Race groups

[Envious]

I already made this suggestion in another thread but as it is in AD i think most people won't notice it and i'd like the idea to be discussed. Apologies to anyone who might stumble over it twice.

Many people complain this round's stats are very unbalanced, Xans are too strong, Zik/Cath are too weak. Others defended the current stats. It's been stated several times that the weakness actually lies in the uneven distribution of races. Xan are mainly doing so very well because terran is the race picked by most players and their main threat Cath is badly under-represented, while Zik/Cath fleets would have an easier time attacking if targets had to deal with more Cr incomings overall, that is, more Zik/Cath in the universe. With the current round i guess everyone can see what will happen next round: many frustrated Zik/Cath players will choose Terran/Xan and ppl who have not played Zik/Cath before are even less likely to change to them.This is assuming the stats are unchanged or just slightly changed ofc.

Now ofc you can change the ship stats which will result in different weaknesses/strenghts of each race and probably also change the race distribution, but you'll never be able to predict the outcome. As long as the balance of the stats depends on roughly equal race numbers (and it will always do if you keep the scissors/stone principle as Sid put it so nicely) it can always result in a total messup.

Another way to go might be to actively try and get a more even race distribution. How to do that? An idea: Buddy groups are already in the game. If you ensure races are more or less equally distributed within each group, they will be roughly evenly distributed among active players. So, force a buddy group to choose 3 different races! Even better: change to a system with groups of 4.

Now i know this adds an element of force which most players won't like as probably not everyone will be able to play his inital pick. But maybe if you think of other games: A football team with 11 scorers won't win a match, a tema with 11 goalies won't either. So if you take a group of people and form a team not everyone will have a free choice of what position he plays. Also, you can always play the race you want, but you might be penalized by not having a buddy group, which will reduce your chances of having a (semi-)decent galaxy.

Speaking for myself: With the current universe i see choosing Cath as one of my main mistakes (right after not deciding to play early enough to get a decent buddy group), without a major stats change i won't pick them again. However, in a setup like i suggest i will gladly take the part of Cath in a buddy group.

edit:
Might happen that people who are willing to play the less "popular" races are more sought after, allowing them to choose a group from different alternatives (didn't you always want to be in the "HC galaxy"? ). That will be an additional incentive for races that are deemed as weaker now.

[Kal]

I like the idea, although i'll reserve final judgement until after wakey has poitned out the problems i allways miss

[Tactitus]

Perhaps this is too obvious, but wouldn't it be better just to have balanced ships stats that didn't require a balanced race distribution? Give each race comparable advantages and disadvantages versus all other races and then it won't really matter how many players sign up for each race.

If you need a balanced race distribution to have a balanced game, then you've artificially created yet another game precondition with its own set of difficulties to create and maintain (as if alliances didn't create enough imbalances). Furthermore, if the game requires a balanced race distribution to be fair then you have, in effect, created an incentive for players to unbalance it--for their own advantage.

[Cayl]

Forcing players to choose different races in buddy groups is like Forcing Xan to stop building Arrowheads until they've built up their Fireblades a bit.

Buddy groups who play balanced groups are more likely to do better than those who don't. Ask my friends who went Cat/Cat/Ter as opposed to say, Xan/Cat/Ter . That should be sufficient incentive.

This "solution" addresses the symptom of the problem, not the root of it, and will lead to a game balance to be sure, but perhaps not a more desireable game balance.

To me the real problem is that Cathaar can roid people very easily, but have no way to actually hold onfo their asteroids, as they can basically be podded for free by any planet of equal size or greater who's built a well balanced fleet. This makes them undesireable to players to play.

People talk about "game balance" as if every race should be taken by an equal number of people and every race should have 25% of its members in the top 100 by game end. I don't think this is easily achievable or desireable for the game. Zikonians are an artful race to play, and should be more challenging than a Terran, with their own rewards for mastery. Cathaar fill a role, just perhaps not a top 10 planet one.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Cayl

Forcing players to choose different races in buddy groups is like Forcing Xan to stop building Arrowheads until they've built up their Fireblades a bit.

That analogy is COMPLETELY different.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Cayl

Forcing players to choose different races in buddy groups is like Forcing Xan to stop building Arrowheads until they've built up their Fireblades a bit.

Buddy groups who play balanced groups are more likely to do better than those who don't. Ask my friends who went Cat/Cat/Ter as opposed to say, Xan/Cat/Ter . That should be sufficient incentive.

This "solution" addresses the symptom of the problem, not the root of it, and will lead to a game balance to be sure, but perhaps not a more desireable game balance.

To me the real problem is that Cathaar can roid people very easily, but have no way to actually hold onfo their asteroids, as they can basically be podded for free by any planet of equal size or greater who's built a well balanced fleet. This makes them undesireable to players to play.

People talk about "game balance" as if every race should be taken by an equal number of people and every race should have 25% of its members in the top 100 by game end. I don't think this is easily achievable or desireable for the game. Zikonians are an artful race to play, and should be more challenging than a Terran, with their own rewards for mastery. Cathaar fill a role, just perhaps not a top 10 planet one.

some good points if u ignore the first bit

maybe terran should be modifed so they are more like the terran of old, a basic race thats good for nothing but bad for nothing, and then design the other races for specialities in certain areas.

[TheBerk]

in response to the buddy thing, surely thats what people should have done anyway, me and my buddies did, we sat down and discussed what races we were going to be to try and get a mix.... we're not doing too bad for ourselves