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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 04:45   #1
s|k
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A British and American cultural conflict

Please don't make this thread into something US vs British, that's not the purpose of it.

I've noticed this now in other places besides GD/Netgamers. I can only explain it from my point of view, and it occurs to me like this:
British, especially educated ones, are very pushy, abrupt, uncivil, arrogant and direct in their manner of speaking, and often sarcastic and cynical. Please understand that I'm just explaining it from my American point of view, and that I don't think people try to be uncivil intentionally. Further from my perspective it seems as if people in the UK are not making the effort to provide common courtesy. I imagine that, maybe, from a British perspective common courtesy seems like a waste of time, unecessary hand holding when you just want to make a point.

I think this explains my hostility a lot of the time, especially against yahwe and mrl_jakiri (who really has been overtly offensive a lot of the time, and borderline other times).

I believe that this is an unbreakable, irreconcilable difference. The tiny amount of effort it takes to be courteous to others in everything you do seems integral to me and I imagine incomprehensibly burdensome to some of you.

I realize I'm generalizing, please forgive me. Next time I blow up on one of you, which is bound to happen, please excuse me. There's nothing worse for me than someone who is more knowledgeable than I am on a topic to sit there and rub it in, and be obnoxiously arrogant and brazen about it, it' so much of a taboo to be so smug and self confident in non-elite America that if someone were to do it in a one and one encounter, don't be surprised to be choked to death, or severely censured in some way or another.

EDIT: I know this doesn't explain when I get angry with dda, I don't deny that I have anger issues.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 06:32   #2
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I've noticed this now in other places besides GD/Netgamers. I can only explain it from my point of view, and it occurs to me like this:
British, especially educated ones, are very pushy, abrupt, uncivil, arrogant and direct in their manner of speaking, and often sarcastic and cynical. Please understand that I'm just explaining it from my American point of view, and that I don't think people try to be uncivil intentionally. Further from my perspective it seems as if people in the UK are not making the effort to provide common courtesy. I imagine that, maybe, from a British perspective common courtesy seems like a waste of time, unecessary hand holding when you just want to make a point.
It's just a difference in etiquette, and the gulf is probably not as broad as you imagine. What is important to remember is that a forum tends towards intensifying our perception of eachother.

There is however, as you said, a greater cynicism among Britons than Americans (particularly in relation to politics and religion). Is this unwarranted, or disadvantageous? Yes, the spirit and idea amid which Britain was born was destroyed long ago (and has been many times since) and somehow we've ended up with little more than an atmosphere of in-jokes and sneering. Is this unhealthy? On a national scale, disregarding the world as a whole, I'd support the notion that we may be better off if a lot of people were a lot more cynical about what happens around us.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 08:00   #3
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I think this explains my hostility a lot of the time, especially against yahwe and mrl_jakiri (who really has been overtly offensive a lot of the time, and borderline other times).
Yahwe is a one off case.

MrL_Jakiri doesn't have a degree, so referring to him as "educated" isn't really accurate - he just has a mass of general knowledge.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 08:22   #4
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
MrL_Jakiri doesn't have a degree, so referring to him as "educated" isn't really accurate
I have a Bachelor's of Art and am attending graduate school, and I know, that there are 12 year olds in elite private schools that are more educated than I am and many here. A degree isn't meaningless, no I'm not saying that at all, but whatever constitutes 'educated,' I know that I am not it. My point is that a piece of paper isn't the end all be all of designating who is educated and who isn't.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 09:35   #5
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

I've found countries with English as their primary language to be more polite in general than those which don't. This is mainly due to the use of language (e.g. indirect questions - we say things like "Do you mind if I ask why you decided to change your opening hours", others seem to say "Why did you change your opening hours?" - which to a native English speaker sounds more hostile).

As for America vs Britain I'm not really sure I agree. Perhaps fools are suffered less gladly by "educated" Britons, but then again random descriptions / desire for violence would be seen as fairly unacceptable in general conversation where you seem to think it's perfectly normal. As a general rule, I would never try to speak authoratively about something I knew nothing about, and if I did then I'd expect to be smacked down if I was talking shit. This is why I normally prefix things with "Well, from the little I know..." or "In my personal experience", etc, etc.

In any case, you're talking about on-line communication for the most part, which isn't how all people communicate in real-life. It's almost acceptable to call someone an idiot if their first post on a forum was utterly dire, yet most people wouldn't do that in everyday life. More than this, some of the people here are talking to others they've known for years. The way you interact with people over such a period is bound to change.

Also, we're dealing with quite small segments of the population here anyway. There's a gulf of difference in the behaviour of (say) djbass and Shaigar from Oz, Yahwe and Ste or Tact and QazokRogue5.

As for "non-Elite" America, I don't know. Most of the American's I've met (admittedly usually through university where they would have come from Ivy League schools etc) have been very "elitist" - albeit about wealth and current status rather than upbringing / social origin (what we generally refer to as 'class').

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
MrL_Jakiri doesn't have a degree, so referring to him as "educated" isn't really accurate
To bastardise Twain, don't confuse schooling with education. Although MrL has had plenty of schooling too, so the lack of degree (so far) is pretty much irrelevent.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 10:21   #6
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

In my experience I've found British people far more courteous than Americans. To pointlessly generalise a little bit further I've also found that Americans are more friendly than British people when you first meet them and less reserved. The complete surrealness of
Quote:
The tiny amount of effort it takes to be courteous to others in everything you do seems integral to me and I imagine incomprehensibly burdensome to some of you.
considering
Quote:
I think this explains my hostility a lot of the time, especially against yahwe and mrl_jakiri
is confusing at best. Or are you only automatically and unfailingly courteous towards people you've just met until you've formed an opinion on them? Answers on a postcard!
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 11:30   #7
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Basing your opinion of an entire nation on the users of GD is not a good idea imo.

The 'wide divide' of courtesy you talk of doesnt exist. If anything we are far more courteous than Americans. British sensibilities and all that.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 12:43   #8
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
MrL_Jakiri doesn't have a degree, so referring to him as "educated" isn't really accurate .
quoting this for the sheer absurdity.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 12:44   #9
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Thats beause you dont have a degree either dumb dumb.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 12:48   #10
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
anger issues.
and the marines is a good way to get rid of that anger....
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 17:25   #11
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Exclamation Re: A British and American cultural conflict

ITT, I agree with Nodrog.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 18:26   #12
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
In any case, you're talking about on-line communication for the most part, which isn't how all people communicate in real-life.
This gave the the image in my head of a 1-year-old (or whatever) getting taunted and shouted at after having said his first words.
Anyway, a very important point, that. Most "higher-education" Americans I've run into on the net can be really arrogant and uncivil. I can't imagine people behaving like that in real life.

As for what you say about non-English people being less polite - there might a lot of truth in that. I remember back in school we were told how important words and expressions like "please", "would you mind" and so on was very important in English.

My dad's been in the US a few times, he is always surprised (and somewhat amused, I think) at how the employees in shops are overly nice and eager to please. Civil to the point where it starts to become parodic.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 18:27   #13
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

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Originally Posted by s|k
I've noticed this now in other places besides GD/Netgamers.
Oh s|k, did you wander into another forum for adults and get asked to leave by the smelly europeans?
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 19:55   #14
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

America has an inferiority complex.

This is why we want everyone to love us.

When someone doesn't love us, especially if they are from another country, we become confused and frustrated. We then see hostility where none may be meant.*






*However, being called an idiot or knocking down one of our large buildings probably IS correctly interpreted as hostility.
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Unread 12 Dec 2005, 20:11   #15
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
I'm pretty sure it's britain that has an inferiority complex.
If not our is certainly bigger than yours
(lolz)
Your just saying that to make us feel inferior.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 02:29   #16
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

this thread is why i miss GD
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 02:50   #17
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

In my day, people who bumped month old threads to add a single line of irrelevant commentary were banned.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 02:59   #18
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

the elderly are afforded special dispensation in all cultures.

similarly the young sarcastic twats live lives of solitude.

[edit] P.S. how are you gordon?
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 03:06   #19
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

DON'T BUMP THREADS*



*unless they're mine and they're as good as this one!
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 03:10   #20
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

let's not get carried away ....
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 04:33   #21
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

I nearly punched an american marine the other day. Ive never been spoken to so rude in my whole life. He was with some Japanese friends and obviously spoke a good level of Japanese (which I don't). Anyway after some cheering on of him playing darts (he gave a few damn good shots) I started chatting to him, and he was all very friendly enough. Then I started speaking to his Japanese friends, admittedly in really bad Japanese, and he just suddenly clammed up. He was with a girl who might have been his girlfriend, or maybe he was trying to get in there (I think this was more likely). Anyhow, sensing the awkwardness my moves had made to the group I thought I'd start talking to him again, and he just completely ignores me! The bar was loud so I think maybe the guy hasn't heard me, so I tap him on the shoulder and say 'So, really, where are you from?'. At which point his slaps my hand and goes, don't touch me, alright, in a real fronty aggressive manner.

How someone could go from such friendliness to complete hostility in such a short amount of time is completely beyond me, I felt like punching the guy!

Another American I know over here is all over you with emails and phone calls when she has no plans, yet as soon as she gets another offer in any description, completely ignores you.

A third American (don't get me wrong, I call this guy a friend) is a complete boorish lout when he gets drunk. He gets super aggressive and says the most innapropriate stuff, that could never be described as humourous. Nice guy, I'd just rather stay away from him when he's drunk...

Soooooo I've not had the best experience of Americans to date....
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 04:34   #22
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

The British are more confrontational than Americans.

Americans, (most of them) are taught to turn the other cheek and avoid confrontation, or in our eyes embarrassment, at all costs.

It's merely a difference in upbringing, but I don't really understand why the British despise Americans SO much. Most Americans have a healthy respect for the British and consider them, for lack of a better word (friends doesn't quite fit here), allies.

Given my past dealings however,British are quite bland and open mouthed about what they think about a situation. For example we met a British pilot that worked for United and he was possibly the most upfront man I have ever met. He said to one guy: "Lad yer trusers are down, everyone can see your goods."

Whereas an American probably would have pulled him to the side, or made a subtle hint that his zipper was down.

I don't know why they hate us so much, it's not like we are the Germans who attacked them for 10 years in a span of 4 decades.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 04:43   #23
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

thats a scot, as demonstrated by "lad" , "yer" , but mostly the "troosers"
generally, i find americans to be more upfront then the english. scots will gladly tell you when youve screwed up somewhere with zeal, and probably poke a joke at you for a week or so depending on the significance of the cockup

despise isnt the best word to describe it. "friendly rivalry" would be better. banter, etc.
its the same deal between scots and english, and the english and french, and english and germans ( especially when sports are involved )
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 05:02   #24
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Otherwise put, the Scots are miserable bastards that hate everyone, including themselves

"What, yer fae Edinbuh? Yer English yer ****!!!"
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 05:11   #25
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

hehe there is a little bit of friendly banter between the different regions
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 05:15   #26
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
The British are more confrontational than Americans.
HOW CURIOUS

i've been away for weeks, yet you haven't bothered to spend that time becoming more coherent.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 05:25   #27
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

I don't know why they hate us so much, it's not like we are the Germans who attacked them for 10 years in a span of 4 decades.
The Germans now show a great deal of humility, something Americans cant comprehend.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 08:03   #28
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

What's worse than bumping a thread? Replying to a thread as if it hadn't been bumped.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 14:53   #29
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
What's worse than bumping a thread? Replying to a thread as if it hadn't been bumped.
I heard threads lose all relevance after five days and theres nothing more anyone can say in them
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 14:55   #30
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by eJohn
I heard threads lose all relevance after five days and theres nothing more anyone can say in them
I'm not sure that this thread had any relevance to anything.


Ever.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 15:04   #31
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
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I heard threads lose all relevance after five days and theres nothing more anyone can say in them
People make closure with threads. Bumping them reopens coagulated wounds.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 15:07   #32
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
People make closure with threads. Bumping them reopens coagulated wounds.
This didnt make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I'm not sure that this thread had any relevance to anything.


Ever.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 15:21   #33
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

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People make closure with threads.
If only this were true we'd all be emotionally healthier human beings.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 22:23   #34
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
People make closure with threads.
So that's why nanas are so nice...
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 22:25   #35
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
The British are more confrontational than Americans.

Americans, (most of them) are taught to turn the other cheek and avoid confrontation, or in our eyes embarrassment, at all costs.
America has a contrasting view to the rest of the world AGAIN shocker.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 01:55   #36
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
The British are more confrontational than Americans.

Americans, (most of them) are taught to turn the other cheek and avoid confrontation, or in our eyes embarrassment, at all costs.
Bullshit.

The JAPANESE are taught to turn the other cheek and avoid confrontation and embarrasment at all costs... This is why Ive seen stuff like foreigners who agressively hit on every girl and wonder why its easy to score, why theres such high suicide rates in schools from bullying. Why someone can turn round and say a barefaced lie to a group of people, and everyone will agree with him. Suck it up with their 'ganbarre' sprit (spirit of perserverance). Which is why, externally, their culture is so peaceful, all conflict is turned inwards.

In comparison, Americans and British are taught to speak our minds, get things off our chest. Case in point; your talking about this stuff on an internet forum, and proposing an opinion, this simple act dispels everything you tried to propose. This action would be seen as rather arrogant over here.

This is why in America and Britain all go round and kill, rape, murder, steal etc off each other. Our internal peace is saved, at the expense of external conflict.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 01:59   #37
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunderbunny
This is why in America and Britain all go round and kill, rape, murder, steal etc off each other. Our internal peace is saved, at the expense of external conflict.
I think it's utterly charming how each of our appalling posters acquires a new and specific niche or standpoint from which to disseminate utter rubbish.

step forward the (unforseeably odd) japanese-ophile.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 02:51   #38
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

I think the main cause for any British American cultural difference is the fact that we (the Brittish) have a vast and proud history spanning thousands of years, wheras I have been drinking in pubs that have a longer history than the good ol' US of A.
Basically it boils down to the fact that we have a culture, and, bless them, North America hasn't yet developed one of their own.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 02:53   #39
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
japanese-ophile.
What the **** is your problem? I swear I'm going to register this forum as an Internet hate group with the UK government if the mods don't start dealing with the rampant racism on these boards.*













*That's probably not possible, but I would if it were. :/
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 02:58   #40
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

I'm sorry to say this s&k, but all yahwe actaully said was that chunderbunny love the Japanese, and I think thats probably true, don't you?
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 02:59   #41
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
What the **** is your problem? I swear I'm going to register this forum as an Internet hate group with the UK government if the mods don't start dealing with the rampant racism on these boards.*
what
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 03:01   #42
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

s|k in taking everything personally complete non-shocka!
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 03:20   #43
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Americans just tend to behave and think exaggerated


I once said that to an American and she almost got a panic attack from trying to deny it
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 03:39   #44
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
What the **** is your problem? I swear I'm going to register this forum as an Internet hate group with the UK government if the mods don't start dealing with the rampant racism on these boards.*
*That's probably not possible, but I would if it were. :/
I have helped you.

quite a lot.

read what you have written about me.

is that fair?

is it kind?

I forgive you.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 04:06   #45
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I have helped you.

quite a lot.

read what you have written about me.

is that fair?

is it kind?

I forgive you.
Oh nevermind that, that's just me trying to be funny. Nobody seems to understand my humor.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 04:11   #46
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Youre becoming an American version of Sunday8pm
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 04:16   #47
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Youre becoming an American version of Sunday8pm
Never liked the fellow, never spoke to him at length either, but Patrician always spoke highly of him, so he couldn't have been that bad.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 04:21   #48
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
I think it's utterly charming how each of our appalling posters acquires a new and specific niche or standpoint from which to disseminate utter rubbish.

step forward the (unforseeably odd) japanese-ophile.
Japanese-ophile....

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

You have to be kidding, don't get me started on what I don't like about the Japanese. There were a number of clues in what I said earlier, I'll let you figure them out.

I lived in Scotland for four years, I generally just have unpleasant things to say about everyone
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 04:52   #49
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Youre becoming an American version of Sunday8pm
no.

in this case i was involved. do not presume gordon.

Quote:
You have to be kidding, don't get me started on what I don't like about the Japanese. There were a number of clues in what I said earlier, I'll let you figure them out.
you (gordon) deal with this kind of idiot.

I lack the free time.
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Unread 6 Jan 2006, 05:34   #50
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Re: A British and American cultural conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
no.

in this case i was involved. do not presume gordon.



you (gordon) deal with this kind of idiot.

I lack the free time.
I think you'd probably have a lot more free time if you didn't presume everyone was an idiot, which is a trend I'm starting to detect from you.

Of course I'm working on presumption here, I'm sure your a lovely guy really.....

(working on the presumption your a guy)
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