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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 11:30   #1
All Systems Go
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A new history of the 20th century

I've seen some adverts on tv for a history programme that investigates the history of the 20th century. I think it might be on the BBC, but I'm not sure.

Does anyone know where and when this is on and if an episode has already been shown? Also, what is it called?
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 11:33   #2
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

I think it's a Channel 4 program - called the War of the World?. There's a newsnight review of it here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ew/5065448.stm (half way down the page)
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 11:37   #3
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

I think he got somewhat of a slating off other historians for trying to narrow down causes so much but it should be interesting enough viewing. I saw his book, on this topic on sale as well so I might buy that. I read like the first half of empire which was fairly well written so at least he should be fairly witty and incisive.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 11:54   #4
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

thanks for that. Do channel 4 have their shows on-line like the BBC?

If not, do you know where I could find a copy?
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 15:10   #5
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

I wouldn't say that it's must-see vieweing but it's not bad. It's a bit of a dodgy format for someone like Ferguson though tbh.
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Unread 26 Jun 2006, 23:33   #6
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

If you have Freeview (or other digital channel access) it's being repeated on More4 - seems to be 2 programmes every couple of weeks -- next on 01 & 02 July.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 11:43   #7
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

You can always download it online....
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 12:05   #8
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

There is a better summary of it here:

http://www.channel4.com/history/micr...warworld1.html

I haven't seen it yet though, but it does look extremely interesting. Also, rather than decrying Ferguson for being involved in such a thing I think it would be far more useful to give him the benefit of the doubt, his qualifications appear to be beyond reproach.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 14:50   #9
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

Most of his reasoning is pretty shit tbh. He comes across as an eccentric ex-poly undergraduate half of the time.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 14:51   #10
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Most of his reasoning is pretty shit tbh. He comes across as an eccentric ex-poly undergraduate half of the time.
Whereas you are...
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 14:53   #11
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

post-grad kthnxsbye.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:07   #12
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

And address the ****ing point you drunken Irish negro.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:26   #13
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Most of his reasoning is pretty shit tbh. He comes across as an eccentric ex-poly undergraduate half of the time.
example?

I'm not defending him, but you haven't actually given any evidence, if you and him were having an argument about history I know who I would bet on (no offence). So yeah, examples?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:27   #14
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

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it would be far more useful to give him the benefit of the doubt, his qualifications appear to be beyond reproach.
Oh Henry.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:32   #15
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

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Originally Posted by Deepflow
example?
For example, his seemingly blase and generally awful appraisal of inter-war Japan. 'Japan waz Fascist and Hirohito was a a jap Hitler lolerz' Err, no. I've seen politics people who weren't even historians do better than that. So much of what his argument is based upon seems to be simplistic, and generally he seems to bring everything he touches into a fairly stark monochrome focus; he's stringing together the evidence to fit his theory of ethnic conflict and it predictably falls on it's arse most of the time for anyone who has an even remotely decent knowledge of the subjects concerned. It's probably the worst history programme I've seen on TV for donkey's years. I hope to god his book which the series promotes is a lot better than that.

tbh Niall Ferguson is a bit of a wanker and he goes out for controversy for controversy's sake if you ask me. He's the Lord Denning of historians.

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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:52   #16
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
For example, his seemingly blase and generally awful appraisal of inter-war Japan. 'Japan waz Fascist and Hirohito was a a jap Hitler lolerz'
He said that?

Oh and as for the rest of your post, you could well be right, I didn't see the show The only reason I'm defending him is because I still haven't seen any evidence that he's wrong. Perhaps I have too much of a natural weakness for revisionism :shrug:

All of my posts in this thread are pretty much so that if in 30 years his theories are actually given popular credence I can say I told you so.

Dante, I can't help but think that someone who is head of history at Harvard (i think) and a research fellow at Oxford has to be pretty good at history. The system may be a bit broken, but it can't be THAT bad surely?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:55   #17
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
He said that?
No of course not you ****ing mongchop, but that - as far as he conveyed it in the programme - was basically his underlying argument.

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I still haven't seen any evidence that he's wrong.
I haven't seen any evidence that I'm wrong. Being ****ed in the arse is the most natural thing in the world.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 15:58   #18
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
No of course not you ****ing mongchop, but that - as far as he conveyed it in the programme - was basically his underlying argument.[/b]
I'm relying on your secondary biased interpretation though, that is unacceptable.


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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I haven't seen any evidence that I'm wrong. Being ****ed in the arse is the most natural thing in the world.
Again, with the greatest respect, I'd give what he says primacy over what you say regarding the subject as a matter of course. I don't see how you can criticizse this standpoint.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 16:01   #19
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: A new history of the 20th century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
I don't see how you can criticizse this standpoint.
Okay then, I'll defer to the great all-knowing gods of academia historica who are the only people qualified to talk about history, and who, afaik, generally disagree with his standpoint too.

Mabye I should bring Vishnu in to settle this?
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 16:10   #20
Dante Hicks
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
head of history at Harvard
No.
Quote:
The system may be a bit broken, but it can't be THAT bad surely?
I'd dispute that, but that wasn't really my point. You've not even seen the program but you're willing to defend it on the basis he has some sort of authority. You disappoint me my system hating brother.
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Unread 27 Jun 2006, 16:23   #21
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Re: A new history of the 20th century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
No.
I'd dispute that, but that wasn't really my point. You've not even seen the program but you're willing to defend it on the basis he has some sort of authority. You disappoint me my system hating brother.
I've dissapointed Dante, my life is over

edit: im not sure whether im serious or not, so don't bother asking.
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