Zikonian fleet

[olle]

:: Main Defence ::
Cutter
Rouge
Pirate
Clipper

:: Roid fleet ::
vs. Xan
1. Raider / Clipper
2. Privateer / Cutlass

vs. Terr
1. Raider / Clipper
2. Privateer / Cutter

vs. Cath
1. Privateer / Pirate
2. Raider / Clipper
*Rather hopeless

Anyone agrees or dissagree with the setup?

[themast]

Originally Posted by OK.:.VJ

vs. Cath
1. Privateer / Pirate
2. Raider / Clipper
*Rather hopeless

do you mean ziks are hopless aganist Cath. Or is raider/clipper hopless?

[Agerus]

Zik are just uber!

[olle]

I ment its rather hopeless for Zik Against Cath sinze there anti corvette and battleship haz Initale 1. Whats the best combo against Cath.... ? Is it the one i displayed or...?

[Jester]

At a quick glance, a good way to hit cath is to bring DE killers (ie Cutters.)

If you want to get fancy, bring Clippers and Maurauders too.

But the best way to hit Cath is to bring more ships than they can freeze, and thus as many armor BS as you can.

[Shaithess]

Also, you'll need cutters against most xans... otherwise their lancers tear a decent sized hole in your fleet.

[Helix]

Originally Posted by Jester

At a quick glance, a good way to hit cath is to bring DE killers (ie Cutters.)

If you want to get fancy, bring Clippers and Maurauders too.

But the best way to hit Cath is to bring more ships than they can freeze, and thus as many armor BS as you can.

actually the best way to outflak any ship is to bring the highest # of ships you can. Meaning bring the cheapest ships you can find. Looking at the whole discussion on how combat is done. All that matters really is the # of ships. (imo it would work better if they distributed firepower by the VALUE and not the raw numbers). Therefore the best flak is the cheapest ship you can build which is usually your pods.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Helix

actually the best way to outflak any ship is to bring the highest # of ships you can. Meaning bring the cheapest ships you can find. Looking at the whole discussion on how combat is done. All that matters really is the # of ships. (imo it would work better if they distributed firepower by the VALUE and not the raw numbers). Therefore the best flak is the cheapest ship you can build which is usually your pods.

Kal claims it's by number, Phil^ claims it's by armor present. Either way, getting Pirate or Galleon flak is going to help you loads at staving off those pesky BWs (ie yes, you're quite right).

[Helix]

Originally Posted by Banned

Kal claims it's by number, Phil^ claims it's by armor present. Either way, getting Pirate or Galleon flak is going to help you loads at staving off those pesky BWs (ie yes, you're quite right).

actually phil^ claims it is by # too, unless he really doesn't understand all the crap he went through in that thread in suggestions forum. if you look at his formula the key part is the n/N part. That is the number of ships/number of shipclass. Meaning that the firepower is distributed solely by #. Therefore if you have a very expensive pod and a very cheap normal ship, you would have very nice flak. The more ships you can build the better off you are. (however that only means that they are good flak for the ships you have less present in battle). I really do think they should change it to value though as that would provide for more balanced battles. Cause right now there is a lot of wasted firepower if you try to kill an entire class in battle (as you get a lot wasted on the cheap ships with no armor).

[jerome]

is it not by resources? ie: 100 privateers & 200 cutlass enters a battle etc
100 privs = 325k res
200 cutlass = 780k res

780k+325k = 1105k resources for your side in total at battle, 70% of total resources = your cutlass, so they take up 70% of fire at Co.

Or is this not the case ?

[General Martok]

No. cutlass take 66,6% of the firepower, purely by numbers.

[jerome]

Pffft. :/

[BCEagle]

Originally Posted by Shaithess

Also, you'll need cutters against most xans... otherwise their lancers tear a decent sized hole in your fleet.

If you have a solid numbewr of Cutlasses this shouldn't be that great of an issue as their pulsars should just destroy themselves, they should build a good deal of pulsars as they are only anti DE attack and and DE are fairly powerful this round.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by BCEagle

If you have a solid numbewr of Cutlasses this shouldn't be that great of an issue as their pulsars should just destroy themselves, they should build a good deal of pulsars as they are only anti DE attack and and DE are fairly powerful this round.

A good Xan will move the pulsars. The problem with relying on subverted units is that they're not reliable.

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by Jester

A good Xan will move the pulsars. The problem with relying on subverted units is that they're not reliable.

And add to that that pulsars are combined with dagger/sentinels form the prime attackfleet of xan, so they won't even be at home in most cases.

[Melesse]

Originally Posted by Jester

A good Xan will move the pulsars. The problem with relying on subverted units is that they're not reliable.

Yea, those subverted ships are always going out and getting drunk, leaving the kids at home alone, not reliable at all.

Melesse

[Shaithess]

Originally Posted by Jester

A good Xan will move the pulsars. The problem with relying on subverted units is that they're not reliable.

's'right, I've had ziks lose over 2.5k of their CO on me as they expected my pulsars to be there.

I'm active, and I can play the game, and I know how subversion works, why the hell would I keep my pulsars at home?

[furball]

What should Ziks use as anti-Co? The Thief or Buccaneer?

I'm inclined towards the Buccaneer for its initiative, but the Thief would act as good flak in the Cutlass/Privateer combo.

Help...?

[Melesse]

Yea, but every time I attack a Xan I think he's gonna move his CO so his Vsharraks don't kill his own ships, and without a single exception, every Xan I've attacked has left his CO at home. It's rather silly, and I don't like destroying the fleet at home, they're more likely to try and get some bigger to come beat me up then lol.

Melesse

[Shaithess]

Originally Posted by Melesse

Yea, but every time I attack a Xan I think he's gonna move his CO so his Vsharraks don't kill his own ships, and without a single exception, every Xan I've attacked has left his CO at home. It's rather silly, and I don't like destroying the fleet at home, they're more likely to try and get some bigger to come beat me up then lol.

Melesse

Well then, they're damn stupid

I just stopped building vsh though, they're a terrible ship o_O

If I have vsh home, I either need an immense amount due to their terrible (even for xan...) armour to flak through v. cutlass... OR I need pulsars to stay at home as well as flak, and then I lose huge amounts of lancers.

lancer/broadsword all the way baby! Any xan who goes for Vsh DESERVES those sorts of losses IMO

[furball]

Shaithless - you're forgetting that people in alliances need the eta of Vsh in order to be able to defend their alliance mates.

Also, the Arrowhead is better than the broadsword in every way - armour and damage.

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

Also, the Arrowhead is better than the broadsword in every way - armour and damage.

And being targetted. A nice number of broadswords keeps the zik cutter away, forcing zik to use BS fleets....

[Jester]

Vsh are terrible, Xan should just build enough Lancers to keep from looking too tempting, and use their FI money for Pulsars. Their alliance will no doubt love their ability to target DE without getting subbed/emped/killed.

[Shaithess]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

Shaithless - you're forgetting that people in alliances need the eta of Vsh in order to be able to defend their alliance mates.

Also, the Arrowhead is better than the broadsword in every way - armour and damage.

I still think they suck.

The average zik has a large # of cutlass in their CO attack fleet. If you defend with vsh, in order to destroy the first ship assuming a mere 1000 cutlass (And I've been hit with 2-3k so far and I'm a smallish planet), you'll need over 7000 vsh to begin inflicting damage of any kind. And that's not to mention the fact that your 7000+ subverted vsh are going to wreak havoc amongst any defending thieves, arrowheads (Assuming arrows are sent to destroy cutters) or beetles, even destroying thieves before they can shoot.

Also, the arrowhead armour/cost is 26 and damage/cost is 44. Broadsword is 27 and 45. Additionally, it has an initiative meaning it destroys cutters before they can blast my lancers.

Arrowheads though are undeniably useful in ally def, and as such, I am building a handful, though my general offers to my alliance are my sentinels, pulsars, bombers, or bolt throwers. It's the job of ziks and caths to deal with the eta7 anti CO calls.

[Melesse]

Originally Posted by Shaithess

Well then, they're damn stupid

I just stopped building vsh though, they're a terrible ship o_O

If I have vsh home, I either need an immense amount due to their terrible (even for xan...) armour to flak through v. cutlass... OR I need pulsars to stay at home as well as flak, and then I lose huge amounts of lancers.

lancer/broadsword all the way baby! Any xan who goes for Vsh DESERVES those sorts of losses IMO

Oh, I agreed that's retarded, I was just stating it as what I have encountered. I actually attacked my first person today who ran his fleet, finally an intelligent target!

And I dread Lancers/Broads. Lancers alone I can handle, once you add Broads :-/

Melesse

[Gate]

http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...a97e00e08100ee

Another silly zik landing on my planet, he was about a quarter of my size too so that must have hurt

[jerome]

OR you could just do what I do, aka I just get my galmate to defend my target with Pulsars. Pulsars wipeout defending lancers after being subverted by cutlass, etc. Saves the need for me to bring in fr so broads = useless. etcetc

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

OR you could just do what I do, aka I just get my galmate to defend my target with Pulsars. Pulsars wipeout defending lancers after being subverted by cutlass, etc. Saves the need for me to bring in fr so broads = useless. etcetc

Yeah thats pure evul It's easy to recognise for the experienced players though. Glad my gal got enough tulas against zik:P

[Gate]

That tactic is evil, and I love using it on people

http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...a97e00e08100ee... When will they learn?

[jerome]

what actually are you trying to show from that Battle Report?

Martok - It`s cute how many people don`t even notice it though and when they come online later they assume it`s def from their alliance :p

[General Martok]

People assume too much anyways Glad I'm not that gullible....

[Gate]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

what actually are you trying to show from that Battle Report?

Martok - It`s cute how many people don`t even notice it though and when they come online later they assume it`s def from their alliance

There's this one too now:
http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...86c300e08100ee.


I'm showing proof as to why assuming a target's pulsars will be kept at base is pretty silly tbh. People should stop it; my pulsar pilot's families are missing them!

[jerome]

who said anything about assuming? read what i said, I get my galmate to SEND HIS OWN PULSARS & not rely on the target`s, ok?

[BCEagle]

What do you guys think of the theif, I see it as kind of useless but it kills damn efficently.

[furball]

I took the choice of thieves over buccs. Lets look at the difference between them:

Thief: CO class, shoots CO, killing ship, Init=4, 43 armour/cost, 48 damage/cost
Buccaneer: FR class, shoots CO, subverting ship, init=2, 45 armour/cost, 49 armour/cost


Pros of the Thief: same class as Cutlasses/Privateers (your CO pods) - so enemy only shoots at one ship class, better armour than either so is useful at keeping losses down. Better ETA than the Buccaneer, standard initiative. The most efficient anti-CO killing ship in the game, after the Buccaneer (which subverts).

Cons of the Thief: gets subverted by Buccaneers, and shoots itself (answer: avoids Buccs like the plague. Simple.)


Pros of the Bucc: can subvert Phoenix (to kill DE, esp. Drakes and Pegs), Sents (to kill FI, esp. Vsh and Pulsars), Arrowheads (to kill FR, esp. Bombers and Bolts), Thieves (to kill CO, esp. more thieves)

Cons of the Bucc: useless against Beetles, which fire first - and doesn't hurt them when it shoots. What other FR are you going to use? - Cutters are defence-only ships IMO.


To be honest, using Thieves means that you can attack and defend with FI/CO eta. This is such a big bonus in my eyes that every Zik should have a load of Thieves to complement their Cutlasses and Corsair (shudder, but they're good for alliances). Yes, Buccs do make mincemeat of them - so just avoid Buccs and attack Xans instead. Easy.

[jerome]

Use Buccaneers to roid, Thieves to defend.

[rshih]

Don't listen to jerome. He doesnt know anything about attacking.
Thats why he only has 200 roids :d

[furball]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

Use Buccaneers to roid, Thieves to defend.

Tell me why

I think Thieves are better than Buccs. I also don't see many uses for Buccs when attacking.

argue, etc. you do it on AD, you can do it here!

[jerome]

Buccaneers subvert thieves so you can roid ZIkos with CO/FR (cutlass sub corsairs so np there & clippers sub AFTER buccs so np there either)

Buccaneers also subvert arrows so you can roid xandas without broads with CO+FR (as you`ll likely need cutters to destroy lancers regardless)

[Ultimate Newbie]

As a xan, i just know that whatever a zik chooses to send at you, you get worked over in very short order . In this manner, you can attack cans with either combination and the xans will just blow themselves away, so this point is fairly moot. I was more interested in hearing the Zik's performance against Caths, Terrans and (to a lesser extent) other Ziks - that is, of course, if any Zik has actually launched on a non-xan this round :\

No prizes for guessing that i am slightly bitter about my race choice atm .

[jerome]

ehh, Zikonians hit other zikos with BS all the time .. & also terrans with co/fr :/ and maybe cathaars with a mass-bs rush occasionally.

Building a lot of broads (with lancers) puts away most Zik Co/Fr inc too btw ..

[furball]

I hit terrans with too few gryphons or pegs quite often. Still yet to touch a cathaar, but I regularly hit Ziks with BS too.

And of course I hit Xans....grins even if lancers are not my friend.

[Gerbie]

Cath are easy when they have their tula's far out attacking.

[jerome]

every race is easy if they just send their primary anti-x out ...

[Gate]

Sovereign... the only way a zik can efficiently roid me is by fleetcatching my pulsars, as Hysperian Lancer 1200 Cryveli Broadsword 600 puts a bit of a dent in CO/FR, and I don't have enough roids to make that sort of dent worthwhile! Alternately, the clipper/BS fleet, which isn't as hideous to defend against as the cath roach/widow/CR fleet, as roach are more efficient in halting FR, thus halting centaur/bomber (Not enough terr build hydra :/ ), whilst widows halt pirates, meaning the only way of stopping them for most DCs is teh scarab, which is hard pressed as it needs to stun everything, whilst Zik BS fleets can be done by widows (more efficient than scarabs) or maurauders... Not counting flakking through ofc.


Ryzekiel: I knew what you're on about, I used that sort of tactic last round, mainly for struct-bashing retals, or keeping my clipper safe from pulsars though.

As for attacking with buccs, it makes sense to me. Stops people deffing v. you with thieves, but allows peg/lancer/roach/clipper/buccs to be sent etc. And thieves are a defence ship primarily, I wish more people would build them :/

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Gate

Sovereign... the only way a zik can efficiently roid me is by fleetcatching my pulsars, as Hysperian Lancer 1200 Cryveli Broadsword 600 puts a bit of a dent in CO/FR

or as aforementioned by myself, get LOTS of pulsars sent to defend you by a friend of the attacker & the attacker sends enough cutlasses to sub them & any other fi you have etcetc

[Murador]

As a Zik, I just roid Cath and other Ziks pretty easy, all u must have is a big fleet, in CO or BS, I like most BS, this menas u can roid very easily any cath or Zik with no loses from the primary target, he may get defence, so, it´s your turn to calculate and see what will happen.
As ships has just one target, sending other types of ships, like FR with the raiders, will just turn the defence a little bit more dificult, that u can do also sending large amounts of the ships, like BSs.
As this is my first round in PA, I use this strategy, and it has shown worthly till now, with time, I´ll see what else is good to use, but I sure can say that sending many types of ships is a bad idea.

[Peets]

roiding a zik is also very easy for a cath