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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 11:34   #1
M0RPH3US
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JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
They're still committed to improving the game and then, once there's more new user / mass user support, listing it on their main site. I know that a lot of people want that to happen asap, but if the game completely breaks and all the users sign up, join, get confused, leave, we could have several thousand random empty planets that we have to cope with. We might have to change the protection period to cope with that. That's part of future planning, to discuss. Discussions on how the signup, galaxy, exile and alliance system would cope with a sudden influx of new players are, of course, welcome on the suggestions forum.
1) Introduction Quest Thingy (i hope thats the one Cin is coding atm)

2) Outter-Rim
- was suggested before i think, but basically:
have players choose from exp.start (same as now) and newplayer.start (explained next)
newplayer.start shuffles you into a universe with just new players (and maybe bot planets?)
here you have the same protection mode like in the standard game, however, all the hardcore players play in a parallel universe (the real round).
so you can attack, defend etc with a few restrictions - no rankin, no alliances, no xp. - and ofc not into the real universe - vice versa
In preferences ur free to choose to join the real game any time u want to (maybe not before tick200 in real round???) and get shuffled into the normal gals - can now join alliances and ofc have a planetrank.
Ofc there needs to be limitations on how many value/score/roids you can bring out of this outter-rim and it prolly should be connected to how long the real round has progressed allready.

Aswell for buying a credit for the real round after playing in the outter-rim, imo you should get 2 credits, since u "wasted" parts of ur round learning. That way new players have at least a good motivation to play another round.

3) remove restrictions on alliance tag-limit
- alliances have their own ways to filter whom they take and whom not anyhow.

Also maybe it would be a good idea to encourage forming new alliances somehow - though i am not sure how or if it would even be needed, as i am pretty sure, if we just had enough in a recruiting pool, more ppl would start alliances and waste their time on pa

cheers
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 11:44   #2
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

1) agree

2) nonsense

3) agree
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 11:51   #3
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

whats so nonsense about #2 ?

i mean ppl could learn attacking and stuff and we wouldnt drown in a universe full of inactive planets, who signed up, realised there is no gfx and close the browserwindow again.

care to evaluate my friend ?
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 11:54   #4
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

just think it sounds too complicated for new players. how would it be explained to them? no doubt badly. what is needed is a dedicated training alliance that maybe gets some extra benefits and is able to bring the new players into the community. or, just get it on jagex website and get so many new players that if even only a small number stay it will still be a lot.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 12:09   #5
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
just think it sounds too complicated for new players. how would it be explained to them? no doubt badly. what is needed is a dedicated training alliance that maybe gets some extra benefits and is able to bring the new players into the community. or, just get it on jagex website and get so many new players that if even only a small number stay it will still be a lot.
i dont think Appoco/Cin nor Jagex is aiming at gettin a lot of signups and a very few percentage staying and playing - and i am neither
also your underestimating the influence of a thousands of new planets (which login like 1-3 times only) to the universe
Hints: Galaxy Exile system where ur the poor GC waiting 48h whenever the next dead planet gets shuffled in
or
dead-end gals with only inactives, where the few actives left exile in and loose the motivation to spend a fortune on exile nr. 100
aswell
server-load (outter-rim could run on a diffrent server)

the reason why we are not on the Jagex Page is exactly that they want to have an environment where new ppl learn the game and learn to like it.

and for the complicated part, i dunno, maybe it sounded complicated how i explained it,
but explaining to new guys "there is a button, if u press it you enter the real game and are now a target for everyone" doesnt seem too hard to me

that implemented into a nice Startup-Quest thing (like all games but PA have it) should solve "the complicated" issue.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 13:29   #6
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

personally, i am more for going down the "no exiles possible" route. therefore, it is in the interest of the gc/ministers/galmembers, to train and get all noobs upto scratch.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 14:33   #7
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
personally, i am more for going down the "no exiles possible" route. therefore, it is in the interest of the gc/ministers/galmembers, to train and get all noobs upto scratch.
yeah, well iīd agree
if there was only ppl joining the game willing to try and learn it

but i am afraid there could be a lot of signups, which give up before you even find the mail button to welcome em.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 14:38   #8
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

i dont see how your idea solves that problem.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 14:50   #9
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
what is needed is a dedicated training alliance
You mean something like The Horde, HeX or other small sized tags that ruthlessly get missused as cheap roid farms? Remember we tried to do that for 2 rounds but there was no point when the entire universe and especially ascendancy thinks you are there to fill their roid supply.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 14:51   #10
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

actually i think horde did pretty well. if they had the added help of no exiles, i think they could of done even better.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 15:06   #11
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
actually i think horde did pretty well. if they had the added help of no exiles, i think they could of done even better.
thats probably true, and i dont disagree with the training alliance stuff u said earlier.
that doesnt solve the problem i am trying to evaluate here though (which i think Appoco referred to)

and ofc the horde rocked

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
i dont see how your idea solves that problem.
yeah well, theyīd be sittin in a parallel universe, deciding to not enter the real universe simply because they quit before
a) finishing the startup quest
and
b) finding the button to enter the "real world"
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 15:49   #12
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post

yeah well, theyīd be sittin in a parallel universe, deciding to not enter the real universe simply because they quit before
a) finishing the startup quest
and
b) finding the button to enter the "real world"
By this you mean they evolve their planet and their evolved planet gets transfered over? if so i expect even those who knows the game would abuse it.. Easy roids, probably easy fleets if you go zik or etd also. As no matter how good you turn bots with AI, they are still bots and will play silly.

Wouldn't it be better just linking speed game and a "newbie guide" somewhere visible? Let them practise with 1 - 5 min ticks, this way they will learn the consept a lot faster and how things works, instead of waiting for one hour long ticks and waiting for things to happend. I think this will be a main issue for new players. Get them addicted first, and before you know it they play real round actively.

Add somewhere on every pa server toolbar:
Main Game 1 hour ticks (press link) (Status: Active/Inactive Tick:x of x)
Speed Game x mins ticks (press link) (Status: Active/Inactive Tick:x of x)
Beta Game x mins ticks (press link) (Status: Active/Inactive Tick:x of x)
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 15:56   #13
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
By this you mean they evolve their planet and their evolved planet gets transfered over? if so i expect even those who knows the game would abuse it.. Easy roids, probably easy fleets if you go zik or etd also. As no matter how good you turn bots with AI, they are still bots and will play silly.

Wouldn't it be better just linking speed game and a "newbie guide" somewhere visible? Let them practise with 1 - 5 min ticks, this way they will learn the consept a lot faster and how things works, instead of waiting for one hour long ticks and waiting for things to happend. I think this will be a main issue for new players. Get them addicted first, and before you know it they play real round actively.

yeah well as i stated in the original post, iīd ofc limit the value/roids of the transferred planet.

lets say to 300 roids and xyz ressources each (depending on universe avg value/roids the tick the transfer happens) - with ships removed - research and constructions could be taken over i guess, as i dont see an abuse with that.

the tickspeed is a good suggestion though, the parallel universe could run with faster ticks.

overall i have to (again) point out that this suggestion only will work with a good Startup-Quest System - as there is no use in having ppl click random buttons in a parallel universe not knowing what to do in the end
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 16:01   #14
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

I think #2 is a pretty good suggestion. In many ways it's similar to how I started in r4. There was enough people that we (a gal of mostly friends) didn't have to worry about getting inc from the big guys constantly, none of us had a personal alliance, we didn't have a para alliance until later in the round, and we still had fun. We were able to attack solo and most of us played for several more rounds.

I think #2 could be the key to getting someone hooked and allowing them to have fun and showing them how it could be. If I had had to start from scratch in r42 i doubt i would be coming back for another round.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 20:58   #15
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

#2 wouldnt work - its good in theory but would suck in practice - too many variables and far too open to cheating. Running a 15 min tick game alongside main pa would work but then the people who play havoc would just play that instead lessening the already vacant playerbase.

I know you guys all want these new Jagex signups but come on what they actually going to do??

Sign up, go 'wtf where is the graphics!!' then sign out = another dead planet
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 21:06   #16
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post

I know you guys all want these new Jagex signups but come on what they actually going to do??

Sign up, go 'wtf where is the graphics!!' then sign out = another dead planet
i do agree with this, however.....some would stay. therefore, get on with it ffs as even 5% of 5% of runescape players would be insane.
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Unread 16 Aug 2011, 21:57   #17
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

if we got 0.5% of the runescape players that would be a miracle... infact if we got 5....
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 07:30   #18
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

*make a good startup tutorial system
*market the game as it is/was - the original thing (u wont find many ppl eager to play text game, just a smaller playerbase from old times, so no point in gettin thousands of dead planets)
*make a good integration with IRC and some sytem that directs ppl there no matter what (cos, thats like 90% of the game itself, the community and things happening in chatrooms)

bottom line - fck the thousands of useless dead planet players that login once, get dissapointed due to the game not being attractive visually, and never come back. useless.. get a steady growth of ppl that actually search and wanna play games like planetarion
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 10:58   #19
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

No point splitting the universe up.

Just change protection period to be completed by a quest.
At tick 12, everyone with a buddy pack gets shuffled into there galaxys for the round. Then anyone without gets a quest to complete in order to get shuffled into the active universe (also needs to of completed the beginner quests if they have been implemented properly).

This fixes the shuffle system as now the most active players will all be shuffled into the universe at tick 12-14 which will result in an even spread of active planets throughout the universe with the casuals/inactives shuffling into the universe whenever they login.

It stops one-time logins from entering the universe, as they will not completle the quest.

With a beginner quest system which takes the player through the basics of the game and an overhaul of the scan system (so new players can actually play the game), the game will be fine.

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...=198885&page=2 <-- Is as far as i got before i got bored and realised nothing would get implemented.
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 11:11   #20
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

i like the complete quest before shuffled into active universe idea. apply that and the no exiles and i think its pretty w1n.
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 12:13   #21
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

good suggestion indeed.

only thing iīd miss compared to what i suggested is the training of battles.
but could prolly add bot planets to 1:1:1 and implement one or two quests aimed to attack them "like cap 40 roids from a planet in 1:1" and/or "attack a planet in 1:1 and do not loose a single ship" etc...

however both ideas stand and fall with a Startup-Quest-System that 1) explains the game and 2) gets ppl to actually finish it and play the game itself
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 12:32   #22
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
good suggestion indeed.

only thing iīd miss compared to what i suggested is the training of battles.
but could prolly add bot planets to 1:1:1 and implement one or two quests aimed to attack them "like cap 40 roids from a planet in 1:1" and/or "attack a planet in 1:1 and do not loose a single ship" etc...
Thats pretty simple to do, just add in 2 planets which are just there for show. Then if you have a scan system where people can actually scan, you can setup quests while in protection to attack them (taking through which scans to use and how to read them, how to add into a calc and figure out what ships to send) and it does it through a quest. You can also do the same for defending, taking them through the planet attacking them, checking the galaxy tab, scanning, leaving the right ships at home, etc. (Doesnt even have to be realtime, it can just update everytime they complete a step... i.e. starts at eta 10 then when they've sorted everything, it lands).
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 12:45   #23
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

This sort of expansion of the quest system has been discussed before. I don't think anyone was opposed to it at the time, but I'm too lazy to go look it up.

If it needed saying, I like this suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
(Doesnt even have to be realtime, it can just update everytime they complete a step... i.e. starts at eta 10 then when they've sorted everything, it lands).
That might not be the best of ideas. If you're going to prepare people for the game, you should do it right. While certain liberties with realism can be taken (the last quest probably shouldn't be "get all your ships stolen by someone five times your value and quit the game"), covering over one of the core aspects of PA seems like a bad approach to me.
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 20:15   #24
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That might not be the best of ideas. If you're going to prepare people for the game, you should do it right. While certain liberties with realism can be taken (the last quest probably shouldn't be "get all your ships stolen by someone five times your value and quit the game"), covering over one of the core aspects of PA seems like a bad approach to me.
its just for the quest system and teach them the basics, I dont really see how you can have a attacking/defending quest in real-time while taking them through each step of scanning and calcing.
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 20:37   #25
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Well, there really are only three stages to it:
1) You have incs! Scan, do ship stuff, gogogo!
2) Wait.
3) Check brep.

There's no good reason why step 2 should be omitted, and it'll give them a reason to come back for step 3.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 21:42   #26
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Well, there really are only three stages to it:
1) You have incs! Scan, do ship stuff, gogogo!
2) Wait.
3) Check brep.

There's no good reason why step 2 should be omitted, and it'll give them a reason to come back for step 3.
but that if they dont do the ship stuff? as its multiple quests.. Incs arrive, Scan, Calc, Move fleet about, Then wait.
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Unread 17 Aug 2011, 22:23   #27
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
but that if they dont do the ship stuff?
Well that would be stupid. It's not exactly rocket science, if they don't defend their planet, they get roided. Obviously you want the inc to show when they're actually present, but beyond that, I see no reason to do anything different than with normal incs.
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Unread 18 Aug 2011, 19:24   #28
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

could do the battle quests real time

like 1 tick = 5 min

with avg attacking speed of eta12 (in start), thats enough time to sort all quests connected to it
scanning, calcin, preparing fleet etc...
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Unread 18 Aug 2011, 20:51   #29
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

The idea of quests is to show people what to do in the early ticks so they understand the game.
Having ticks faster for battles quests negates the point
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Unread 19 Aug 2011, 05:47   #30
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
The idea of quests is to show people what to do in the early ticks so they understand the game.
Having ticks faster for battles quests negates the point
yeah let them wait 12h preticks just to see their first test battle-report - i am sure that will attract loads of ppl!
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Unread 19 Aug 2011, 08:06   #31
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

If waiting half a day for breps puts them off, then PA is not a good game for them to play. Why deceive them only to have them quit later?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 19 Aug 2011, 16:29   #32
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Re: JAGEX and the thousands of new planets

Starting Quests do not need to cover every single aspect of gameplay. if anything, there should be a quest that rewards you for getting online into irc and introduce yourself to the community.
In order to give people things to do during those awful waiting periods, there should be some kind of quests running all round long. Periodically occurring events that may give you roids or resources.
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