are whites inferior in the western world?

I just had a huge debate call it if you may, with a friend from Uni.

It was to do with the fact that (on average) certain non-white races tend to excel far above their white bretheren in western countries.

Take for example, in Britain and the USA: Indians, Chinese, Japanese and various other Asians people(s), earn more on average than whites (salary per capita) and they far surpass whites in the educational systems of the respective countries. I can't back this up - but i've also heard that they tend to have higher IQ's as an average (although note that IQ tends to be related to education levels, which would be that they are higher naturally)

So what can explain this? Various options (i will use whites as the comparison as they are the majority "race" in western countries:

nb: this is just debate

1) They are naturally as a race(s) more capable and intelligent than whites

2) Their culture is such, that they work harder and thus excel in the areas where hard work pays off

3) Whites are lazy in comparison

4) The mass immigration that took place in the last 50 or so years, bought more socially higher classed people into the western countries... by that i mean only thoset hat could afford to migrate to western countires did so. Generally these people being richer than the average person in their respective countries, thus most probably higher educated and with a "head-start". Thus they come to western countries being the "top" of the social ladder in their respective countries, making it easy to top the ladder of the western countries.

5) White Collar Visa's and "green cards" used to attract the educated people from these countries to fill in the gaps in western countries have greatly increased the populace of these races in western countries. These people being already well educated, can thus excel in the respective western countries and earn more money than the average tom dick and harry.

well what do you think?

Edit: Various sources (as they come)

in the UK:

% OF ETHNIC GROUPS GETTING FIVE OR MORE GOOD GCSEs
White: 52%
- Indian: 60%
- Other Asian: 64%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2784159.stm

Zar

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Zaratul
Take for example, in Britain and the USA: Indians, Chinese, Japanese and various other Asians people(s), earn more on average than whites (salary per capita) and they far surpass whites in the educational systems of the respective countries. I can't back this up - but i've also heard that they tend to have higher IQ's as an average (although note that IQ tends to be related to education levels, which would be that they are higher naturally)

sources for this plz.

Originally posted by Nodrog
sources for this plz.

check the us bureau census and british census.

due - to both of these being near impossible ot navigate (cant see why) .... it'll take me a while - but i shall look, just cant promise you when i'll get them

Zar

[Radical Edward]

they just stole all our ideas.

[JonnyBGood]

I think I need a few reliable statistics before I make a definitive judgement heh. I don't think there's that much in it to be honest. Perhaps people from other countries work harder when they come here as they want to prove themselves? I'm unsure. Also does that include the high number of doctors etc that immigrate to the western world? Clearly they would not be representative of a true level of intelligence as I think most of us will admit that doctors are usually better educated than the average person. This tendency of a higher degree of educated foreign people arriving in the west would preclude an unbiased judgement.

oh crap - i have to go out for a bit.

i'll be back later with hopefully some sources of something to add to the debate.

Zar

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Zaratul
% OF ETHNIC GROUPS GETTING FIVE OR MORE GOOD GCSEs
White: 52%
- Indian: 60%
- Other Asian: 64%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2784159.stm

Zar

Not to be picky, but are these results purely for public schools? If your theories 4 + 5 were correct, then surely these 'rich' immigrants would be more likely to send their children to private schools, where the standard of teaching is higher.

[Starbucks]

its called Kevitus and skivititus

Both are derivitives of the same strain, the symptoms are phoning in ill declaring "you are a little under the weather"

other symptoms include flirtation with driving automobiles around fast food establishments

Where as asian people have nokiatheftandsellititus

this creates a good understanding of technical knowledge in cellular phones and business sense

and also levels of fitness, particularily in running

People diagnosed are "worried" by flashing blue lights

[JonnyBGood]

Also you can't just draw a limit and say that's good and everything below that is average, and then another line and everything below that is bad.



Not to mention the fact that you picked the most selective of facts in your little comment there. The actual percentage of whites to asians is exactly the same according to the site you quoted.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Zaratul
1) They are naturally as a race(s) more capable and intelligent than whites

2) Their culture is such, that they work harder and thus excel in the areas where hard work pays off

Point 1 is invalidated by the fact that Indians do vastly better than Bangladeshi/Pakistani children (according to the stats that you've posted). Unless Indians can be shown to have "better genes" than their Asian brothers this would seem to make nonsense of it.

It's cultural. On an anecdotal level, the Indian's I've known are put under enormous pressure to do well at school, given extra homework, etc. White kids (and black kids) often aren't, and indeed in some circles "learning" is looked down on with some derision.

Of course, differences between cultures could be affected by the economic-class of the immigration populations. People immigrating in the 50's and 60's from the West Indies tended to be manual labourers or of other working-class profiessions. Asians from Uganda (as an example) tended to be of a more petit-bourgeois persuasion. See also Nod's point on private vs public schools, although even in state schools the stats hold out, I think.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Zaratul


% OF ETHNIC GROUPS GETTING FIVE OR MORE GOOD GCSEs
White: 52%
- Indian: 60%
- Other Asian: 64%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2784159.stm

Zar

White: 52%
Black: 36%
Asian: 52%
- Indian: 60%
- Pakistani: 40%
- Bangladeshi: 41%
- Other Asian: 64%
Other group: 53%
Not stated: 30%



Is what it actually says.

[Nodrog]

What about white immigrants? Perhaps people who are willing to leave their 'homeland' to move to a country they see as being "better" for them are likely to expect high standards of their children, regardless of race.

[Starbucks]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
White: 52%
Black: 36%
Asian: 52%
- Indian: 60%
- Pakistani: 40%
- Bangladeshi: 41%
- Other Asian: 64%
Other group: 53%
Not stated: 30%

Is what it actually says.

Zaratul in abusing stats SHOCKA!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Nodrog
What about white immigrants? Perhaps people who are willing to leave their 'homeland' to move to a country they see as being "better" for them are likely to expect high standards of their children, regardless of race.

I don't think the number of white people immigrating back into the western world is as high as other races numbers, although I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here.

[Starbucks]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I don't think the number of white people immigrating back into the western world is as high as other races numbers, although I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here.

im getting out of this country after my degree

period.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Starbucks
im getting out of this country after my degree

period.

[totallyofftopic] where you going to?

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I don't think the number of white people immigrating back into the western world is as high as other races numbers, although I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here.

Perhaps the children of immigrants do better than the children of non-immigrants on a large scale, because people who are likely to immigrate might be likely to push their children harder.

[Starbucks]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
[totallyofftopic] where you going to?

Canukland probably

my requirements are

1. Country that is pretty "neutral" in foreign affairs, in the sense that it doesnt have a overwhelming defence budget taking the money from the people that can be spent on them

2. Not a member of the european union

3. Cold or in close proximity to a half-decent piste

4. They speak english as a first or second language

Canada and Finland meet both Critera
Canada has vanilla coke

the choice is easy

[edit] unfortunately, our family isnt "lucky" when it comes to emmigration

We get killed a lot, hence the defence budget thing[/edit]

[Starbucks]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Perhaps the children of immigrants do better than the children of non-immigrants on a large scale, because people who are likely to immigrate might be likely to push their children harder.

i guess you mean this in a "better oppertunitys, dont **** it up" kind of way

[Ragnarak]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
[totallyofftopic] where you going to?

very very slightly on topic*

does anyone here speak japanese and if so how does learning it from scratch compare in difficulty to say learning german or french?






















*completely off-topic

[IndiaSour]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Perhaps the children of immigrants do better than the children of non-immigrants on a large scale, because people who are likely to immigrate might be likely to push their children harder.

I have cousins who came to America from the Former Yugoslavia (Serbia/Bosnia to be exact). I have cousins also born in the states. My cousins born in the states are actually not very bright. Except for 2 but... They go to private schools in the suburbs (you get a better education in the suburbs then the city). Some turned to drugs... Others well, I think my dog could be smarter.

My cousins from overseas on the otherhand actually are bright. Their parents, with the exception of one, all have degrees... be it in Architecture, Medical or Business fields. All of their kids in High school that took the SATs scored between 1200 - 1400 (roughly). I myself scored only a 1300. My cousins... in the states, IF they took it never got over 1000.

[speculation]I think when immigrants come over, they have more of a work ethic. They believe more is expected of them, so they have to outperform the children of citizens. In a few generations of living in a country... I think this will cease. They will be lazy like the rest of us.[/speculation]

[Judge]

Why do you think it is that whenever politicians are about to lie, they always quote statistics at you?

As someone said on here, and it has been repeated many times.

90% of Statistics are made up on the spot.

[Nusselt]

I have to agree with Dante, also on an ancedotal level, speaking mainly to sikhs, but also hindus (ie of Indian origin) the expectation is that they will come home do their homework and do well in exams. Also isnt there the debate that the reason young black males do so badly is that education is seen as the 'weak' option, that peer group pressure encorages the tough macho image. I suppose it just comes down to your social conditions and your upbringing.

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue


*Women have smaller feet, I belive they perform better at education.

depends what country you are in (performing better that is)

Zar

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Judge
Why do you think it is that whenever politicians are about to lie, they always quote statistics at you?

As someone said on here, and it has been repeated many times.

90% of Statistics are made up on the spot.

Actually it's 87.6%. BMAO!

[Tobe]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
White: 52%
Black: 36%
Asian: 52%
- Indian: 60%
- Pakistani: 40%
- Bangladeshi: 41%
- Other Asian: 64%
Other group: 53%
Not stated: 30%



Is what it actually says.

i go to a grammer school with an entrance exam so when people enter they are all of around the same standard

there are a few hard working asians and they work like **** because they arent as naturally intelligent as others

there is not one asian who came in the top quater of the year where gcse s are concerned and there was one afro-caribean guy who came close to top but hes the hardest working guy i know.

With equal opputunities and motivation white people tend to out perform others.

however in this country asians want to escape "menial labour" tags and so work hard so they dont follow the same routes as their parents or grandparents, generally speaking

where as white lower class feel comfortable and just assume they will do as well as their parents

this may just be a sweeping generalisation but its what ive noticed.

[Tobe]

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue


On the shoe size point I would expect to find that people with smaller feet* get more GCSE's than people with larger feet, now we could think of all sorts of social reasons for this, but is it really the issue?


*Women have smaller feet, as do Asians, I belive they perform better at education.

i have size 9 feet which i guess is average and got 12 1/2 gcses including

Latin
Ancient Greek in 2 years
Additional Maths

[queball]

Originally posted by Tobe
i have size 9 feet which i guess is average and got 12 1/2 gcses including

Latin
Ancient Greek in 2 years
Additional Maths

Additional Maths isn't a GCSE. (I think)
haha!

[Bloomers III]

i'm white and smarter than tobe, i managed to beat him even though he was doing **** easy subjects like ancient greek. lol at ancient greek!

i have no indians in my year becuase i live in the south and my school is semi decent.

[Tobe]

Originally posted by queball
Additional Maths isn't a GCSE. (I think)
haha!

its a GCE


which in my mind is better

[Tobe]

Originally posted by Bloomers III
i'm white and smarter than tobe, i managed to beat him even though he was doing **** easy subjects like ancient greek. lol at ancient greek!

i have no indians in my year becuase i live in the south and my school is semi decent.

if you want to lie to yourself feel free, but dont lie to others

i beat you by a mile on points score, and you only did 10 gcses in easy subjects like history and geography

Originally posted by Tobe
if you want to lie to yourself feel free, but dont lie to others

i beat you by a mile on points score, and you only did 10 gcses in easy subjects like history and geography

look sssshh you two. Stop boasting about the amount of GCSE's that you have done. It is a tendancy (not to sound like a snob) for non private schools to encourage children to do more than the standard 9 or 10 gcses (depending on whether you do double or tripple science). Most private schools dont encourage students to do more than 11 gcses, not because they dont think they are capable, but because they see that doing more is absolutely pointless. Better to get more a's and a*'s on worthwhile subjects, rather than do pointless gcse's for the hell of it, just to get more subject grades.

12 gcse's means nothing to me. I look at the grades, the subjects and the examining board.

Edit: And to be even more bluntly honest, GCSE's are pathethic. They are too easy, do not give a worthwhile indication to the actual intelligence (in a normative sense) or a pupil, and they have become too social in their makeup (favouring feminine way of thinking). Not that, that is a bad thing, but it should be more even, if comparisons are to be used at all.

Zar

[Judge]

No

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Tobe
With equal opputunities and motivation white people tend to out perform others.

Evidence please for this white-supremacist claim.

[Vaio]

Only the French ones

Vaio

[Vermillion]

No, no, no. You people are all confused.

Its the Orientals who are super intelligent but have tiny penises, the Blacks who have natural athletic ability, and the Jews who conrol the world's resources.

Seeing as how everyone here is speaking almost entirely to steriotypes, I felt it would be worthwhile to clear those steriotypes up.

[menth0l]

Originally posted by Tobe

With equal opputunities and motivation white people tend to out perform others.

Excuse me Mr. Grand Dragon, but i'd like to see something supporting this claim.

[Tietäjä]

Originally posted by Vermillion

Its the Orientals who are super intelligent but have tiny penises, the Blacks who have natural athletic ability, and the Jews who conrol the world's resources.

I need to write those up.

[menth0l]

Originally posted by Tietäjä
I need to write those up.

I don't think you have the global influence to "write up" entire races :/

You might want to write what Vermillion said down though for your future stereotyping needs.




[edit: missed an 'o']

[Sub]

Only retards care about GCSEs.

[Sub]

Only retards care about GCSEs.

[Sub]

Only retards care about GCSEs.