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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 16:09   #1
Justafox
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To save planetarion + Mobile application

Okay, planetarion has been saved... great! Since pete asked for our opinions but never gave any platform or adress whereto send those opinions i will write them down here. Im a simple guy with a simple opinion..

In order to grow to the number of players back in the old days the game must be:

- Completely free (nowadays you got enough options with advertising or whatever)
You can always charge people for not showing advertisements but they should not get any in-game bonusses.

- Personally i think the lay-out and interface has got to be improved. Its kinda chaotic now.
- Stick to the current concept, dont change to much ... just improve!

Those are the most important things i think....
greetz

Edit: Oh and you guys should develop a iphone application for planetarion! You'd be able to attract a whole lot of people with such an application!

Last edited by Justafox; 11 Feb 2009 at 20:46.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 16:54   #2
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Re: To save planetarion

Somehow "don't change anything" doesn't sound like good advice to me, considering current signup count.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 17:00   #3
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Somehow "don't change anything" doesn't sound like good advice to me, considering current signup count.

Where did i say "dont change anything"?????

Last edited by Justafox; 11 Feb 2009 at 18:48.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 19:18   #4
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Re: To save planetarion

An iphone application is a great idea!

To be quite honest about integrating pa to facebook i have to say, oh no! Please dont integrate! worst case scenario is that all the girls i know see i love planetarion:P dry season then..

Maybe change the alliance limit to max 30 or 40? it would proberly bring back the "old galaxies" if u know what i mean..
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 19:23   #5
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Re: To save planetarion

Might be a good idea to make an alliance an co-operation between galaxies instead of an co-operation between planets.

But i can imagine alot of players would disagree..
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 19:53   #6
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Re: To save planetarion

i can just imagine that instead of relying on brute force, as alliances can today cuz of share numbers, theyll have to rely on strategies and politics much more. The most active players (usually top 3 alliances) will get more action with less ppl to rely on..
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:04   #7
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Re: To save planetarion

re: the iphone application - who'll be buying the mac to develop on and paying the developers fee to apple?
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:07   #8
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Re: To save planetarion

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re: the iphone application - who'll be buying the mac to develop on and paying the developers fee to apple?

You dont need a mac to develop on and the developers fee is really low... just ask 20 cents for the application and you'll earn it back in no time... Plus you will be able to attract a whole new audience to planetarion.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:20   #9
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Re: To save planetarion

iphone applications are coded in objective C, you need the iphone SDK to compile and test your application for the iphone platform (legally) and that is only available for macs.
The developers fee is a yearly payment of $99 - to make that back at 20 cents per install of a planetarion application will require 99 / (0.2*0.7) =~ 707 installs of it per year ( as apple take 30% of that 20c)

you are required to pay the developers fee to sell the application on the iphone app store (which is really the whole point of making a planetarion application for the iphone)
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:27   #10
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
iphone applications are coded in objective C, you need the iphone SDK to compile and test your application for the iphone platform (legally) and that is only available for macs.

Okay, even if you need a mac... i dont see that as a problem. You could easily earn it back and the prospect would make it worthwhile.
infact , in the near future everything is gonna be on mobile platforms so if you dont go along with the trend your gonna miss out.

Anyways , you would say the new owners would have enough money to buy a mac if you have seen their website and they made it kinda clear they are willing to invest.

Heck, maybe they already have a mac!
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:34   #11
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
iphone applications are coded in objective C, you need the iphone SDK to compile and test your application for the iphone platform (legally) and that is only available for macs.
The developers fee is a yearly payment of $99 - to make that back at 20 cents per install of a planetarion application will require 99 / (0.2*0.7) =~ 707 installs of it per year ( as apple take 30% of that 20c)

you are required to pay the developers fee to sell the application on the iphone app store (which is really the whole point of making a planetarion application for the iphone)
Look, if you want to improve planetarion and if you want to attract new players, your gonna have to invest!

From what i read i got the idea that the new owners want to invest.

Last edited by Justafox; 11 Feb 2009 at 20:44.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:35   #12
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Re: To save planetarion

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Okay, even if you need a mac... i dont see that as a problem. You could easily earn it back and the prospect would make it worthwhile.
Have you seen the price of macs lately? They arent exactly an insignificant expense - and with the fee for even developing on the iphone there needs to be a clear business model that will make a profit or there isnt much point doing the application and you would be better off just making a mobile browser friendly version that doesnt require something to be installed.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 20:40   #13
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
Have you seen the price of macs lately? They arent exactly an insignificant expense - and with the fee for even developing on the iphone there needs to be a clear business model that will make a profit or there isnt much point doing the application and you would be better off just making a mobile browser friendly version that doesnt require something to be installed.
A mobile browser friendly version could indeed be a better idea... So let me put it down this way:

Planetarion should make it possible to play the game on a mobile platform efficiently.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 21:13   #14
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Re: To save planetarion + Mobile application

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- Completely free (nowadays you got enough options with advertising or whatever)
You can always charge people for not showing advertisements but they should not get any in-game bonusses.

Who is going to pay to get rid of the ads if they dont get anything extra?

The current upgrade system makes it so that there is barely a reason to pay, and, honestly, I probably wouldnt upgrade my planet if I didnt already have credits sitting around. There is no reason to take the bonus out because as I see it, its the only true reason to upgrade and pay. (unless you really really want to use the R6 - 9 Xandathrii skin )

What makes it a fair bonus is that while it does give an advantage, it does not give an advantage that gives the planet the chance to be untouchable to planets that did not pay for it.

Plus, if they kept the extra scan longevity for paid planets, (Im not sure if they did) that would be another reason to pay, but only truly for scanners so the overall impact is small.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 21:18   #15
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Re: To save planetarion

The way i see it , if you get more players, youll get more advertising revenue.
The only way to get more players is to make it a free game where there is no option of getting more bonusses by payments.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 21:54   #16
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Re: To save planetarion

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The way i see it , if you get more players, youll get more advertising revenue.
Clearly

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Originally Posted by Justafox View Post
The only way to get more players is to make it a free game where there is no option of getting more bonusses by payments.

Not true, several other online games give the option to pay and to get certain advantages, and those advantages are usually major, so much so that so playing an unpaid account puts you to the point that the higher echelons of the game are virtually inaccessible.
This is what PA did originally, but they changed that recently, and I think the only thing that is holding us back is that advertising for PA is pretty much nonexistent.
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Unread 11 Feb 2009, 21:59   #17
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Bubert Samson View Post
Clearly




Not true, several other online games give the option to pay and to get certain advantages, and those advantages are usually major, so much so that so playing an unpaid account puts you to the point that the higher echelons of the game are virtually inaccessible.
This is what PA did originally, but they changed that recently, and I think the only thing that is holding us back is that advertising for PA is pretty much nonexistent.

All i know is that planetarion used to be massive until they wanted players to pay.
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Unread 12 Feb 2009, 06:29   #18
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Re: To save planetarion

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All i know is that planetarion used to be massive until they wanted players to pay.
True enough, but there were other factors. Most notably, there were more players looking for games like this than there are now, nowadays we have games like WoW or Warhammer Online to compete with, not as many want a text-based browser game.
And I dont know if anyone else also has this problem, but I have a very hard time trying to get friends to even try PA, it honestly doesnt sound that fun.

While I do believe there may be a resurgence coming to PA, it will never be as massive as it once was.
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Unread 12 Feb 2009, 08:46   #19
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Re: To save planetarion

'Application: Warbook
Users:
37,785 monthly active users - 3 friends'

Integration with facebook is probably one of the biggest changes we could make and fortunately it's being done!


But the game has to be made more accessible to new players.

They should have enough scans to be able to attack without an alliance, the shipstats should probably be simplified (there are several superfluous columns that can be removed without affecting depth) and protection should probably be shortened.



I don't agree with cutting alliance memberlimit to 30-40.

Alliances need several scanners, BCs, DCs etc. By cutting membercap you're just increasing the officer per member ratio required to work, ie you're effectively reducing the number of slots available for people who just want to play. In r29 there were about 755 players in allies I know can organise something. This round there's about 940. Higher membercaps don't seem to hurt.

Alternatively, if I was running an alliance, I'd just split us up into several tags and all the lower membercap would have achieved is to fragment a community.
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Unread 12 Feb 2009, 14:52   #20
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Re: To save planetarion

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if I was running an alliance, I'd just split us up into several tags.
Indeed. The notion that you can force a reduction in the size of communities is hilariously misguided.
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Unread 12 Feb 2009, 19:32   #21
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
Have you seen the price of macs lately? They arent exactly an insignificant expense - and with the fee for even developing on the iphone there needs to be a clear business model that will make a profit or there isnt much point doing the application and you would be better off just making a mobile browser friendly version that doesnt require something to be installed.
It wouldn't surprise me a huge amount if fubra already has number of macs. I know several web development businesses that work with macs rather than pcs.

That said, I agree with you on having a decent browser based version instead - the only advanatge of an iphone app would be the ability to do some things while offline.
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Unread 13 Feb 2009, 21:07   #22
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Re: To save planetarion

"one definition of insanity is doing the same and expecting a different outcome" Einstein.
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 00:19   #23
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Re: To save planetarion

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"one definition of insanity is doing the same and expecting a different outcome" Einstein.
yeah nice quote...now come up with your own lines and construct rather then break down.
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 14:31   #24
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Re: To save planetarion

On an interesting sidenote, these annoying ads that make noise every 5th second are really making me want to quit, i can't possibly be the only one!?
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 15:40   #25
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Re: To save planetarion

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On an interesting sidenote, these annoying ads that make noise every 5th second are really making me want to quit, i can't possibly be the only one!?
i assume none of those are ingame, that they are just on the forum, ingame ads were updated a week ago or so, forum still hasn't, waiting for the code etc
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 17:42   #26
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Re: To save planetarion

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i assume none of those are ingame, that they are just on the forum, ingame ads were updated a week ago or so, forum still hasn't, waiting for the code etc
Correct, but they still show on the manual pages, shipstats, etc
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 19:18   #27
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Re: To save planetarion

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Correct, but they still show on the manual pages, shipstats, etc
erm...manual etc doesn't have any ads...
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 21:00   #28
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Re: To save planetarion

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On an interesting sidenote, these annoying ads that make noise every 5th second are really making me want to quit, i can't possibly be the only one!?
Adblock
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Unread 14 Feb 2009, 23:20   #29
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Re: To save planetarion

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erm...manual etc doesn't have any ads...
My apologies, i must've been drunk or something. I could swear i've been annoyed by those beeps while examining the stats :/
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Unread 15 Feb 2009, 03:54   #30
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Re: To save planetarion

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My apologies, i must've been drunk or something. I could swear i've been annoyed by those beeps while examining the stats :/
Probably just mIRC.

or maybe youre much worse off that we originally thought
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Unread 18 Feb 2009, 20:09   #31
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Re: To save planetarion

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On an interesting sidenote, these annoying ads that make noise every 5th second are really making me want to quit, i can't possibly be the only one!?

you are not.
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Unread 19 Feb 2009, 03:47   #32
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Bubert Samson View Post
...I think the only thing that is holding us back is that advertising for PA is pretty much nonexistent.
agreed, we as a community should be out there spreading the word and spamming forums/myspace/facebook with PA banners
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Unread 19 Feb 2009, 05:46   #33
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Re: To save planetarion

I agree with Gate.

With some luck this game and it's community will still be around by the time I find time to come back to it.

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Unread 21 Feb 2009, 14:53   #34
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by MACOS View Post
An iphone application is a great idea!

To be quite honest about integrating pa to facebook i have to say, oh no! Please dont integrate! worst case scenario is that all the girls i know see i love planetarion:P dry season then..

Its true. PA And Facebook just wont go. However, PA + iPhone App =
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Unread 21 Feb 2009, 15:04   #35
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Re: To save planetarion

Why do so many people want an iPhone app? like it would save planetarion from its dimishing numbers?

Its a pretty stupid idea, when you consider the cost and time involved and then balance that against what it would bring to the game. Its a much better solution all round to just make PA more friendly to every mobile, rather than exclusively to the iphone.

Judging by the amount of new players or returning players PA still gets after 30rounds, the only real thing that needs changing is the ease of the game for the new player. As its still a heavily flawed game where the new player doesnt know what to do when he logs in.

There's absolutly nothing for the new player in Planetarion. Planetarion in its current form requires the new player to come on irc, get into a established alliance, learn the ship stats, learn the tech tree and economy, learn how to attack with full use of scans (How does he even get scans?), learn that if he doesnt come online in the middle of the night.. he's going to die etc. How can you possibly expect to get a influx of players (and keep them) with the game setup like that?

The downfall of Planetarion is that it has no learning curve. From the moment you create your account, you need to know what you're doing or you'll just get podded/killed and exiled.

The Buddy System also does close to the exact opposite of whats intended, instead of the new player being welcomed.. He gets exiled and tossed around. Rather in the old system where he was highly likely to be in a poor galaxy but would be welcomed in that galaxy and placed with other new players.
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Unread 21 Feb 2009, 15:43   #36
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by HellKicker View Post
My apologies, i must've been drunk or something. I could swear i've been annoyed by those beeps while examining the stats :/
You probably had the forum window open at the same time as you were looking at the stats!
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Unread 22 Feb 2009, 01:27   #37
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Re: To save planetarion

make it harder to BASH ppl

new players that are stuggling to get to grips with it arent gonna carry on playing when hit my planets over twice there value when under 200 roids.

Atm i have 500k val and have a 1.3 mil val guy pl along with 2 others when on 160 roids. Now u give that to a new player and they'll simply quit
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Unread 22 Feb 2009, 09:05   #38
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Re: To save planetarion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Its a pretty stupid idea, when you consider the cost and time involved and then balance that against what it would bring to the game. Its a much better solution all round to just make PA more friendly to every mobile, rather than exclusively to the iphone.
Seconded


Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
... learn that if he doesnt come online in the middle of the night.. he's going to die etc. How can you possibly expect to get a influx of players (and keep them) with the game setup like that?
PA has greatly increased the opportunities for casual players, back in the "golden days" of PA, there was no chance to become big unless you could always be on to manage your incs and launch when you needed to (there was no prelaunch) and when you lost roids/ships, you didnt have a whole lot left to your score because it was primarily value, so I dont think this is an issue.

As far as game structure goes, I will reiterate what Gate said:
Bold added for what I think is most necessary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
They should have enough scans to be able to attack without an alliance, the shipstats should probably be simplified (there are several superfluous columns that can be removed without affecting depth) and protection should probably be shortened.
All these years, PA has been evolving to better fit the current community, leaving little room for others. This was fine for the paying players, but now since we are primarily trying to get new players, we need to reverse some of the changes we made.
Old PA was much less complicated than it is now, and that is one of the reasons so many people played. I remember when I first started playing in round 3 and how overwhelmed I was with how much I could do in this game in comparison to the others, and that was round 3! PA has become more and more complicated since then and the only reason I am able to keep up is that I have been used to it for so long now.
I cant imagine how it must be to a new person just starting out in round 30...

/rant
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Unread 22 Feb 2009, 10:49   #39
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Bubert Samson View Post
Seconded

PA has greatly increased the opportunities for casual players, back in the "golden days" of PA, there was no chance to become big unless you could always be on to manage your incs and launch when you needed to (there was no prelaunch) and when you lost roids/ships, you didnt have a whole lot left to your score because it was primarily value, so I dont think this is an issue.
That is just plain wrong, not from a basic gameplay point of view, as u say in r3 it was harder to get to the top than it is now. However it was entirely possible to maintain a decent account with 10 mins a day - i did it; i was very slowly coaxed onto IRC by my galaxy - unable to exile me, therefore desperate to make something of me. More importantly the tempo of the game was slower; being gal-raided was, if not at war, a weekly, not daily phenomenon - because there where more gals to choose from! Quite appart from that you could lead an existance pretty much independent of the big guys while being in the higher up nub clusters.
All these were the benefits of size as such offer no solutions, except that it was a lot easier to play inactively, enjoy it and develop a planet along a line of comparison where U might be big, not against the 100's of millions in score of Game, Biggdogg, Singu et al. but compared against the single digit of tens of millions of your freinds.
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Unread 22 Feb 2009, 16:27   #40
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
That is just plain wrong, not from a basic gameplay point of view, as u say in r3 it was harder to get to the top than it is now. However it was entirely possible to maintain a decent account with 10 mins a day - i did it; i was very slowly coaxed onto IRC by my galaxy - unable to exile me, therefore desperate to make something of me. More importantly the tempo of the game was slower; being gal-raided was, if not at war, a weekly, not daily phenomenon - because there where more gals to choose from! Quite appart from that you could lead an existance pretty much independent of the big guys while being in the higher up nub clusters.
All these were the benefits of size as such offer no solutions, except that it was a lot easier to play inactively, enjoy it and develop a planet along a line of comparison where U might be big, not against the 100's of millions in score of Game, Biggdogg, Singu et al. but compared against the single digit of tens of millions of your freinds.
When I said "get big", I meant specifically the highest ranking players, not players that think they are doing well because they are doing better than their friends, but dont make the t100 (or even t1000 from back then) lists.

But I can agree with you that the tempo now is much faster than it was then, but I think some of the new additions have done a lot to counteract the increased tempo by making things, for lack of a better term, more automated, and I think that you can do more with your time now than you could before for that reason.
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Unread 23 Feb 2009, 03:48   #41
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Re: To save planetarion

The game does offer ways to help lower ranking planets compete in some way, however there is absolutely no guidance as to how to play in such ways.

To save Planetarion - make Planetarion look like a game again (no more walls of text for each page). Simplify the confusing crap formulas (if you need an entire page to describe formulas for each section then something is wrong). Drop any thoughts on gimmick improvements (Facebook, iPhone, etc.) until the game itself is improved. Go through the entire process of starting a new account and figure out what problems new players are facing.

Fiddling about with formulas each round and adding more complexity to the game when the site can't explain it well enough as it is to players isn't helping the game.
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Unread 23 Feb 2009, 09:00   #42
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Hutchi View Post
Atm i have 500k val and have a 1.3 mil val guy pl along with 2 others when on 160 roids. Now u give that to a new player and they'll simply quit
You're at war with another alliance; hardly the same situation a new signup will be in.


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Unread 23 Feb 2009, 21:04   #43
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
You're at war with another alliance; hardly the same situation a new signup will be in.
Yeah that i am. Just a shame it wasnt the ppl i'm at war with, as usuall it was from a top4 Ally
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Unread 3 Mar 2009, 14:01   #44
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Re: To save planetarion

Do you guys think pete from fubra read any of the above?? Because there are some good pointers!:P
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Unread 3 Mar 2009, 14:09   #45
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Re: To save planetarion

Yes, I read the forums every day. The admins are still hard at work transferring the game to new servers.
Once that is complete, we can all start thinking about how the game should change.
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Unread 3 Mar 2009, 14:14   #46
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Re: To save planetarion

Cool! looking forward to it!
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 04:51   #47
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Re: To save planetarion

If something must change in PA, it's the massive teamups (I've seen 15 planets teaming up on a wave, no doubt there has been more). We should go back to the days when it was possible and rewarding to attack one on one.
I don't see where is the fun in the current mentality of bullying and bashing others. I don't know what the solution could be, you can't forbid people from teaming up but it should bring little reward (maybe calculating XP and roid caping on fleets values: the target fleet value even if not fighting + whatever def there is vs the incoming fleets value).
With the current mentality we see 4 top alliances teaming up against 1, again I don't see the fun nor the pride to take from this. I find it rather shameful but it may be only me...
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 11:53   #48
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Re: To save planetarion

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
If something must change in PA, it's the massive teamups (I've seen 15 planets teaming up on a wave, no doubt there has been more). We should go back to the days when it was possible and rewarding to attack one on one.
Alot of teamups are a result of changing from singletargetting to multitargetting.
With singletargetting every race had a couple of 'flaws' in the stats which made it easy for 1-2 races to attack them, with multitargetting where almost every shipclass shoots at everything it has become alot harder for a single planet to land on another planet, which is why there are alot of (multirace) teamups.
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Unread 4 Mar 2009, 11:56   #49
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Re: To save planetarion

i personally think and stated it before here and on irc, what pa needs is more micromanagement

give ppl something to do in between waiting for fleets to arrive/get back home

build farms to feed the growing population
build concert halls, theaters to boost the morale - fleetmoral? like higher moral = more killing or something
build factories and produce goods also to maintain morale
build powerplants to supply everything build with energy - new resource?
build houses - ppl got to live somewhere
build schools, universities and research labs - better research
etc etc

thats pretty easy to implement i would think, and wouldnt change the game for all those old PA ppl too much, as it would still be about attacking & defending

how to do it? have more then 1h ticks, make the micro-management realtime, while combat still tick every hour for exampel
implement some gfx showing your planet and the several houses on it (nice to look at and something ppl can enjoy)

why do it? cause i think the game needs something to keep the lower ranked ppl playing, which get hit constantly, crash constantly or only log in occasionally. have em enjoy the game though not competing for a top spot and have more planets in the universe = more roids = more competition = less traffic on your homeworld

my 2 cents
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 19:18   #50
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Re: To save planetarion

Maybe somebody should evaluate the possibilities of using this: http://mybrowsergame.com/
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