here). Not exactly something to break out the gathering drums over.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

NewDawn were rather unlucky in that they seem to have lost key guys at the wrong moments. Unfortunately this can also be considered as a lack of prior planning (although frankly I doubt anyone considers those sorts of things that much).
...
I don't really give much credit to the whole "1up has better members and that's why we lost" idea either. Clearly it's true, the track record of many of them rather demonstrates this. However motivation and politics can make up for a lot.

To me this highlights a vital difference between ND and 1up. We lost some key people early in the LCH war to real life issues (including both people who setup the attack groups and defense relays in the early days of the round). However, rather than simply crumbling into disorganisation, 1up can always find someone else to fulfill a command role. Hell, I hadn't done military stuff since round 9 in Elysium, but this round I've been jumping in to MO and setup attack channels when needed. That's the key difference really - 1up always seems to have someone spare for any role.
Even Storebo.

[Zo0f]

While NewDawn have made improvements on their past few rounds (pretty much all to do with replacing the HC in my opinion), this round has been full of wasted opportunities and potential.

Starting the round I had many conversations with Gate where he explained that ND were just trying to rebuild and get their footing in the universe. I questioned this at the time, as ND was looking stronger than it ever had before even at such an early stage. In the end they seemed to get the message and change their plans/goals for the round. Sadly this had started the trend for the round, of ND reacting constantly to being slapped in the face with things. Wether it was realising how good they could actually perform, someone dropping a NAP, an alliance falling apart under strain or the top alliance finally going full force at them.

On the other hand it is very easy to see all the missed chances now, once it has all gone by. Hence all I hope is that they have learnt and gained experience from the missed opportunities/potential and will not miss it next time.

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Chika

Lokken, you keep trying to "force a point". When you fail to realize that you are only reniforcing the whole "noone left", or "no proper incoming". Other alliances dying has nothing to do with ND. Thats a form of you trying to blame the universe for dying. You should be thanking the universe. Due to most alliances dying you landed #2. Who did you fight to earn your #2? Reunion?

You may have noticed that we had actually overtaken Insomnia before they collapsed, and that we consequently were ranked third, right behind LCH (on whom we were gaining rapidly as well).

[Agerus]

no wonder if you gain against LCH while they are busy fighting 1up

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Agerus

no wonder if you gain against LCH while they are busy fighting 1up

Sorry to pick on you but I really hate this way of looking at things. I see lots of people using this sort of logic and also using the "yeah but we did well not to get into a bad situation" approach. The two are not exactly compatible in terms of summing up an overall viewpoint of how alliances have performed over the round. You either measure military force or you measure military and political force. You shouldn't hop back and forwards between the two (sorry if you don't do this agerus but I always forget to post these things when I leave them and then I only have myself to blame when I get annoyed later).

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

On the amusing side of things everyone will **** 1up next round and if exilition come back it's likely that they'll win 2 out of 2 rounds versus 1up which should go down a bomb on here.

a bit presumptuous wouldn't you say?

[jupp]

from what we seen last round it seems to be a suitable and working possibility to stop 1up from winning a round. After this great success *again* i am sure there are enough candidates for a "fraction" against 1up who might have missed or did not use their chance this round.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

a bit presumptuous wouldn't you say?

Well obviously I wouldn't because I did say that would happen. However I have a solid track record with these things for some strange reason and it's really just a bit of fun as I pointed out with my use of the words "on the amusing side of things..."

[ComradeRob]

You don't need to be the world's greatest PA genius to know that alliances very very rarely win two consecutive rounds. A 1up defeat next round is a highly likely scenario (everyone beaten by 1up this round will want revenge and Exilition are smart enough to know how to use that to their advantage).

(go go 1up reverse psychology propaganda)

[G.K Zhukov]

Obviously Rob.

Im a bit surprised that nobody have asked if eXhiltion stayed away for this round, just becouse of such a reason..

[aNgRyDuCk]

there's a reason we actually PLAY the rounds, isn't there? nothing is pre determined, and remember, a lot of ppl hate Exil as well...nothing is certain, thats why we log in and launch. To predict round 15's outcome before round 14 has ended seems kinda rediculous to me

[jupp]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

there's a reason we actually PLAY the rounds, isn't there? nothing is pre determined, and remember, a lot of ppl hate Exil as well...nothing is certain, thats why we log in and launch. To predict round 15's outcome before round 14 has ended seems kinda rediculous to me

but it happens every round again - ppl like the idea to predict things, especially in PA. and we have so many ppl here that in the end at least 1 can say : " ha ha i was right about <insert highly important stuff here> (AGAIN) "

and AD is there to create opinions so if it helps to get ppl on the 1up or eXi side already now before the round even started, why not use this tool to achieve this.

But i have to agree that from my view it is too early as well to say anything about r15. We dont even know which alliances will play and what suprises PA-Team prepared for us

Happy guessing!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

there's a reason we actually PLAY the rounds, isn't there? nothing is pre determined, and remember, a lot of ppl hate Exil as well...nothing is certain, thats why we log in and launch. To predict round 15's outcome before round 14 has ended seems kinda rediculous to me

You do remember who started the r14 predictions thread don't you? Obviously nothing is set in stone but to ignore the lessons "history" teaches us is just silly.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Obviously Rob.

Im a bit surprised that nobody have asked if eXhiltion stayed away for this round, just becouse of such a reason..

I thought everyone took that as written.

1) Avoid the bashing the round after winning
2) let 1up take the win
3) ride in on a wave of 1up dislike
4) create uber block again
5) use it to take the round
6) bleat forever on AD how you 'whupped 1up, just like last time' and how you have never been defeated
7) Retire for a round
8) Repeat

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I thought everyone took that as written.

3) ride in on a wave of 1up dislike

And U are sure making a fine job making everyone hate you.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Kargool

And U are sure making a fine job making everyone hate you.

Thank you. Always nice to hear about a job well done

[The_Fish]

I agree with Kargool, its that arrogance after victory that makes people want revenge.

[Kargool]

Yeah, I especially like that nap with 6:10 and giving all the members of 6:10 ND's coords.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

I agree with Kargool, its that arrogance after victory that makes people want revenge.

gladly you people are free of it.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

I agree with Kargool, its that arrogance after victory that makes people want revenge.

Difference is, 1up has been acting on AD like this since their first round, yet with all the hate they manage to get on them, they still win rounds

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

I agree with Kargool, its that arrogance after victory that makes people want revenge.

It'd be nice if you could furnish us with evidence of arrogance. I don't remember too many posts saying "hah - we kicked all your asses, we are VICTORIOUS!1111111111111!!!111"

Thats a fairly harsh statement to make tbh.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Legator

gladly you people are free of it.

Healthy arrogance is permitted ... if you don't believe your alliance is the best and that your members are better then those of other alliances then how can you expect to ever win?

First step to winning is actually BELIEVING that you CAN win !!

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

It'd be nice if you could furnish us with evidence of arrogance. I don't remember too many posts saying "hah - we kicked all your asses, we are VICTORIOUS!1111111111111!!!111"

Thats a fairly harsh statement to make tbh.

look at the avg post made by pple like Chika. The arrogance is dripping of him

Or are you here denying the arrogance alot of 1up posters show? I'm not denying I'm arrogant either btw.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

look at the avg post made by pple like Chika. The arrogance is dripping of him

Or are you here denying the arrogance alot of 1up posters show? I'm not denying I'm arrogant either btw.

Chika has his own posting style, I won't deny it can be very inflamatory. However, I think it's somewhat unfair to judge a whole alliance by one poster. Seeing other examples of genuine arrogance would be nice. I might also remind theres a distinct difference between arrogance and stating facts.

[jupp]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Healthy arrogance is permitted ... if you don't believe your alliance is the best and that your members are better then those of other alliances then how can you expect to ever win?

First step to winning is actually BELIEVING that you CAN win !!

first step to win is being realistic and believe in the chance to win once you have reached a certain level with your alliance. i dont think that arrogance is a vital point in winning a round.

Believing in your alliance : yes.
Being proud of what you have achieved : yes
Looking forward to a round win : yes
Being arrogant : no

\o/

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Chika has his own posting style, I won't deny it can be very inflamatory. However, I think it's somewhat unfair to judge a whole alliance by one poster. Seeing other examples of genuine arrogance would be nice. I might also remind theres a distinct difference between arrogance and stating facts.

It's the way that facts are stated which comes across as overly arrogant in certain cases.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

It's the way that facts are stated which comes across as overly arrogant in certain cases.

Then we'll have to agree to differ. I haven't seen anything that can be construed as arrogance.

[Zo0f]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

It'd be nice if you could furnish us with evidence of arrogance. I don't remember too many posts saying "hah - we kicked all your asses, we are VICTORIOUS!1111111111111!!!111"

Originally Posted by I am Idler

You all suck and we are #1.

ner ner ner ner

[ReligFree]

What an absolutely pointlessly crap post...

Originally Posted by Chika

Angels played thier round last round. If you can recall, ANGELS got that the shit beat out of them at one point, and then they "bounced" back.

Angels got 2 nights of incoming last round before they left the block war and then they got no more sustained incoming.

NewDawn took 300 hostile fleets on nights, and yeah as you can imagine we actually did drop some roids. 10% to 300 hostiles? Not bad imo.


And in your first post (i cba to go quote that too) you comment about Reunion being a new ally and playing as a core. iirc ND played the vast majority of this round with less members than Reunion and had a heck of a lot better score. There is a role reversal now i agree with ND having more members than Reunion, but hey, maybe we can hold on to our members better than they can? Give them what they want etc..

Basically mate you really have no idea wtf your talking about, your not in NewDawn, you dont know how ND have done this round so please go mash your potato's about someone else. :xmas:

ReligFree - Acting attacks HC

[Morden]

I think you'll find that a lot of those 300 fleets were the same ones launched over and over again.

if 300 real fleets were launched and actually landed, then I think the loss would be a little higher than 10%.

End of the day, even with 100-200 real fleets, only losing 10% is still not bad, there's no need to justify it, by claiming obsurd amounts of incomming.

Besides, despite all the incomming ND is still ranked #2, the only way that will change is if ND falls apart.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Zo0f

I suspect Idler may have just been having a bit of fun and that, if you're being serious, you most likely took his post out of context.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by ReligFree

And in your first post (i cba to go quote that too) you comment about Reunion being a new ally and playing as a core. iirc ND played the vast majority of this round with less members than Reunion and had a heck of a lot better score. There is a role reversal now i agree with ND having more members than Reunion, but hey, maybe we can hold on to our members better than they can? Give them what they want etc..

Basically mate you really have no idea wtf your talking about, your not in NewDawn, you dont know how ND have done this round so please go mash your potato's about someone else. :xmas:

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewall...ry=all#history

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewall...ry=all#history


Check about the memberbase it wasnt really "vast majority" of this round.

Get your facts right. there was no really significant differense.