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29 Dec 2009, 19:52
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#251
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Round 34 Stats
why not shift the marauder to beeing a steal ship
imo 2 good kill ships is enough for zik
also it would weaken a very strong zik cr fleet
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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29 Dec 2009, 20:00
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#252
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Well, that would mean zik cr can only roid cath then. Which would suck for both cath and zik.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2009, 20:24
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#253
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self-entitledly superior
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
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Re: Round 34 Stats
I'm pro changing clipper.
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29 Dec 2009, 20:36
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#254
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Round 34 Stats
I changed clipper and phoenix by the way.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Dec 2009, 23:24
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#255
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The Holy Goose
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 46
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Stats look quite good to be honest, well done JBG.
Might be some minor tweaks done, but I'm sure the round will be interesting.
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30 Dec 2009, 01:19
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#256
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Round 34 Stats
At first glance ETD is the only race able to cover all incs by building both his attack fleets (DE-BS).
With two 0 loss def ships (lancer vs Cath FI and Dreadnaught vs Ter DE).
The smuggler hidden in a BS fleet could surprise some Xan targets and steal some useful Xan DE.
One of their BS being cloaked will reduce their chance to fake fleets and Zik look their biggest problem in def : the pillager a 0 loss steal vs Etd DE though slower and the Pirate init advantage vs the BS.
Overall it looks the best choice for solo players, and I like it.
On a general note, r35 won't be heavy in fico which is a welcome change. The resurgence of 0 loss def ships and the need to build more different ship types opens up for more strategy. Making r35 worth playing. Good job.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Last edited by Makhil; 30 Dec 2009 at 05:52.
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30 Dec 2009, 08:57
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#257
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self-entitledly superior
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
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Re: Round 34 Stats
JBG has an annoying tendency to make me play. I wasn't supposed to play next round but there's enough variation here to reconsider the situation
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30 Dec 2009, 12:59
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#258
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Retired
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 61
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Nice stats for fortress playing
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30 Dec 2009, 13:37
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#259
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Alive and kicking
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
Posts: 220
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Single targetting has always been a failure and I don't see any reason why it would be successfull now.
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30 Dec 2009, 14:38
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#260
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
Single targetting has always been a failure and I don't see any reason why it would be successfull now.
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I like how you used some examples of rounds and situations in which it had "failed", along with a set of well-defined criteria for "success" in this post. Keep up the good work!
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31 Dec 2009, 00:03
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#261
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Round 34 Stats
The Stats for r14 have been the most enjoyable stats I have played
(single targetting, every race had at least 1 steal ship, stealers didnt die)
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2 Jan 2010, 16:52
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#262
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Retired
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 61
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well, that would mean zik cr can only roid cath then. Which would suck for both cath and zik.
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So it's better to keep in its current form so it can roid everyone?
Last edited by Kafir; 2 Jan 2010 at 17:00.
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2 Jan 2010, 17:17
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#263
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafir
So it's better to keep in its current form so it can roid everyone?
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Well, ignoring the fact that it can't actually roid terran, and it'll have difficulty roiding xan fr (which should be very common) and zik fr (probably somewhat less common) yeah, it makes sense to keep in its current format.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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2 Jan 2010, 17:18
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#264
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 499
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Re: Round 34 Stats
urrr yea, zik cr is pretty retardedly good, 2 kill ships at low inits make them almost impossible to stop by anything but widows efficiently, chims do ok but how many of them are actually going to be built/available for defence? Change mara to a steal ship or pirate to init 5 and peacekeeper to init 4 or give xan something that can actually hit zik cr properly, there needs to be at least a chance to stop the retarded amounts of zik cr thats inevitably going to be built with these stats.
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Founder and HC of [Denial] and [Evolution]
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2 Jan 2010, 17:21
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#265
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 499
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well, ignoring the fact that it can't actually roid terran, and it'll have difficulty roiding xan fr (which should be very common) and zik fr (probably somewhat less common) yeah, it makes sense to keep in its current format.
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What dificulty? obviously ziks will go heavy on mara/pirates and neglect pillagers a bit (and neglect buccs) , so dealing with fr isn't going to be a problem if ur hitting someone that doesn't enjoy losing over half their fleet before firing back.
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Founder and HC of [Denial] and [Evolution]
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2 Jan 2010, 17:34
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#266
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenoX
What dificulty? obviously ziks will go heavy on mara/pirates and neglect pillagers a bit (and neglect buccs) , so dealing with fr isn't going to be a problem if ur hitting someone that doesn't enjoy losing over half their fleet before firing back.
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Well, no.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=2wlw6xfq23bxvep
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8eciwo8py16n5yt (more of a disgusting battle than anything else but it's hardly something most people would launch)
That'd be a fairly realistic calc in my opinion. Fair enough if people go massively mara/pirate heavy and ignore most of their other ships just to be an offensive machine then they're going to be able to roid others with more ease. I'm pretty sure that's why people wanted single-targeting back though. My view is that with the amount of potential flak available in fr class ships, and given the two tick element involved in potential fr def and the low efficiency of the mara, zik cr ( in the context of zikonian as a whole) is not overpowered. If you disagree with me you're welcome to go bother appoco and see if he'll change it for you. If not, I'd advise you to go for zik cr!
Quote:
chims do ok but how many of them are actually going to be built/available for defence?
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Considering they're terran's only anti-cr I'd imagine there'd probably be a fair few of them built. Their availability for def will depend on a bunch of factors I guess. I don't see why they wouldn't be available for def in a competent alliance though. If everyone goes attacking with anything that resembles a roiding fleet every night they won't be obviously but in that case the problem is related more to a) your alliance and b) single targeting than anything particular to do with the actual stats.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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4 Jan 2010, 05:12
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#267
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Canadian to the Core
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,004
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
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Uh, all your doing by sending clippers to attack is asking the defense to nuke the attacking clippers with 0 losses.
Would you land either of those attacks with no CR damage but losing all your clippers? I doubt it.
I really don't think zik as a whole is OP though, Zik CR is likely one of the best attacking classes but if you ever crash it you're in deep deep trouble.
The stats as a whole are rather balanced, but do to the playstyles I expect to happen this round, a lot of the counter races aren't going to be played in a counter fashion.
IE, what's zik's biggest weakness?
__________________
[DTA] Forever
r2-5 [LOST] - r6 [Instinct] - r7-8 [Titans] -r9 [Olympians] -DC
r10 [Elysium] -DC - r11-12 [MISTU] -DC/IA - r13-15 [Angels] - DC
r18-19 [eXi]
<Intermission>
r31-32 [CT] - r33-35 [DLR] - r36 [VsN] - r37 [???]
r45-46 [FAnG]
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4 Jan 2010, 05:19
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#268
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi_K
Uh, all your doing by sending clippers to attack is asking the defense to nuke the attacking clippers with 0 losses.
Would you land either of those attacks with no CR damage but losing all your clippers? I doubt it.
I really don't think zik as a whole is OP though, Zik CR is likely one of the best attacking classes but if you ever crash it you're in deep deep trouble.
The stats as a whole are rather balanced, but do to the playstyles I expect to happen this round, a lot of the counter races aren't going to be played in a counter fashion.
IE, what's zik's biggest weakness?
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Er, sorry about the clippers thing. I noticed that later on and realised my calc was therefore fairly off, I'd just been adding zik cr by numbers down and started off one too far up!
So it's really something like http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=77avxo5y8jzd2pg (still not wtf awesome for zik).
For the record I consulted appoco and the spirit got added to xan, providing a reasonable, albeit expensive, counter to zik cr for xan. Zik's biggest weakness is probably cath fi or ter de/de teamups in my opinion.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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4 Jan 2010, 14:45
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#269
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Your calcs were originally correct, but the addition of the Spirit probably gives every ship behind it +1 in sort number/row id (or whatever you wanna call it)
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4 Jan 2010, 20:53
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#270
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 151
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't think single-targeting rounds were more boring than multi-targeting ones. If anything I would have said the opposite as recent rounds just became a case of get as much brute force together as you can and overwhelm the opposition with fi/co or cr/bs teamups where you pretty much have every ship that is available involved. I certainly don't think one round of it would be less challenging as everyone would have to adjust their strategy etc. I mean one round dude, we've played 11 rounds this way, if it was that boring from r11-23 I'm pretty sure we'd remember it for being appallingly shit.
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I couldn't agree more
Some of my favorite rounds have been with single targeting - I always felt the multi targeting ruined a certain ammount of fake tactics.
Can someone post here the latest stats
I may even play this round now
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4 Jan 2010, 21:00
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#271
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Round 34 Stats
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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5 Jan 2010, 11:00
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#272
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Kwaak
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 296
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Thank you for the stats JBG, I like them. I think ingal def will be increasingly important due to the higher eta of most of the 0 loss def, unless it will be a cr/bs round.
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5 Jan 2010, 11:37
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#273
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Bibliophile
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Well done, JBG. I like the stats as well and i certainly hope you continue doing them as like your sets much more then anyone's else. Big thank you.
__________________
r16-r18 - ROCK
r19-r21 - Subh
r22 - TGV
r24-r26 Vengeance
r27-r29 - Ascendancy
r30 - r35 - New Dawn
r36 -r37 - Euphoria
r43 - r46 - New Dawn
r47 - r51 - Ultores
r67 - - New Dawn
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17 Jan 2010, 19:39
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#274
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: Round 34 Stats
I'm absolutly loving these stats so far.
Been roided down to the ground twice but also able to roid everyone else down to the ground with little value
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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17 Jan 2010, 21:07
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#275
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: Round 34 Stats
I'm having a pretty good time as well tbh.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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18 Jan 2010, 05:31
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#276
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: Round 34 Stats
anyone without ready access to defence feels unusually hopeless, although i kno its an illusion that in normal stats u can defend urself; u can at least prevent the continual streams of one race/class taking ur roids by shifting the balance of ur fleet.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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18 Jan 2010, 16:11
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#277
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: Round 34 Stats
I dont like Roidswappingtarion.
Can we play planetarion again next round?
thanks!
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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18 Jan 2010, 17:11
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#278
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Knight of Ni!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo Norway
Posts: 298
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Re: Round 34 Stats
its a bit fun, but its to extreme.
i want to play planetarion again aswell.
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18 Jan 2010, 17:30
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#279
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fanboy
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 492
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Re: Round 34 Stats
I absolutely love these stats. First time I've found PA fun (except for covopping) for over a year.
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Ascendancy, former [ 1UP] & Ministry.
FOUNDER OF THE OFFICIAL ASCENDANCY LADY GAGA FAN CLUB
ASCENDANCY DEMOLITION MAN
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19 Jan 2010, 11:58
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#280
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zawze^asc
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norway.
Posts: 87
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Re: Round 34 Stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
I absolutely love these stats. First time I've found PA fun (except for covopping) for over a year.
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and I got lured into covopping this round! :O
__________________
"Facts are just opinions, and opinons can be wrong, the only thing that's never wrong is confidence."
- Veronica Palmer, Better Off Ted
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