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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 09:54   #1
Tiamat101
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Run and Hide

One of the easiest ways to help this game bring back some spark would be to remove the recently added Run and Hide. This only allows people that don't have as much time for the game to do well and hurts those that put in the time.

Reasons for:
1) It forces players to actually be aware of there planet most of the time
2) When the rule was created it was originally intended to be a psuedo-replacement for vacation mode, and Frankly it hasn't worked.
3) Zik/Etd Steal ships are actually viable when it comes to attacking idle planets or even just normal planets.
4) Makes people have to really think about 3 fleeting in any respect as stranded ships can not be moved.

Reasons Against:
1) It would make it harder for people that don't put in as much time to do well.

The last thing we should be doing is make it easier for inactive players to stay compeditive.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 09:58   #2
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Run and Hide

I am opposed to any change that makes it easier to ship farm idle planets. If that's the only way a Zik player can steal ships, he or she is just a crappy player.

It is unfortunate that run & hide allows active players to hide their fleet even when three fleeting, but I feel it's a small price to pay.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 10 Oct 2011 at 10:04.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 11:14   #3
Tiamat101
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Re: Run and Hide

Its not about ship farming. Because i don't like farming off the idle planets but there are even active planets that don't log in every day, or long enough to set fleets out. Before you had run and hide people would just pl there fleet to 1 1 1 +14 or something like that. That was Much better because then you always had to be aware of whats fighting at home and what you have away.

Steal races REALLY took a big hit from this because aside from the 1st week most attack mission recall so stealing on defense wont ever happen, so almost all steals are on attack which is how they should be because then they don't get to do MASSIVE value gains off steal + salvage. Right now Zik and sometime Etd are gimped really hard because as of late the stats havent given them enough effiency to compensate for the firing last. They should be able to stand up to some one other than emp. With out this then they need to RELY on getting constant or even regular steals to keep up with the universe. Otherwise they end up with only ~~ 5% of stolen ships and 95% zik ships.

The VERY rare planets you see with alot of stolen ships are either gotten via FC's OR! from being donated, not stolen, DONATED. Alot the same people that play zik have vnc'd 2 planets so they can donate them say 100k beetles or what ever the popular ship is for that round.

I am not saying that Changing run and hide only to fix the steal races. There are other Reason in which i have stated. And if removing it entirely isnt an option then put a time limit on it. Say 12 ticks or what ever and then it changes to stay and fight. Because otherwise if you know your going to be gone for longer than that then go into vacation mode or risk getting your fleet killed.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 11:27   #4
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Re: Run and Hide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Its not about ship farming. Because i don't like farming off the idle planets but there are even active planets that don't log in every day, or long enough to set fleets out. Before you had run and hide people would just pl there fleet to 1 1 1 +14 or something like that. That was Much better because then you always had to be aware of whats fighting at home and what you have away.

Steal races REALLY took a big hit from this because aside from the 1st week most attack mission recall so stealing on defense wont ever happen, so almost all steals are on attack which is how they should be because then they don't get to do MASSIVE value gains off steal + salvage. Right now Zik and sometime Etd are gimped really hard because as of late the stats havent given them enough effiency to compensate for the firing last. They should be able to stand up to some one other than emp. With out this then they need to RELY on getting constant or even regular steals to keep up with the universe. Otherwise they end up with only ~~ 5% of stolen ships and 95% zik ships.

The VERY rare planets you see with alot of stolen ships are either gotten via FC's OR! from being donated, not stolen, DONATED. Alot the same people that play zik have vnc'd 2 planets so they can donate them say 100k beetles or what ever the popular ship is for that round.

I am not saying that Changing run and hide only to fix the steal races. There are other Reason in which i have stated. And if removing it entirely isnt an option then put a time limit on it. Say 12 ticks or what ever and then it changes to stay and fight. Because otherwise if you know your going to be gone for longer than that then go into vacation mode or risk getting your fleet killed.
If it really is to fix the steal races, why not fix steal instead?
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 12:09   #5
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Re: Run and Hide

Do you Not Read Influence.... Changing Run/Hide isnt just to fix steal races. Its to fix the entire activity issue, and the fact that planets do well for not being active and even active planets have trouble succeeding because of all the ways people can play inactively.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 12:51   #6
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Re: Run and Hide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Do you Not Read Influence.... Changing Run/Hide isnt just to fix steal races. Its to fix the entire activity issue, and the fact that planets do well for not being active and even active planets have trouble succeeding because of all the ways people can play inactively.
stop using the word 'active'; PA does not require you to be active. PA requires you to be online for 20minutes each day at 4am.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 13:20   #7
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Run and Hide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Steal races REALLY took a big hit from this because aside from the 1st week most attack mission recall so stealing on defense wont ever happen, so almost all steals are on attack which is how they should be because then they don't get to do MASSIVE value gains off steal + salvage. Right now Zik and sometime Etd are gimped really hard because as of late the stats havent given them enough effiency to compensate for the firing last. They should be able to stand up to some one other than emp. With out this then they need to RELY on getting constant or even regular steals to keep up with the universe. Otherwise they end up with only ~~ 5% of stolen ships and 95% zik ships.
Then the stats for these races should be improved. If a problem with game mechanic B can be solved in game mechanic B, then there is no reason to tinker with game mechanic A, with all the side effects that that inevitably has. Fortunately, there is no need to do anything. Zik and Etd stats were just fine last round. And since their stats were fine, there's nothing wrong with Zik planets with only 5% stolen ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
The VERY rare planets you see with alot of stolen ships are either gotten via FC's OR! from being donated, not stolen, DONATED. Alot the same people that play zik have vnc'd 2 planets so they can donate them say 100k beetles or what ever the popular ship is for that round.
You forget faking, which good Zik players (ie, not me) have used to great effect to steal lots of ships.

Your approach to Zik is exactly what I dislike about this suggestion. Apparently, lots of people are either incapable of executing smart attacks or unwilling to put in the effort of setting up FCs and therefore you want to make stealing easier for all the lazy Ziks out there. You are sitting on a branch somewhere halfway of the skill tree, and you're looking up at the good Ziks and down at the newbies and tell yourself "I think the game should not reward those jerks above me for being better than me, but I do think it should reward me for being better than those idiots below me". Sorry, but this is not hypocrite central, and that's just not how games work.

Fact of the matter is, Zik is not for everyone. I was never any good with them, which is why I only played them for a couple of rounds. If you're like me, then instead of reducing stealing to the lowest common denominator, maybe you could play one of the other races. Even if they're not necessarily easier, at least they're more straightforward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
1) It forces players to actually be aware of there planet most of the time
Why is this a good thing? How does it make PA a better game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
2) When the rule was created it was originally intended to be a psuedo-replacement for vacation mode, and Frankly it hasn't worked.
Who told you that was what it was intended to do? The only source of information I could find that agrees with that assertion is the original thread. Yes, allowing people to stay away from the game for more than 8 hours at a time was certainly discussed by several people (myself included), but no PA team member participated in the discussion. In that same thread, making it harder to steal from inactives is discussed by the same people, but again, no PA team member participated.

But ok, let's assume for a moment, just for argument's sake, that that was indeed the aim. Why does that matter in the slightest? Originally, alliance play was not an intended to be an element of PA, but they came into being because the environment encouraged working together, even though the original creator did not envision it. Do you think alliances should be removed too? In the end, all that matters is if a feature has a net positive or net negative impact. Now, I understand that you believe R&H has a net negative impact, but arguments about "intent of features" are completely irrelevant when the only pertinent aim of PA is this: allowing people to have fun. Any feature or change that makes PA a better game should be kept, regardless of what their goal was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Do you Not Read Influence.... Changing Run/Hide isnt just to fix steal races. Its to fix the entire activity issue, and the fact that planets do well for not being active and even active planets have trouble succeeding because of all the ways people can play inactively.
Bullshit. As long as your goal is to do well on alliance, galaxy and/or planet rankings, PA does not, in any shape, way or form, reward inactivity more than activity. Any strategy that can be executed while playing inactively can be executed better by playing actively.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 10 Oct 2011 at 13:28.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 15:28   #8
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Re: Run and Hide

I was going to suggest that you should learn to play zik but mz covered that point
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 16:05   #9
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Re: Run and Hide

For once i have to agree with Tia :crymeariver:

Run and hide is retarded and only for inactive noobs - why shouldnt i be allowed to attack inactive ppl and steal their ships?

It's way to easy to save your fleet - it's a war game.

It's not like your all like Saddam hiding in some bunker somwhere and btw. he was found in the end!

Being able to "hide" forever aint a part of a war game.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 16:27   #10
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Re: Run and Hide

Loving the irony of your post , you want to be able to ship farm inactives because it's a war game
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 17:25   #11
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Re: Run and Hide

farm kill whatever floats your boat.

If you dont want your fleet to die, you need to be active.

But i guess thats to much to expect from asc ppl
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 17:42   #12
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Re: Run and Hide

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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
farm kill whatever floats your boat.

If you dont want your fleet to die, you need to be active.

But i guess thats to much to expect from asc ppl
Without checking i'm pretty certain that there were at least 7 asc ppl in the top 20 launchers this round , so thats a C- for you , try harder next time
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 18:05   #13
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Re: Run and Hide

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Without checking i'm pretty certain that there were at least 7 asc ppl in the top 20 launchers this round , so thats a C- for you , try harder next time
Loggin in once a day sending 3 fake attacks dosent rly count as being active.
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Unread 10 Oct 2011, 18:19   #14
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Re: Run and Hide

That derailed pretty quickly. Well done.
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Unread 11 Oct 2011, 00:45   #15
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Re: Run and Hide

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Zik and Etd stats were just fine last round. better by playing actively.
Hmmmmm, guess i must have been bilnd but i hardly found any target to attack at all!
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