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4 Apr 2003, 00:52
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#1
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Founder of Planetarion
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 543
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Round 10, traveltime and alliances
There will be a very definate change in the future rounds of Planetarion, and there is one specific change I would like this forum to have a look at. This means of course, that feedback is both wanted and needed.
The one change I would like to bring to your notice, is traveltime.
It will be a lot more dynamic, and be both possibly shorter and longer, and will impact the game in many ways.
The idea is that of "geography" and a "coordinate system" if you like.
It is in fact a lot longer from 1:1 to 12:12 than it is from 1:1 to 3:3. This should be reflected in traveltime too.
The coming example is just that, an example, the forumla isnt nailed yet, but you get the idea:
Base travel time = 5 ticks. This can be viewed as the amount of time needed to get your ships from your planet and to your local jumpgate.
From there on, the amount of time spent in the jumpgate depends on where you are travelling.
For the sake of argument, we will also say that one shift in X coordinates, takes 1 tick, and one shift in the Y coordinate will take 1 tick.
This means, that going from 1:1 to 1:2 takes a total of
5+1 = 6 ticks.
It also means that going from 1:1 to 1:10 takes 5 + 9 = 14 ticks.
It also means that going from 1:1 to 25:10 takes a mind-blowing 5+24+9=38 ticks.
You probably see where this is going. It will split the universe somewhat so that the edges have little to do with eachother, and one can discuss the benefits / problems with being near "the beginning or the end" as opposed to being "more in the middle".
We might have to make some sort of Maximum Travel Time, i.e. 24 hours each way, I dont know, we can discuss it?
But I know one thing for sure, a big Block will not be able to take full advantage of their sheer numbers anywhere in the universe in 9 ticks, and it makes galaxy positions a lot more interesting and fun. One has to choose between having easy roids nearby, or friends one can depend upon.
I am prepared for the argument (which is bound to come) that I am once again showing my complete incompetence and that I am about to ruin the game once and for all, trying to force people to play more galaxy-based and less alliance based (as one can interpret this), and if you feel that way I hope you tell me.
The argument which will also come, is of course the "problem with running out of good targets" as many are now maybe too far away. True, if a "group of planets" grow too big and control the "vincinity", they can run out of targets after a while. But this is also a bit like it should be, so others can try to catch up a little, rebuild, and, with great joy, be roided again. Those concerned with having little to do when running out of targets for a while, rest assured, there will be a lot more "things to do" in the new and upcoming round.
So, ladies and gentlemen, a word of feedback perhaps?
Pros, Cons, Spinner Sucks, I am quitting etc ... (-:
__________________
- Spinner
Original creator of Planetarion, ManagerLeague and AD2460.
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4 Apr 2003, 00:54
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#2
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Have D|ck Done Travell
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 491
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looks good at least its nice change
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www.planetarion.com
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4 Apr 2003, 00:58
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#3
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: Round 10, traveltime and alliances
Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
...Spinner Sucks, I am quitting etc ... (-:
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You've been here too long, you know them too well :P
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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4 Apr 2003, 00:59
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#4
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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I like the basics of the idea, what I don't like is that defending and attacking with your friends (not alliance) will become quite hard. It will also make going random harder, a lot of people especially in the smaller alliances will be unable to ever defend 90% of the time.
It helps against big alliances, but I'm not too sure if the implications for the 'rest' of the people make it worth it. Especially if you want to develop planetarion to a game that does not have a core of hard gamers, but one that allows for casual play as well.
Out of a population of 50,000 people not even 10% will play hard core, the other 90% will have to deal with not being able to defend the people they know because they are always too late.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:01
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#5
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7H4 B4R73ND3R
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: University of South Florida
Posts: 206
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24 hours? thats a long damn time... I think the idea could work, although i would put a max limit closer to say 15 than 24...
__________________
...during this process you may even begin to question yourselves, but dont worry for this is healthy. For what are we if we are not what we believe.
The Last Ride of Stephen Whatley and His Immortals
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4 Apr 2003, 01:02
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#6
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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I actually have to say I quite like this.
It works on many levels, and will force alliances to be more localised to allow efficient defence and attack, or more strategic, at any rate.
The idea of a 38 hr travel time is quite daunting though :D - Imagine if PA had hundreds of clusters. A maximum or a lower rise beyond 16 hours might be preferable (or perhaps less travel time).
Bigger travel times might also be less stressful on el social life as well.
This might be the best idea you've had in a while, on first glance (as painful as it is to say it :p).
Will prob need a bit of tinkering though
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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4 Apr 2003, 01:03
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#7
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magister
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 74
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Sounds interesting.
But it would need to be a circular universe, where topclusters have short traveltime to the 1 cluster...similar with paras ofc. Then everyone will have the same amount of loweta neighboors.
It will also need continued private galaxies, galattacks will be so much more important.
But I don't think any traveltimes should even approach 24 hours.
edit:
I think overburn would mix well with this feature.. especially if its a percentage based eta reduction.
And traveltime researches could in addition to a fixed travelbonus give a reduced long-distance penalty.. instead of +1 eta per cluster, its every second, then every third and so on.
Reducing traveltimes that way would imo be preferable to putting a maxlimit.
Would make people have to fight in their own vicinity at first, and then, as the round progress you can take on more of the universe.
__________________
r2: 21:23:10 BrainDrain of Idealia
r3: 36:5:1 Efreet of Azur
r4: 6:5:12 StoreSlem of Idealia
r5: 19:19:21 BrainDrain of Eudamonia
r6: 22:17:x x of x (cant remember, magister tho)
r7: 22:23:x x of x (dont do drugs kids)
r9: 39:8:3 StoreSlem of Idealia
"Meningen med livet er å gjøre livet verdt å leve"
-Sigurdnw
Last edited by storeslem; 4 Apr 2003 at 01:15.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:05
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#8
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7H4 B4R73ND3R
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: University of South Florida
Posts: 206
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I think the idea will make new alliances spring up between ppl that are close to each other... it could have a DRAMATIC effect on the way alliances are formed.
__________________
...during this process you may even begin to question yourselves, but dont worry for this is healthy. For what are we if we are not what we believe.
The Last Ride of Stephen Whatley and His Immortals
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4 Apr 2003, 01:06
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#9
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a new low in getting high
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,810
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Dont like the idea of traveltimes increasing.
__________________
There’s trouble on every corner,
And you need a place to hide,
All the bad things follow us down,
I want you by my side.
We’re hitting a new low.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:06
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#10
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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I don't see it leading to any worse situation than we have now; a few galaxies raping a cluster or parallel, essentially controlling the "area" nearest to them. At the worst, it means if you "own" the near-space, you won't have to check PA but once a day (j/k)
The galaxies in the middle will be prized positions, being able to attack or defend the entire universe with half the eta of people on the fringes. They would also be (judging by your eta timeframe example, and hoping for a large-ish universe) on about the outer rim of reasonable attack range for people at the beginning/end of the universe, giving them quite a safe position....or would it?
Being in the middle, they are effectively "surrounded".
Those at the beginning would only face attacks from one "direction", and likewise with the ones at the end...which has it's benefits, as compared to facing two sides in the middle position. This makes inter-galaxy politics vastly more important than it is now, and reduces the usefulness of an alliance. I mean, what good is your friends if they are 30 ticks away?
Though it might not end powerblocking, it will fragment it (and alliances, incidentally) as they'll simply create a system of groups with reasonable range of each other, and operate as "wings" so to speak. Of course, the changes could be greater or fewer, but you'd need to talk to someone who can view the "big picture" better than I. There was a fellow around here who I'd suggest, but he's not too active these days
I'd have know more details about the other changes (and hard-coding) to make a more detailed descision, and add more input.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:08
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#11
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Käptn Karacho
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,360
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u shouldn't worry too much about blocking in r10 as it will be (correct me if i'm wrong) a random round. the primary goal should be to make the game accesible for new players (preferrably in large numbers.)
and remember: everything you do will benefit the large alliances (yes: EVERYTHING) - that is the nature of the game. depending on the total size of the universe this suggested change to TT will be the end of the smaller alliances since their members will be too far apart from each other to work effectively while larger alliances/blocks will be packed more densely in the universe.
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at0mic.c0w - #strategy
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4 Apr 2003, 01:08
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 369
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instead of denting travel time so much why not dent eonium usage more somehow. Perhaps making it 50/50 dent the travel time a bit and dent the eonium usage a bit as well. Or make travel time faster and eonium cheaper for some as well. I dunno but dont go so much into travel time as after a while someone will take advantage of it but if ya dent the fuel they cant be so free about it.
__________________
r1 ??:??:?? Phalanx_WLF of Kadan
r2 9:23:1 Axis_WLF of Kadan : Blluetuba/Legion
r3 6:24:1 Axis_WLF of kadan : Legion/WolfPack
r4 201:15:1 Octavian of Ostia : Wolfpack
r5 13:6:2 Sun Tzu of Art of War : Legion Command
r6 33:13:?? : Legion Command
r7 15:19:12 Unknown soldier run over by a wagon : Legion Command
R8: 28:8:9 Niccolo Machiavelli of Revera Legatus : TITAN COMMAND BC
R12 ??:??:?? 1up Military Officer
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4 Apr 2003, 01:09
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#13
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EMO HC OF ASCENDANCY
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ålesund, Norway
Posts: 338
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let's say it like this... i'm glad i'm starting at uni and moving next round... cause i'm very against this change.. it would make PA look like ******, and that game was more boring than SS, if it's possible
__________________
[Fury] First,
[Fury] Last,
[Fury] Will never be a thing of the past!
Ministry for life.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:09
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#14
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Founder of Planetarion
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 543
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Quote:
Originally posted by Event_Horizon
I think the idea will make new alliances spring up between ppl that are close to each other... it could have a DRAMATIC effect on the way alliances are formed.
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Quite intentional tbh. Its a bit harsh, but it might lead to "new people" being trained and playing together with more experienced people, and further make the game more even and fun and challenging.
It will, I know, deal a tough blow to the thing called "pre made" alliances, and regional details will now make more obvious alliances.
__________________
- Spinner
Original creator of Planetarion, ManagerLeague and AD2460.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:10
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#15
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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To add: People will be forced to work with others in their region. Problem with this will be that NEXT round people will not be at the same coordinates.
One the one hand thats excellent, keep it dynamic. On the other hand it's annoying because you want to attack and defend with your mates. It could work quite well if you are planning on giving alliances an ETA advantage to eachother in defense. That would 1) hardcode alliance into the game and 2) allow people to continue defending with their friends to a certain level.
If this is the stuff R10 is made off, you're almost tempting me to play serious again... almost
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4 Apr 2003, 01:13
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#16
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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I like the idea, but Im not so sure its really going to work.
1) Anything more than eta 12 will be very easy to defend against.
2) Newbies wont have a chance, as galaxies will be even more important than now.
3) 2:3 and 150:4 wont be playing the same game, so why should they have anything to do with each other? It would also mean a alliance will have to get bigger to cope with incomings.
4) I want randoms, randoms and more randoms. Private galaxies are nice and comfy, but they kill the game.
5) Since I tradisionally have had little fait in you, tnx for letting us in the community play a part in this.
P.S the pic of you in that dress made me laugh
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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4 Apr 2003, 01:14
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#17
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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just wondering will there be a shuffle before protection ends and will the rd be random
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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4 Apr 2003, 01:15
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#18
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Xanadu
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Camelot
Posts: 456
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everybody should begin the game with equal opportunities. This is not given in a universe you just described.
Being in the middle provides players with a different environment than being in eg 1:1. That can not be the aim of any changes.
__________________
LDK s|ut
[23:33] <@Divine> hmm I think I may have a new GF aswell
[23:33] <@Divine> but dunno yet if I want a new GF so early in the round
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4 Apr 2003, 01:16
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#19
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Barrow
Posts: 131
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Can I Just Say
By Now Spinner u should realise that no one else is gonna join this game
there are 4 reasons for this
1. Its ****
2. Price Is To High
3. We Play On Bollox Servers
4. Too many Big Alliances
So The Alliances bit is a bit agreed... by prolly everyone..
This Time Travel ****.. What Are u tryin to do here?
at the end of it all we will end up with a max of 500 roids..
and we will be so tired we will wanna cook you over the stove and eat your bollox.
Why Dont You Do Summet Nice for a change???
Like Add A Random race..or summet good
so this will make more people go random and make more exciting to play
btw Iff The Speed Round Is As **** as This R9 game..
your head is for the chop
ta
-coza- ( Love Of Spinners Missus and Conqurer of all meaples)
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4 Apr 2003, 01:16
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#20
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[F.E.A.R.]
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,412
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This makes me think round 10 won't be random. And if it is then this is just going to make them "I'll quit if there's no private galaxy" people shout even louder.
Not only will they not be able to play in galaxies with their friends, but they won't be able to play otherwise with them either.
I always wondered why you came up with these radical ideas. People play PA just for that, PA, nothing else. I don't think it needs to evolve as much as this, but I suppose the same thing could have been said about races, and I personally think races were the best thing PA ever did.
I'd like this to work, although I'd prefer random galaxies. Being top 20 and having my entire fleet at home and not being able to save me friend whom I've known for 3 years, purely because I'm not close enough to them would upset/anger me.
I don't think you can expect us to judge this idea yet, or to even relate this to past rounds and how game play may change. We don't yet see the big picture, you do. These 'other things' that you speak of may be crap, but since we arn't aware of what they are we can only trust that they are good, simply because you said so.
__________________
"And when people tell me what is ok and what is not it should not be an unexpected scene seeing I extend my middle right hand digit and say: 'Eyy, would you like lemon or lime with that piece of advice, mister?'"
Funny Film Reviews :: SWOS
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4 Apr 2003, 01:20
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 369
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How to implement the advanatage? How will PA be able to tell who is in what alliance or etc? Will something like the tag system be used but that could be harmful since 1 person could get the tag code and all coords could be found? perhaps certain people only able to have the access to see all allied tagged planets but that could lead to other problems such as allied incoming unless a message popped up saying "unable to attack this planet as it is allied" or something to that point? Perhaps if Alliance A was napped to Alliance B they could still be napped but since they are not allied in the game they would have to spend more to aid them? Perhaps setting a 120 member=130 member limit in game per group?
__________________
r1 ??:??:?? Phalanx_WLF of Kadan
r2 9:23:1 Axis_WLF of Kadan : Blluetuba/Legion
r3 6:24:1 Axis_WLF of kadan : Legion/WolfPack
r4 201:15:1 Octavian of Ostia : Wolfpack
r5 13:6:2 Sun Tzu of Art of War : Legion Command
r6 33:13:?? : Legion Command
r7 15:19:12 Unknown soldier run over by a wagon : Legion Command
R8: 28:8:9 Niccolo Machiavelli of Revera Legatus : TITAN COMMAND BC
R12 ??:??:?? 1up Military Officer
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4 Apr 2003, 01:21
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#22
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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2nd thought..
the universe would have to be different than 1:1 and 150:1 beeing the outer limits, and 75:1 the middle.
it would have to be something like
*gal*->->->*gal*
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*gal*->->->*gal*
ie, the connections must have more variables than just that 1:1 is connected to 1:2 who is then connected to 1:3 etc.
But.. even with this it will still not work, but atleast be abit closer.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
Last edited by G.K Zhukov; 4 Apr 2003 at 01:28.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:22
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#23
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Barrow
Posts: 131
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p.S
Btw...
What is up with all u norwegians?
caught a case of SARS???
or just total wankanitus?
u make some rash decisions :P and iff this $hite was inplemented into the game we will be plying with 2 galaxys
one ofwhich being 1:1 the creators gal
NO ta ?
and to say we paid £18 for this?
could of bought like 2 litres of vodka for that and had 10x more fun than what pa r10 will be like
i dont know why u dont go back to round 3 , make it free.
bankrupt jolt and finish altogether
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4 Apr 2003, 01:23
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
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In my eyes will it be unfair.
If u are a good player with a lot friends, and a good activity, but sadly enough almost all friends of u have a slow eta to u. U will be roided.
And when there is a powerblock that contains more then 50% of the Universe u will have still the same ****y disadvantage of being outnumberd all the time.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:24
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 369
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Hmm maybe all random but giving members of the alliance the same travel time as galaxy members but only to those registered under the alliance ofc and cheaper to spend. Perhaps there can be a DECLARE WAR button for alliances to go against another alliance making attack time for both cheaper as well as eonium spendage?
I love random but being outta range to defend is a problem. So if all were random then your alliance could have the travel time advantage that galaxies have? There has to be a way to have alliance members registered outside the tag idea in the game for the advantages to register.
__________________
r1 ??:??:?? Phalanx_WLF of Kadan
r2 9:23:1 Axis_WLF of Kadan : Blluetuba/Legion
r3 6:24:1 Axis_WLF of kadan : Legion/WolfPack
r4 201:15:1 Octavian of Ostia : Wolfpack
r5 13:6:2 Sun Tzu of Art of War : Legion Command
r6 33:13:?? : Legion Command
r7 15:19:12 Unknown soldier run over by a wagon : Legion Command
R8: 28:8:9 Niccolo Machiavelli of Revera Legatus : TITAN COMMAND BC
R12 ??:??:?? 1up Military Officer
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4 Apr 2003, 01:26
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#26
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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I disagree Axis.
I would say, give us r8, just tune the ziks up, and ziks down.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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4 Apr 2003, 01:27
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#27
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Guest
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That is a Bad Idea!
It a Bad Idea! No one wants to wait more then 11 ticks to attack cause that takes up to much time and I not personally interested in waiting more then half a day to find out if i get Roids or if they got defense!
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4 Apr 2003, 01:29
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 369
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I dont like the attack time either
__________________
r1 ??:??:?? Phalanx_WLF of Kadan
r2 9:23:1 Axis_WLF of Kadan : Blluetuba/Legion
r3 6:24:1 Axis_WLF of kadan : Legion/WolfPack
r4 201:15:1 Octavian of Ostia : Wolfpack
r5 13:6:2 Sun Tzu of Art of War : Legion Command
r6 33:13:?? : Legion Command
r7 15:19:12 Unknown soldier run over by a wagon : Legion Command
R8: 28:8:9 Niccolo Machiavelli of Revera Legatus : TITAN COMMAND BC
R12 ??:??:?? 1up Military Officer
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4 Apr 2003, 01:29
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#29
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: That is a Bad Idea!
Quote:
Originally posted by Overburn
It a Bad Idea! No one wants to wait more then 11 ticks to attack cause that takes up to much time and I not personally interested in waiting more then half a day to find out if i get Roids or if they got defense!
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What's the big difference between 8/9 and 11 hours?
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4 Apr 2003, 01:31
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#30
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Daddy.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: #nfu
Posts: 627
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Excellent idea.
But i was wondering if there is perhaps the possiblity that u can send ur fleet out to some1's planet, and from there send it somewhere else.
Bit like on a similar game called Hypherions, where ur fleet stays at the planets u send it too. Although in some respects this would simply cancel out some of the things ur trying to achieve with this.
Never the less, an excellent idea
-Necro
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Arrogance
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4 Apr 2003, 01:35
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 23
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Nice idea Spinner, but your suggested details needs work. Making region and forming new alliances important is good, but the maximum ETA shouldnt be too high, that would ruin some of the bonds between old friends. ETA 12 as max sounds good to me. I also support random galaxies. I, like most other old players, find private galaxies very pleasant and knowing you can get defence from your alliance is nice. But it will lead to blocks, it will lead to stagnation, no matter what. This ETA idea and random galaxies works helps that problem. Making the game less stagnant and more friendly to the newcomers is essential to make the game fun. Just make sure you dont go too radical and screw things up for all of the old friends in the PA-universe :-)
A comment on another issue: speedgames. I love them, lots of other ppl do. They have all been successes, and it is more profitable for PA too. It lets ppl have RL on the side if they dont wanna leave the game completely, and could be a portal for newcomers if you make the speedgames regular. Of course the slow version needs to be worked on, but I think having speedgames running parallell to the main game is very important.
__________________
r4 - n00b : r5 - n00b in small alliances
r6 - half decent in BD : WC-finals - kicked ass with 1:9
r7 - idle and random : WC3 - finished #5
r8 - BD/LCH/FAnG
r9 - LCH/ToT : r9.5 - VGN/LCH/Trøndera
langemann, founder of TrønderBataljonen
[Du bli itj barsk uten karsk]
Come to #trondheim for sjitprat (BS)
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4 Apr 2003, 01:37
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#32
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Guest
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I see a flaw
say there are 50 clusters and 10 parralels
25:5 would have an unfair advantage as compared to say 50:10
as it would have double the gals to hit at half the eta
as there is no 51:11 but there is a 26:6
See my point? :\
It gives an unfair advantage at the start
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4 Apr 2003, 01:38
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#33
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Stan-hyd
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hydridia
Posts: 166
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hmmmm
NO NO NO stupid as stupid does!!!!
PLZ -=dont do this to the game=- PLZ
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stan-hyd
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4 Apr 2003, 01:39
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 30
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Interesting
The obvious problem that your area could run out of roids is a real probelm - especially if they stop being active because u're gal is too dominante in the area.
I have two additional ideas
1) slowly move the galaxies around (after all galaxys do move around in the universe) just maybe randomly swapping them with neigbours so they slowly get shuffled.
and/or
2) allow each gal one worm hole to an allied gal. eg both gals have to pay resources at each end to create the hole. Then regardless of the distance between the gals you get either instance or eta 1 travel through the hole. Therefore you set up sister gals where you can get defence or join attacks with them. Then if your emidiate area is drained of roids then you can join another gal and attack from there as well. If the new area becomes drained then you destroy the worm hole and create a new one with another gal (each worm hole would have to be quite expensive). alliance could work this to still have some effect but it would reduce there influence while not causing a gal to be left in a dead-zone where they cant grow.
Just some ideas
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4 Apr 2003, 01:42
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#35
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EMO HC OF ASCENDANCY
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ålesund, Norway
Posts: 338
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sorry spinner, but this change will have more disadvanteages than advantages.. and dont complain about spelling, my mates fooled me to drink tonight...
it's ok to make changes, but dont ruin it... and dont copy other online games (******, everquest etc etc.. i know a lot of em copied PA but dont do the same back)
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4 Apr 2003, 01:45
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#36
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadnought!
I see a flaw
say there are 50 clusters and 10 parralels
25:5 would have an unfair advantage as compared to say 50:10
as it would have double the gals to hit at half the eta
as there is no 51:11 but there is a 26:6
See my point? :\
It gives an unfair advantage at the start
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you'r thinking in terms of a flat universe, make it a round universe and it should work quite nicely.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:45
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#37
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Guest
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I think it's a good idea but i reckon you'd have to make the universe circular so that 1:1 would be next to 1:2 and say 150:10
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4 Apr 2003, 01:46
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#38
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
you'r thinking in terms of a flat universe, make it a round universe and it should work quite nicely.
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I think Spinner meant as a flat universe. If its round (i.e it loops around) or something to that effect, it has more possibility.
I'm going to ponder over it abit more.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:47
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southampton
Posts: 54
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One problem i see with this is that you will end up with 3 Groups, Group 1 being those at the Beginning of the Universe that have Control over their little Area. Group 2 Being at the End of the Universe growing at similar rate as Group 1. Then theres Group 3 Who will be the biggest of them all, as they have a wider range of Targets, if they choose to band together then Group 1 & Group 2 will be dead, Group 3 will win the round.
Main Reasons why Group 3 will Win.
1) They have greater number of planets within striking distance, which means more targets or more allies.
2) Groups 1 & 2 will run out of Targets far quicker than Group 3, which will probably mean that Groups 1 & 2 will have to travel Further for targets thus meaning a greater Turn around, Thus slower Growth than Group 3.
Sorry Spinner m8, But you give the Guys in Group 3 a far greater advantage, thus meaning if your stuck close to the fringes on either side of the universe you might as well Quit.
because at the end of the day you could end up with 3 alliances, one for each group. Neither alliance will be able to hit the other alliance, due to them taking twice the time to Arrive and attack a planet as it does to Defend.
Having just thought about it, the worst group infact will be Group those poor sods that will be in between the Groups.
Ie Group 1 will extend out and attack as far as possible as does the Group 2, which will mean Group 4 will be trouble as they dont belong to either Group.
If your going to make a universe in this Fashion then for starters you would have to make the Universe a Sphere, thus giving a more equal chance to everyone to make it to the top, cause atm you are favouring those who start in the middle.
Cupelix
edit... But even with a Sphere as a universe you would still end up messing up the community as a whole, Because new and old players wouldn't be able to play along side their friends, unless you had private gals but even then that would only benefit the new players (but how many are going to start a private gal if they are new) Remember alot of the old Timers like myself have made alot of friends over the Rounds, considerably more than you can fit in one gal. So infact you would have to make the universe Random, which i'm not sure how many peeps will like tbh.
Last edited by LordBlackheart2000; 4 Apr 2003 at 01:56.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:48
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12
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if i may so...im just stating this...
the general idea from spinner is good..but..there is always a but...if you incrise to much you will spoil the fun..has people say having to way that manyh hours to see if i get roids..it sucks...
what you can do to solve aliances powebloking..is a midle thing
you can increse Eta in that sistem you said..but if a limit of +4...what means a max of 12H half a day...after all reserarch constr are done...
then do some other smal changes..already tried implemented or thought in here somewhere...
1: overburn : makes big aliances get more hits...if you have a gal menber alweays offline no mater how hard you try..you get get incs..voerburned..and no mater how big aliances he is..he loses roids... wich means overburn should give Hideen atack plus eta -1 plus max 2 tick of roiding
then after if you you try to go farther enough on some changes...id consider a new feature...Guerrilla atack...wich means 1 entire tick withouth defense being able to fire...a surprise shot...a way to atack hiden, with overburn plus 1 extra tick of fire...with a backfire of tick with no defense gets no roids..and you will only roid 1 tick...that would make retals much more fun....
also for that guerrilla feature...there should be an implemented feature...cant atack smaler planets
wich makes it to be much more skil based then a top 10 planet destroing evrione at willl....
also and in here i may be a litle doubtfull..the gerrila feature would only be caught if you spend a special scan...wich it goes after mil scan...inteligence scan... check entire gal for gerrilha atacls....with a SUCHA heavy cost...that will only be done if you have no clue if any one doing that atack....but if this feature is implemented to balance it....not even the planet geting the incs..could know he is geting incs...that would make top 10 gals even if powerblockking have to spend almost each tick doing INTEL scans..but if the cost is Sise based..the bigger the gal the harder it goes to scan...heheh so you get to a place where top gals will have to be always online..if they wana win...and smal players who have no time for Hardcore play..but stil wana have some fun..will have a way to revenge....and do some damage
that will always balance the game..couse only the most hatted ones..usualy the biggest ones..get the more fanatics atfter them....hehehe so they will need full time escort
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4 Apr 2003, 01:48
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#41
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Grand Poobah
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 33
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It does seem like you are trying to do something against what you call "pre made" alliances. The thing you have to realize is that PA is at a point now where the only reason a large amount of people play anymore is only because of their alliance community, and to play with friends. If you start making that impossible, or at least a whole lot harder, it can only hurt imo. Being punished for something you cannot control, in this case being where you end up in the universe isnt the right way to go about it.
A change this big isnt really needed tbh. It could actually lead to alliances getting bigger and bigger so they have more control over a greater space, something which sounds like you dont want to happen at all. If you want to make a change that will really be a big step in helping the problems PA has, make it randoms only. It would be a big step in solving the farming problem which has put retard after retard on the top of the universe page for so many rounds, and it wouldnt completely stop the huge powerblocks, but it would hinder them a bit. In a random round huge blocks arent needed.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:49
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#42
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
you'r thinking in terms of a flat universe, make it a round universe and it should work quite nicely.
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As the universe expands (more people join) you 50:10 will get further away from 1:1 so this makes it harder for 50:10 to establish an alliance as more people join and become 51:10 and they get further away from 1:1. This is also disavantaged to the higher clusters and lower clusters where as the core middle clusters get the best deal
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4 Apr 2003, 01:49
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#43
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Guest
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those time scales are ****e, if its gonna take me 30 odd tix to reach my target I aint even gonna bother going out, hell I send my 2 mil fleet out over 30 tix travel time, to find there is 50mil def fleets that are waiting for me.
Unless of course the travel res/con reduces those times drastically
I cant wait around for a full day to ARRIVE at the target and see if it has def or if I get roids, and then another full day for my fleet to return IF it aint been wiped out
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4 Apr 2003, 01:52
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#44
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sexeh bitch
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: http://www.hyperpipe.net
Posts: 35
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re
this is definately not enticing me to want to play R10
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4 Apr 2003, 01:54
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#45
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No, really...
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Out of my mind
Posts: 399
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Re: Round 10, traveltime and alliances
Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
snip...
The idea is that of "geography" and a "coordinate system" if you like.
It is in fact a lot longer from 1:1 to 12:12 than it is from 1:1 to 3:3. This should be reflected in traveltime too.
The coming example is just that, an example, the forumla isnt nailed yet, but you get the idea:
Base travel time = 5 ticks. This can be viewed as the amount of time needed to get your ships from your planet and to your local jumpgate.
From there on, the amount of time spent in the jumpgate depends on where you are travelling.
For the sake of argument, we will also say that one shift in X coordinates, takes 1 tick, and one shift in the Y coordinate will take 1 tick.
This means, that going from 1:1 to 1:2 takes a total of
5+1 = 6 ticks.
It also means that going from 1:1 to 1:10 takes 5 + 9 = 14 ticks.
It also means that going from 1:1 to 25:10 takes a mind-blowing 5+24+9=38 ticks.
You probably see where this is going. It will split the universe somewhat so that the edges have little to do with eachother, and one can discuss the benefits / problems with being near "the beginning or the end" as opposed to being "more in the middle".
snip .. (-:
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The quickest route between 2 points is a straight line. The travel times taht you have proposed will raise pretty bad :-/
The most direct route from 1:1 to 25:10 won't be east then south, it will be southeast. The travel time should be the hypotenuse(sp?) of the triangle that it creates, rounded up to the nearest whole number perhaps. This way it'll keep the travel time from growing so horribly huge.
sqrt(24^2 + 9^2) = 25.6
so travel time = 26
Hmm.. well it's still huge there, but by creating some sort of low-order universal multiplier or divider you could easily get it under control without making a mess of the close travel times.
And to encourage ingame alliances, make sending def to allies on a lower order. Perhaps have a res/constr for an 'alliance jumpgate' or something like that. That way ppl can still play w/ the ppl they want to play with.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:54
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#46
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Barrow
Posts: 131
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Quote:
It does seem like you are trying to do something against what you call "pre made" alliances. The thing you have to realize is that PA is at a point now where the only reason a large amount of people play anymore is only because of their alliance community, and to play with friends. If you start making that impossible, or at least a whole lot harder, it can only hurt imo. Being punished for something you cannot control, in this case being where you end up in the universe isnt the right way to go about it.
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Well Said BiggDogg
Bets Thing Ive ever heard u say :P
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4 Apr 2003, 01:55
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#47
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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It would be rather hard to point a winner as well.
Well maybe a 'top galaxy' and a 'top player', but never a 'top faction'. Since it would be impossible to kill the other faction.
After all, you have 12+ ETA on eachother, but ETA 6-8 to defend to yourselves.
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4 Apr 2003, 01:56
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#48
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No, really...
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Out of my mind
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally posted by Borg_31373
those time scales are ****e, if its gonna take me 30 odd tix to reach my target I aint even gonna bother going out, hell I send my 2 mil fleet out over 30 tix travel time, to find there is 50mil def fleets that are waiting for me.
Unless of course the travel res/con reduces those times drastically
I cant wait around for a full day to ARRIVE at the target and see if it has def or if I get roids, and then another full day for my fleet to return IF it aint been wiped out
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he gave an example, not a proposed formula. It's a proposed idea. He's looking for constructive criticism here. If you have better ideas, voice them, if you're just going to spout off with nothing of use, sit down and shut up.
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Stomp ten peasants to achieve burnination
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4 Apr 2003, 01:58
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#49
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Quote:
Originally posted by Borg_31373
those time scales are ****e, if its gonna take me 30 odd tix to reach my target I aint even gonna bother going out, hell I send my 2 mil fleet out over 30 tix travel time, to find there is 50mil def fleets that are waiting for me.
Unless of course the travel res/con reduces those times drastically
I cant wait around for a full day to ARRIVE at the target and see if it has def or if I get roids, and then another full day for my fleet to return IF it aint been wiped out
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we called it rnd 1
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4 Apr 2003, 01:59
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#50
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Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
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Assuming the round set up will be be private/random place the private galaxies (Pay to play only) in the center of the universe and place the random galaxies around the edges (Free accounts).
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