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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 13:54   #1
KlavoHunter
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Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

I found this over on another forum. I'll do the two instruction posts seperate from one another.

Quote:
Heh no it isn't a scam. But then all scams say this. How about if I said you can make free money iwth a 30 minute form and a 10 minute phone call?

Too good to be true? Well for most it is, but if you have a good credit rating, here's what you do.


get the LARGEST credit limit you can. Apply to MBMA - they allow a balance transfer to your Current Account at your bank.

Here's how you do it.

Apply at MBMA (or someone that offers current account balance transfers) and get a limit of £10000, £25000 etc. AS HIGH AS YOU CAN GET IT.

Now, make sure it's a deal at 0% interest for 6, 9 or 12 months.

Get the card. Empty the contents into your current account. From there, it's your moeny to do with as you want. don't spend it. Put it in the highest interest SAVINGS ACCOUNT you can fine for 5.5 months, 8.5 months or 11.5 months - whatever the 0% interest period is, take 2 weeks off and put it in your account for that long. Then, 2 weeks (or 3 if you want to be extra careful) before the card expires it's interest free period, pay the balance back and keep all the interest you earned int he savings account. Since you aren't paying any on the card, it costs you nothing.


"AHHHHHH - what about the monthly repayments? There's still minimum payments, right?" Sure there is. BUT ITS INTEREST FREE. All the money you apy each month back to the credit card is taken off the balance. You aren't paying any more because it's 0% interest.

Usually the minimum monthly payment is 3% of the balance.

Take a £25,000 card. 3% is £750. So you pay that each month (gradually getting less as the balance comes down.) Where do you get it from? From the savings account. Use the interest free loan to pay itself back at the minimum payments.

5.5 months later (or whatever) pay the whole thing back, close the account. Do it again. And again. And again.

It costs nothing, you keep the interest.

You can get around £1000 over a 12 month period from a £25,000 card.

Since it costs nothing (seriosuly, you can ring up your card compoany and ask them!) do 10 at a time. 20 etc. Whatever your credit rating can give you, take it!

Note, during the time, your credit rating will slightly go down as you have borrwed a lot more, however once they are paid off, the rating will be BETTER THAN IT WAS ORIGINALLY.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 13:55   #2
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
I made this timeline, if it helps explain stuff more clearly:



timeline.


Month 1
-------

Apply for a credit card with 0% interest for 6, 9 or 12 months. I will make it easy and stick with 6 months.

Get the card. Let's pretend it has a £10,000 limit.

Clock starts here.

Do a Balance Transfer directly into your bank account. Max out the card. Once it's in your main account, shove it in a high interest, but instand access, savings account (5% interest)

Get your first credit card statement. It will say:

Limit: £10,000
Balance: £10,000
Min Payment: £300


Take £300 from the savings account and pay onto card.

Savings account: £10,000 - £300 = £9700.
£9700 + £47 interest from that 1 month = £9747.



Month 2
=======

Get your second credit card statement. It will say:

Limit £10,000
Balance: £9700
Min Pymnt: £291


Take £291 from the savings account and pay onto card.

Savings account: £9747 - £291 = £9456
£9456 + £39.40 interest = £9504.4



Month 3
=======

Get your third credit card statement. It will say:

Limit £10,000
Balance: £9409
Min Pymnt: £282.27


Take £282.27 from the savings account and pay onto card.

Savings account: £9504.4 - £282.27 = £9222.13
£9222.13 + £38.42 interest = £9260.55



Month 4
=======

Get your fourth credit card statement. It will say:

Limit £10,000
Balance: £9126.73
Min Pymnt: £273.80


Take £273.80 from the savings account and pay onto card.

Savings account: £9260.55 - £273.80 = £8986.75
£8986.75 + £37.44 interest = £9024.19



Month 5
=======

Get your fifth credit card statement. It will say:

Limit £10,000
Balance: £8852.93
Min Pymnt: £265.59


Take £265.59 from the savings account and pay onto card.

Savings account: £9024.19 - £265.59 = £8758.60
£8758.60 + £36.49 interest = £8795.09



Phone card company 5 months and 2 weeks into all this. Make sure they have processed the previous payment.

Ask them the balance. They should say it is £8587.34.

Phone your bank next. Ask for the balance of the savings account. They should say £8795.09

Take £8587.34 from the savings account and pay off the card before the 6 months 0% interest is up.

Next Card Statement:

Limit £10,000
Balance: £0
Min Pymnt: £0


Cancel the card.

You now have £207.75 available in your savings account.


Do it with a £20,000 card and get over twice as much.

£40,000? You get over £800 after 6 months.

Do it twice a year that's £1600.

Do 2 at once, twice a year, that's £3200.

Do 10 at once, twice a year, that's £16000.



Eventually (after a couple of years at 10 a year) you will run out of companies offering cards, yes?

No, because they keep opening new companies and new cards with existing companies, and as long as your credit history is good, they wont care.

Can you do 10 at once, twice a year? It will take a lot of organising but if you time them all on the same day, it's only writing 10 cheques a month. How long does that take? 10 minutes?

You have to time it right, but it can be done. You also need a good credit hisotry to be able to apply for a 0% card. Hope this explains it.




(Assuming 3% of total Balance, per month, for credit card which is industry standard in the UK, and assuming 5% interest rate in instant access savings, which is pretty common in the UK. Alliance and Leicester bank offers this, as does Intelligent Finance (www.if.com).
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 13:56   #3
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

we know in the banks about people doing this. Its used to deliberately rack up your ratings within bank systems.

We have systems in place that watch it.

It doesnt work

Take it from someone who does card and payments fraud
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 13:57   #4
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Currently, we're trying to work out how to go through this via getting one of those Small Business credit cards that have a 0% introductory interest rates.

And the nicest thing about this is that it's perfectly legal...
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 13:59   #5
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Ah, really? Well, this makes things interesting. How exactly do you "stop" this sort of thing? It's not hurting anyone, after all.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:03   #6
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Kura, do you know of anything that does work?

Just out of interest like.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:09   #7
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

These have been publicised quite alot and I'm sure credit card companies are onto it as Kura said. Thing is, it is legal. They've created this chance in their desperate attempt to feed us more debt and rake in more money. I say use their own tools against them.
And it's legal, they generally have no recourse against you apart from stopping your card and closing your account. You can make a huge headache for them then, meaning its hardly worth the hassle. Plus the money you can make isn't exactly massive.
Who the hell will actually manage to get a £25,000 limit card? Most likely in the low thousands, meaning the windfall of money is in the hundreds.
Pretty much pittance to these companies compared to the money they rake in otherwise.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:11   #8
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

if i undestood this correctly you borrow money at an interest rate of 0% and then give it back to the bank for a few percent.
cant see anything illegal about that, if they offer you money for free thats their problem, isnt it?
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:11   #9
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

RP.

Need I say more?
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:24   #10
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

You are also counting on the comptentcy of the comapnies that own the card and the Banks themselves releasing the cash (or recieving the cash) at the right time and so on and so forth, oh and the small print...

p.s. What's really funny is when your bank goes bust!
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:31   #11
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

i dont see why a direct debit transfer every month of what you owe back cant solve that ...

it sounds interesting.


borrowing a million quite could prove quite profitable..
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:34   #12
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Yes but the CC coul be borrowing to give you the money from the same bank you are trying to put it back in to earn interest and well then you just make money silly.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:38   #13
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday8pm
You are also counting on the comptentcy of the comapnies that own the card and the Banks themselves releasing the cash (or recieving the cash) at the right time and so on and so forth, oh and the small print...

p.s. What's really funny is when your bank goes bust!
I doubt there are many here who would be given a credit limit of anywhere near £31k (which is, I believe, the amount you're "covered" up to if a bank goes bust).
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:42   #14
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

how many people have a disposable incme of £750 pm to repay the card?

the initial balance is all you have 0% interest on - not usually what you rack up after that....


Its a lot of hassle for something that sounds feasibly possible (if you have enough cash floating around).

The only true way to get cash is earn it* or win it** or mug it***

* could be from illegal activities which require selling or benefits

** could be from lottery, competitions or funerals

*** Also includes fraud and stealing
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:45   #15
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

but if you did have access to a high credit limit (hi dad) then it would infact be possible to make yourself a fair bit of 'free income' per year if you had the time for the hassle involved.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:56   #16
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Exclamation Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Don't most credit card companies charge a handling fee on 0%-interest balance transfers?

In general, I've found that financial institutions tend to get annoyed when they discover someone playing on their nickel. This sort of thing would be easy for them to spot and there are any number of things they can do to throw a wrench into your plans--such as cancelling your credit card and leaving you to scramble to pay it off months ahead of schedule. Worse, all of this would show up on your credit history and sooner or later no credit card company will even want to talk to you.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 14:58   #17
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

good luck in getting a credit limit anything near £25k
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 15:02   #18
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
but if you did have access to a high credit limit (hi dad) then it would infact be possible to make yourself a fair bit of 'free income' per year if you had the time for the hassle involved.
only if you have the monthly repayments to make it work.

Again I state you need the 750 pounds per month for repayment as you cannt reborrow that money without infact incurring interest charges.

So you need at least 750 *12 (simplistically that is I could calculate actual repaymens, but can't be arsed). So unless you have the cash you need approximately 9k for repayments accessible before the repayment datss (based on a 0% interest for 12 months).

Then what are high interest accounts at? 8% so if you imagie you cant use 9k as you need it for repayments you have 16k left

so 16,000 *.08 = 1280

so it might work but you need the discipline of doing it and you need th appropriate ized credit limit.

Also I doubt you could do this THAT regularly because each card is registered against your credit rating as is each credit search. Possible but it seems a lot of hassle for little return*.

*Assuming you can get 25k at interest free amounts.

The real problem is the initial thing is that you are asking for the cash to be transferred direct to your current account. Since you are saying you have a balance when in fact you on't I would assume Kura is right in saying that this is infact fraud.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 15:23   #19
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

(Ebs using Marks account again)

You seem to have missed the point that you use an instant access savings account where you can get the money to pay the credit card from the money you origionally tranferred from them.

You could probably get away with doing it a few times, but I think they may catch on to someone doing it 10 times every 6 months. Every time you apply for a card a note is put on your credit record so they would see that you are applying for many many cards at once, and regularly, and get a tad suspicious. While its not illegal, its not the kind of thing they want their customers to be doing, and they would find some excuse to refuse you.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 16:27   #20
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

i never missed yuo could put i in a instant savings account, but he rate of interest is lower. You *might* get 6% if your lucky, but his has a impact on he amount of mone you can make (mine was just a simplistic way of showing hw it could be done).

As for it not being "illegal" i am not so sure. You are initially asking for them to pay £25k into your account (current or otherwise) as a balance transfer. It sure sounds fraudulent to me.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 16:42   #21
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

hmm, it looks to me like there isn't anything that say you CAN'T do this.

thus it's legal.

Ofcourse you've got a very good chance that you won't be able to do this for more then a couple of times. The guys working at those credit card offices aren't total morons (partial morons, yes, total, no, unfortunately not :P)
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 16:48   #22
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

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Originally Posted by flapjack
The guys working at those credit card offices aren't total morons (partial morons, yes, total, no, unfortunately not :P)
Have you met Kurashima?
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 17:08   #23
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

At best they will utterly own your credit rating.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:16   #24
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
Kura, do you know of anything that does work?

Just out of interest like.
Yes Rids

And i recall youve already been the victim of it.

"Over the shoulder" grabs are about the only way to get cash out of a bank for free nowadays.

Klavo's method might seem a great idea, but the banks watch for this, and youd find a very ****ed up credit rating within a few months. Plus, as the amount of money youll make is less than maybe £1000, the average person who needs that kind of cash, and can make the repayments is unlikely to meet the criteria to get the card in the first place (you know that despite earning nearly £20k offshore, even I cant qualify for a £5k credit card limit).

To qualify for the kind of cash limit you would need, to earn the interest you need to to repay the loan and make the repayments, youd need to be earning in excess of £35k a year GBP (not Dollars , dont kid yourself, US banks arent stupid either), and have outgoings which are less than 40% of your monthly salary.

And if youre in that bracket, youre earning enough money you dont need to try and ruin your credit rating by scamming the bank. Your credit rating improves by making monthly repayments on an outstanding amount, not paying it all back in one go. That gets you a phone call asking for Source of Funds, and a closed account.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:20   #25
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack
hmm, it looks to me like there isn't anything that say you CAN'T do this.

thus it's legal.

Ofcourse you've got a very good chance that you won't be able to do this for more then a couple of times. The guys working at those credit card offices aren't total morons (partial morons, yes, total, no, unfortunately not :P)
We dont work in Credit Card offices. Remember, any credit card you take is backed by a major bank, even store cards will trace back to one of the major financial institutions. Theres some kind of myth in the criminal fraternity that call centres are all staffed by morons that hate their job and work to a set of rules you can get round.

As soon as you go around those rules, big icons flash in my inbox, and the inbox of my counterpart in any major bank, and you dont have a credit card or a bank account anymore. Youll also find other institutions will be very hard to convince to allow you to even open an account with them, let alone get credit.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:22   #26
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

How do you transfer money from a credit card to a current account anyway?

Any credit card I've had / seen charged you for cash withdrawls. Most of that 0% stuff is on balance transfers or purchases only. I guess you could withdraw loads of cash on one card and then balance transfer it to a second one, and then use the cash from the 1st one to put in a savings account however.

This is all pussy stuff though. If I could get a credit card with a £25k limit I'd withdraw it all and put it on black on a roulette spin. I win, cool, everythings sweet, if I lose, **** it, bankruptcy calls.

This is, however, probably why I can't get any further cards, let alone ones with £25k limits.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:24   #27
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
i never missed yuo could put i in a instant savings account, but he rate of interest is lower. You *might* get 6% if your lucky, but his has a impact on he amount of mone you can make (mine was just a simplistic way of showing hw it could be done).

As for it not being "illegal" i am not so sure. You are initially asking for them to pay £25k into your account (current or otherwise) as a balance transfer. It sure sounds fraudulent to me.
If you can find a savings account that pays 6% on a balance under £250k and has less than 90 days notice to it, congratu****inglations Rumad, youve officially outdone almost every offshore bank i know

You COULD invest in a high risk 12 month bond , but HEY , you wouldnt get your cash back in time to pay off your lump sum. Ouch!
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:32   #28
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
How do you transfer money from a credit card to a current account anyway?

Any credit card I've had / seen charged you for cash withdrawls. Most of that 0% stuff is on balance transfers or purchases only. I guess you could withdraw loads of cash on one card and then balance transfer it to a second one, and then use the cash from the 1st one to put in a savings account however.

This is all pussy stuff though. If I could get a credit card with a £25k limit I'd withdraw it all and put it on black on a roulette spin. I win, cool, everythings sweet, if I lose, **** it, bankruptcy calls.

This is, however, probably why I can't get any further cards, let alone ones with £25k limits.
If i cant get them, dodgy communist students like yourself have no chance.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:33   #29
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

just while we are at the subject: why and how do people over there keep buying / building houses like cracy with those high intrestrates?
on a normal account i can access every day i get maybe 0.5%, for 3 month i get 2% if im lucky
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:41   #30
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
just while we are at the subject: why and how do people over there keep buying / building houses like cracy with those high intrestrates?
on a normal account i can access every day i get maybe 0.5%, for 3 month i get 2% if im lucky
Because, in some areas, we have a dramatic under-supply of housing.

This combined with a very weak state / private rental sector means that buying a home is the only realistic long-term option for most British people (unlike in other European countries).

Anyway our interest rates are quite low, historically speaking.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:48   #31
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

£200 over 6 months isn't really worth the effort.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 18:49   #32
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
dodgy communist students
I knew I shouldn't have put that as my occupation on the application form.
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Unread 23 Sep 2004, 19:41   #33
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

My bank recently upped my limit to £5000, I do not intend to use it at all. Being a student taught me that that only causes problems

I think my job saw the following

- £700 Per Week Deposited
- Paying off Student Overdraft
- Graduate

Must. Make. Customer. Happy. Must. Get. Customer. To. Get. Loads. Of. Crap
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 02:26   #34
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

I thought everyone knew of this "scam" the two or so years ago i initially became aware of it.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 08:41   #35
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
If you can find a savings account that pays 6% on a balance under £250k and has less than 90 days notice to it, congratu****inglations Rumad, youve officially outdone almost every offshore bank i know
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 10:52   #36
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

to be fair, getting high limit credit cards is easy, i have to keep asking them to put mine doen or one of mine would have somewhere around a 10k limit by now, and that would be scary
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 11:53   #37
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Like Dace, I assumed everyone already knew this. It's just like putting your student loan in a savings account while you're at university, i.e. not worth the effort.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 12:55   #38
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Kura is right, messing about with these "get rich at a snails pace" schemes invariably leads to a risk assesment and generally a very bung credit rating.

Generally the only people who can pull that kind of credit limit are those who qualify for the top teir card brackets. Ofc its all done on a person to person basis, but your average gold visa card will have a maximum credit limit which wont be anywhere near that sort of money.

Even somthing like a Platinum Amex is just barely scraping that level of credit, and those who would qualify for it would typically be wealthy enough not care at all.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 13:02   #39
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

All the risks seem to be i you do this lots.

Whats wrong with doing it just once if you can get one of these cards and find a way to transfer money for free/less than the rate of savings interest.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 13:03   #40
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

There's nothing wrong with the idea in theory, and it's not a "scam" as such. As Proteus says, generally it's just not worth it.

Personally though, I can think of more interesting / exciting to do with £25k of interest free money. Even if you're not looking for high risk stuff, wouldn't doing the stock market be slightly more interesting?
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 13:11   #41
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

If you do it once, you will still get flagged for it. What other reason would you have for transfering your entire credit card balance into a savings account? Any bank or credit card company would absolutely ream your credit rating and typically they would be stupid not to have an illicit usage clause in the transfer conditions.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 14:20   #42
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

It's still not clear how you transfer from a credit card to a savings account. Credit cards don't have accompanying cheque books, and you can't normally deposit money via a Visa type transaction.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 15:39   #43
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

People I know have been doing this with there student loan for years.

Surely this is kind of common knowledge?

However, with some credit cards you have to use them to make purchases at least 3 times a month or something. I realise that isn't hard (quick supermarket trip, round at pub etc.) but it's something more to remember doing.

If I had the time and effort to do it I would. Oh and there is no way I could get a credit limit that high as a student.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 15:41   #44
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
It's still not clear how you transfer from a credit card to a savings account. Credit cards don't have accompanying cheque books, and you can't normally deposit money via a Visa type transaction.
Balance transfers. Easy. And you can get Cheques for credit card accounts too.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 15:53   #45
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Balance transfers. Easy. And you can get Cheques for credit card accounts too.

Anything raised after the initial transfer will attract interest. If you transfer the entire 0% balance I am sure you are technically lying on your application which would be loosely classified as fraudulently presening information to a CC company.
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 17:11   #46
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Hmm, I'm just looking at signing up a new credit card, already have an Egg but I want one with 0% on Balance Transfers for the first 6 months.

This has nothing to do with the scam above, just I need to move a little bit of money around.

Any suggestions?
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 17:12   #47
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Balance transfers. Easy.
A balance transfer is from a Credit Card to another Credit Card afaik...On all the balance transfer forms I've seen they ask for card numbers, not bank account details. I say again, most credit cards treat cash withdrawls differently from purchases. If there was a ridiculously easy way to get cash while avoiding their fees, I'd have thought they'd have noticed...

I've tried Googling on this subject, but most of the info out there seems rather poor quality.

Quote:
And you can get Cheques for credit card accounts too.
I wasn't aware of this. What credit cards do this?
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 17:14   #48
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

mbna do
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 19:53   #49
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
Egg
4.75%

And their fixed rate bond isnt much higher

Please link me to this offer that gives 6% NET interest on a UK account (the reason i specified offshore is that all UK savings accounts, in order to get customers in, state the GROSS interest rate on the account, and once tax is taken into consideration, itll usually be at least 1% lower or more)
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Unread 24 Sep 2004, 20:00   #50
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Re: Legal credit card "scam".... interesting!

Interest is for saps, shares are where its at

Now, I just need to get shares
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