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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 01:06   #101
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Re: Who watches the Watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
So actually taking part in namecalling, not moderating his own alliance members namecalling / harrashment posts and obvisously deleting others who disagree on thier point of view is ok for a mod?
Obviously no, it isnt.
The insults, regardless of how warranted they may have seemed is not something any moderator of a pa related forum should be doing - and especially not someone with supermod who is 'second in command' as it were.
If it was GD then fair enough - thats the sort of thing that goes on there but it isnt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Also the fact that its a mod, and as such a trusted pa community member that takes the lead on the one pa exploitation expedition after the other to try and force thier point of view trough is pathetic. As such forum mods, c-service reps eta should try and move beyond thier personal motives and try and behave as rolemodels.
the alliance is irrelevent, so long as moderating decisions are not governed down a 'party line' where alliance members and views are concerned. If you want to complain about a mod then take it to biffy ( since JammyJim is never ever ever online these days it seems - nor would he actually do anything about it. )
Being a mod should not mean cutting ties with alliances as the 'power' they have is minor, all changes they make can be logged and undone relatively easily and its not as major a position in terms of responsibility as pateam.
That said, a little bit of decorum would go a long way with them at times.

Edit: afterthought. Didnt jolt force the mods to sign the NDA at one point?
JBG may have had to if he was in pateam that time a while ago.
If so they have / he has surely breached one of the clauses related to behaviour
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 09:05   #102
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

I can't really see what this conversation you and Red- are having is doing here.

But what a fantastic idea. Let's kill off the forums, too.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:20   #103
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Yeah you lot allready tried for the MH team so lets continue the cleansing with the biased forum mods and the corrupt c-service members.

Or wait maybe we could get Transparant Forum Modding, so when ever JBG does something he must post it on a forum so people can judge it and give him feedback (critize him).

The hipocracy...
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:29   #104
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Yeah you lot allready tried for the MH team so lets continue the cleansing with the biased forum mods and the corrupt c-service members.
Or wait maybe we could get Transparant Forum Modding, so when ever JBG does something he must post it on a forum so people can judge it and give him feedback (critize him).
The hipocracy...
If he'd ban you right away, ~80% would agree. Thats what you fail to see.
Ofc they would all be Asc the moment they'd agree.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:47   #105
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Because you happen to be 10-15 spamtrolls that ravage the boards when people disagree with you, you are by no means a majority.

As you would have noticed by now (if you actually read peoples post') you would see that more and more "normal" pa people are trying to take part in the debate, but sadly guys like you cant do much more then harrashment and namecalling.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:56   #106
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Re: Who watches the Watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Obviously no, it isnt.
The insults, regardless of how warranted they may have seemed is not something any moderator of a pa related forum should be doing - and especially not someone with supermod who is 'second in command' as it were.
If it was GD then fair enough - thats the sort of thing that goes on there but it isnt.
The standard line is, and has always been, that moderators' posting should be treated the same as any other poster's. Given that insulting someone isn't unacceptable behaviour (depending on the context), then I see no reason why JBG should be censored for doing so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
the alliance is irrelevent, so long as moderating decisions are not governed down a 'party line' where alliance members and views are concerned. If you want to complain about a mod then take it to biffy ( since JammyJim is never ever ever online these days it seems - nor would he actually do anything about it. )
Moderating decisions are taken objectively and without regard to alliance affiliation. For example, as AD mod lokken has banned Ascendancy members in the past due to repeated transgressions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
That said, a little bit of decorum would go a long way with them at times.
Don't expect us to treat posters any differently than how we would if we were regular forum members. You'll generally find that mods are of a calibre where they initally argue the point, until they too are faced with someone's idiocy and see little point in putting the effort into countering capricious arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Edit: afterthought. Didnt jolt force the mods to sign the NDA at one point?
JBG may have had to if he was in pateam that time a while ago.
If so they have / he has surely breached one of the clauses related to behaviour
As Jester said (he was AD mod at the time), they tried and there was a blanket refusal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
They tried, but no one wants to sign an insane piece of shit like that for the 'privilege' of moderating forums when you have to deal with ****wits like Red-.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:19   #107
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Yeah you lot allready tried for the MH team so lets continue the cleansing with the biased forum mods and the corrupt c-service members.

Or wait maybe we could get Transparant Forum Modding, so when ever JBG does something he must post it on a forum so people can judge it and give him feedback (critize him).

The hipocracy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Because you happen to be 10-15 spamtrolls that ravage the boards when people disagree with you, you are by no means a majority.

As you would have noticed by now (if you actually read peoples post') you would see that more and more "normal" pa people are trying to take part in the debate, but sadly guys like you cant do much more then harrashment and namecalling.

New forum moderators are generally chosen out of the active forum posters, and have excelled themselves in their posting. It is rare that you'll find any PA-related forum posters who aren't part of an alliance, or who don't have strong ties to any particular alliance. This means that when choosing a new moderator, their ability to be objective must also be considered - to ignore any alliance ties and to consider their posting on its own merits. You will find that all of the present moderators are more than able to do so.

There seems to be a 'movement' at the moment against Ascendancy and its presence on the forums. The entire situation is reminiscent of the Fury Troll Squad, the Eclipse Troll Squad, the 1up Troll Squad and now the Ascendancy Troll Squad.

Simply, most of the best posters on the forums have joined Ascendancy. Whereas once many of them were in bitter opposition to each other, they are now part of the same alliance. You say that they are 10-15 spamtrolls. I say that they are 10-15 active posters who continually contribute to the forums in ways you seem unable to contemplate.

Unfortunately the rest of the forum posters are part of alliances that aren't going to challenge to win the present round of PA, and as ever most of their posting reflects that level of in-game success - i.e. there isn't any. There has always been a clear pattern indicating that the best forum posters are part of the best alliances, and since none of the top 5 have any significant active forum posters, the forums are naturally going to be dominated by Ascendancy posters. Further, three of the mods are Ascendancy-related.

However, I have no ties to Ascendancy and since I don't play PA anymore, I keep an eye on Ascendancy-related moderating matters. Suffice it to say that both lokken and JBG do a very good job and aren't hindered by their alliance ties.


Oh and as per your transparent forum modding suggestion, I've always considered the best sort of modding to be invisible modding - i.e. where it's done behind the scenes and where regular posters never have to worry about it. This creates a superior forum experience where readers can get on with reading threads without having moderators' actions drawing their attention. We do a lot of work in PM with posters who are getting close to the line, and given that this is done in confidence it probably wouldn't be appropriate to publicise these.

Nevertheless, if we chose to publicise these I'm sure everyone could have a good giggle.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:49   #108
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
most of the best posters on the forums have joined Ascendancy
So mass spamming harrashment and name calling posts amongst others is "best posts"?

Half of them should have most thier posts deleted and they should get a warning. The other half might be ok posters, i am not saying anything about the level of thier posts as such except for those who resort to namecalling and harrashment.

But it seems the majority of these guys have a big problem with people disagreeing with them, and when unable to argument thier way trough a debate they tend to resort to other means which should be taken care of by mod's.

I cant see why on earth forum mod's cant understand that - Its the same all over on forums, mods assure a reasonable level of debate by taking out the harrashment/name calling etc.

The general PA user never uses these boards - the standard reply you get when talking about pa boards is somewhat around "nah i dont use em, its the same crap all over", and thats been the rep of pa boards for ages now.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 12:35   #109
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
So mass spamming harrashment and name calling posts amongst others is "best posts"?
Please point it out, as I see none serious enough or repeated enough to warrant any action.

Quote:
Half of them should have most thier posts deleted and they should get a warning. The other half might be ok posters, i am not saying anything about the level of thier posts as such except for those who resort to namecalling and harrashment.
As I have said, so long as people make a point and back it up, I do not care. If people want to turn it into a flamefest then of course, I will take action.

Quote:
But it seems the majority of these guys have a big problem with people disagreeing with them, and when unable to argument thier way trough a debate they tend to resort to other means which should be taken care of by mod's.
Forums are about debate and opinion - if you don't have opposite views, you can't really have an argument.

Quote:
I cant see why on earth forum mod's cant understand that - Its the same all over on forums, mods assure a reasonable level of debate by taking out the harrashment/name calling etc.
If you want some sanitised forum, go elsewhere. The forum would be boring if we modded to the level you demand. As far as I am concerned I am, forums being 'work safe' (if anyone ever thought visiting a gaming forum during work was wise) is enough.

Quote:
The general PA user never uses these boards - the standard reply you get when talking about pa boards is somewhat around "nah i dont use em, its the same crap all over", and thats been the rep of pa boards for ages now.
I agree - posters who make assertions, don't back themselves up and whine at the moderating to run threads offtopic make me angry too.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 13:55   #110
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I got no idea why he brings this up now though, as both me and him now know I was totally off and that I was only assuming. It's beyond me why he chose to use my assumptions as credible information though, he knew I was only a member and knew very little about what was going on.
To be honest, you never mentioned words like "assume", "think", "believe" etc in the convo we had. I do know you're just a member, but if you go back and read the log yourself you'll see that you actually presented it all in a credible way. Don't blame me for your assumptions

And i only brought it up becuase it fitted the discussion and because it clarifies why it's easy to believe nasty things about asc when its own members think/assume the exactly same things. It has nothing to do with Nadar or Asc directly. It's just to clarify the thoughtmechanism of those who attacks asc for foul play since it appears impossible for some posters on these forums to understand why asc are being attacked.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 16:31   #111
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
To be honest, you never mentioned words like "assume", "think", "believe" etc in the convo we had. I do know you're just a member, but if you go back and read the log yourself you'll see that you actually presented it all in a credible way. Don't blame me for your assumptions
You should have known better (e.g. that I was assuming) as you knew I knew very little about it and was only a member. It's limited what a member knows, especially about another alliance (desc). I'm sorry if I sounded too credible for you though - but I did in no way intend to make it so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimpie
And i only brought it up becuase it fitted the discussion and because it clarifies why it's easy to believe nasty things about asc when its own members think/assume the exactly same things. It has nothing to do with Nadar or Asc directly. It's just to clarify the thoughtmechanism of those who attacks asc for foul play since it appears impossible for some posters on these forums to understand why asc are being attacked.
It's wrong of you to assume everyone are thinking those things just because you spoke to me. I was only discussing this with you because you kept going on for ages in pm about how much Ascendancy used Descendancy as a support alliance, I had little to no interest in discussing it with you and I only answered as good (or bad I guess) as I could.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 19:51   #112
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Re: Who watches the Watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The standard line is, and has always been, that moderators' posting should be treated the same as any other poster's. Given that insulting someone isn't unacceptable behaviour (depending on the context), then I see no reason why JBG should be censored for doing so.
from the rules you mods have to uphold : ( clause 4 )
Quote:
to actually attack their person is wrong. Being verbally
attacked by people in groups is unfair and is not, in my opinion, at all allowable. Its childish and immature and will be stopped.
So far i see a large group attacking red- ( although its painfully obvious why, both to read the cause and resulting posts ) and mods actively participating in it.
No sign of stopping it thusfar. Its like a pack of cats playing with a mouse for their own amusement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Don't expect us to treat posters any differently than how we would if we were regular forum members. You'll generally find that mods are of a calibre where they initally argue the point, until they too are faced with someone's idiocy and see little point in putting the effort into countering capricious arguments.
Why?
Why shouldnt mods be held to a higher standard then regular posters?
Its a position of responsibility after all


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
As Jester said (he was AD mod at the time), they tried and there was a blanket refusal.
Im only half remembering the attempt. Regardless though, if JBG was in pateam for a period of time then he will have probably had to sign one.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 19:58   #113
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
There seems to be a 'movement' at the moment against Ascendancy and its presence on the forums. The entire situation is reminiscent of the Fury Troll Squad, the Eclipse Troll Squad, the 1up Troll Squad and now the Ascendancy Troll Squad.

Simply, most of the best posters on the forums have joined Ascendancy.
Its in my view less of a movement and more of a reaction to the arrogance and verbal bullying that goes on from members there.
God knows how you can call people like robban1, or stoom one of the best posters though...
remind me - how many times has a mod banned them for their behaviour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Oh and as per your transparent forum modding suggestion, I've always considered the best sort of modding to be invisible modding - i.e. where it's done behind the scenes and where regular posters never have to worry about it.
Im in agreement here. There is no need for regular users to be able to see what was removed - Thats the entire point of removing it : Because its not something users should have inflicted upon them to read.
Deleted threads and posts are still readable by other mods and can be 'undone' if there is a disagreement.
Like the mods, I too prefer to get things dealt with quietly.

For instance my concerns about JBG's behaviour went to him in a PM - only to be replied to with a definition and the word "jackass". Clearly a 'positive result'
Its all the more galling considering that he himself pointed out that attacking red- was not acceptable
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Can we all at least try to discuss this in a civil manner please? While i disagree with the entire premise of this thread personally just wantonly flaming someone is not acceptable.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 20:01   #114
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltaine
If he'd ban you right away, ~80% would agree. Thats what you fail to see.
Ofc they would all be Asc the moment they'd agree.
I'd agree, but wouldnt be asc.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 22:54   #115
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Simply, most of the best posters on the forums have joined Ascendancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
God knows how you can call people like robban1, or stoom one of the best posters though...
All lions are animals, but not all animals are lions.

[edit]Totally offtopic again though.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 00:59   #116
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
You should have known better (e.g. that I was assuming) as you knew I knew very little about it and was only a member. It's limited what a member knows, especially about another alliance (desc). I'm sorry if I sounded too credible for you though - but I did in no way intend to make it so.
Nevertheless you did.
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Originally Posted by Nadar
It's wrong of you to assume everyone are thinking those things just because you spoke to me.
Stop being silly. I'll repeat myself: "it clarifies why it's easy to believe nasty things about asc when its own members think/assume the exactly same things." Like i said, it has nothing to do with you, but you clearly thought the same thing when you were out of the loop(something the larger part of the playerbase is), so why is it so hard to believe that other people follow the same line of thought?
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Originally Posted by Nadar
I was only discussing this with you because you kept going on for ages in pm about how much Ascendancy used Descendancy as a support alliance, I had little to no interest in discussing it with you and I only answered as good (or bad I guess) as I could.
Going on for ages? From the quoted convo i mentioned it once before we discussed it(thats usually how discussions appear if you didnt know) and i never mentioned it in any earlier convoes. So saying i was going on and on for ages about it is flat out a lie tbh and it kinda disappoints me that you would do that.

Edit: And when it comes to assuming nasty things, it doesnt become more difficult when one of JBG's initial replies about this(don't remember what thread) was "it means more people wants to play with me than you".
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 01:22   #117
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

What nasty things? It has been said like a dozen of times right here that there were too many people willing to play in Asc to put in under one tag, hence there were multiple tags.

I guess one could say that Desc was an attempt to "get around" the tag limit. Afterall, if there are too many people to fit into one tag, obviously you get around that by making a second one. There was nothing secret or underhand about that, and Descendancy never actively served as Asc's "support" alliance, so I still fail to spot "all the nasty things".
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 01:33   #118
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Descendancy never actively served as Asc's "support" alliance, so I still fail to spot "all the nasty things".
Rubbish. True, it was not supporting Asc in terms of score accumulation. Desc did however, covert op many alliance's amps. As such, Asc was the only tag that gained from Desc activity. And the dubious response of comparing attack cooperation (which can vary in extent) to covert ops is invalid because you either covert op someone or you dont. There is no middle ground or grey area. Its there in black and white. Desc worked in Asc's favour, which in light of your admission that Desc was created to get around the alliance tag limit, is at best against the spirit in how the game should be played (in relation to the eula and ingame mechanics), and at worst, cheating.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 01:43   #119
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Its in my view less of a movement and more of a reaction to the arrogance and verbal bullying that goes on from members there.
God knows how you can call people like robban1, or stoom one of the best posters though...
remind me - how many times has a mod banned them for their behaviour?
Exactly what Phil^ said. Every time I see JBG post something like "If it wasnt asc the reaction would be different" or "everyone hates asc" I get a urge to rip his neck off because the small group of Asc posters produce a fairly fair hatred of Asc through their "arrogance and verbal bullying"

And unlike past forum troll squads the problem with Asc's is it isn't restricted to the forums, their goal to annoy every member of this community happens in every facet of the game. You just cant get away from their immature 'jokes', the abuse and the arrogance no matter where you are. And while its probably only a small number the fact that they let members do what they like then hide behind the fact members do what they like just inflames the situation
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 02:36   #120
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

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Originally Posted by GJN
Rubbish. True, it was not supporting Asc in terms of score accumulation.
Heh. I should've just left it at this, you said enough yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Desc did however, covert op many alliance's amps. As such, Asc was the only tag that gained from Desc activity.
Surely this is wrong. When a scanner is crippled by having his amps destroyed, every alliance other than his own benefits from his inability to scan distorter-heavy planets. So every distorter-heavy planet in the universe gained from Desc's initial covert ops. If it even had any significant effect on the round, which it didn't really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Desc worked in Asc's favour, which in light of your admission that Desc was created to get around the alliance tag limit
What admission? Dude, the same thing was being said in this (and all related) threads since the very beginning, and as far as I could understand, it was told to the MH beforehand as well.

The group has extra people, and they made a new tag to play in. There was no actual supporting, as you said yourself in the very first line.

The entire fuss about covert ops and scanning is ridiculous and doesn't deserve a serious discussion. It's pretty much that some people felt a desperate need to find something so they could have the satisfaction of screaming "cheaters", "game killers", and the like.

As you can see, it's a very small group of people that cares, and even smaller one that attempts to make Descendancy look like some grand cheating scheme. But it's good comedy, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And unlike past forum troll squads the problem with Asc's is it isn't restricted to the forums, their goal to annoy every member of this community happens in every facet of the game.
That makes perfect sense, yes.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 02:57   #121
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 03:07   #122
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Rubbish. True, it was not supporting Asc in terms of score accumulation. Desc did however, covert op many alliance's amps. As such, Asc was the only tag that gained from Desc activity.
It's called a block.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
And the dubious response of comparing attack cooperation (which can vary in extent) to covert ops is invalid because you either covert op someone or you dont. There is no middle ground or grey area. Its there in black and white.
No, it's not invalid. It's called a block. And please explain how you can somehow attack someone while not attacking them, which seems to be what you're getting at.
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Originally Posted by GJN
Desc worked in Asc's favour,
It's called a block. Asc and Desc were blocked. Just as many alliances have been and will be. You don't cov-op your block partner's amps. You don't attack him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
which in light of your admission that Desc was created to get around the alliance tag limit, is at best against the spirit in how the game should be played (in relation to the eula and ingame mechanics), and at worst, cheating.
There were too many people who wanted to play "the Ascendancy way". So more than one ingame tag was formed, filled up with people playing this way. This is all anyone with a clue has "admitted" about the situation. Cos it's what happened.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 08:05   #123
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibaMac
There were too many people who wanted to play "the Ascendancy way". So more than one ingame tag was formed, filled up with people playing this way. This is all anyone with a clue has "admitted" about the situation. Cos it's what happened.
Let's call things what they are. Having a second tag for your overflow is not a block.

I have to say at the very start of this round I had the exact same thoughts as GJN. Ascendency finished last round with a fairly competitive score, everyone knew that they had accumulated a fair few players still playing for high scores and many players capable of playing very well and that other elite players were applying. People prepared for the possibility that Ascendancy was going to be very competitive this round. Had this been the case, clearly having an out of tag cov op team would be a very clear and obvious case of support planets (and the scanners too if one considers them as such). When the cov-oppers started hitting the top allies hard, it seemed to confirm this belief.

In retrospect things look very different. The cov opping was some people having some fun. The scanners are doing their own things, and ascendancy is playing as casually as ever and clearly not coordinating the actions of the people in the other tags.

It is obviously and admittedly an end run around the tag limit, and some of what went on can definitely be classified as support, but in the context of ascendency playing casually in the scattered every man for himself community that we all know and love, I really cant see it as a big deal.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 08:16   #124
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

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Originally Posted by K-W
Let's call things what they are. Having a second tag for your overflow is not a block.
Ok, lets assume it is not. Would you please elaborate the difference by rational means?
Because then we're discussing the problem with the support planet rule. And i wish we could leave that brainsucked fetish of certain persons behind.

On a sidenote, its kinda stunning how many people still dont get the general problem, and instead still preach about the utterly important topic of the current #13 alliance, because some roof tile found out how to type.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 09:19   #125
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

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Originally Posted by Coltaine
Ok, lets assume it is not. Would you please elaborate the difference by rational means?
Because then we're discussing the problem with the support planet rule. And i wish we could leave that brainsucked fetish of certain persons behind.
I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I think the differences between multiple (and generally speaking more than two) separate alliances forming a coalition and and an alliance admittedly putting its overflow into a separate tag are fairly obvious. Im sorry I went off onto this tangent in the first place since it is clearly off-topic, it just struck me as odd to see to see the term blocking enter into this discussion.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 09:43   #126
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Blocking been the excuse for a long time.

First they started off by semi admiting to it, then after a few days of forum postings they changed completely as they realised they could all get banned they starting deniing everything and claiming it was just blocking etc.

There is massive prove sent from lots of people to MH that they arent just blocking - like inc attackers on Asc getting Covopped by Desc, Mass scanning for Asc etc.

Everyone knows its smelly, except for Asc that claims ignorance and disorganisation instead - If they where so disorganised im amazaed they actually joined the same irc channel and split up in 2 tags ingame (sending all covoppers in the one...).
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 10:21   #127
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

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Originally Posted by Red-
Blocking been the excuse for a long time.
Its not an excuse, its questioning the very nature and practiceability of this rule. If you used your brain once, instead of talking of "they", "cservice" and the rest of your sorry mental garbage, you'd probably get to a point, where people cared about what you think. "The unknown" are really happy these days.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 10:42   #128
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
Going on for ages? From the quoted convo i mentioned it once before we discussed it(thats usually how discussions appear if you didnt know) and i never mentioned it in any earlier convoes. So saying i was going on and on for ages about it is flat out a lie tbh and it kinda disappoints me that you would do that.
Yes, you went on for ages, Chimpie. It was a fairly long conversation and it went on for more conversations later on (if you check your logs). EDIT: Thought it was more, but it was only two long conversations.

I've told the truth all the way here. I could have just avoided posting anything at all and kept hiding as the one you had the convo with, yet I came forward and explained things you seemed to have misunderstood.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 11:19   #129
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Yes, you went on for ages, Chimpie. It was a fairly long conversation and it went on for more conversations later on (if you check your logs). So don't lie, thanks.
We talked about this ONE time before this thread, and ONE time after. Alltogether the convo's lasted for an hour and a half max, and asc/desc were not the only stuff we talked about in theese convo's. We also talked about galbanners, your knee, XP-whoring, and some other stuff in the convo's. How you make that out to be going on and on about it for ages is beyond me, but you made me not care at all, so enjoy. To me, you're lying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I've told the truth all the way here. I could have just avoided posting anything at all and kept hiding as the one you had the convo with, yet I came forward and explained things you seemed to have misunderstood.
I never forced you to do anything, i pointed you to the thread and told you i quoted you but that i didnt say who i quoted. Yet you seem to miss the point. If YOU as a member can misunderstand the meaning of desc to that point you did, HOW can it be so weird that people without your access to knowledge misunderstands the meaning of desc and then questions it on theese forums?

But its ok, believe what you want and see what you want. You're obviously good at it.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 11:33   #130
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
If YOU as a member can misunderstand the meaning of desc to that point you did, HOW can it be so weird that people without your access to knowledge misunderstands the meaning of desc and then questions it on theese forums?
Why should I have known the meaning of Descendancy? I'm in ASCendancy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimpie
But its ok, believe what you want and see what you want. You're obviously good at it.
That's exactly what I've told you you've been doing all along; seeing what you want to see.

I wasn't the one who chose to post citations from our private conversations without asking me first. You're the one to take the blame for all this, definitely not me. I don't hope you expected me to ignore everything.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 11:37   #131
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
When a scanner is crippled by having his amps destroyed, every alliance other than his own benefits from his inability to scan distorter-heavy planets. So every distorter-heavy planet in the universe gained from Desc's initial covert ops. If it even had any significant effect on the round, which it didn't really.
In all fairness, if all but one alliance get hit by cov oppers, that one alliance clearly has some sort of advantage. Whether or not this advantage is "unfair" is a different issue, one which cannot be resolved with anything resembling objectivity.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 11:39   #132
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
There is massive prove sent from lots of people to MH that they arent just blocking - like inc attackers on Asc getting Covopped by Desc, Mass scanning for Asc etc.
Guess what - that can and most likely do happen in every block too! It's called cooperation and helping each other out in need. Guess you don't know what it means though.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 11:52   #133
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Why should I have known the meaning of Descendancy? I'm in ASCendancy!
I always said you were an asc-member, that was one of the first things i wrote. So you feel that asc members dont have more insight to desc than other people in general?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
That's exactly what I've told you you've been doing all along; seeing what you want to see.
That goes both ways. I use the info presented to me, if you arent a reliable source, then people should take that into account when reading my initial post. I never once claimed you were in desc, i just made the assumption that asc-members have more insight to this than the average joe. Maybe i'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I wasn't the one who chose to post citations from our private conversations without asking me first. You're the one to take the blame for all this, definitely not me. I don't hope you expected me to ignore everything.
I never expected anything from you, not even to confirm yourself as a source. What blame? Is there any wrongdoing on my part except for relaying bad info? It only makes my point more valid. When someone semi-in-the-loop misunderstands something completely, how can it be so weird that people completely-out-of-the-loop misunderstands the same thing completely? If asc-members arent in the loop at all about *scendancy, my initial post becomes invalid. But after reading these forums i don't feel that it's far off to assume that the average asc member knows more about desc than other people. JBG posts on behalf of desc all the time, yet he is an asc-hc afaik...

Anyway, EOD on my part, people may think what they want.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 12:15   #134
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
I always said you were an asc-member, that was one of the first things i wrote. So you feel that asc members dont have more insight to desc than other people in general?
I don't have more insight in desc than you and I don't think asc members in general has more insight than you. That's what I think though, I could be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimpie
That goes both ways. I use the info presented to me, if you arent a reliable source, then people should take that into account when reading my initial post. I never once claimed you were in desc, i just made the assumption that asc-members have more insight to this than the average joe. Maybe i'm wrong.
You didn't claim I was in desc and I didn't say so, but as I feel it you seem to think there's no difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimpie
I never expected anything from you, not even to confirm yourself as a source. What blame? Is there any wrongdoing on my part except for relaying bad info? It only makes my point more valid. When someone semi-in-the-loop misunderstands something completely, how can it be so weird that people completely-out-of-the-loop misunderstands the same thing completely? If asc-members arent in the loop at all about *scendancy, my initial post becomes invalid. But after reading these forums i don't feel that it's far off to assume that the average asc member knows more about desc than other people. JBG posts on behalf of desc all the time, yet he is an asc-hc afaik...
Of course you didn't expect me to post here, but that's not really the most important thing here. The important thing is that you used me as a credible source without asking me first and told me after you had posted from a private conversation. Had you asked me first I could even have saved you from the embarrassment and humiliation (if you feel any) when your post weren't based on facts at all. I would have told you more clearly that my thoughts were assumptions only. What JBG does is none of my concern, but he's the one who approached Fiery pre-round in the first place, so it's not quite unnatural that he's the one answering.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 14:13   #135
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W

It is obviously and admittedly an end run around the tag limit, and some of what went on can definitely be classified as support, but in the context of ascendency playing casually in the scattered every man for himself community that we all know and love, I really cant see it as a big deal.
I think this whole thing brings up an interesting point, and it's really what I was hoping to bring up with the creation of descendancy. After last round more than 70 people wanted to play in ascendancy, and perhaps more importantly wanted to play the ascendancy way. I believed that everyone should have had a chance to do that. Was I wrong to believe this? I'm sure we can all acknowledge now that it wasn't some sort of attempt to win PA or anything like that. For the record I'm sure various ascendancy members believed various things about it, I don't recall many people asking me seriously what the creation of descendancy was intended to accomplish so they probably just made up their own ideas about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And while its probably only a small number the fact that they let members do what they like then hide behind the fact members do what they like just inflames the situation
But it's true. What do you expect me to do, hide in front of it? Perhaps sway a bit around it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
For instance my concerns about JBG's behaviour went to him in a PM
The best bit was when you told me to "get my house in order". Who talks like that?

Edit: Sorry, that was actually a different complaint. To be honest I just don't respond well to people who pm me things like "if you were actually a competent mod you'd do x and y", especially when even after reflecting on it it doesn't appear to be true either. However we are all doing some behind the scenes work now and soon all your complaints will be addressed!

Secondary edit: I'm actually a descendancy HC chimpie.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 14:50   #136
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Secondary edit: I'm actually a descendancy HC chimpie.
Easy to be thrown off when your own arby(assuming munin is yours, as nothing seems to be what the look like theese days) says you're ascendancy O_o
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 15:14   #137
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Yeah, munin doesn't track your epenis unless you're down as ascendancy so I changed my intel to that.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 15:41   #138
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
Easy to be thrown off when your own arby(assuming munin is yours, as nothing seems to be what the look like theese days) says you're ascendancy O_o
All Asc members can see an 'A' on the left side of the planet if it's a member of Ascendancy. JBG doesn't have one. I can make a screenshot if he allows it.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 16:39   #139
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

I doubt he cares Nadar, it's all pretty irrelevant anyway. If people are still under the illusion that Ascendancy plays as anything other than a loose co-operative of players then all they have to do is ask the new members who joined Ascendancy this round then jumped ship once they realised it wasn't all a massively organised conspiracy to achieve victory. Now I don't criticise them at all, everyone should play the way they feel comfortable and in Ascendancy your score generally reflects only the effort put in by yourself and your galmates. No HC/BC/DC/A.N.Chump is going to put the time in for you.

But like I say ask FeNiX, YuC, DosGrandeBeans (names from the top of my head, there are quite a few others) who jumped this round when it wasn't what people like Red- still think it is.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 18:57   #140
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
All Asc members can see an 'A' on the left side of the planet if it's a member of Ascendancy. JBG doesn't have one. I can make a screenshot if he allows it.
I didnt say he was, just said it was easy to be thrown off, wouldnt surprise me if you disagreed tho... Besides, i obviously wouldnt take your word for it
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 19:23   #141
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Is it wrong that I'm happy I'm on that list (although slightly miffed I'm at the bottom)
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 22:51   #142
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

You should be more worried by the fact I'm meant to be protecting you.
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Unread 23 Jul 2007, 22:48   #143
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Re: The Nature of the Support Planets Rule and other such extended discussions

I disagree with the 'munin is one of our victims' on that wiki page. Because at the rate munin is growing, pretty soon he/she/it will take over the world in some horrific terminator-style rampage of blood and gore.
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