[Declined] Structure Kill = XP

[LordBrem]

Killing structures should give a decent amount of xp (perhaps 10x the amount per roid, as they have 10x the hp?).

[Kal]

structure killing currently gains no XP, but I agree it should, but it may not be that easy withotu recoding a lot of the combat engine.

[LordBrem]

Could they just make structures = 10 roids or something in the combat engine for xp purposes?

[The Real Arfy]

Kal: it should be easy. You already have the number of structures killed, and the defenders and attacker's values. Ofc, there would have to be a simple bit of code present to stop everyone splitting the XP gained if they sent no structure killers, but it is feasible i am sure, and within the time limit you have for next round, however little time spinner has...

[Kal]

the problem is when there are multiple attackers - it does not record the number of things killed by each individual fleet

[mist]

would this not just mean more people send structure killers with their fleets, bashing people have their size back in to the stoneage on a regular basis?

-mist

[Kal]

yes, so we would have to change targetting a litlle or lower damage or something

[Cochese]

And/or give salvage for destroyed constructions.

They get expensive.

[Kal]

This is on my round 13 list which means it will be considered by Spinner and PATeam

[Gerbie]

Giving XP for destroying structures would have a bad effect. Killing a new player's structures is now useless. If you give XP for it this will promote noob bashing.

[noah02]

Oh and i thought I was getting XP for my structure Killers.
Ah well will stop building them then

[Forest]

I agree with Gerbie. XP for structure killing will promote bashing of smaller players.

Structure killers do have a place, and that is in war, with other alliances, not encouraging every noob to be bashed.

[LordBrem]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

Giving XP for destroying structures would have a bad effect. Killing a new player's structures is now useless. If you give XP for it this will promote noob bashing.

Not really. It would be based on the same formula as roids. Killing a tiny player's structs would get little to no XP. Killing those of a large player would get a lot of XP.

Do you attack tiny little planets to get roids? Should we then take away XP for roids? This is a logical progression; when you get roids, you often kill structs. They should give you more XP. Or in the case where someone covers your pods but still loses structs - you should get XP for that.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

Giving XP for destroying structures would have a bad effect. Killing a new player's structures is now useless. If you give XP for it this will promote noob bashing.

New players will have lower value (thus giving less XP) and fewer structures (thus giving less XP). I don't see where the problem is. It will however make it more profitable to bash big players. And big players are wussies, some of them quit after being hit a fraction of the times a n00b is hit.

So we should avoid giving XP to prevent big players from quitting.

[Jebu]

Structure killers need to be less effective. It really doesnt make sence that someone with 50 constructions can lose 120 hours of construction in a single attack. It also is horribly unbalanced that some structure killers are viable (Zik - great fodder), while others arnt (Xan - FR fleet is hard to use, and Vorceron are terribly ineffective). Theres no need to make the overpowered structure killers even more useful by giving a large exp bonus.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

Not really. It would be based on the same formula as roids. Killing a tiny player's structs would get little to no XP. Killing those of a large player would get a lot of XP.

Do you attack tiny little planets to get roids? Should we then take away XP for roids? This is a logical progression; when you get roids, you often kill structs. They should give you more XP. Or in the case where someone covers your pods but still loses structs - you should get XP for that.

When people attack small people, itrs fore asy roids, that will giev resources longterm, and xp doesnt make much a difference. The gain is roids.

When ppl attack other people, with structuire killers, instead of it being for a long term gain (except on special missions against plp with amps etc), its normally for a LOL effect, and gives the attacking planet no gain.

As soon as u add xp, it does give a gain, and ppl will start bashing noobs all oevr the place.

As it is, structure killers do ahve a place, but should be of a type that plp dont atatck with often (for instance, its rare for zik to attack with cr in fleet, so they should effectively make structure killers cr).

[LordBrem]

Originally Posted by Jebu

Structure killers need to be less effective. It really doesnt make sence that someone with 50 constructions can lose 120 hours of construction in a single attack. It also is horribly unbalanced that some structure killers are viable (Zik - great fodder), while others arnt (Xan - FR fleet is hard to use, and Vorceron are terribly ineffective). Theres no need to make the overpowered structure killers even more useful by giving a large exp bonus.

Xan FR are quite powerful, try them sometime.

There is a reason the struct killers max at 20%, it is fine as it is now. You should be able to take down a chunk of someone's stuff in one hit - just be happy you can't lose ALL your stuff.

[LordBrem]

Originally Posted by Forest

When people attack small people, itrs fore asy roids, that will giev resources longterm, and xp doesnt make much a difference. The gain is roids.

When ppl attack other people, with structuire killers, instead of it being for a long term gain (except on special missions against plp with amps etc), its normally for a LOL effect, and gives the attacking planet no gain.

As soon as u add xp, it does give a gain, and ppl will start bashing noobs all oevr the place.

As it is, structure killers do ahve a place, but should be of a type that plp dont atatck with often (for instance, its rare for zik to attack with cr in fleet, so they should effectively make structure killers cr).

First of all, no one is attacking tiny n00bs here. Bash limit is 40% of value.

Secondly, the point is that bashing n00bs will NOT give XP. You said this yourself: "When people attack small people, itrs fore asy roids, that will giev resources longterm, and xp doesnt make much a difference. The gain is roids."

As the structure killing will be the SAME formula, perhaps one struct = 10 roids, if you cap 100 roids and kill 10 structs, you simply get 2x the XP. And as you just said, you get negligible XP in the first place. What's 2x very little? A little bit more.

It WILL add incentives for bashing the structures of top players. Which is, imo, a good thing.

[Static]

Originally Posted by Forest

As it is, structure killers do ahve a place, but should be of a type that plp dont atatck with often (for instance, its rare for zik to attack with cr in fleet, so they should effectively make structure killers cr).

I agree that making the Structure killer ships a different class as the roid fleet of that race makes sense. It would promote Allies to work together on attacks in alliance attacks. Example: have the zik Galleon be a crusier class so teaming with a Cat allies crusier roid fleet would get through easier then sending with the zik's own fleet.

Another idea would be to put Structure killer ships as a seperate research item after Siege ships or after Advanced Infrastructure research.

If XP is added then the price for Structure ships have got to be raised. IMO I think they are way to low as it is. They need to be around 40% higher. If you want to go after someone's structures it shouldn't be a cheap process for the attacker. I lost 27 structures in 2 ticks in a 3 hour span which is just unreasonable. Adding XP to structure killers will make this a normal occurance for everyone and people not so dedicated will stop playing or at least stop being as active as they were. Why would they when they just lost around 216 hours of construction in 3 hours.

Needs to be harder to kill structures before we start promoting it.

[LordBrem]

Some of the struct killing ships are clearly overpowered, but right now they are glorified flack. If you made them much weaker and took away the bash cap, or made it 50%, that might work.

[Static]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

Some of the struct killing ships are clearly overpowered, but right now they are glorified flack. If you made them much weaker and took away the bash cap, or made it 50%, that might work.

Making them weaker would work to. Much weaker as in their armor value. If you lowered there armor alot people wouldn't use them as flak that much. So a -70% on their armor stat and maybe an extra 20% for its attack and 25% increase in price.

In most space conquest turn-based games ships that would attack the planet wouldn't be able to take out buildings unless all the defenses were taken care of first. So maybe making the order of ships destroyed different. Still keep the current init values but make them target the structure killers first or at least a higher percentage then the rest of the fleet of the same class. If I was a leader of a defending space fleet I certainly would order my fleet to attack all structure killer ships first to protect my planet and my people. If you think about other games like Freespace2, X-Wing or Wing Commander type games you always go after the bombers before you worry about the anti ship stuff. Maybe make all fighter class's able to attack structure killers regardless of class. Of course they wouldn't do full damage on them. Figuring out the stats would be kinda hard tho, and a Xan would have an avantage defending against them since they build tons of fighters as it is so maybe making it corv's for Xan. Or make it only the Vsharrk fighters. Diffently not a round 13 item

[Banned]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

Some of the struct killing ships are clearly overpowered, but right now they are glorified flack. If you made them much weaker and took away the bash cap, or made it 50%, that might work.

No. Structure killing is broken. Increasing the power of structure targetting ships would be insane.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

First of all, no one is attacking tiny n00bs here. Bash limit is 40% of value.

Secondly, the point is that bashing n00bs will NOT give XP. You said this yourself: "When people attack small people, itrs fore asy roids, that will giev resources longterm, and xp doesnt make much a difference. The gain is roids."

As the structure killing will be the SAME formula, perhaps one struct = 10 roids, if you cap 100 roids and kill 10 structs, you simply get 2x the XP. And as you just said, you get negligible XP in the first place. What's 2x very little? A little bit more.

It WILL add incentives for bashing the structures of top players. Which is, imo, a good thing.

1) You do get noobs who attack ppl right on the 40% bash limit, u can find them in such alliances such as Vision.

2) Even negligable xp will ake those ppl hitting on the bash limit, hit with structures for xp, nm how little.

3) There is no incentive needed to bash a top player with structures, everyone attacking top players tries it alerady.

[LordBrem]

Originally Posted by Forest

1) You do get noobs who attack ppl right on the 40% bash limit, u can find them in such alliances such as Vision.

2) Even negligable xp will ake those ppl hitting on the bash limit, hit with structures for xp, nm how little.

3) There is no incentive needed to bash a top player with structures, everyone attacking top players tries it alerady.

With what reward? I've bashed structs on the #1 player, but got nothing for it.

If it's 40%, and struct killers don't have quite as much armor, you should be able to def it. Is it a problem people attack at 40% for roids?

[Eol]

Originally Posted by Forest

1) You do get noobs who attack ppl right on the 40% bash limit, u can find them in such alliances such as Vision.

All alliances, actually. I don't get the jab here on PS Forum, if you want to troll AD just troll on AD.

[Eol]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

With what reward? I've bashed structs on the #1 player, but got nothing for it.

If it's 40%, and struct killers don't have quite as much armor, you should be able to def it. Is it a problem people attack at 40% for roids?

I suggest the following remedy for your lack of vision: Delete your comparatively large planet. Sign up for a new planet - if it doesn't get randomed into a moderately shit galaxy, delete it and sign up new planets untill you do get into a moderately shit galaxy. And make a LiveJournal acct or something so we can all gleefully watch as your world-view changes.

To answer your question: It's a problem for the people who get attacked all the bleeding time that large knobheads attack at 40% for roids, usually bring their structure killers and usually come back for more.

[agincourt]

Static I agree with you on your point about structure killers should have their own research, and maybe a seperate factory too. I think the current system is flawed but i don't see making it worse as a viable alternative. Personally I only send fleet killers on alliance raids, I have no desire to run noobs away from the game. From what I've read on the forums there are a lot less players now then there used to be (even factoring in the multis) and that is not a good sign. Anything that might make it harder on noobs is NOT OK with me.

[cypher]

i don't understand what the commotion is about with nubbashing... i mean ffs. the limit is 40% how high do you wanna put it? if i attack top 50 players i'm nubbashing?

if people are inactive enough or whatever they get attacked, it's the game, you can't do much about it. there are MORE then enough (if not too many) things implemented already to stop nubbashing. people should get over it for once

[Pinkerton]

I haven't read the whole thread but. I DISAGREE about points for structure killing.

First, it is simply evil...fun, but evil.

It is a tactic to help beat an opposing alliance. Giving points for structure killing would encourage it in mass. It is good for reducing your opponents score which is good for competition. Destroying structures just for points could get really ugly.

[ iwent back and read it all...still think no points for stucture killig]

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Static

If you think about other games like Freespace2, X-Wing or Wing Commander type games you always go after the bombers before you worry about the anti ship stuff.

You do? Wouldn't it be reasonable to kill the ships that threaten your fighting fleet first, so you can handle the bombers afterwards without having to care about whats happening behind your back?

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Envious

You do? Wouldn't it be reasonable to kill the ships that threaten your fighting fleet first, so you can handle the bombers afterwards without having to care about whats happening behind your back?

depends what their bombers are going to do to your capital ships - theory is you are skilled enough to dodge fighter fire while u protect the capital ships

[Kal]

anyway xp for strcutre killing would been lots of bashing, so its a bad idea