[DISCUSS]My little suggestion

[Legator]

Payment
________


Random Planets comlete free and no limitations (or maybe they need double time for scan/speed research and cant research the last thing in the tree) but i would go for no limitations. Maybe also place some banners there - dont know if that makes sense or is any good idea. I know that this might raise the numbers of the cheaters - but no gain without giving. Hunt them. (really do)

Private galaxies = have to be paid. Give them maybe a little advantage like ingaldefence eta 2 instead of 3 with fighters (i want the old races back - but to that later).

Take like 150 bucks for a galaxy in a 3 month round (fair price imo). I bet of the current base 1000 for sure would pay and maybe + 300 of those people who left for the new stats.

1300/10*150 = 19500 - i think no to bad for a start (tho i dont know the costs) + additional maybe some adds at the random planets bring money.

I think those people who want to play in private galaxies will pay for it. I also think it will be the same amount atleast like this round and due to bringing back the old races maybe also some people who already quit the game due to the new pa.

With the random and free accounts the universe will grow again and might bring future clients for private galaxies.



Marketing
_________


Send newsletter via EMAIL. This is essential, keep the people INFORMED - or just give some signs that its alive, that something is happening. Not put them on the portal, search your database (if you have any) and EMAIL all you got in there - of course with the ability to unsubscribe.

Use the tools jolt offers, update announcments on their boards etc. Dont know where to do it but thats your part. Make something like the gamespy-newsletter just that the whole theme is pa. Once a week a little bit of information (maybe include the alliances-history or whatever) is better than one long post in 1231 month. Maybe put the creators-hour (is it still existing??) into such a newsletter - JUST KEEP IN CONTACT WITH YOUR CLIENTS !


The game itself
_____________

At first of course make the stats visible for everyone - and make it COMPLETE. Guessing sux, especially for new people . Inform them about alliances and how to get there - step by step. Go into the very detail. Dont leave new people blindly lost in this game.


I would want the old races back - as they were in round 9. But i would change some dynamics. Most might not agree but i would say it should be harder to roid someone.

With getting the races back we should NOT remove the alliance eta bonus. So also small alliances have a chance to defend their members plus the ability to be able to get fighter defense also from "friends" who arent in the same alliance might easier save their roids. Of course also the bigger alliance will have advantages in that - but nothing is easy in this world

Example : Xan attacks eta 7 - after tick eta 6. Defense with fighter = eta 6 or even eta 5 for the alliance.

Positive more time to cover your incs. Negative - the better organized will be very hard to roid - but what is the differense to now ? You need to attack almost the whole alliance to get through so not much of a change. As said nothing is easy.

Keep the limit of an alliance at 100.
Keep the galaxysize at 10 - even if a good amount of planets will be there.
Shuffle like in old times !!!!
Maybe dont allow more than 3 alliances in one private galaxy (dont know if that has any sense and it maybe would block that friends could play together but on the other hand it COULD avoid an Uberblock - maybe the alliances hc´s have to enter before the round starts which alliances will be allowed in their galaxies.....the more i write bout it the more i doubt its a good idea lol)


I really wonder why i wrote this, but fact is im heaily board and the business before easter is very calm lol

[Qdeathstar]

the creators simply do not want to listen to the demands of its players, Legator. Those ideas are brilliant.

[Qdeathstar]

i would only add a paid forum for bitching and, then a free forum hwere only good thigns can be saide :-)

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

the creators simply do not want to listen to the demands of its players, Legator. Those ideas are brilliant.

hey thx

lol, i didnt expect a reply anymore lol. atleast one person agrees. but well, i really think that is THE key to success.

[Kal]

most of it is ok, some fo it will happen, some of it will not.

I know for instance that there is an exciting new payment thing coming for round 11

I expect free planets to be mroe playable than they are now.

I expect the combat/eta system for the actual round to be closer to round 9 than it is now

I expect that there will be speed games and other special events with entirly different combat set ups than exist in the actual round.

I think your account price is to high, but PAteam has no control over price anyway, so who knows.

I totally agree with you on the newsletter - i hear the new portal design will enable that.


So all in all I think PAteam have listened and that round 11 will be what is needed, but they are keeping things quiet to prevent evil clones copying their 1337 ideas.

[themast]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

most of it is ok, some fo it will happen, some of it will not.

I know for instance that there is an exciting new payment thing coming for round 11

I expect free planets to be mroe playable than they are now.

I expect the combat/eta system for the actual round to be closer to round 9 than it is now

I expect that there will be speed games and other special events with entirly different combat set ups than exist in the actual round.

I think your account price is to high, but PAteam has no control over price anyway, so who knows.

I totally agree with you on the newsletter - i hear the new portal design will enable that.


So all in all I think PAteam have listened and that round 11 will be what is needed, but they are keeping things quiet to prevent evil clones copying their 1337 ideas.

i hope so

[Legator]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

most of it is ok, some fo it will happen, some of it will not.

I know for instance that there is an exciting new payment thing coming for round 11

I expect free planets to be mroe playable than they are now.

I expect the combat/eta system for the actual round to be closer to round 9 than it is now

I expect that there will be speed games and other special events with entirly different combat set ups than exist in the actual round.

I think your account price is to high, but PAteam has no control over price anyway, so who knows.

I totally agree with you on the newsletter - i hear the new portal design will enable that.


So all in all I think PAteam have listened and that round 11 will be what is needed, but they are keeping things quiet to prevent evil clones copying their 1337 ideas.

an exciting new payment model ??? lol - this sort of game will only survive if it gains FRESH blood, "old" players will go on retiring - every round a few and almost NO new players will be gainend - theres only one way - i wrote it above how (how arrogant and easy to say from me )

" I expect free planets to be mroe playable than they are now. " it wont be enough - it must be like i described or in a similar way, im not saying this in the way i do because "i know everything" im saying this because its a fact that this is the only way to save pa.

"I think your account price is to high, but PAteam has no control over price anyway, so who knows." - well, my suggestion wasnt only directed to pa team, also to jolt or whoever in this invisible company is responsible.


"So all in all I think PAteam have listened and that round 11 will be what is needed, but they are keeping things quiet to prevent evil clones copying their 1337 ideas" - LOL (sorry, but im waiting for leet ideas since round 8 - or even earlier)



The time of "trying out" should be over. the game will NOT survive with a way like in the last rounds or even only a slightly similar way.

i think really it can only survive in a way i described.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by themast

i hope so

only hope is free accounts with full option AND payment for private galaxies.

[Jonas]

not a bad suggestion at all...

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Legator

an exciting new payment model ??? lol - this sort of game will only survive if it gains FRESH blood, "old" players will go on retiring - every round a few and almost NO new players will be gainend - theres only one way - i wrote it above how (how arrogant and easy to say from me )

" I expect free planets to be mroe playable than they are now. " it wont be enough - it must be like i described or in a similar way, im not saying this in the way i do because "i know everything" im saying this because its a fact that this is the only way to save pa.

"I think your account price is to high, but PAteam has no control over price anyway, so who knows." - well, my suggestion wasnt only directed to pa team, also to jolt or whoever in this invisible company is responsible.


"So all in all I think PAteam have listened and that round 11 will be what is needed, but they are keeping things quiet to prevent evil clones copying their 1337 ideas" - LOL (sorry, but im waiting for leet ideas since round 8 - or even earlier)



The time of "trying out" should be over. the game will NOT survive with a way like in the last rounds or even only a slightly similar way.

i think really it can only survive in a way i described.

the exciting payment model with have free accouts as part of it and i expect them to be SIGNIFICANTLY less limited that they are now.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

the exciting payment model with have free accouts as part of it and i expect them to be SIGNIFICANTLY less limited that they are now.

that means they must be random for me :P and paid private.

of course best would be if whole universe only would be random and free. but there must be a way for both systems. private galaxies encourage lameness as very well shown again in this around but seems it must be accepted. if you want an advantage you pay for it and can play with your friends or whatever in a private galaxies.

and maybe ONCE all betonheads in this game realize that uberblocking is lame. i dont want to know how many people will leave this round agian because of the stupidity of like 20 hc´s.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Legator

Random Planets comlete free and no limitations (or maybe they need double time for scan/speed research and cant research the last thing in the tree) but i would go for no limitations. Maybe also place some banners there - dont know if that makes sense or is any good idea. I know that this might raise the numbers of the cheaters - but no gain without giving. Hunt them. (really do)

People seem to have this strange idea that being free is a perfect soloution to PA's problems, trust me its not the case. BEING free would attract pretty much NO long term players, youd get some new casual player who would quit after a few weeks or so but very few players who would stick around. The reason for this is the game itself just isnt 'good' enough to keep new players playing and the game was about to hit the exact same problems it did even without P2P. By round 4 the game had swung so far from its original fun and 'balanced' (using a loose definition here, stats and such were unbalanced but the game community was and allowed everyone to have fun) that people were becoming disalussioned. You could see this change in the community throughout r3 and r4 and I feel the game was at a stage where the numbers were about to start falling anyway, P2P just resulted in many who werent sure and whom would have stuck around for another round or 2 to make up their mind and quit there and then.

Now p2p is failing because the games not worth the time and money a smaller player has to put in because the games unbalanced, and fewer players makes it less appealing for the big players who also then quit, this means many of those who going free would be intending to attract simply wont be attracted back while the games like it is, they need a game where they know they can have fun and their efforts rewarded, not a game where theres no real fun as your putting in loads of effort just to stop your ships being totally wipped out by bashers.

Private galaxies = have to be paid. Give them maybe a little advantage like ingaldefence eta 2 instead of 3 with fighters (i want the old races back - but to that later).

Take like 150 bucks for a galaxy in a 3 month round (fair price imo). I bet of the current base 1000 for sure would pay and maybe + 300 of those people who left for the new stats.

1300/10*150 = 19500 - i think no to bad for a start (tho i dont know the costs) + additional maybe some adds at the random planets bring money.

I think those people who want to play in private galaxies will pay for it. I also think it will be the same amount atleast like this round and due to bringing back the old races maybe also some people who already quit the game due to the new pa.

This is one of the reasons why players are scared off though, it gives too much power to the top players and makes survival as a smaller player almost impossible. And tbh your figures are probally way out, perhaps just over half the players would pay for private galaxies as the only real advantage over a free aco****, the smaller half of the game would generally not bother for so little bonus because for most a private galaxy doesnt bring that much more protection hence it isnt worthwhile

I would want the old races back - as they were in round 9. But i would change some dynamics. Most might not agree but i would say it should be harder to roid someone.

With getting the races back we should NOT remove the alliance eta bonus. So also small alliances have a chance to defend their members plus the ability to be able to get fighter defense also from "friends" who arent in the same alliance might easier save their roids. Of course also the bigger alliance will have advantages in that - but nothing is easy in this world

Example : Xan attacks eta 7 - after tick eta 6. Defense with fighter = eta 6 or even eta 5 for the alliance.

Positive more time to cover your incs. Negative - the better organized will be very hard to roid - but what is the differense to now ? You need to attack almost the whole alliance to get through so not much of a change. As said nothing is easy.

Theres a debate about this over on the rnd11 update thread on the PD forum, where the problem of dynamic eta and how it helps unbalance the gaem is brought up

Keep the limit of an alliance at 100.

The limits too high, PA was always at its best with many alliances able to compete. With the shrinking playerbase everyone is just flocking to the top alliances thus reducing compitition. The limit needs to be more realistic and actually needs to be a % of playerbase rather than a static number so we dont get any more of these over optimistic guesses at playing numbers that produce such compartaivly large limits
[/quote]

[mist]

Originally Posted by Legator

lol, i didnt expect a reply anymore lol. atleast one person agrees. but well, i really think that is THE key to success.

righty, not a member of the pateam, but i'm guessing their thinking (yes, people do actually read these posts) is something like this:

Originally Posted by legator

Random Planets comlete free and no limitations (or maybe they need double time for scan/speed research and cant research the last thing in the tree) but i would go for no limitations. Maybe also place some banners there - dont know if that makes sense or is any good idea. I know that this might raise the numbers of the cheaters - but no gain without giving. Hunt them. (really do)

completely free and no limitations... so why would someone pay? jolt needs to make enough money to pay for the pa servers, otherwise they'll be used for something else. therefore pa needs an income. if free accounts are too good people won't pay, pa dies. also, this has been suggested how many times before? i'm fairly sure the same comments still apply so there's little point repeating them *again*

double time for researches, been suggested before so again, why comment? not being able to do the last thing on the tree - seems rathers similar to what's been done now, only less restrictive - there's a balance between people paying for accounts and not paying for them, how many people would take free accounts rather than paid under this suggestion? i'm guessing it would loose planetarion money while increasing bandwidth requirements - ultimatly driving up the price for those who DO pay. anyone want to pay more so that someone who won't pay can still play?

raising the number of cheaters - always a problem. multi hunting has improved out of sight from round 9 etc, at least - the tools have. however there's still a multitude of excuses that people trot out, for example the "i was hacked" thread that was on here a while back. for free accounts i guess you can say "tough luck" more often, but it gets the game a bad name (then again, people will complain about anything). i can't see "pay and you're less likely to get caught cheating" being a great selling point either

hunting cheaters - well, duh. however, there's only so much you can do. untill everyone has a national id card with biometrics on that pa can use there's not a lot to be done about people who multi etc. sure, some will be caught, but the "good" multis will get away with it, at least long enough to ruin the round for some legit players.

Originally Posted by legator

Private galaxies = have to be paid. Give them maybe a little advantage like ingaldefence eta 2 instead of 3 with fighters (i want the old races back - but to that later).

paid private gals. how origonal. none of the previous comments could apply to it this time tho, could they... however, i'm fairly sure that the lower in gal eta is new, not something i remember dismissing as a silly idea before anyway. however, rather than slander it, i'll point you to the numerous wakey hijacked threads that point out the evils of fortress galaxies and the like

races back, again, not the most origonal suggestion in the world. worth commention on again, probably not.

Originally Posted by legislator

Take like 150 bucks for a galaxy in a 3 month round (fair price imo). I bet of the current base 1000 for sure would pay and maybe + 300 of those people who left for the new stats.

that's 15bucks a planet, or (assuming you mean $) about £10. sounds like a familar price, which got complained about incessantly as being too high. somehow i can't see this one being popular. i'll refer you to all the player feedback for comments on it, i'm sure they're more elequant than the pateam could manage

Originally Posted by legislator

I think those people who want to play in private galaxies will pay for it. I also think it will be the same amount atleast like this round and due to bringing back the old races maybe also some people who already quit the game due to the new pa.

been said already, repeatedly, there's a been a whole thread on the private galaxies, i'd link it, but someone seems to have killed it. again, bringing back races isn't exactly new.

Originally Posted by you some more

With the random and free accounts the universe will grow again and might bring future clients for private galaxies.

possibly so, possibly not. while it may grow the universe, i'm not convinced it'd actually pay for the round that ran, and without that there's not a lot of point. free games are a nice idea, but without servers they tend to be quite crap.

Originally Posted by you on marketing

Send newsletter via EMAIL. This is essential, keep the people INFORMED - or just give some signs that its alive, that something is happening. Not put them on the portal, search your database (if you have any) and EMAIL all you got in there - of course with the ability to unsubscribe.

keeping people informed, fair enough. the sending out e-mail, interesting you mention it. i believe this was done before round 10.5, and you can see the results. i'm still not convinced of its legality (under uk law, you were suppsed to drop all e-mails from mailing lists which wern't frequently used and who'm hadn't given an opt in response - came in to effect late last year but pa seemed to ignore it) either way, it doesn't seem to have had the earth shattering effect that you seem to think it would have. either way, it's not a new idea, so why comment?

Originally Posted by you on marketing some more

Use the tools jolt offers, update announcments on their boards etc. Dont know where to do it but thats your part. Make something like the gamespy-newsletter just that the whole theme is pa. Once a week a little bit of information (maybe include the alliances-history or whatever) is better than one long post in 1231 month. Maybe put the creators-hour (is it still existing??) into such a newsletter - JUST KEEP IN CONTACT WITH YOUR CLIENTS !

the tools jolt offers, this means getting jolt to do something - i think my view on them's been fairly widely reported, so i'd best steer clear of this one. newsletter involves mailing people (whom jolt don't seem to be allowed to do really). pa already has problems mailing some isps 'cus it's on their spam lists. i can't see this helping the problem. creator's hours, dunno if there is one at the moment, don't think so. do agree that they should come back tho. problem is that at the moment most of the questions would be about features of r11 that noone is willing to discuss, so they'd not be that exciting. do agree 110% with the keeping in contact tho, however karm seems to be doing that at the moment with his thread here at the moment.

Originally Posted by you on how the game should be run

At first of course make the stats visible for everyone - and make it COMPLETE. Guessing sux, especially for new people . Inform them about alliances and how to get there - step by step. Go into the very detail. Dont leave new people blindly lost in this game.

Originally Posted by PA announcement made 5 days before you posted this

a new manual (which for the first time in pa history will actually pull stats and and tech tree from the game)

i'll leave you to do the math on this one

Originally Posted by you repeating yourself and making a completely unjustified statement

I would want the old races back - as they were in round 9. But i would change some dynamics. Most might not agree but i would say it should be harder to roid someone.

old races back, again, covered alreadly.
making roiding harder - unless you back it up with an argument as to why it's not really worth commenting on, asside from anything else it seems like a silly idea - the game stagnates easilly enough anyway

Originally Posted by some more unjustified stuff

Keep the limit of an alliance at 100.
Keep the galaxysize at 10 - even if a good amount of planets will be there.
Shuffle like in old times !!!!
Maybe dont allow more than 3 alliances in one private galaxy (dont know if that has any sense and it maybe would block that friends could play together but on the other hand it COULD avoid an Uberblock - maybe the alliances hc´s have to enter before the round starts which alliances will be allowed in their galaxies.....the more i write bout it the more i doubt its a good idea lol)

why keep it at 10? why not 9, or 12? especially with your suggestion about 3 alliances made later.
shuffle - why?
limit the number of alliances in a gal - this means forcing people to stay in the same alliance all round. have you thought about that? even so, isn't 3 alliances too many if you're wanting to stop blocking. what's this going to do with blocking anyway, anything at all? again, completely unjustified. you even say it's not a good idea yourself

Originally Posted by the bit i agree with

I really wonder why i wrote this

really, why did you write this? it's a mess of ideas that have already been suggested - do you think repeating them will make them more popular, do you think that repeating them will make them more feasable? if you'd *just* posted the idea about making privte gals with -1 eta for paid people i'd have commented ages ago - as i said, it seems to be about the only new thing in your post. however burried in all the other crap i couldn't be bothered. i suspect others feel the same way.

personally, i can see why the pateam didn't comment on this - it's all been said before! if you'd taken the time to find the right threads you could have commented on it there and saved people the effort of reading through the same ideas again. if you want comments, come up with something new, or even come up with a new and well justified slant on something old. don't repeat, because most others can't be bothered to repeat the answers back.

the suggestions forum is a good idea, and i read 99% of the stuff that goes up here, because some of it is new, well thought out and interesting. however the majority seems to be repeats of old threads, most of which are unfeasable, unthought out or reached an agreement that actually the idea was pretty lame anyway.

-mist
edited to fix a quote [] problem

[Kal]

lol nice post mist

I have to say that I agree with what some of legator has said, but that I think its allready common knowledge that some of the will be at least possible in round 11.

I personally don;t think that their shoudl be random gals at all, but maybe a highly limited private packs scenario - i.e. limited to the extent that you can just be with 1 friend.

I think tha pa needs to do the impossible - offer more challenge to the current players, whiel making things easier for new players - thats what we need ideas for, not things that have been discussed repeatedly.

[Qdeathstar]

well.... mist is furious.

Let me give you a clue as to why they are said over and over gain.

Your customers want it, its as good idea, and you havent implimented.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

well.... mist is furious.

Let me give you a clue as to why they are said over and over gain.

Your customers want it, its as good idea, and you havent implimented.

Thats because most of them arent particular good ideas. Alot of the ideas in the thread are the same old ideas that have been rejected because they simply arent that good or because the person making them either doesnt understand the situtaion fully or simply hasnt put the effort into explaining or justifying their reasons (something this thread is quilty of at times)

[Qdeathstar]

i doubt that if your hearing the same thing over and over again over years by a mojority of players who ACTUALLY PLAY, that it could be wrong...

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

i doubt that if your hearing the same thing over and over again over years by a mojority of players who ACTUALLY PLAY, that it could be wrong...

Your falling into the same trap PATeam and Creators have fallen into over and over again by assuming that the view of the forums is that of the majority. Alot of the changes that do happen come from the forums users pressure because of this.

However theres alot of things which dont get that far because the forum users simply dont understand what they are talking about and they are requesting the same thing over and over again even though its simply not workable. As I say over and over again we the players are in no situation to try and design this game, we are free to put over our points and the points should be listened to but we shouldnt dictate what happens because we dont have the full picture, theres enough of this happen already without 'demanding' everything the forum wants should be done.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by wakey

Thats because most of them arent particular good ideas. Alot of the ideas in the thread are the same old ideas that have been rejected because they simply arent that good or because the person making them either doesnt understand the situtaion fully or simply hasnt put the effort into explaining or justifying their reasons (something this thread is quilty of at times)

they werent ever tried really.

your one of those guys who would play the game with 500 customers, problem is there arent much ppl like you.

many people left the game to the clones ALSO cause of pax and the SMALL numbers in the playerbase besides the well known problem p2p.

your really blind enough to believe that the game will survive with the few changes which will come.

but maybe your right, that the game doesnt really attract new players, on the other hand it will dry out round after round.....i think it should be tried exactly how i explained.

[Kal]

round 11 is not just a few changes, round 11 will be imo what pax should have been.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by mist

righty, not a member of the pateam, but i'm guessing their thinking (yes, people do actually read these posts) is something like this:



completely free and no limitations... so why would someone pay? jolt needs to make enough money to pay for the pa servers, otherwise they'll be used for something else. therefore pa needs an income. if free accounts are too good people won't pay, pa dies. also, this has been suggested how many times before? i'm fairly sure the same comments still apply so there's little point repeating them *again*

double time for researches, been suggested before so again, why comment? not being able to do the last thing on the tree - seems rathers similar to what's been done now, only less restrictive - there's a balance between people paying for accounts and not paying for them, how many people would take free accounts rather than paid under this suggestion? i'm guessing it would loose planetarion money while increasing bandwidth requirements - ultimatly driving up the price for those who DO pay. anyone want to pay more so that someone who won't pay can still play?

raising the number of cheaters - always a problem. multi hunting has improved out of sight from round 9 etc, at least - the tools have. however there's still a multitude of excuses that people trot out, for example the "i was hacked" thread that was on here a while back. for free accounts i guess you can say "tough luck" more often, but it gets the game a bad name (then again, people will complain about anything). i can't see "pay and you're less likely to get caught cheating" being a great selling point either

hunting cheaters - well, duh. however, there's only so much you can do. untill everyone has a national id card with biometrics on that pa can use there's not a lot to be done about people who multi etc. sure, some will be caught, but the "good" multis will get away with it, at least long enough to ruin the round for some legit players.



paid private gals. how origonal. none of the previous comments could apply to it this time tho, could they... however, i'm fairly sure that the lower in gal eta is new, not something i remember dismissing as a silly idea before anyway. however, rather than slander it, i'll point you to the numerous wakey hijacked threads that point out the evils of fortress galaxies and the like

races back, again, not the most origonal suggestion in the world. worth commention on again, probably not.



that's 15bucks a planet, or (assuming you mean $) about £10. sounds like a familar price, which got complained about incessantly as being too high. somehow i can't see this one being popular. i'll refer you to all the player feedback for comments on it, i'm sure they're more elequant than the pateam could manage



been said already, repeatedly, there's a been a whole thread on the private galaxies, i'd link it, but someone seems to have killed it. again, bringing back races isn't exactly new.



possibly so, possibly not. while it may grow the universe, i'm not convinced it'd actually pay for the round that ran, and without that there's not a lot of point. free games are a nice idea, but without servers they tend to be quite crap.



keeping people informed, fair enough. the sending out e-mail, interesting you mention it. i believe this was done before round 10.5, and you can see the results. i'm still not convinced of its legality (under uk law, you were suppsed to drop all e-mails from mailing lists which wern't frequently used and who'm hadn't given an opt in response - came in to effect late last year but pa seemed to ignore it) either way, it doesn't seem to have had the earth shattering effect that you seem to think it would have. either way, it's not a new idea, so why comment?



the tools jolt offers, this means getting jolt to do something - i think my view on them's been fairly widely reported, so i'd best steer clear of this one. newsletter involves mailing people (whom jolt don't seem to be allowed to do really). pa already has problems mailing some isps 'cus it's on their spam lists. i can't see this helping the problem. creator's hours, dunno if there is one at the moment, don't think so. do agree that they should come back tho. problem is that at the moment most of the questions would be about features of r11 that noone is willing to discuss, so they'd not be that exciting. do agree 110% with the keeping in contact tho, however karm seems to be doing that at the moment with his thread here at the moment.





i'll leave you to do the math on this one



old races back, again, covered alreadly.
making roiding harder - unless you back it up with an argument as to why it's not really worth commenting on, asside from anything else it seems like a silly idea - the game stagnates easilly enough anyway



why keep it at 10? why not 9, or 12? especially with your suggestion about 3 alliances made later.
shuffle - why?
limit the number of alliances in a gal - this means forcing people to stay in the same alliance all round. have you thought about that? even so, isn't 3 alliances too many if you're wanting to stop blocking. what's this going to do with blocking anyway, anything at all? again, completely unjustified. you even say it's not a good idea yourself



really, why did you write this? it's a mess of ideas that have already been suggested - do you think repeating them will make them more popular, do you think that repeating them will make them more feasable? if you'd *just* posted the idea about making privte gals with -1 eta for paid people i'd have commented ages ago - as i said, it seems to be about the only new thing in your post. however burried in all the other crap i couldn't be bothered. i suspect others feel the same way.

personally, i can see why the pateam didn't comment on this - it's all been said before! if you'd taken the time to find the right threads you could have commented on it there and saved people the effort of reading through the same ideas again. if you want comments, come up with something new, or even come up with a new and well justified slant on something old. don't repeat, because most others can't be bothered to repeat the answers back.

the suggestions forum is a good idea, and i read 99% of the stuff that goes up here, because some of it is new, well thought out and interesting. however the majority seems to be repeats of old threads, most of which are unfeasable, unthought out or reached an agreement that actually the idea was pretty lame anyway.

-mist
edited to fix a quote [] problem

as im to bored to quote everything ill use numbers.

1. why would someone pay - because people would take the advantage of private gals, simply as it is.

2. "not researching to the last thing in the tree ..." - thats NOT similar to now, NOW your arent able to do shit. play a freebie account and you will know what i mean.

3. round 4 was cheaters heaven...still was funny. theres no gain without giving.

4. read what i said, i dont like private galaxies, if the idea is original or not. you need fresh blood (like it or not) and i think the way i said is THE solution - and those who like private galaxies pay for it because they are surely an advantage.

5. races back - not worth to comment ? get real......

6. 15 bucks - i never complained about the price.....

7. never said that im the owner or founder of my "suggestions" - im only underlining the immediate need of them.

8. id say my system would work - that also would include enough customers for stable server.

9. i never received an email like a newsletter

10. mist - i never said pateam should respond here, so before you try to make jokes on that one read what i said and try to get the sense. i only said "im surprised someone replies" because qdeatstar was the first who wrote something after a day or 2 and so i thought this thread was bullshit. so before poking me try to read or just stfu.

11. gladly your part of this now, you atleast try to keep the customers happy.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by wakey

However theres alot of things which dont get that far because the forum users simply dont understand what they are talking about and they are requesting the same thing over and over again even though its simply not workable. As I say over and over again we the players are in no situation to try and design this game, we are free to put over our points and the points should be listened to but we shouldnt dictate what happens because we dont have the full picture, theres enough of this happen already without 'demanding' everything the forum wants should be done.

your so wrong - "we" are those who normally decide, because we pay. if we dont like it we leave (like it happened the last 298347029347234 rounds) and the games goes bankrupty.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Legator

11. gladly your part of this now, you atleast try to keep the customers happy.

having just told me i'm wrong on all counts i'm going to take that as sarcasm. anyway, either way. post ideas one a thread and back them up and you'll go a lot further. failing all else you'll at least stand a decent chance of getting a reason why the idea isn't been taken up.

although, having said that, it's difficult for the pateam to commet on the suggestions board (this i can say from experience) because there's this problem that people don't want ideas to leak. it's hard to comment on an idea you intend to include without letting things slip, and if you comment on everything but what you intend to include it's fairly obvious what's going on.

sad world eh?

-mist

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Legator

your so wrong - "we" are those who normally decide, because we pay. if we dont like it we leave (like it happened the last 298347029347234 rounds) and the games goes bankrupty.

While your right that in most cases that the customer is always right, GAME DESIGN isnt one of them. Trying to please customers is where almost all games that fail fall down (other being trying to please the money men). You see no matter how much the players think they understand the game they never really do. All they understand is one small area of the top layer and they have no true understanding of the inner workings. Its easy for people to sit here and collect a bunch of ideas and throw them together and say "all this should be done" but just because each sounds good on paper doesnt mean they would work. Something small can have drastic side effects and thats where many of PA's problems have come from. They have implemented things to 'please' the current players only for it to make the game worse for the majority and thus instead of keeping players it has teh reverse effect.

Something people really have to learn is the golden rule of developing a good game is to design the game to only please yourself because if you produce a game you would like to play the chances are there are others out there that will enjoy it also, as soon as you start pandering to the players wants you produce a game thats a mess because its a missmatch of ideas.

Customers simply shouldnt be the driving force behind development, that should be the urge to produce the best game you can which means a game thats fun and balanced and a little bit different. What customers should be are Muses to the developers, they can provide ideas and feedback which can help inspire them

[Legator]

Originally Posted by mist

having just told me i'm wrong on all counts i'm going to take that as sarcasm. anyway, either way. post ideas one a thread and back them up and you'll go a lot further. failing all else you'll at least stand a decent chance of getting a reason why the idea isn't been taken up.

although, having said that, it's difficult for the pateam to commet on the suggestions board (this i can say from experience) because there's this problem that people don't want ideas to leak. it's hard to comment on an idea you intend to include without letting things slip, and if you comment on everything but what you intend to include it's fairly obvious what's going on.

sad world eh?

-mist

back them up ? its common knowledge. again i will say that my origin post where i said "im surprised someone atlesat responses was i no way directed to any in the pateam - i just thought it was so uninteresting that none (including forum members) replied.

also i think i summarized in my origin post what i think. dont know why i should back it up twice ?

fact is most liked the old stats and not the new pa.

"and if you comment on everything but what you intend to include it's fairly obvious what's going on" - lol telling me in your first long reply that everything has been posted over and over again and that its not worth to comment again your a really joke wanting to me backing up everything again (what i did in my first post already)"

[Kal]

how can u say most like something? what most do u speak for? Have u asked everyone?

[Legator]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

how can u say most like something? what most do u speak for? Have u asked everyone?

ok - im wrong with what i said - and im maybe only talking for a small playerbase.

you proved me wrong.

the last rounds proved that your all right and i was to blind until now that i was wrong.

[Appocomaster]

I totally agree with mist and wakey on this. About the only thing I'm not sure about is limiting the number of alliances in a galaxy - it will help stop blocking.
Free random planets, even nerfed, won't help. the word "Free" attracts lots of people, but some people will only play if it's free. I know, this is how i played r6. if you nerf them too much, to force people to pay to play, then any people who are coming in will just get slaughtered around 3-4 weeks into the round, if not before. a free universe isn't the solution, unless carefully monitored.

Searching old databases - which aren't even probably around - for addresses, is (as has been discussed before) illegal under the data protection act, and would get complaints. The best that can be done is having some way of signing up on the portal for it.
and a newsletter? with what in it? It sounds good, but you quickly run out of ideas. Finding people with enough motivation and free time to write articles and find well known old public figures to interview isn't the easiest thing. How many people would want to do it, in pratice? It's easy to say you will, but who will organise it, and make the decisions, and decide what goes in it?

The PA Team can't release too much information or comment too much, as mist said. They're trying, from the suggestions list and with communication with the HC's, as well as some ideas of their own, to make the game they think will suit us best - if nothing else this game should be impressive because of the sheer flexibility it seems to be able to have. up until the last minute it is possible to play with or without pods, with or without initations, etc. that must take quite a bit of extra coding if you think about the ticker situation. I like the idea, as mentioned by Karmulian, about renting the game out - I'm sure, depending on the price, people will be willing to play speedgames - some people just live for them, spending a weekend playing. how many people would club together to play games old or new?

I think the PA Team try their best to combine the wishes of the community with what they think has survival value and will actual work in the game. It has changed in the last couple of years - quite a lot in some ways - and remember, the earlier rounds had quite a bit less reliabilty some days. at least people seem to be meeting deadlines now...

[Qdeathstar]

how can u say most like something

id say that when it keeps being brought up again and again by a number of different people in an number of diferent rounds..... its safe to assume.

[Qdeathstar]

newsletter? with what in it? It sounds good, but you quickly run out of ideas. Finding people with enough motivation and free time to write articles and find well known old public figures to interview isn't the easiest thing. How many people would want to do it, in pratice? It's easy to say you will, but who will organise it, and make the decisions, and decide what goes in it?

we have a news letter... he was just talking about mailing it.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar in this thread

i doubt that if your hearing the same thing over and over again over years by a mojority of players who ACTUALLY PLAY, that it could be wrong...

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar later in this thread

how can u say most like something

id say that when it keeps being brought up again and again by a number of different people in an number of diferent rounds..... its safe to assume.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar in a thread on bots, 29th Jan

Being that we are facing dwindling numbers.. and bot planets have existed in the past.. .why not bring them back, although under new managment OFC..

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar in the same thread, 11th April

i dont think this will solve many of PAs problems anyway..

i've lost count of the number of people who've suggested bots... yet given time for a sensible debate you've decided that they're not a good idea, despite it being suggested loads of times before. anyway, the relevance to this thread - just because people repeat an idea a lot doesn't mean it's a good one. it doesn't even mean THEY think it's a good one!

-mist

[mist]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

we have a news letter... he was just talking about mailing it.

this would be the news letter headed by two player interviews with people who don't play pa? (forest having told me that he's quit and phil being in pateam so not being allowed an alliance, ergo not playing for all intents and pruposes)... after that i stopped reading

a newsletter is a nice idea, but it needs to be something that'll attract players, and it needs to be about pa. the current newsletter doesn't seem to be it

-mist

[Legator]

Originally Posted by mist

this would be the news letter headed by two player interviews with people who don't play pa? (forest having told me that he's quit and phil being in pateam so not being allowed an alliance, ergo not playing for all intents and pruposes)... after that i stopped reading

a newsletter is a nice idea, but it needs to be something that'll attract players, and it needs to be about pa. the current newsletter doesn't seem to be it

-mist

wow, a miracle has been solved (sarcasm)

of course a newsletter should have news in it...about a running round, news on pa itself etc.

the key idea of a newsletter is that people have the feeling something is happening, that the game doesnt gets forget, especially BETWEEN the rounds.......or the long breakes pa had between the last 3 rounds (where the game got much better without the old races ) many ppl quit because they thought pa died or they didnt get updated (many = good sum)

[mist]

the problem is what to put in the news letter. again it comes down to what people can and can't be told. for example, development is going on with round 11, but as a load of the features arn't public it's hard to put in news entries saying they're being developed - "11th april - finalised stats for death star" would rather give away that there's going to be a death star (no, there isn't, really, at least, if there is noone's told me). as for the current round... i've no idea what's going on there as i'm not playing it. anything worth reporting?

-mist

[Qdeathstar]

Mist, you dumb@ss. :-/ u really pist me off here... :-/ ..


I think bots are a great idea. Still do. But bots WONT solve ALL of PA's PROBLEMS which is WHAT i sad...:-/ Sigh..... i HAVNT change MY mind ABOUT anything. :-/.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Mist, you dumb@ss. :-/ u really pist me off here... :-/ ..


I think bots are a great idea. Still do. But bots WONT solve ALL of PA's PROBLEMS which is WHAT i sad...:-/ Sigh..... i HAVNT change MY mind ABOUT anything. :-/.

dont bother about such things, thats happening since round 8, thats just the reaction fo something they know (the death of the game) but they still not accept.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by mist

the problem is what to put in the news letter. again it comes down to what people can and can't be told. for example, development is going on with round 11, but as a load of the features arn't public it's hard to put in news entries saying they're being developed - "11th april - finalised stats for death star" would rather give away that there's going to be a death star (no, there isn't, really, at least, if there is noone's told me). as for the current round... i've no idea what's going on there as i'm not playing it. anything worth reporting?

-mist

Talking of deathstars thats something which totally blows Qdeathstar whole argument about ideas suggested regularry round after round being wanted by the majority of the community and being the right thing to add.

You see if we applied that theory Qdeathstar we would have a Deathstar ship in PA that could be sent out and would totally wipe out a planet as this is something which used to come up round after round, suprisingly I dont think Ive seen the idea come up since r9 now BUT many people did suggest it and many people did post they liked the idea HOWEVER if anyone dares tell me that this is what the majority of players wanted or that because its been suggested over and over again it should be implemented I might just have to hunt you down and murder you for being so idiotic.

Things posted by users should not be automatically added to the game no matter how often they are suggested and they shouldnt be used for anything more than planting seeds of ideas, seeing what issues the game has that you might have missed ect because users do not know the full picture and thus cant really be relied on as anything more than a 'think tank'

[Legator]

Originally Posted by wakey

Things posted by users should not be automatically added to the game no matter how often they are suggested and they shouldnt be used for anything more than planting seeds of ideas, seeing what issues the game has that you might have missed ect because users do not know the full picture and thus cant really be relied on as anything more than a 'think tank'

i think we should add "players" into the universe, i bet many would suggest and like that

and it save the game :P

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Legator

i think we should add "players" into the universe, i bet many would suggest and like that

and it save the game :P

Yes more players would be good but implementing many of the ideas players come up with isnt going to do this especially when you start mix and matching them. You might get a flood of players back initially when they hear all the features but as soon as they have spent a week playing and realise just what a mess the game is they will quit again.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by wakey

Yes more players would be good but implementing many of the ideas players come up with isnt going to do this especially when you start mix and matching them. You might get a flood of players back initially when they hear all the features but as soon as they have spent a week playing and realise just what a mess the game is they will quit again.

one small thingie wakey, dont take everything to serious - you tend to read out more through simple lines than there are written hehe

[Qdeathstar]

Originally Posted by wakey

Things posted by users should not be automatically added to the game

wakey, i never said AUTOMATICALLY :-/. I said that a significant ponderance should be made. And in this particular discussion, we arent talking about game-play as much as we are the structure of the game, p2p, and things along those lines. We arnt talking about ships... ect.

I think that i didnt repeat all of my previous posts in the thread, along with that one at the same time, so therefore you werent able to understand.

The first problem the PA TEAM has in my view, (not including ones brought up in this thread and others) is that PA Team dis-regaurds anything it doesnt like, or anything that was deemed "not fesible" the first time it was discussed as "repetive". Aswell, PA Team works to pull apart suggestions, which is fine... But you shouldnt ONLY work to do that. Some suggests are good, some suggestions are bad. I dont think that if you polled people now, a DEATHSTAR ship would be something they would add, perhaps in rounds where there were many players, and distruction was fun.. but not now.

ect, ect, ect.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

The first problem the PA TEAM has in my view, (not including ones brought up in this thread and others) is that PA Team dis-regaurds anything it doesnt like, or anything that was deemed "not fesible" the first time it was discussed as "repetive".

disregards anything it doesn't like is blatantly untrue, although not knowing what's going to be in r11 - afaik the first round the pateam has had any input in to what goes in to the game - i'm not quite sure how you can make that judgement

disgregarding anything that's not feasable seems sensible to me...

don't quite understand what you mean about repetative, but if it's already been disgarded once and nothing relative to it has changed then disgarding things as "already discussed" seems fair to me.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Aswell, PA Team works to pull apart suggestions, which is fine... But you shouldnt ONLY work to do that.

i don't recall any of the pateam pulling anything apart... most people complian that they don't comment. guess they can't win :/

-mist

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

wakey, i never said AUTOMATICALLY :-/. I said that a significant ponderance should be made. And in this particular discussion, we arent talking about game-play as much as we are the structure of the game, p2p, and things along those lines. We arnt talking about ships... ect.

I think that i didnt repeat all of my previous posts in the thread, along with that one at the same time, so therefore you werent able to understand.

You did however imply on this thread that the players wants are the most important aspect and something repeated round after round is a feature that people want and the fact you think that the payeam should be doing what the players want then suggests you think anything the players like should be in the game.

And sorry MOST actions effect gameplay, saying things like "its about structure not gameplay" highlights the exact reason why players are not a group that should be used for anything more than ideas. The majority simple dont have a grasp on how their simple little change effects the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

The first problem the PA TEAM has in my view, (not including ones brought up in this thread and others) is that PA Team dis-regaurds anything it doesnt like, or anything that was deemed "not fesible" the first time it was discussed as "repetive". Aswell, PA Team works to pull apart suggestions, which is fine... But you shouldnt ONLY work to do that. Some suggests are good, some suggestions are bad. I dont think that if you polled people now, a DEATHSTAR ship would be something they would add, perhaps in rounds where there were many players, and distruction was fun.. but not now.

ect, ect, ect.

tbh I think your find PaTeam and the creators have a habit of implementing features they dont personally like simply because the community does, Take PAX, the beta was the game spinner wanted, PAX was a version of the game that the players wanted (well as close as they wanted without it being r9). They were two differnt games, spinners was one that with a few small tweaks would ahev no doubt played pretty well, the players one was a game that continued all the old PA problems in a package that didnt suit that kind of setup.

As for saying things deemed not feasable at first being passed off as repative, most of these repetaive ideas are ones which require a major change in either the game or external factors to become feasable. Take for example the whole idea of free accounts that are unrestricted, people keep suggesting this with the same idea of 'ads on the free accounts' but the ad market simply isnt back to a stage where this would be a viable method of supporting the game. Wuth 4 rounds of data showing that only 2% of players click banners, and the industry average only being 5% theres simply not enough people who will click banners to support the free acounts, about the only place paying out high enough to potentially be viable is google adsense but they are supposedly very strict on their payouts so anything that looks like mass clicking due to the players being told to would be a risk and relying on money you dont yet have and which could be withheld isnt a great way to do business because as has happened to PA in the past if the cash is them withheld it leaves the game in major trouble. Only way to counter this risk would be to charge paying customers more to cover the risk, but high prices will drive those even more disalussioned players to just play a free account rather than pay. AND NO forced ads arent viable, i've checked these out since you insisted they were viable and i'm sure PA have also and the payment fees are tiny. It wouldnt bring in anything close to the amount needed and the paid accounts wouldnt subsdise it as well as they do currently because any free account which isnt too badly restricted is simple more than enough for most of the smaller half of the game (in fact if it wasnt for the eta problem alot of the smaller players wouldnt ahve a need to upgrade, as the rest of the limitations are things they struggle to get past anyway)

Onto the deathstar idea, I think you would be surpised how many people would like such a feature, just look at the amount of people who still send kill fleets to small planets, its less common with the single targetting system but it does still happena fair bit and the only reason for doing so is to ahve the same effect as a deathstar ship and wipe out the target planet completely


And finally as mist said where do PATeam pull suggestions apart, they hardly post on the forums. The closest that comes is myself pulling the suggestions apart which as suggestions mod is kind of my job, i'm supposed to highlight problems so that you can go away and rethink your suggestion in the hope that you then come back with a better version. The only problem is often those posting the ideas havent put any thought into the idea in the first place and arent then willing to put any thought into how to fix the problem (ie this post is perfect example, theres very little justifcation for his views, some of them might be based on some view that no-ones expressed or thought of yet and they could click into place but as it is they seem like the half baked versions of the ideas we have seen over and over again which arent routed in any kind of reality and have no real understanding of how they fit in)

[Qdeathstar]

Originally Posted by wakey

You did however imply in this thread that the players wants are the most important aspect and something repeated round after round is a feature that people want and the fact you think that the payeam should be doing what the players want then suggests you think anything the players like should be in the game.

you arnt very good at comming up with conclusions.. I woudnt try it. I said very, very clearly gave three conditions for adding something to the game. Its not obviously an error (your deathstarship), Its been brought up repetivly (indicating its popularity/neccesity) and it has been brought up over periods of time (Indicating its not a problem that is going away).

Onto the deathstar idea, I think you would be surpised how many people would like such a feature, just look at the amount of people who still send kill fleets to small planets, its less common with the single targetting system but it does still happena fair bit and the only reason for doing so is to ahve the same effect as a deathstar ship and wipe out the target planet completely

Link to a suggestion thread? A recent one? Like in the past 2 months? Perhaps they would like it, but they arent dumb enough to actually suggest it.

tbh I think your find PaTeam and the creators have a habit of implementing features they dont personally like simply because the community does, Take PAX, the beta was the game spinner wanted, PAX was a version of the game that the players wanted (well as close as they wanted without it being r9). They were two differnt games, spinners was one that with a few small tweaks would ahev no doubt played pretty well, the players one was a game that continued all the old PA problems in a package that didnt suit that kind of setup

Thats probly because you had many 7331 players playing,.... if you had of kept round 9.5 and invited a relative number of players in all catagories, perhaps what was needed would be seen more clearly. IT doesnt really matter that they are noobs and no nothing about the game, thats who you are targeting, not the players who have been here ages and will most likely not leave no matter what.

[Qdeathstar]

Originally Posted by wakey

where do PATeam pull suggestions apart

eh... /me hides.

[Karmulian]

marking for further discussion - will reread and make a comment as approp

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Karmulian

marking for further discussion - will reread and make a comment as approp

please dont get it as wrong as mist got it....there was no sarcasm intented and im absolut serious bout it...and the not reading part wasnt related to the pateam...

i know its an old tavern tale already ("my" suggestions but i think thats sadly the way to go- including the good features of pax like ingame alliance)

[Qdeathstar]

Karm must have gotten back from vacation, hes put a lot of 1 liners in :-).

[Karmulian]

Legator i wouldn't
I know pateam have lacked at posting about the suggestions before, but its something i intend to correct
we do discuss them in private(at least i do) and i will take the time to go through the thread and pick out the key bits

[Qdeathstar]

+2 karmulian