[supergeilklasse] the adolf hitler art collection 2005

[KoeN]

http://www.thirdreich.ca/hpaintings.php

enjoy

[wu_trax]

if only he would have been better at this

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by big_horn

2: we can call germans nasty names

especially the popes

[s|k]

Originally Posted by big_horn

i was reading a book review in the sunday times culture about how facism was actually on the rise in britain before we went to war with germany (in a big way)........
it's only suprising of-course if you're silly enough to believe that germans are actually inherantly evil and only this sort of thing could happen there.
So it wasn't all bad...... at least with the way things panned out 1: hitler lost and 2: we can call germans nasty names

and princes can't wear swatzikas

[zakoff]

I actually saw some Hitler art in real life. I was in a place call Messines??? (spelling??) in Belgium, the church there is actually the church in which Hitler spent time recovering from his gas attack etcetc.

Horn - Facism and Communism was growing across Western Europe. In Britain the Daily mail, for example, was fully supportive of Hitler and the war until Britain officially went to War with them. There are actually documented messages between the owner of the Daily Mail and the Nazi party, which came out recently under the new Freedom of Information act.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by big_horn

i was reading a book review in the sunday times culture about how facism was actually on the rise in britain before we went to war with germany (in a big way)........
it's only suprising of-course if you're silly enough to believe that germans are actually inherantly evil and only this sort of thing could happen there.
So it wasn't all bad...... at least with the way things panned out 1: hitler lost and 2: we can call germans nasty names

on the rise?

(honestly)

on the rise? just before we decided to spend every last penny we had destroying it (and then be made to borrow more from america when we'd spent all of our money, to win)

on the rise?

amongst whom?

unity mitford?

dear lord what a lot of rot gets printed nowadays.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

on the rise?

(honestly)

on the rise? just before we decided to spend every last penny we had destroying it (and then be made to borrow more from america when we'd spent all of our money, to win)

on the rise?

amongst whom?

unity mitford?

dear lord what a lot of rot gets printed nowadays.

Thats not true really. Nationalism has been a big problem in the UK for many many many years. Prior to the War this formed into Facism. There was, especially in the middle and upper classes, a rather large group of facists that formed in the period between the wars. Anti-Semitism, Anti-Communism (there was a massive fear of workers in the period for instance) and extreme nationalism were certainly rife. However, it certainly wasn't as large as Germany, France and Italy in this period.

Let us also not forget that the SS had a reasonable amount of English members. It actually had more foreign nationals than it did Germans (mainly French and Dutch people).

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

Thats not true really. Nationalism has been a big problem in the UK for many many many years. Prior to the War this formed into Facism. There was, especially in the middle and upper classes, a rather large group of facists that formed in the period between the wars.

i'm sorry.

but i'm really going to have to ask you for names.

i'm not being difficult. but you're making stupid generalisations. about people who died to fight facism.

so at some point, someone has to stop you and ask you just who you are talking about.

(i don't want to be overly emotional, but these were living people you are saying nonsense about. perhaps if you define 'facist' it might make me less inclined to hurt you)

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

i'm sorry.

but i'm really going to have to ask you for names.

i'm not being difficult. but you're making stupid generalisations. about people who died to fight facism.

so at some point, someone has to stop you and ask you just who you are talking about.

(i don't want to be overly emotional, but these were living people you are saying nonsense about. perhaps if you define 'facist' it might make me less inclined to hurt you)

I can quite easily find facts a figures for you, if you want to be pedantic about it. I'm not talking about people who died for Britain in any way. I am talking about the minority of folks who were fascists. Just search Daily Mail and anti-semitism for starters. I will look up the owner of the Daily mail that supported the Nazi party prior to the war, the name escapes me because I'm tired. They didn't change their position until the invasion of Czechoslovakia. You can also look for examples of the people who fought for Franco during the Spanish civil war, many British people did.

There are Facists in this country now. Most of the BNP would fall directly into the Fascist catergory. Although i wonder if they believe that nick griffin would be a good dictator.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

I can quite easily find facts a figures for you,

i want names. you said the middle and the upper classes. give me names. numbers are useless

Originally Posted by zakoff

if you want to be pedantic about it. I'm not talking about people who died for Britain in any way. I am talking about the minority of folks who were fascists. Just search Daily Mail and anti-semitism for starters. I will look up the owner of the Daily mail that supported the Nazi party prior to the war, the name escapes me because I'm tired.

lord beaverbrook or perhaps you mean esmond rothermere.

neither of these men were nazis.

indeed beaverbrook was in the war cabinet ffs.

Originally Posted by zakoff

They didn't change their position until the invasion of Czechoslovakia. You can also look for examples of the people who fought for Franco during the Spanish civil war, many British people did.

I can think of no one who faught for franco, plenty who fough against.

as for waiting until czechoslavakia? chamberlain signed munich. is he a facist?????

Originally Posted by zakoff

There are Facists in this country now. Most of the BNP would fall directly into the Fascist catergory. Although i wonder if they believe that nick griffin would be a good dictator.

fine. i don't give a crap about 'now' i care about the people who are dead now, the ones who can't sue you for lying, the ones who's memory you tarnish

yes. it might seem silly to you. but these people were my friends. If you want to say such outrageous lies then give me names.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

i want names. you said the middle and the upper classes. give me names. numbers are useless

each individual fascist pre ww2? nice one. thats a joke.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

lord beaverbrook or perhaps you mean esmond rothermere.

neither of these men were nazis.

indeed beaverbrook was in the war cabinet ffs.

I'll look tomorrow

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I can think of no one who faught for franco, plenty who fough against.

yes of course there were people who fought against him. There were also those, from Britain, who fought for him.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

as for waiting until czechoslavakia? chamberlain signed munich. is he a facist?????

When Hitler broke the Munich agreement by invading the whole of Czechoslovakia the Daily mail, as requested by Chamberlain, change its political ideology towards Hitler and fascism. This is well documented.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

fine. i don't give a crap about 'now' i care about the people who are dead now, the ones who can't sue you for lying, the ones who's memory you tarnish

Who's memory am i tarnishing? There were people who were Fascists in the UK. There were those that supported the Nazi's too, this is well documented. It has no bearing on the memory of the who died fighting for the country or who lived during the war, none at all.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

yes. it might seem silly to you. but these people were my friends. If you want to say such outrageous lies then give me names.

'these people'

I am not insulting anyone, i find it rather funny that you are talking about your friends. What friends? People who fought during the war? I think nearly everyone in the Country has relatives of friends who fought during the war. I am not saying anything against anyone, except the people that were fascists before the war. It is quite clearly documented, they were severely dealt with by the Government during the war and i think you are being rather silly to think that there weren't. Its just the same as there being Communists in the UK during the Cold war, its hardly suprising etc.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

each individual fascist pre ww2? nice one. thats a joke.

it might be to you. but then it was you who joked there were any.

Originally Posted by zakoff

I'll look tomorrow

look at what?
esmond rothermere owned the ****ing paper. he wasn't a facist. beaverbrook and rothermere between them owned every ****ing paper
neither of them were facist.

what do you need to look up?

Originally Posted by zakoff

When Hitler broke the Munich agreement by invading the whole of Czechoslovakia the Daily mail, as requested by Chamberlain, change its political ideology towards Hitler and fascism. This is well documented.

well documented where?

Originally Posted by zakoff

Who's memory am i tarnishing? There were people who were Fascists in the UK.

give menames of these facists in the uk. i can think of 3 and one shot herself on the out break of war.

Originally Posted by zakoff

There were those that supported the Nazi's too,

who????

Originally Posted by zakoff

this is well documented.

stop saying this. we have google for ****s sake if anything is 'well documented' its on google

Originally Posted by zakoff

I am not insulting anyone, i find it rather funny that you are talking about your friends.

do you?
funny is it?

i see.

Originally Posted by zakoff

It is quite clearly documented, they were severely dealt with by the Government during the war and i think you are being rather silly to think that there weren't. Its just the same as there being Communists in the UK during the Cold war, its hardly suprising etc.

it is not 'clearly documented'

when you say "clearly documented" what you mean is 'i believe this to be true'

well get over it kid.

you're wrong.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

look at what?
esmond rothermere owned the ****ing paper. he wasn't a facist. beaverbrook and rothermere between them owned every ****ing paper
neither of them were facist.

Rothemore (maybe, this name sound right) may not have been a fascist. However he was a supporter of Hitler before Germany invaded Czechoslovakia. Mi5 were investigating him and had clear evidence of him sending messages of support to the Nazi party before the war. He was kept under investigation throughout the war. The Daily Mail was also extremely anti-semitic, you don't have to go far to find that out.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/polit...450023,00.html

Originally Posted by Yawhe

what do you need to look up?

well documented where?

give menames of these facists in the uk. i can think of 3 and one shot herself on the out break of war.


who????

I need to look up, in books, the exact details. I don't know, off hand, everything. I have a few details locked up within essays and many books on the subject. Pre-war Britain is not my subject, but I looked a some political patterns for something i did on the British attitudes towards the 'Eastern Question' in the 1870's.

stop saying this. we have google for ****s sake if anything is 'well documented' its on google

There might not be much on google about it. It would be difficult to search for something about it. Try searching for Anti-Fascism in Britain and that would get you somewhere.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...082690-3294063

this is the best 'simple' book on the subject that i know of. The Author is a Lecturer at the Uni of Sheffield. There are many other books about the subject, if you want a bibliography I'm sure i can get hold of one.

do you?
funny is it?

i see.



it is not 'clearly documented'

when you say "clearly documented" what you mean is 'i believe this to be true'

well get over it kid.

you're wrong.

There is absolutely no aspect of pre-war and ww2 britain that is not well documented. I don't really care what is true and what isn't true, my interest in WW2 is very limeted. I only looked at pre-war Britain for a little bit to put a political idea into a context.

Oh, I'm not a kid, ta

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

Rothemore (maybe, this name sound right)

how does it sound right?
i spelled his first name correctly and his second name.
you spell it wrong and it 'sounds right'

???

Originally Posted by zakoff

may not have been a fascist.

no he wasn't

Originally Posted by zakoff

However he was a supporter of Hitler before Germany invaded Czechoslovakia.

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
was he? esmond? a supporter of hitler until czechoslavakia? was he?

prove it.

Originally Posted by zakoff

Mi5 were investigating him and had clear evidence of him sending messages of support to the Nazi party before the war.

mi5 were?
were they?
prove it.

sending messages to who?
oh oh and please prove the shit you are saying

Originally Posted by zakoff

He was kept under investigation throughout the war.

by whom?
i know of no department that did. perhaps you can provide a new insight.

Originally Posted by zakoff

The Daily Mail was also extremely anti-semitic, you don't have to go far to find that out.

anti semitic... if it was (which it wasn't) but still. how is this facist?

Originally Posted by zakoff

I need to look up, in books, the exact details.

I don't know, off hand, everything. I have a few details locked up within essays and many books on the subject. Pre-war Britain is not my subject,

books.

indeed.

which books?

(and no, pre war britain, i think you've shown us all, it's not your subject)

Originally Posted by zakoff

but I looked a some political patterns for something i did on the British attitudes towards the 'Eastern Question' in the 1870's.

and this is relevant how?

Originally Posted by zakoff

There might not be much on google about it. It would be difficult to search for something about it. Try searching for Anti-Fascism in Britain and that would get you somewhere.

you said it was well documented.
(three times you said it)

i said that if it was well documented it would be available on google.

you give me an amazon link to an obscure 'academic'

Originally Posted by zakoff

There is absolutely no aspects of pre-war and ww2 britain that is not well documented.

really?
you can tell me what happened at bletchley park then?
since it is all so documented.

Originally Posted by zakoff

I don't really care what is true and what isn't true,

no
you don't seem to.

Originally Posted by zakoff

my interest in WW2 is very limeted. I only looked at pre-war Britain for a little bit to put a political idea into a context.

you obviously didn't look hard enough

Originally Posted by zakoff

Oh, I'm not a kid, ta

you act like one.
you have no respect for the people who lived a mere 70 years ago
you feel free to lie, to make up stories and to claim they were things they weren't

forgive meif i assume you are a child.

[zakoff]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/poli...1450023,00.html

this is about the Mi6 find ( sorry thought it was mi5). Rothemere, Rothemore, Rotherum, makes no difference to me to be honest how his name is spelt.

There are about 1000 Books about Pre-war Britain. Most of them will discuss some aspect of Britains fascist groups. The book i gave you was just one directly about the topic, Thurlow is a good Historian (not an obscure academic). It is on Google, if you know what you are looking for.

look for Blackshirts, British Empire Fascists, the Fascist League, British Fascisti, British Union of Fascists . There are many other small groups too. If you want to find evidence of UK Fascists.

Most of the documents about Bletchley park were destroyed before the war ended. However there is a lot of evidence from people who were there that have described the things that went on there. There are also government reports about the place too. It has, in recent years, been written about extensively.

I have alot of respect about people who fought during the war. I have not disrespected anyone in what i have said. I fail to see how saying there was Fascism in pre-war Britain is disrespecting anyone. The people who were fascists were quite probably proud of their political position. I don't lie either. Why should I look harder into WW2, its a topic that has not History left because there are no unexplored areas left (in my opinion).

oh and where is your conclusive evidence for their not being Fascists in the UK?!?

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

I have alot of respect about people who fought during the war. I have not disrespected anyone in what i have said. I fail to see how saying there was Fascism in pre-war Britain is disrespecting anyone.

it is

in your cute little language 'disrespecting'.

you quote what now? oswald's black shirts? as support for your lie.

you said facism was present in britain before the war.

i correceted this lie.

don't you get it kid? i mentioned bletchley not to 'confound you' not to 'confuse you' you said that all that happened was "well documented" i mentioned it to wake you up to how wrong you were

you said that facism was rife in pre war england.

bless you

but we have spent a good deal of time proving you wrong

be a man

admit it

you were wrong.

i doubt that you ever expected to 'bump into' someone like me. someone who knows the truth. you said lies, but they are not now uncommon lies.

i'm just too old to let such lies go.

your lies were nonsense and to save you time you do not need to "look up" esmond rothermere. you do not pretend there are secret files.

i won't give up because these people are people to me. i can see their faces. your only mistake was repeating lies to one who is too old to accept them

[zakoff]

Where did you prove me wrong? You are being rather pathetic to be honest. There isn't one thing you have said that has proved anything wrong at any point. You didn't correct any lie, you seem to have some reason for pretending that there wasn't a Fascism issue in the UK and I have no idea why and i don't really care.

Trying to catch me out with Bletchley Park? Why, whats your problem? It is well documented, just in a different form of documentation.

I didn't say Fascsim was rife in pre-war England. I said that there were large Fascist groups consisting of British people from the Middle and upper Classes. I'm not Religious. 'We' ? I'm probably more of a man than you. Admit what? I'm not wrong. 'Knows the Truth'? I find that rather funny and arrogant. They are not lies, they are true. It wasn't nonsence, I couldn't remember the name Rothermere because I see perhaps 20names a day, I don't remember them all. Pretend there are secret files? So what, the files releases under the Freedom of Information Act are false?

I see, so because you are old, you are respectful of the people during the war and that means also that fascists didn't exist in Britain. Whatever Yahwe, you are the one that sounds like they are on drugs, not me. You are too old to accept that there were groups of extremists in the UK? What are you trying to say? That Britain was a bastion of moderate politics, even though the rest of the World has spurts of extremism. I find it quite funny too, I can see the faces of people who have died during the war too. I've been to Auschwitz, Dresden, most of the European Battlefields and a couple of concentration camps. I also have 2 Grandads who fought during the War and 2 Grandmas that lived during the war and remember the bombings. I'm pretty sure they would be able to accept that there were Fascists around in pre-war britain. My Grandad is 90 and he's less naive than you.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

You are too old to accept that there were groups of extremists in the UK?

i am too old to put up with your bollocks

if those who in the years that come find solace in your nonsense. then you win. if they read what is now published clearly. i have no fear.

groups of extremists you say

groups.

i don't care. but do. do. give me one name

if, which i do not for a moment believe, you can show that i am wrong. if you can support your lies. that dear esmond or (fat head: i never liked him) beaverbrook was a fascist. then i am wrong.

i do not imagine that i am.

i have begged you for a name. one, one name would help. (god knows i have hinted at enough) this is an internet forum.

i trust and indeed i know that i will not be criticised for correcting you. (you have not made my posts entertaining. but i know i wiil not suffer for that truth.)

you have typed nonsense.

lies.

i do not imagine that you are brave enough to admit that you are wrong

you will never stop.

all i ask is that i am forgiven.

because you see. if you carry on typing lies. i will NEVER stop correcting you

[zakoff]

Oswald Mosely

you have some real issues.

[Nondescript Human]

sadly I must spread some reputation around before giving it to Yahwe again.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

on the rise? just before we decided to spend every last penny we had destroying it (and then be made to borrow more from america when we'd spent all of our money, to win)

don't be ridiculous. the reason you entered ww2 is the same as the reason you help the french in ww1, before that fought the french and later tried to disturb the european union whenever possible.

[Phang]

yahwe, don't, just don't, try to claim the blackshirts weren't a significant group in 30s britain, or that oswald mosley wasn't well-known or not a fascist. they lost a lot of their support following the Röhm purge, but they remained a more than sizable pressure group. Hitler was a guest at Mosley's wedding in 1936, in fact. There were fascists in Britain and quite a number of them and suggesting otherwise is the height of fallacy.

[Dante Hicks]

Love is blind. The love some seem to have for their country is no exception in this regard.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Flavius

imo, if you are ready to argue over something, you should be ready to back it up with evidence

so far you've been running away from doing this

i don't have much evidence because its not my subject.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Phang

yahwe, don't, just don't, try to claim the blackshirts weren't a significant group in 30s britain, or that oswald mosley wasn't well-known or not a fascist. they lost a lot of their support following the Röhm purge, but they remained a more than sizable pressure group. Hitler was a guest at Mosley's wedding in 1936, in fact.

... IN GERMANY ...

the black shirts were never a sizeable political pressure group, they were a joke.

As i said earlier I can name 3 upper class facists:

Unity Mitford
Diana Mitford (later diana Mosley)
and Oswald Mosley

2 sisters and one ego maniac do not a facist movement make.

I take great umbrage at this modern lie that england was largely facist. its absolute rubbish, its post 60s liberalist propaganda and the fact that you all believe in it so vehemently only gives credence to big-horn's point that we are vulnerable to propaganda.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I take great umbrage at this modern lie that england was largely facist. its absolute rubbish, its post 60s liberalist propaganda and the fact that you all believe in it so vehemently only gives credence to big-horn's point that we are vulnerable to propaganda.

You often come across as pretty far right, Yahwe.

Originally Posted by A. K. Chesterton

Fascism, recognizing the human necessity to serve a social purpose and the fact that in a very real sense man lives only in so far as he is related to others, provides every citizen with the opportunity to take control of the social life to which he belongs in so far as that social life impinges upon his own interests and is amenable to the treatment and discipline that his own specialised knowledge can give.

In the theoretical limitation of the individual's power Fascism in practice extends it illimitably by rescuing it from an impossibly large milieu and concentrating it upon the smaller field where he is able to walk with the sure tread of an expert - the field of his own special study. He is allowed at long last the corporate activity which his soul's health demands, by the simple expedient of being able to work upon the task of bringing order and decency into his own occupation, thereby functioning normally and realistically as a social being in a world where idealism and realism no longer spell antithesis. Herein is both the meaning and the mechanism of the Corporate State of Fascism - normal functioning which is the solvent of neurosis and the conqueror of decay.

Fascist Quarterly 1936

A. K. Chesterton (1899-1973) joined the BUF in 1933, was editor of the BUF newspaper Blackshirt, and Director of Publicity.

Did that get your blood boiling, Herr Yahwe? ;|

It's passionate and naive; and terribly, horribly wrong, but still somehow elegant if wholly unrealistic. If we all could be square blocks that fit into square little holes then facsists would be happy. To me it seems while they eulogize a spiritual ideal, they don't see all the differences in people as a positive thing, which for me at least is completely contrary to my understanding of the human spirit.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by zakoff

I said that there were large Fascist groups consisting of British people from the Middle and upper Classes.

The BUF, which was the largest Fascist group of the inter-war years, claimed at it's short-lived peak in the early 1930's fifty thousand members. That may seem a lot to us, but it's was a piddling amount by the mass-memberships of most parties of the time, and that is the BUF's own figure. By 1936 it probably had fifteen thousand members or less, and later fell even further. It had no electoral success whatsoever. It's demonstrations and marches were seldom less than disasters, which generated huge and disproportionate opposition, such as the Battle of Cable Street. This you understand, is all from the peak organisation of British Fascism of the time.

This thread has generated an awful lot of heat and very little light, but Yahwe's line of reasoning that Fascism in Britain was incredibly marginal and generally irrelevant has mostly been the more accurate one. Fascism, just like Communism, had some limited inroads with some members of the elite and the intelligentsia, but some people have been terribly overstating this here.

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Yahwe's line of reasoning that Fascism in Britain was incredibly marginal and generally irrelevant has mostly been the more accurate one.

I'm not disputing this, by the way.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I take great umbrage at this modern lie that england was largely facist.

I'm not really sure how many people actually believe that Britain was "largely" fascist.

The original post which sparked much of this merely remarked that fascism was "on the rise" in Britain. Which depending on the time frame and the statistics one uses may be true (clearly fascism was on the decline right before Britain declared war on Germany for instance, but if you're taking a longer term perspective, perhaps it holds more weight).

To use an analogy it's possibly true that radical Islamism is "on the rise" in Britain today, but that is a completely different ballpark from Britain being largely islamisist.

I'm not really sure what can be said in this argument. There were fascists in Britain before the War. This much is indisputable. They did not hold power and formed a small minority of British opinion. This is also not in dispute. We can argue whether they were "significant" or not, but unless we've got a working definition as to what that means (significant to whom? the people who fought them at Cable Street?) I suspect it's all rather futile.

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

don't be ridiculous. the reason you entered ww2 is the same as the reason you help the french in ww1, before that fought the french and later tried to disturb the european union whenever possible.

The only reason we helped the French in both World Wars is because their army training methods seem to consist entirely of being able to say

"schießen Sie nicht, ich übergeben"

[Nusselt]

Fascism...Fascism. We're still trying to form a ****ing republic. **** fascism.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I'm not really sure how many people actually believe that Britain was "largely" fascist.

The original post which sparked much of this merely remarked that fascism was "on the rise" in Britain. Which depending on the time frame and the statistics one uses may be true (clearly fascism was on the decline right before Britain declared war on Germany for instance, but if you're taking a longer term perspective, perhaps it holds more weight).

To use an analogy it's possibly true that radical Islamism is "on the rise" in Britain today, but that is a completely different ballpark from Britain being largely islamisist.

I'm not really sure what can be said in this argument. There were fascists in Britain before the War. This much is indisputable. They did not hold power and formed a small minority of British opinion. This is also not in dispute. We can argue whether they were "significant" or not, but unless we've got a working definition as to what that means (significant to whom? the people who fought them at Cable Street?) I suspect it's all rather futile.

I totally agree with this. I certainly don't think the Fascists were a significant group, especially compared to other countries. However, I think its rather naive to suggest that such groups didn't exist.

MM - Yahwe's line was that Fascism was totally non existent in all but a few people in the whole country. (he litereally means one family and an individual). Which is certainly far from the truth.

Yahwe talking about 60's liberal propaganda is rather far fetched when most writings about Fascism are new revisionist books from the 90's or more recent. No one ever said that Britain was largely Fascist either, I've never heard anything of the sort anywhere.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

Horn - Facism and Communism was growing across Western Europe. In Britain the Daily mail, for example, was fully supportive of Hitler and the war until Britain officially went to War with them. There are actually documented messages between the owner of the Daily Mail and the Nazi party, which came out recently under the new Freedom of Information act.

its what you said.

you appear to have forgotten.

[xtrasyn]

Yahwe

Get a life you sad twit.

[Deffeh]

I didn't read the whole thread, but i felt obliged to state that "Max" was an awful awful film, if someone hasn't mentioned this before.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

its what you said.

you appear to have forgotten.

how is that saying that Britain was a Fascist nation.

1) I said Fascism was growing accross Western Europe. Which is totally true - Italy, Spain and Germany (although Nazism is more extreme) were all Fascist. France was also notably Fascist, but the pre-war Fascists were unsuccessful.

2) The Daily mail was supportive of Hitler. You don't have to go far to see this. Look in the Daily Mail. This again doesn't say Britain is Fascist.

3) I said there were messages relayed between the owner of the Daily Mail and the Nazi Party. This is again true and was discovered in the Mi6 documentation that came out recently through the Freedom of Information Act. It is also alleged that he was trying to insitgate a peace settlement between Britain and Germany before the war started.

No where in that statement did i say that Britain was a Fascist nation or that Britain was 'largely' fascist either. i said there were large groups of Fascists, which is very ambigious i admit. But if you look at the BUF and other groups I still believe they are large groups as Extremists go.

Stop trying to Mis-quote or wrongly intepret what i say, its just pathetic.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by zakoff

MM - Yahwe's line was that Fascism was totally non existent in all but a few people in the whole country. (he litereally means one family and an individual). Which is certainly far from the truth.

Well, I don't know if he's as extreme in his conclusion as you state, but Fascism was an extremely limited business in Britain. To say that the whole movement was only limited to a few individuals is an overstatement, but not a massive one.

Originally Posted by zakoff

how is that saying that Britain was a Fascist nation.

1) I said Fascism was growing accross Western Europe. Which is totally true - Italy, Spain and Germany (although Nazism is more extreme) were all Fascist.

French Fascism didn't fare any better than the British, and neither did it flourish in the low countries, so this idea of a growth in Fascism in Western Europe has to be moderated somewhat. Although it is generally an obvious point. The inter-war years are the only time Fascism has ever had any real political signifigance in Europe.

Oh, and both the extent to which Spain was Fascist could be considered to be a part of Western Europe can be disputed.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by zakoff

2) The Daily mail was supportive of Hitler. You don't have to go far to see this. Look in the Daily Mail. This again doesn't say Britain is Fascist.

3) I said there were messages relayed between the owner of the Daily Mail and the Nazi Party. This is again true and was discovered in the Mi6 documentation that came out recently through the Freedom of Information Act. It is also alleged that he was trying to insitgate a peace settlement between Britain and Germany before the war started.

In arguments, even online ones, it is seldom sufficient to keep repeating a claim to make it true.

what is traditional Is for the person making the claim to provide some proof.

I have asked you before.

I thought I would ask again.

[zakoff]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

In arguments, even online ones, it is seldom sufficient to keep repeating a claim to make it true.

what is traditional Is for the person making the claim to provide some proof.

I have asked you before.

I thought I would ask again.

i wasn't trying to make it true.

I was meerly explaining what i said because you clearly can't read properly and are pathetically trying to misintepret what I say.

[JonnyBGood]

In this thread we've surprisingly learnt that if you don't precisely define your words your arguments are difficult to understand.