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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 14:49   #1
AdmV0rl0n
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Rules!

Dear Planetarion team, gamers, players, inactives, everyone else,

I am about to upset some of you. But before you get fruity, read this all and take it easy. It is after all only a suggestion, or three.

The current rules need looking at.

The EULA should be amended to cover some basic points. It should have a section that replaces the long winding crud about in game stuff, and states simply that breaking rules may or will get your account closed.
The sections in the EULA that are very open ended have to be closed.

There should be a RULE BOOK, that resides in the Manual.

MultiHunters, You should work on a set of rules that in plain English state what you will or perhaps will not allow. This should be in plain, straight talking, easy to read format. Place this in the manual. Then work off it. I don't want to hear any arbitrary crud from you guys about this. If you can look at two planets and se something you don't like, then you should be able to state what it is care of the rules in easy to read and understand language. The open ended EULA is not good enough.

Further, Planetarion should consider something.

1. Over the years, many suggestions come to be, after first being stated as not being wanted or of value. You can add things to the list as you please, but we can look at the game today with Alliances, Scanners, Races, all at one time or other considered unwanted, unworkable, add your choice of words.

2. The game requires a lot of PA team. This includes Multi Hunters. Support, The Portal guys, and so on.

3. Once you have the rules, consideration should be made care of in game coding to replace 'rules'. Year on year, PA should be a game where there are less rules, and in game people can only actually do legal things.

4. A theory of code it out of the game, OR make the thing legal should be carefully considered. You have done so in the past with alliances and scanners and other facets, you should continue down this road.

Lastly, and this willl have people calling for my blood, but none the less I will say it.

5. Multiple accounts, and Farming should be looked at from a clean blank piece of paper. Like scanners or alliances, some thought should take place on wether:-

Farming could be done legally.
People could have more accounts, if done in a certain way.
People from work or family could play together, without having MultiHunters going mad about it.

Further, if changes took place in this regard, it is possible that a reduced workload on PAteam could be the outcome, and a simpler, cleaner game for the player.

(Its a game, and as a strategy game, if it can be done in game, it should be allowed. If you want to stop it being done, code it out of the game, OR IN BETWEEN, state it clearly in the rules.)

Flame on..
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 15:01   #2
susan simmonds
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Re: Rules!

Well done AdmV0rl0n..


Your thread is clear and exact on details that cause chaos in the day to day running of Planetarion.

We have had some silly closures of planets due to "unclear rules".

PA Team may i suggest that a full review of the "rules" be read and as AdmV0rl0n stated revised and put down i plain english.

Scorpion
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 15:08   #3
Phil^
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Re: Rules!

if you are going to make major modifications to the eula, why not go the whole hog and make it simply a list of ingame actions which are only permitted instead of a list of those that are not.
its like in martial arts competitions, or board games like chess - there are a list of permitted moves instead of a list of those which are not permitted. You can work within that framework of rules and ultimately the game is fair as a result of having those rules

i would be opposed to allowing farming and multi-ing into the game, personally. One planet per person per round, not as many as someone can manage is the way the game should remain in my view.
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 15:25   #4
AdmV0rl0n
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Re: Rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
if you are going to make major modifications to the eula, why not go the whole hog and make it simply a list of ingame actions which are only permitted instead of a list of those that are not.
its like in martial arts competitions, or board games like chess - there are a list of permitted moves instead of a list of those which are not permitted. You can work within that framework of rules and ultimately the game is fair as a result of having those rules

i would be opposed to allowing farming and multi-ing into the game, personally. One planet per person per round, not as many as someone can manage is the way the game should remain in my view.
In a computer game of chess, you cannot make an illegal move.
That being said, the EULA should cover things like the legal aspect, racism, pornography, you know, the wide array of legalise required. All the rules stuff should be stripped out barring one sentence or paragraph, that being that players must abide by the rules, and stating what penalties apply.

The actual rules themselves - where not coded in or out of the game, should be stated in clear, concise, easily digested English. You could as you say, explicitly build a list of things you are allowed to do in game.
(But I think if you can do it in game, it should be either allowed, modified, or coded out of the game long term.)

As for farming, I totally accept your viewpoint, I know it to be honest and heartfelt when you say it.

My own view is different, but people should happily suggest changes, some work, some do not. In terms of the Multihunter teams, if PA was ever to get popular, could the current MH setup actually survive, say 200k of players? Is it scalable, and sensible in its current state?
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 18:13   #5
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Re: Rules!

For the love of God, stop comparing Planetarion to chess. The two are nothing alike.

That said, my take on this is that everything that's currently possible ingame should be allowed, period. Note how this is different from "adding more ingame limitations as time passes". People will always find ways around current rules, and turning it around (defining what is allowed, rather than defining what is not) effectively reduces the creativity (and intelligence) needed to win to near-zero. Any retarded monkey can churn out a tried-and-true method for the umpteenth time in order to win.

Furthermore, rules about 'support' planets, OOAOOG defence, donating, farming, et cetera, are just detrimental to the overall enjoyment people get out of the game, because whenever they do something that is technically defined as illegal by the EULA (e.g. everything) they have to be afraid of getting closed. Additionally, these days smooth talking can get one out of a lot of trouble, whereas less people less capable of using the EULA against itself find themselves closed for minor event (see arc/bintara).

Ideally, there would be no need for multihunters at all.

P.S. Why was there a new topic needed for this? "It is always better to post in an existing thread than to start a new one"
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 5 Jun 2007 at 18:19.
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 19:51   #6
AdmV0rl0n
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Talking Re: Rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
For the love of God, stop comparing Planetarion to chess. The two are nothing alike.

That said, my take on this is that everything that's currently possible ingame should be allowed, period. Note how this is different from "adding more ingame limitations as time passes". People will always find ways around current rules, and turning it around (defining what is allowed, rather than defining what is not) effectively reduces the creativity (and intelligence) needed to win to near-zero. Any retarded monkey can churn out a tried-and-true method for the umpteenth time in order to win.

Furthermore, rules about 'support' planets, OOAOOG defence, donating, farming, et cetera, are just detrimental to the overall enjoyment people get out of the game, because whenever they do something that is technically defined as illegal by the EULA (e.g. everything) they have to be afraid of getting closed. Additionally, these days smooth talking can get one out of a lot of trouble, whereas less people less capable of using the EULA against itself find themselves closed for minor event (see arc/bintara).

Ideally, there would be no need for multihunters at all.

P.S. Why was there a new topic needed for this? "It is always better to post in an existing thread than to start a new one"
Chess and Planetarion have some basic points that are the same. A game of strategy, and a set of tools and options one can make. Some people have cited that the game cannot be coded in a way that rules out making illegal moves. If you were to apply that to Chess, we know most chess programs understand what is or is not allowed. But off course, there are viable and clear differences too.

I happen to like you, think that if you can do something in game, it should be allowed. And if something is there, then PA team should look at ways of limiting or blocking that activity.

In terms of Farming, I do understand why people don't like the idea. However, previously, in the Planetarion universe, people have disliked many things. Alliances, Races, Scanners.

Now, PAteam have over time added these into the game. And overall, each of these facets has _ultimately_ added to the game. People have left, people have said they do not like changes, but the game continues down the road of becoming a more complex game.

That sadly has led to a growth in the aspect of the EULA being used to try and curb 'behaviour'. But the game should encourage every player, every alliance into trying to ideas, new methods, new strategy, new planning and execution.

In terms of diplomacy and deal making, I believe two real players, who have single accounts should be allowed to make ANY deal they wish. That should be part of the game.

(And indeed, how is this different from Alliances or Galaxies suddenly dumping large res into one persons planet?)

I suggested a clear concise rules clean up, But beyond that, a real reconsideration for what is not legal. Make less things illegal, focus on the things you really really do not want (Multi-Accounts), but outside, allow people to explore and find ways, good or bad to play the game and find an advantage.

As for making new threads, long winded threads where people hurl abuse at each other loses the thread of discussion. So shoot me, I started a new thread.
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 20:05   #7
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Rules!

Then we are in total agreement. Now if only more discussions had that result
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Unread 5 Jun 2007, 22:16   #8
AdmV0rl0n
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Re: Rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Chess and Planetarion have some basic points that are the same. A game of strategy, and a set of tools and options one can make. Some people have cited that the game cannot be coded in a way that rules out making illegal moves. If you were to apply that to Chess, we know most chess programs understand what is or is not allowed. But off course, there are viable and clear differences too.

I happen to like you, think that if you can do something in game, it should be allowed. And if something is there, then PA team should look at ways of limiting or blocking that activity.

In terms of Farming, I do understand why people don't like the idea. However, previously, in the Planetarion universe, people have disliked many things. Alliances, Races, Scanners.

Now, PAteam have over time added these into the game. And overall, each of these facets has _ultimately_ added to the game. People have left, people have said they do not like changes, but the game continues down the road of becoming a more complex game.

That sadly has led to a growth in the aspect of the EULA being used to try and curb 'behaviour'. But the game should encourage every player, every alliance into trying to ideas, new methods, new strategy, new planning and execution.

In terms of diplomacy and deal making, I believe two real players, who have single accounts should be allowed to make ANY deal they wish. That should be part of the game.

(And indeed, how is this different from Alliances or Galaxies suddenly dumping large res into one persons planet?)

I suggested a clear concise rules clean up, But beyond that, a real reconsideration for what is not legal. Make less things illegal, focus on the things you really really do not want (Multi-Accounts), but outside, allow people to explore and find ways, good or bad to play the game and find an advantage.

As for making new threads, long winded threads where people hurl abuse at each other loses the thread of discussion. So shoot me, I started a new thread.
--------------------

An early out line. Sections of 18 are listed from EULA.
Sections under 'Rules' are suggestions for Rulesin manual replacing parts of the EULA.

18. Cheating
This section presents the rules for playing the actual Game.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Replace in EULA with
Rules of the game have to be adhered to by all players. See the rules section of the manual.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


18.1. Farming:
Farming is illegal. The definitions of farming are, but are not limited to:
(a) Attacking a target with his/her consent to get his/her asteroids/ships
(b) Defending against someone who is attacking with their consent to steal
their ships.
(c) Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)
(d) Doing either a, b or c by using multi-planets

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rules

1. Farming is an activity laid out below. It is regarded as Illegal. And will be treated as such.
We reserve the right to both monitor and deal with players breaching the rules.
Farming examples.
(a) Attacking a planet, in collusion with the owner, to gain benefit, in roids, ships, other benefits.
(b) Defending in collusion with an attacker to get material gain in ships, or salvage, or other benefit.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18.2. Multiple Accounts / Account Sharing / Support Accounts:
Multi-ing, Account Sharing and Support Accounts are not allowed. The
definitions are, but are not limited to:
(a) A multi is a player who owns more than 1 planet.
(b) If you create another Account and intend to still play the original
Account, you are a multi.
(c) If you create another Account and use the old Account as a farm, you are
a multi and a farmer.
(d) If there is more than one user actively playing Planetarion from your IP
address, for example a friend or relative, this is fine. However, you must
register for an exception to be placed on your account to avoid being closed
This exception will limit the interaction that can take place between the
accounts and can be applied for on the preferences page in-game once signup
has been completed.
(e) Account sharing is when one player has control over more than one
Account during one round (i.e. has control over an Account that is not
theirs). This control could be via password sharing or via any form of
Trojan or Trojan like program.
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules

2. Multiple accounts are illegal. Sharing your account with someone else is Illegal. Opening secondary accounts to support individual planets, players, galaxies, or alliances is Illegal.
Exceptions:-
If there is more than one user actively playing Planetarion from your IP
address, for example a friend or relative, this is fine. However, you must
register for an exception to be placed on your account to avoid being closed
This exception will limit the interaction that can take place between the
accounts and can be applied for on the preferences page in-game once signup
has been completed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


18.3. Bots
Bots are not permitted to be used to access the game. Bot use is defined as,
but not limited to:
(a) Using browser plug-ins that would make it easier for you to play the
game
(b) Accessing the pages with another program (for example to check if you
are under attack) ¿ see section 8.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules

3. Bots are not allowed.
This includes but is not exclusive to:-
(a) Using browser plug-ins that would make it easier for you to play the
game
(b) Accessing the pages with another program (for example to check if you
are under attack) ¿ see section 8.
(c) You are also not allowed to have scripts in in-game system which will
gain you an advantage in the game, or disrupt any computer systems other
than your own.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18.4. Abuse
The definitions of abuse are, but are not limited to:
(a) Abuse is considered as anything offensive to another player or to an
admin.
(b) Abusive messages that are sent during the "heat of the moment" are still
not allowed.
(c) "The other player started it" is not an excuse.
(d) Spam messages sent using the in game message system will be regarded as abuse
(e) Depending on the circumstance, abuse will result in a warning or in
Account closure.
(f) If you are the target of abuse in the in game mail system, please do not
delete this mail. It should be reported using the Report to Admin¿ button
found at the bottom of each message.

-----------------------------------------------------

The abuse section ABOVE should remain in the EULA.

-------------------------------------------------------


18.5. Offensive galaxy pictures and/or galaxy/planet/ruler names
Planetarion is a game for players of all ages. Consideration should be given
to our younger players when registering galaxy/planet/ruler names and
posting galaxy pictures.
(a) Naked/semi-naked galaxy pictures are not allowed and will be removed at
an Admin's discretion.
(b) Racism and use of words and/or pictures likely to cause offence to
anybody in galaxy pictures and/or a galaxy/planet/ruler name is not allowed.
(c) You are also not allowed to have scripts in in-game system which will
gain you an advantage in the game, or disrupt any computer systems other
than your own.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The above section should remain in the EULA.

--------------------------------------------------------------


18.6. Miscellaneous cheating
(a) Attempts to encourage other planets to break the rules will be considered
a breach of this agreement
(b) The transfer of accounts to other users is not permitted. Passing on your
login details to another user is not permitted, even if they are subsequently
the only user to access your account.
(c) As newer methods of cheating are discovered, you authorise us to interpret
all data logged about your account towards detecting these methods. Actions which
are deemed to be cheating are not restricted to the list given on this
EULA and may be added to at any time, and you authorise us to do so

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RULES

4.
a) Players should not attempt to encourage other players to break the rules. Doing so will be regarded as an illegal act.
b) You are not allowed to transfer your account to anyone else.
c) You are not allowed to allow anyone else to access your account.

The (c) section in 18.6 should be in the EULA.

5.
Where new in game activity is discovered, and regarded as cheating, we reserve the right to add it to the rules section at short notice.
Players will be notified of new rule amendments by a generic in game mail from PAteam. Once announced and added, the act that has been discovered will become illegal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
(b) Any such actions will result in a warning or closure (1) of your Account
depending on the case.
(c) If your Account is closed you will be sent an automated message briefly
stating the reason for the closure. If you wish to appeal against the
closure contact the multihunter team in #multihunters. Upon completion of
this appeal the decision to close the Account will be reviewed and one of a
number of actions may result including but not limited to re-opening,
deletion or other various punitive measures (2).
(d) Accounts are automatically deleted and will be unrecoverable after 10
days of closure.
(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to
punish you, he/she just needs to have significant evidence to convince a
normal person that an offence has been committed ¿ evidence is deemed to be
anything logged by the Planetarion game server ¿ IRC logs cannot be used as
evidence, but can be used to add context to a case.

(1) Account closure means it will not be possible to log into the account,
fleets and covert operations cannot be directed at a closed Account. Upon
closing all outgoing fleets will be automatically recalled, closed Accounts
keep ticking (gaining resources, auto adjusting stealth/alert levels, etc)
with the rest of the universe.
(2) Various punitive measures imply that the punishment is completely at the
discretion of the Admins, it can vary from small score/ship/asteroid losses
to full account closures depending on the situation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules
6
Consequences of cheating exist in the EULA under the
Consequences of actions which are not allowed heading.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18.8. Evidence of Cheating
(a) Use of proxies and anonymizers.
(b) All interaction between accounts in the presence of other evidence
(c) More than one account using the same IP
(d) Any logged Account behaviour which appears to demonstrate a form of
farming.
(e) Shared registration information or preferences options from accounts in
the presence of other evidence.
(f) False signup information will result in immediate closure.
(g) IRC logs can be used as evidence if they are supported by other evidence
(h) Potential evidence of cheating does not always mean your Account will be
closed, if you feel you are doing something which may be regarded as
cheating which is not covered by the in-game exceptions system on the preferences
page, please register to be considered for an exception by emailing
[email protected].

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules
7

Items that are regarded as evidence of potential cheating, or illegal acts:-
(a) Use of proxies and anonymizers.
(b) All interaction between accounts in the presence of other evidence
(c) More than one account using the same IP
(d) Any logged Account behaviour which appears to demonstrate a form of
farming.
(e) Shared registration information or preferences options from accounts in
the presence of other evidence.
(f) False signup information will result in immediate closure.
(g) IRC logs can be used as evidence if they are supported by other evidence
(h) Potential evidence of cheating does not always mean your Account will be
closed, if you feel you are doing something which may be regarded as
cheating which is not covered by the in-game exceptions system on the preferences
page, please register to be considered for an exception by emailing
[email protected].


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

19. Inactivity
Planetarion is a real-time game that demands a certain amount of
participation. If your Account is not used in 7 days, it will be
automatically deleted. This can be avoided by upgrading to a paid Account.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules
8
Planetarion is a real-time game that demands a certain amount of
participation. If your Account is not used in 7 days, it will be
automatically deleted. This can be avoided by upgrading to a paid Account.
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