User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 19 May 2015, 20:42   #51
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Farms or not farms. Cov-op or no cov-op, thats not the issue with these stats.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2015, 23:13   #52
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Even with out farms, 2 rounds ago i stole 5 Bs pods, which cap 25 roids and attacked with 5k value into 70k value planets and cap 25 roids with 60k xp we need to make that less likely that people will be able to attack right out of the gate w/o even researching Hulls.

At the moment one of the best starts is to get shipsteal by tick 27* cap a small amount of cr/bs pods and roid for the 20-30 roid caps at a time. These landing can net a unskilled planet 50-100k in score night 1 while starting your core or hull or hct research and then you arent losing anything for your "startup"
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2015, 23:23   #53
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Terran almost seems to be without a role in these stats.
Ter fi; what does it bring to the fi team? Etd and Xan between them shoot before ter fi.
Ter fr; zik and xan clearly need each other for the Clipper and the Vsh but do they need a ter? The Centaur has the init advantage over its xan teammate's Apparation, but it does not have the init over any battleships that target fr except the Scorpion which is frankly hardly likely to be a common ship.
Ter bs; both its etd teammates ships out init ter bs so why bother?

I understand that this is partially a problem caused by having 3 pods each meaning there are pointless fleets. And I realise that it makes a teamup much worse if it has to rely on three different fleets rather than just two. But I am not sure that is an excuse for having a race that is relegated to being pretty much unhelpful to anyone else, and is at the same time not likely to be good at solo roiding.

On a totally different issue the Peacekeeper seems a very odd ship. Lower D/C and A/C than any other xan ship, combined with being heavy hulls (for slow research xan) when xan in these stats dont need heavy hulls, it does not have the init advantage over the attack fleets it targets, so why would anyone build it?
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2015, 23:51   #54
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

You need to look at what ever ter brings to a alliance as a whole.
Its quite clear these stats will push for every alliance going for a FI strat.
a
As cath has been butchered, there is no other good route for me yet beside 75% xan and 25% etd/ter
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 02:50   #55
TheoDD
Registered User
Othello Champion, Solitaire Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
TheoDD has a spectacular aura aboutTheoDD has a spectacular aura about
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Even with out farms, 2 rounds ago i stole 5 Bs pods, which cap 25 roids and attacked with 5k value into 70k value planets and cap 25 roids with 60k xp we need to make that less likely that people will be able to attack right out of the gate w/o even researching Hulls.
60k xp? what game would that be, if you are gonna lie... atleast make it reasonable.
TheoDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 03:41   #56
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
60k xp? what game would that be, if you are gonna lie... atleast make it reasonable.
Sorry 60k score worth of xp. More like 1-2k actual Xp.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 04:24   #57
M0RPH3US
idle
 
M0RPH3US's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 967
M0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really nice
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I would be infavor switching bank-hack and ship steal in the research line. Anyone with demo right now can have ship steal by tick24 and they wont lose that much time in actual research, i've done it 2 rounds now, where i steal pods tick 24 and 27 and attack tick 30 for 50-100k score gains. I think this should be moved back so that you have to spend actual ticks getting to it. This way unless you want to bonus tick 36 for it people wont have ship steal till tick 50ish, and by that point they will be way far behind that its not just a "oh ill give up my startup bonuses" Then its another 24 ticks till they can start mining roids and even another 20 ticks til they can build ships of their own. At this point we are at tick 100 and they are TT0 and no Core and maybe 50k value in fleets.

I am not saying its impossible it is just a very commited play style form that point, much like scanning where you have to give up quite a bit of your round start to do it.
seconded
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"Its not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
M0RPH3US is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 04:33   #58
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

FI looks good on paper, but is easily countered by a fr/de based alliance

Ter is a race that fills the role of soaking emp/dmg anyone who goes ter will benefit from reduced incs due to its high armor, ter is a late game strat it provides good def coverage for ally and can fill in for some extra dmg on attacks if you dont shut down terrans early they will be very hard to roid late game

Peacekeepers, like most of the off class def ships are useful for alliances that fortgal

the option that 3 pod classes give you is that if your starting strat doesn't work, you can change it and still have a good amount of options for your whole alliance to make the switch

I think moving ship covop much further back is a good idea, i think with the change to gal funds, res hack is less useful than it was, so a swap would work there.
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 07:26   #59
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

I realise that terran is a defensive race. But in practice people look at the initiatives when deciding the utility of a fleet. And unfortunately for stats makers initiative is as relevant for defence as for the attack. Terran can get away without having the initiative over everything if it can sensibly build themselves into little fr/de forts and become unattackable. But as one of the principles of this set is that fr and de dont fire on each other Terran can no more easily do this than other races. Their emp res and armour is useful but hardly sufficient compensation. Even this seems to fall down a bit when it comes to fi; why would anyone want ter fi to do damage soaking not etd fi, armour of 500 against 484 is not very worthwhile when the etd is so much more useful otherwise. And lets be honest most players dont want to soak up damage on the offensive due to the score loss that means you are taking.
You have reduced them to the role of def planet and fast amp scanner - and perhaps as you say kamikaze. Which is not great for balance.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 08:30   #60
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Why have such big cost differences in ships of the same class, thats just gonna screw up some people in mixed race team up battles.

Etd fi/ xan fi will probably be quite common and with equal value fleet xan will take over double the value in losses in battles.
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 09:50   #61
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Why have such big cost differences in ships of the same class, thats just gonna screw up some people in mixed race team up battles.

Etd fi/ xan fi will probably be quite common and with equal value fleet xan will take over double the value in losses in battles.
thats the trade off of going xan
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 10:29   #62
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

If your saying anything else than 90% of the uni going FI you are lying blue_esper.
The problem with these stats so far dont open for anything else.
131% eff on average for a ST beetle? Rofl
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 10:44   #63
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

beets are getting a boost but fi isn't that great
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 10:45   #64
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

infact the more fi there is the less fi will land
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 10:55   #65
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
thats the trade off of going xan
Its same for terran fi teaming up with etd fi.
And to a lesser extent etd bs with terran bs plus some others.
also is something most people wont know about untill its too late. Only visible in bcalcs.
xan having crappy ac is fine, if they take more losses in teamups because of the crappy ac thats also fine and everyone can see that, but with the costs difference on fi they take far more shots and take far more damage.
also means bringing etd fi or terran fi along for flak is a lot less usefull.

and yes, it would be nice to improve beetle, with xan fr best way to stop xan fi, theres risk of a very xan heavy round.
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:14   #66
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Nobody in their right minds are landing red def calcs, or red att calcs, even if xan loses more on the calc it dosnt mean its happening.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:18   #67
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
infact the more fi there is the less fi will land
If fi hit other fi I could see the logic but it does not so I am not seeing where you are coming from, mind explaining?

At the moment I tend to agree that fi is the most obvious choice.

And I also agree with shhh that you are likely to have a lot of disgruntled players who have not noticed the impact that the cost difference has before choosing. Certainly when shhhh mentioned it I thought "surely not!" But having done a couple of bcalcs it is indeed the case. If it catches out someone who has been voicing opinions on the ship stats for years it is likely to catch out quite a few people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Nobody in their right minds are landing red def calcs, or red att calcs, even if xan loses more on the calc it dosnt mean its happening.
Plenty of planets play xp. And the cost differential has problems even on a green calc; the xan may well be losing even on a green calc with a team up with their partner much more in green to make up the difference. This I would think is more of a problem than red calcs.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:26   #68
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
If fi hit other fi I could see the logic but it does not so I am not seeing where you are coming from, mind explaining?

At the moment I tend to agree that fi is the most obvious choice.
the more fi planets mean more anti fi so more of the following: Pegasus, Chimera, Vsharrak, Executive, Investor.

more people going xan means more vsh
more going etd means more exec
effectively cancelling itself out

anyway i mailed appocco the following to change so you guys are in the loop:

Distributor: crystal to 400 eonium to 450, Broker crystal to 130 eonium to 100
Buccaneer: metal to 380 Eonium to 300, Corsair: metal to 160 eonium to 110, Marauder Metal to 4000 Eonium to 3000
Blackwidow Cystal to 330 Metal to 360
also perhaps a slight boost to beetles EMP eff +10% ish
and phantom t2 to banshee t2
and pegs init 5
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:30   #69
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

fi is rather weak and wont win you the round i dont see the strength?

co and de are dominant over fi
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:34   #70
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

anyway still got a few days to tweak it, but would have preferred this input when the stats were up beforehand
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:35   #71
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

I'll leave the cost changes to shhh to look at but
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
also perhaps a slight boost to beetles EMP eff +10% ish
and phantom t2 to banshee t2
and pegs init 5
Looks good, probably makes a big difference, ter becomes much more worthwhile while making fi more of a risk. Beetle eff increase I think makes a difference in the co over fi as you say, thought it too low to actually have the effect of really enabling co to dominate fi as you ment ironed before. Don't have time to take a more in depth look now, possibly this evening.

Edit; btw I don't actually have a problem with the cost thing, as you mention it is a potentially interesting disadvantage for xan. But I think it needs to be signposted somehow to give players who don't read this forum the heads up. Perhaps apoco could mention it somewhere if it ends up the case.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:39   #72
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
fi is rather weak and wont win you the round i dont see the strength?

co and de are dominant over fi
This is a lie, and you know it.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:46   #73
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This is a lie, and you know it.
run the calcs
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 11:59   #74
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Xan are cloacked. It will be 3x troll fleeters from ODDR/HODOR/Norsemen/Minions every day, and brazillians playing XP.
Troll tags is the new meta, giving a 10 man tag the option to empty out a 60 man CO tag for anti FI def isnt the way to go
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 12:17   #75
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

With the xan fi targetting changes and pegasus init 5, xan fi is fine.
You can 3 fleet attack with them all day but enough effective ways to stop it now.
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 13:34   #76
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Xan are cloacked. It will be 3x troll fleeters from ODDR/HODOR/Norsemen/Minions every day, and brazillians playing XP.
Troll tags is the new meta, giving a 10 man tag the option to empty out a 60 man CO tag for anti FI def isnt the way to go
thats the option for troll tags and an added risk for larger tags to worry about, nothing to do with stats
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 14:07   #77
Joseph
Error
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 356
Joseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really nice
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

the game must admit smaller tags, as long as they cant win, they should be able to play for another goal, and still have fun.

and i agree with blue, nothing to do with stats, they will first look who they want to hit, then wait that ally strat, then take the class that hurts them most. no matter what kind of stats.
__________________
#braSilFTW
Joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 14:40   #78
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

I think pegasus init 5 is overcompensating a bit, giving them superiour init vs all ally def kill ships, with still having good ac dc and emp res.
maybe lower their damage a bit?
but at least there is no doubt terrans are a good option now.
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 14:48   #79
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
I think pegasus init 5 is overcompensating a bit, giving them superiour init vs all ally def kill ships, with still having good ac dc and emp res.
maybe lower their damage a bit?
but at least there is no doubt terrans are a good option now.
It still dosnt make em stop xan FI
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:04   #80
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Dunno if theres an unspoken rule yet about replying to your posts, but shooting at xanfi with better init and enough damage to kill over 100% in value is enough to be able to say pegasus stop xan fi with these changes.

It doesnt make xanfi unplayable , maybe thats what you are aiming for with 'stopping' xan fi?
but the pegasus, plus init 6 anti de instead of init 4 on the xan fi together makes it so xan fi is playable and enjoyable but not the obvious first choice.
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:07   #81
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Dunno if theres an unspoken rule yet about replying to your posts, but shooting at xanfi with better init and enough damage to kill over 100% in value is enough to be able to say pegasus stop xan fi with these changes.

It doesnt make xanfi unplayable , maybe thats what you are aiming for with 'stopping' xan fi?
but the pegasus, plus init 6 anti de instead of init 4 on the xan fi together makes it so xan fi is playable and enjoyable but not the obvious first choice.
Aha, but pegasus is a FR, i was looking at the chimera...
Sorry
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:12   #82
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

T1 and T2 on the Viper should be considered changed.
And i think on average at 140% is a little bit underwhelming? I thought the normal average emp eff in stats was far higher than this?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:26   #83
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
T1 and T2 on the Viper should be considered changed.
And i think on average at 140% is a little bit underwhelming? I thought the normal average emp eff in stats was far higher than this?
why should it be? provide a reason.

many moons ago emp was hovering around 120% only the last 10 or so rounds have we seen 150%+
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:31   #84
Joseph
Error
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 356
Joseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really nice
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

u still making changes in stats?
i thought they are done.
__________________
#braSilFTW
Joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:33   #85
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

some slight modifications now that i am getting some feedback.
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:57   #86
gallzilla
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 29
gallzilla is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

ill have to wait for the changes to go into effect to run some bcalcs but those changes look good to me. Terran wont be roided into oblivion by mass fi making them useful.
Xan are still strong and having 3 invis fake options is always going to be strong offensively however can be stopped now.


small note that "ants' are completly useless. E/R currently of 15 is less than any other fi so doesnt flak well and beets emp it first
gallzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 15:59   #87
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

ants are for fr/de based planets
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 16:27   #88
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallzilla View Post

small note that "ants' are completly useless. E/R currently of 15 is less than any other fi so doesnt flak well and beets emp it first
E/R by itself means nothing, its costs of the ships that end up determining efficiency.
ant is cheaper than other fi, its actually amongst the toughest fi to freeze and with their low costs it does flak well. (Takes more shots because of higher shipnumbers in equal value fleet)

Ofc with worse init than beetles it is crappy vs cath co, works fine vs zik co.
Maybe you can get away with not having ally def anti co as cath, but completely useless seems wrong, caths are better with having the option of building ants.

They are kinda stuck tho, raising guns by 1 makes them too strong, making them normal kill ship makes them just worse version of other fi anti co. Making them steal would be fun, but too big of a change i guess.
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 17:19   #89
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
why should it be? provide a reason.

many moons ago emp was hovering around 120% only the last 10 or so rounds have we seen 150%+
Because if you wish to attack one of the FR races you will need to be twice their value baiscly to land without losses.
That pegasus has the same effeciency as vipers basicly tells me you surely cant be playing cath very often?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 17:26   #90
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Because if you wish to attack one of the FR races you will need to be twice their value baiscly to land without losses.
That pegasus has the same effeciency as vipers basicly tells me you surely cant be playing cath very often?
Corsair t2 to fr would solve that issue
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 17:31   #91
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

but im reluctant to make that change as it would make co too strong
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 18:14   #92
Shhhhhhh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 296
Shhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to allShhhhhhh is a name known to all
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
How teh f*** would that solve the issue? They have init 21?
Plz double check the shipstats before posting with such certainty.

and changing corsair just leads to even more changes needed all starting with pegasus lower init.
maybe keeping it higher but still switching xan fi targetting so their anti fr, de is init 6 is enough?
Shhhhhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2015, 23:50   #93
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

if you're giving etd the chance to steal, might aswell steal something worthwhile: distributor should steal something on their attack fleets.
Stealing CR adds nothing to etd, besides some more junk ships (same to dealer but that's another issue).
you could turn distributor to t1 BS and drop t2 on dealer.
as it is, peddler already fires 1st than dealer on BS and with better init.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 00:00   #94
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

ETD wont steal something that can steal something else.
Dealer and disturbor will be edited to normal or switch target.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 00:06   #95
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

The change of t2 targetting between banshee and phantom and the change on pegasus basicly removes 2 targets for Xan FI: Ter and Etd.
While i do like the change (Ofc, i don't intend to play Xan), might make Xan FI underpowered, seeing as they can only solo Zik now, while they could solo Zik, Ter and Etd.
Also it opens xan to Ter FR until Xan get siege, which usually happens late in the game, due to their slow research. i think it underpowers xan a bit.
But obviously you already saw that.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 03:01   #96
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by lince View Post
if you're giving etd the chance to steal, might aswell steal something worthwhile: distributor should steal something on their attack fleets.
Stealing CR adds nothing to etd, besides some more junk ships (same to dealer but that's another issue).
you could turn distributor to t1 BS and drop t2 on dealer.
as it is, peddler already fires 1st than dealer on BS and with better init.
i dunno about you but tycoons make pretty good attack ships, distributors wont change, they make good def ships and would be very handy on fake attacks
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 03:19   #97
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by lince View Post
The change of t2 targetting between banshee and phantom and the change on pegasus basicly removes 2 targets for Xan FI: Ter and Etd.
While i do like the change (Ofc, i don't intend to play Xan), might make Xan FI underpowered, seeing as they can only solo Zik now, while they could solo Zik, Ter and Etd.
Also it opens xan to Ter FR until Xan get siege, which usually happens late in the game, due to their slow research. i think it underpowers xan a bit.
But obviously you already saw that.
Xan can still roid into Cath's given the eff of the beetle. Also remember Value, fakes, retals all add to the power of xan. If you are worried about Fr stopping xan fi then just team with etd Fi it emps the shit out of them. Xan honestly don't NEED overpower fleets to roid insanely they just need to be able to roid 1 or 2 races solidly and everything else is just throwing value/fakes/teamups into them.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 03:30   #98
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post

and phantom t2 to banshee t2
and pegs init 5


You prolly should also move the T2 from Peg to one of the other Fr so that Ter isnt the defacto anti fi/co race in the uni, just like xan is and honestly I think you should drop the E/R on the Peg to counter the fact that its emp'd at 141% while other races are hit 175%(xan) 155%(zik) It's still a strong counter just make it less of a "I win ship" And actually I think you should swap the targeting on for xan Fr.
Vshh T1 Co Reaper T2 Fi same init. This adds strength to the Fr Team while at the same time making Xan not a strong counter to other xans.

Also in line with these changes I would make Reaper init 8 or Dev init 6. Depending if you want Ter stronger or Xan Weaker.

This change to the Fr class gives a need for Ter and Xan into the Fr Teamup one being strong vs Fi other being strong vs Co while both races having to build value into 2 other Fr. Zik Fr still got its problems I think the high init kill ship should be vs BS and steal vs Cr. As you can see I have many issues with these stats but i think they are 5x farther than Booji's Blue_Esper if you want to talk to me about changes let me know there are many different things you can do make these stats a bit better.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 03:35   #99
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,717
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
honestly I think you should drop the E/R on the Peg to counter the fact that its emp'd at 141% while other races are hit 175%(xan) 155%(zik) It's still a strong counter just make it less of a "I win ship" And actually I think you should swap the targeting on for xan Fr. .
What stats are you looking at?
Tulas got 120% eff on ter FR, and 152% on xan FR? I dont think ive witnessed any worse EMP eff than this
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2015, 03:43   #100
Joseph
Error
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 356
Joseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really nice
Re: Blue's Stat Set Rnd 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
Final changes have been made and i wont be touching them. handing over to whoever else has a set, good luck!
no need for changes...
__________________
#braSilFTW
Joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2018