[Declined] Scope

[Conall]

I was just thinking - one of the things that makes Havoc fun is massive fleets and massive battles. The regular round seems to drag as you struggle to build a few of this ship and a few of that one. Perhaps increasing the amount of resources produced either through mining or increasing how much resource an asteroid produces would make the game a bit more lively.

I know it will incresae the distance between the top players and the lower players, but who really cares, that would only force the bigger players to start hitting each other more often and a little guy that managed to get through would do very well on XP.

[Banned]

Fleets are only massive comperatively.

Battles are only massive if there's incentive to take big losses. Or in the case of havoc, lack of incentive against losing massive amounts of ships.

[Conall]

True, but isnt it more interesting to look at a BR with 4 million ships involved rather than 40,000. Plus it would give people the chance to recover more quickly and get back in the game.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Conall

True, but isnt it more interesting to look at a BR with 4 million ships involved rather than 40,000.

Not really.

Plus it would give people the chance to recover more quickly and get back in the game.

Recovery wouldn't really be quicker, as you'd have a harder time catching up.

[Alessio]

em technicly.. I doubt it matters if u get 1000 metal roid/tick or 1 metal per roid/tick
the numbers would change but the percentages in comparison to other peeps their fleets wouldn't..

(I could be wrong tho bcz its late)

so it would be purely for the show?

[Conall]

If fleet cost remained the same it does make a difference. If a roid produced 2500 per tick vs 250 per tick then you could build 10x as much fleet in the same time span.

[jerome]

Xp won't have as much of an effect as the xp score boosts will remain the same but values will be much higher.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Conall

If fleet cost remained the same it does make a difference. If a roid produced 2500 per tick vs 250 per tick then you could build 10x as much fleet in the same time span.

This would also compound the exponential growth problem.

[barney]

Originally Posted by Conall

If fleet cost remained the same it does make a difference. If a roid produced 2500 per tick vs 250 per tick then you could build 10x as much fleet in the same time span.

yea but if you had 10* the fleet chances are the guy defending against you and his allies have 10* the fleet basicly all you are arguing for is to add a 0 after every number on the battle report?

imagine i have to sacrifice x number of shippies for roids if the changes you suggested are put in place i have to sacrifice 10x shippies for roids. but also i realise that it has made no difference to my life because i earn 10* more resources per tick so can afford to loose 10* more shippies?

which while it makes no real difference to me either way, is pointless.

[Conall]

Changes have ripple effects. Yes, there would be exponential growth, forcing the larger planets, that now have few small targets, to attack each other more. Less chances of blocking and fence sitting. It would increase the distance between the larger and small planets reducing the number of incoming they have and giving them more opportunities to grow. I can see other effects such as impact on Engineering strategies and construction strategies as well. It would make cov oping for res more profitable, etc.

_ryzekiel_ is right about the XP, but perhaps that could be changed as well instead of capping at x20 it could be x40.

[Appocomaster]

Conall the problem with exponential growth is it accelerates the end of the round. One alliance wins in the first month, then sits and plays god for the remaining 2 months and everyone else quits playing...

[Conall]

Well, what if the roids had a deminishing return. The first roid of each type generated 2500 res the next 2499 and so on. As the round progressed larger planets would produce less per roid even as they hit the 8K limit. Would swing things to a more even balance throughout the universe.

[Appocomaster]

That was how it was done before, I think that the PA Team decided that having roids give 250 resource each made things simplier. but after the first 100-200 roids, seeing roid income per tick drop would keep people together longer - as long as xp was tweaked, which it needs to be, especially if roids produce less again.

[Conall]

Wow - I had forgotten that is how the old system worked. Getting too old and was gone too long to remeber all those details.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

That was how it was done before,

Not quite. When you had one roid, each roid gave 350. When you had two each roid gave 349. With three each gave you 349. Essentially you subtracted the number of roids you already had from 350 to determine how much more the next roid would give: When you had 50, the next roid gave you 300 more resources. Until the minimum of 250 for each roid.

It was removed because it was pointless and crap.

Having each roid produce different, such as 2500 for the first, 2499 for the second (giving 4999 total) and having a minimum of around 100 might be workable. Might make it possible to HCT beyond 8k without unbalancing things tbh.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Banned

Not quite. When you had one roid, each roid gave 350. When you had two each roid gave 349. With three each gave you 349.

I knew it was something like that :/ I got confused because we have 250 now.

Originally Posted by Banned

It was removed because it was pointless and crap.

I thought it was cos it made it more simple for new players.
I'd like it back. I guess if we're gonna multiply everything by 10 just so we can do a 2500 2499 etc thing .... sorta silly just for that but if there's no other way (apart from introducing an actual decimal point or something...)

[Orion Treet]

Would change nothing, only more recourses, larger fleets and more score for everyone, so everything stayes the same, just in larger numbers. Bit useless imo, would just take more server power.

[Conall]

Wow - I can think of several ways I would change my game play. And things that I would to change as well.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Orion Treet

Would change nothing, only more recourses, larger fleets and more score for everyone, so everything stayes the same, just in larger numbers. Bit useless imo, would just take more server power.

no, the point is you'd gradually have less efficient roids. At the moment, the same idea would be having roids producing say 350 resources, then 349.9, 349.8, etc as you got more roids. Doing a 350 to 250 for your first 100 roids isn't great as after the first 100 roids there's no loss, whereas it's gradual if you have bigger numbers, and lasts for longer. unless the first say 10-20 roids do 350, then the next 10/20 do 349, and so on. that'd last for 1000 roids. Or you could do this once you get to 1000 roids, so that's everyone between 1000 and 2000 roids who starts to loose efficiency (1000 and 3000 if you're using blocks of 20 roids instead of blocks of 10)

[Gerbie]

How about something like Production = roids*250*1000/(1000+roids)

roids production prod/roid
1 249 (249)
10 2,475 (247)
100 22,727 (227)
1000 125,000 (125)
10000 227,272 (22)

[Appocomaster]

doesnt sound too bad. slightly harsh when you get big roids, but oh well or maybe # of roids /2 ?

[mist]

i prefer it where the old roids keep doing the same amount, ie you get 500 for the first, 499 for the second etc down to a minimum per roid. it's not particularly hard to calculate, but means that getting new roids is more worthwhile. either that or there needs to be some maximum that the number of roid divider can get to. under your current suggstion your 8000th roid gets you 3 resources per tick. noone in their right mind is going to attack for that (they may attack, but not to increase their roid count)

[Kal]

one thing that changed with round 12 stats as opposed to round 11 stats is that ships became cheaper leading to more fun big battles.

[mist]

how does ships being cheaper lead to more fun battles? the destruction is exactly the same...

-mist

[Kal]

apparently people just like big numbers - don't ask me why

[Kal]

increasing resources from roids would cause increased exponential growth problems - same with mining - declined