Manchester United

[Dookie Velvet]

What a bunch of ****ing neanderthals.

Real Madrid outdo them in class, style, ability and talent.

[LHC]

Zidane is overrated though.

He did a stepover with nobody anywhere near him and everybody gasped.

[Haer]

Utter rubbish. One thing that really annoys me about football commentary is just how overhyped things are. First its Wayne rooney(He did nt even do that much for gods sake.), then its Real Madrid - Yes, there good. The first goal was world class.

However, the second two, were the results of mistakes - If Utd had lost the ball in the premiership like they did for the second goal it would have been the same result. Similarly, if Utd gave a striker the amount of time they gave Raul to shoot, he would score.

Defensively, both teams looked weak - Real had the better attack I will admit, Beckham was pretty poor. However, when United were coming forward, they were causing problems. They did nt have a defender like Rio, who could just step in and break the attack up. Real had to work to defend. United had plenty of chances. It could have been 6 - 1, It could have been 3-3.

Yes, Real were good, probably the better team. But they were nt as "Omg Brilliant" as they were, or are being hyped up to be.

It wont be easy, but I do think United have a very good chance of winning 2-0 at Old trafford.

[Haer]

Originally posted by LHC
Zidane is overrated though.

He did a stepover with nobody anywhere near him and everybody gasped.

Exactly. Every time they did a back heel, or something similar the commentators practically spoiled there pants. Yet, united would do similar things, and the Commentators would nt even pick up on it.(I mean, its not really that hard to switch the ball between your feet, neither is it hard to turn.)

Most of the hype comes from the fact we dont often see them. If we saw Figo playing every week, and rarely saw Beckham, everyone would say that Beckham is the better player. But we dont, and so we dont see the performances they put in week in week out, with all the mistakes they make.

[JC]

Originally posted by Haer

It wont be easy, but I do think United have a very good chance of winning 2-0 at Old trafford.

I would put my house on that not being the result of the 2nd leg. Real Madrid will score, of that i have no doubt.

United were quite simply out classed tonight, Real got to 3-0 and took their foot off the pedal, which allowed United back into the game. The only Man U player that put in the kind of performance you would want in a big game like this was RVN, i thought he was top class, just a pity the likes of Beckham, Scholes and Giggs couldn't do the same.

[Bloomers III]

ruud van nistelrooy is funny. the way his hair bobs up and down loads when he runs becuase it's **** and he runs ****. lol at him!

[LHC]

I can't believe they are willing to play Scholes on the left wing. It clearly doesn't work, and they shouldn't play him for the sake of playing him, just because he is a good player. If they think Butt is a better midfield player they should play Butt and have Scholes as sub.

[Freakozoid]

hold on.

Madrid WERE that good.

And Figo has been playing ****e in La Liga but to put in a performance like that you have to be something special.

United's defensive stance of wait and see was just wrong.

Yeah RVN was the only decent player.
Silvestre was shocking as i knew he would be. Piss poor first touch against the likes of Madrid will reveal you for the utter pile of muck that he is.

United really do need a decent 2nd striker.
Giggs does not cut it in the middle.

[Dookie Velvet]

Real Madrid are the better team.

Manchester United are cavemen, resorting to unsporting tactics when things don't go their way.

Take it or leave it.


This is the first football match I've watched since the World Cup. I'm not "big up y'all" when it comes down to kicking a ball around a field.

They're just my observations.

[Haer]

Originally posted by JC
I would put my house on that not being the result of the 2nd leg. Real Madrid will score, of that i have no doubt.

United were quite simply out classed tonight, Real got to 3-0 and took their foot off the pedal, which allowed United back into the game. The only Man U player that put in the kind of performance you would want in a big game like this was RVN, i thought he was top class, just a pity the likes of Beckham, Scholes and Giggs couldn't do the same.

No. I dont take any stead of these statements like "Real will score". Its rubbish. Yes, there good coming forward, but far from unstoppable. Two of the goals today were given away, not taken - Even the first, Figo was allowed too much time on the ball.

United always looked dangerous - RvN missed a few chances, Butt and Beckham both missed sitters. Sometimes we looked reluctant to shoot, even when we had the ball in there penalty box.

[LHC]

Ruud Van Nistelrooy's dive when he [possibly] got hit in the jaw was hilarious.

[Haer]

Originally posted by LHC
I can't believe they are willing to play Scholes on the left wing. It clearly doesn't work, and they shouldn't play him for the sake of playing him, just because he is a good player. If they think Butt is a better midfield player they should play Butt and have Scholes as sub.

What? Scholes is world class. Besides, we dont need Butt - Keane does(or should do) the job that Butt does.

[Freakozoid]

with Phil Neville back what can go wrong?

[LHC]

Originally posted by Haer
What? Scholes is world class. Besides, we dont need Butt - Keane does(or should do) the job that Butt does.

Fine. Then they should take out Butt and have Scholes in the middle with Keane, with Giggs on the left. Scholes on the left is ludicrous. Being a right footer, he just turns inside and goes backwards.

[Haer]

Originally posted by Freakozoid
hold on.

Madrid WERE that good.

And Figo has been playing ****e in La Liga but to put in a performance like that you have to be something special.

United's defensive stance of wait and see was just wrong.

Yeah RVN was the only decent player.
Silvestre was shocking as i knew he would be. Piss poor first touch against the likes of Madrid will reveal you for the utter pile of muck that he is.

United really do need a decent 2nd striker.
Giggs does not cut it in the middle.

"Like that?" He did nt do anything special apart from his goal. Raul and Zidane caused most of the problems. United could be better defensively, but so could Real. If United are on there game at Old trafford, against a defence like that, they will rip them apart. As you said, United were poor. Beckham was terrible, Keane and Butt did nt play as well as they can. Scholes and Giggs caused problems but can do much better. RvN was very good yes, but his finishing let him down at times.

Ultimately, United made two mistakes and Real capatalised on them, and had one true moment of magic. United were let down by finishing, and a few silly mistakes.

Real played better - That does nt make them undeniably the better team.

[Deffeh]

Different stance from me.

First of all, let me say that i WANTED man utd to win.

I think unfortunately, Real were that good. The quick passing, they way they humiliated Man utd and made them look ordinary. I dont like Real because of their hideous manufactured nature. If they win, its no fun, because they are easily the best side in the world.

The goals were well taken. Theres no way you can say RvN or any other man utd player would "definitely" have finished either of Raul's goals. I wouldnt give them over a 50% chance of finishing like he did. Frankly both of Raul's goals you would not have said "sitter" if they were missed by him.

Also, when you take into account the nice dive by RvN, the handball by barthez, and the fact that Real should have had at least one penalty, 3-1 is a great scoreline for man utd.

My main point though is the hideous overration of Ruud. He scored a goal from all of 3 yards that no one should miss - he might even have been offside. Two minutes later he hit a shot straight at casillas from 6 yards. Instead, the commentators chose to talk about beckhams miss. He was offside a couple of times, fouled a couple of times, and marked brilliantly. I remember him not releasing to scholes once at least too.

Yet he still comes out smelling of roses, because the media hate saying anything against him.
The only thing i can say in his defence is that its NEVER easy playing as a lone striker.

[JC]

Originally posted by Haer
No. I dont take any stead of these statements like "Real will score". Its rubbish. Yes, there good coming forward, but far from unstoppable. Two of the goals today were given away, not taken - Even the first, Figo was allowed too much time on the ball.

With Barthez running around like a headless chicken, Silvestre going AWOL and the whole Man U failing to get close to any Real midfielder i cant see how you can stop them from scoring at least 1. If Figo meant his first goal, it was pure genius, i dont think you can blame the defence for it. The 2nd was Scholes fault, but took a wonderful turn and finish from Raul. The 3rd was just a great finish, yes he should have been closed down but at that point UTD were being run ragged and couldnt get within 3 feet of the ball.

Man U will have to play better than they have done in many years if they are to get through, even better than they did in that infamous tie in Turin.

Ferguson played Butt, Scholes and Keane in midfield to try to pack the centre of the park and stop Real from playing the ball around as they wish in midfield, it didnt work. I have always felt Man U are at their best with a true 4-4-2 formation, with 2 proper strikers (not Scholes playing off one), when they are going all out attack. If i was Ferguson i would have RVN and Solksjaer starting upfront in the home leg to try and take the game to Real.

[Freakozoid]

Originally posted by Haer
"Like that?" He did nt do anything special apart from his goal. Raul and Zidane caused most of the problems. United could be better defensively, but so could Real. If United are on there game at Old trafford, against a defence like that, they will rip them apart. As you said, United were poor. Beckham was terrible, Keane and Butt did nt play as well as they can. Scholes and Giggs caused problems but can do much better. RvN was very good yes, but his finishing let him down at times.

Ultimately, United made two mistakes and Real capatalised on them, and had one true moment of magic. United were let down by finishing, and a few silly mistakes.

Real played better - That does nt make them undeniably the better team.

Figo didn't do much then?
okay.

did you actually watch the match ?

I'm a United fan and I know that Real are a better team.

[Haer]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Different stance from me.

First of all, let me say that i WANTED man utd to win.

I think unfortunately, Real were that good. The quick passing, they way they humiliated Man utd and made them look ordinary. I dont like Real because of their hideous manufactured nature. If they win, its no fun, because they are easily the best side in the world.

The goals were well taken. Theres no way you can say RvN or any other man utd player would "definitely" have finished either of Raul's goals. I wouldnt give them over a 50% chance of finishing like he did. Frankly both of Raul's goals you would not have said "sitter" if they were missed by him.

Also, when you take into account the nice dive by RvN, the handball by barthez, and the fact that Real should have had at least one penalty, 3-1 is a great scoreline for man utd.

My main point though is the hideous overration of Ruud. He scored a goal from all of 3 yards that no one should miss - he might even have been offside. Two minutes later he hit a shot straight at casillas from 6 yards. Instead, the commentators chose to talk about beckhams miss. He was offside a couple of times, fouled a couple of times, and marked brilliantly. I remember him not releasing to scholes once at least too.

Yet he still comes out smelling of roses, because the media hate saying anything against him.
The only thing i can say in his defence is that its NEVER easy playing as a lone striker.

The passing coming forwars was very good yes. I was impressed by how they could play such fast one touch football in such close quarters. But they did nt humiliate United. I thought Rio did well. He broke up alot of Real attacks by getting the foot in, and on occassion would bring the ball forward very well like he needs to start doing for england.

As for Rauls goal, at this level, they were sitters. Yes, his turn was good - But considering these are supposedly the two best teams in the world, Its perfectly reasonable to expect no less. His shot was nicely placed, but he had time to pick his spot - Lots of time. Its the kind of thing that happens a fair bit in the premiership, and every time the focus is on the poor defending. This time it was done by a spanish superstar(omg so good!), so it had to be a deemed a great goal. Again, at this level, and given that amount of time, you expect players to be able to knock the ball into the corner.

Fair enough, United got some breaks for the referree, especially the penalty(I dont consider the Barthez handball a major incident, there was no pressure on him, and it was going for a goal kick, so he gained nothing from it.)

I dont think you can criticise Ruud either. He did *very* well considering the average performance in the United midfield.

Raul has 8 goals in 11games - Ruud has 11 goals in 8 games. That speaks for itself really. He may not be a flashy striker, but he scores goals, and he does it well.

[Haer]

Originally posted by JC
With Barthez running around like a headless chicken, Silvestre going AWOL and the whole Man U failing to get close to any Real midfielder i cant see how you can stop them from scoring at least 1. If Figo meant his first goal, it was pure genius, i dont think you can blame the defence for it. The 2nd was Scholes fault, but took a wonderful turn and finish from Raul. The 3rd was just a great finish, yes he should have been closed down but at that point UTD were being run ragged and couldnt get within 3 feet of the ball.

Man U will have to play better than they have done in many years if they are to get through, even better than they did in that infamous tie in Turin.

Ferguson played Butt, Scholes and Keane in midfield to try to pack the centre of the park and stop Real from playing the ball around as they wish in midfield, it didnt work. I have always felt Man U are at their best with a true 4-4-2 formation, with 2 proper strikers (not Scholes playing off one), when they are going all out attack. If i was Ferguson i would have RVN and Solksjaer starting upfront in the home leg to try and take the game to Real.

Well Scholes it out, but Veron should be back, and he always plays well in Europe, as well as being capable of giving us a moment of magic. United will need a few key players to play to the best of there ability - Beckham, Rio, Ruud, Keane and Giggs especially. All of those are capable of putting in the performance needed though. I do hope Solskjaer starts however. Scholes seems to be rated as the best finisher in the world, but Ole cant be far behind. If we're going to win, we'll need him upfront.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Haer
The passing coming forwars was very good yes. I was impressed by how they could play such fast one touch football in such close quarters. But they did nt humiliate United. I thought Rio did well. He broke up alot of Real attacks by getting the foot in, and on occassion would bring the ball forward very well like he needs to start doing for england.

As for Rauls goal, at this level, they were sitters. Yes, his turn was good - But considering these are supposedly the two best teams in the world, Its perfectly reasonable to expect no less. His shot was nicely placed, but he had time to pick his spot - Lots of time. Its the kind of thing that happens a fair bit in the premiership, and every time the focus is on the poor defending. This time it was done by a spanish superstar(omg so good!), so it had to be a deemed a great goal. Again, at this level, and given that amount of time, you expect players to be able to knock the ball into the corner.

Fair enough, United got some breaks for the referree, especially the penalty(I dont consider the Barthez handball a major incident, there was no pressure on him, and it was going for a goal kick, so he gained nothing from it.)

I dont think you can criticise Ruud either. He did *very* well considering the average performance in the United midfield.

Raul has 8 goals in 11games - Ruud has 11 goals in 8 games. That speaks for itself really. He may not be a flashy striker, but he scores goals, and he does it well.

Can you tell me how many of those goals have been penalties, how many have been sitters, and how many have been goals of genuine class, that a player other than RvN couldnt score?

it has been proved time and time again, put any half decent striker in front of the man utd midfield and they will score

(yorke, cole)

[Freakozoid]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Can you tell me how many of those goals have been penalties, how many have been sitters, and how many have been goals of genuine class, that a player other than RvN couldnt score?

it has been proved time and time again, put any half decent striker in front of the man utd midfield and they will score

(yorke, cole)

yes fair point.

but Rvn is good there is no doubt about it.

Raul, is though in my opinion, an all round better player.
He just seems more comfortable on the ball and he is what like 23 now ?
I think he was 19 when he scored two against United at Old Trafford. Top scorer in champions league history too.
But RvN isn't too bad

[Haer]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Can you tell me how many of those goals have been penalties, how many have been sitters, and how many have been goals of genuine class, that a player other than RvN couldnt score?

it has been proved time and time again, put any half decent striker in front of the man utd midfield and they will score

(yorke, cole)

Its easy to say "It was a sitter", "It was a tap in", but it takes a good degree of position play to get into those kinds of position. Todays goal for instance - The finish was simple, but he managed to lose his marker well and was on the ball like a flash. Not a vintage goal, but thats all he has to do.

Thats not to say he does nt have his moments of magic. He's strong, quick and good on the turn. Many of his goals are simple finishes because he's so good at getting into the position where he can make it a simple finish. Would you rather have a striker who can score a 25yard screamer every 5games, or a striker who'll get 4 sitters in 5games?

[Haer]

Originally posted by Freakozoid
yes fair point.

but Rvn is good there is no doubt about it.

Raul, is though in my opinion, an all round better player.
He just seems more comfortable on the ball and he is what like 23 now ?
I think he was 19 when he scored two against United at Old Trafford. Top scorer in champions league history too.
But RvN isn't too bad

Its like the RvN vs Henrey arguement. Raul is the better alround player, but RvN is the better striker.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Haer
Would you rather have a striker who can score a 25yard screamer every 5games, or a striker who'll get 4 sitters in 5games?

Id rather have one of each.

Or, id rather have James Beattie, who does both. Hes scored all but 3 of sunderlands goals since the turn of the year, hasnt he?

Team goals, sitters, tap ins, clinical finishes, volleys, headers, long range screamers, Beattie has scored a few of each.

I think he'll be at old trafford next season to be honest.

[Haer]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Id rather have one of each.

Or, id rather have James Beattie, who does both. Hes scored all but 3 of sunderlands goals since the turn of the year, hasnt he?

Team goals, sitters, tap ins, clinical finishes, volleys, headers, long range screamers, Beattie has scored a few of each.

I think he'll be at old trafford next season to be honest.

Beattie? Nah, he's good but he strikers me as a very hot and cold player. He'll do brilliantly when he's playing well, but when he's playing badly, he's *really* bad. I also consider him to be more like Heskey - Good when he's the big fish in the small pond. To be honest, he's not even as good as Soljskaer. United need a player like owen whose just very very quick. Ruud is no slouch, but he's an out and out striker, not someone who thrives on through balls. Personally, Id have Vassell. I have nt seem him play much for Villa, but I like him *alot* for England. He's lightning quick, scaring defenders when he runs at them. He also transitioned brilliantly from Villa to England. Papers say about 5million? Sounds like a bargain to me.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Haer
Beattie? Nah, he's good but he strikers me as a very hot and cold player. He'll do brilliantly when he's playing well, but when he's playing badly, he's *really* bad. I also consider him to be more like Heskey - Good when he's the big fish in the small pond. To be honest, he's not even as good as Soljskaer. United need a player like owen whose just very very quick. Ruud is no slouch, but he's an out and out striker, not someone who thrives on through balls. Personally, Id have Vassell. I have nt seem him play much for Villa, but I like him *alot* for England. He's lightning quick, scaring defenders when he runs at them. He also transitioned brilliantly from Villa to England. Papers say about 5million? Sounds like a bargain to me.

Beattie has more goals than Vassell, Rooney, Jeffers, and Heskey put together this season, yet those four make the england squad as strikers and he doesnt.

To be honest, i havent, and i dont think anyone else has, seen a bad performance from Beattie this season. I dont think you can describe him as hot or cold either. He's scored every type of goal, all season. Hes outscoring Henry and Owen and Van Nistelrooy.

He scores near enough every week. And you have your interpretation of "big fish in little pond" muddled up as Beattie faces the same defences every week that Henry Owen and Ruud do. The difference is, Henry has pires, ljunberg, vieira etc behind him, ruud has beckham giggs scholes etc behind him, owen has gerrard, hamann riise behind him, and beattie has...

marsden, reyna, and tessem & co.

I think he's been fantastic this year, less penalties than ruud too (not hard i guess since ruud has scored 12), and at 25 hes just the right age to get at a reasonable price at the end of the season.

[Haer]

Its not the defense he plays against, its the team he plays with. I just dont think he'd do as well with Beckham et al behind him, when he would be overshadowed and just another player, as he does at southampton where he's the star player.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Haer
Its not the defense he plays against, its the team he plays with. I just dont think he'd do as well with Beckham et al behind him, when he would be overshadowed and just another player, as he does at southampton where he's the star player.

no, he wouldnt be the "star" player of course, but hed do the job, and hed do the job well. If your looking for a forward, i dont think you should look any further than Beattie.

what makes you think with better service hed do worse? Hes shown that he can in part "carry" a team, and play as a team player.

Not sure what else a striker can do

[Haer]

Originally posted by Deffeh
no, he wouldnt be the "star" player of course, but hed do the job, and hed do the job well. If your looking for a forward, i dont think you should look any further than Beattie.

what makes you think with better service hed do worse? Hes shown that he can in part "carry" a team, and play as a team player.

Not sure what else a striker can do

Not sure, its just a feeling. Certainly it is something that affects players. Look at heskey for instance. He did well at leicester because the team played to serve him. When he got to liverpool, he found that he would have to change the way he played to suit the teams style and turned in to the wonderful player he is today. Some players can do it, some cant and I fear Beattie cant. Vassell on the other hand has shown he can do it,with his performances for England.

Beattie also strikes me as "Van nistelrooy lite" - There both similar sorts of player. We need a bit of variety up front.

[Haer]

Just watched the highlights on ITV. First half, Real had 1 chance and 1 half chance. The chance being the Scholes mistake and the half chance a shot by Carlos from 25yards.

United on the other hand had RvN through on goal, Butt squandering wide from 15yards, Scholes coming close with a 25yard drive and RvN going close with his overheadand a beckham freekick which he managed to drive into the wall. This was the half Real supposedly dominated.

Yes, they did very well to turn there only chance into a goal, and Figo was brilliant to make his goal from nothing. Real may have had more possession, but they did nt turn it into chances.

The second half was more even, with both sides having a few chances.

This was with Real supposedly playing at the top of there game, and Uniteds midfield underperforming - This is what makes the media coverage so stupid. Real are built up into some sort of wonder team, but they are far from it, and seriously weak at the back.

[JC]

Beattie will make it in a big team if he is given a chance. He went to school with me in Blackburn and is a down to earth guy who will play as a team player rather than always wanting to be the star. He sat in the Rovers reserves for a few seasons and never once complained, he trained hard and learnt from Shearer and just kept waiting for his chance to prove himself. We never gave it him :/. Even then he didnt want to leave us, he is a loyal player and isnt someone that wants to be in the limelight for being the star of the team. Strikers are payed to score goals, i dont see what more the guy can do.

Haer you have a nice pair of rose tinted glasses when it comes to talking about and watching Man U .

Oh and RvN's 11 goals in the Champs League isnt that amazing when you consider that there are now more games played in the competition than a few years ago, so ofc someone is going to score more goals.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by JC
Beattie will make it in a big team if he is given a chance. He went to school with me in Blackburn and is a down to earth guy who will play as a team player rather than always wanting to be the star.

was he the little thin kid who always got picked last?

[Haer]

Originally posted by JC
Beattie will make it in a big team if he is given a chance. He went to school with me in Blackburn and is a down to earth guy who will play as a team player rather than always wanting to be the star. He sat in the Rovers reserves for a few seasons and never once complained, he trained hard and learnt from Shearer and just kept waiting for his chance to prove himself. We never gave it him :/. Even then he didnt want to leave us, he is a loyal player and isnt someone that wants to be in the limelight for being the star of the team. Strikers are payed to score goals, i dont see what more the guy can do.

Haer you have a nice pair of rose tinted glasses when it comes to talking about and watching Man U .

Oh and RvN's 11 goals in the Champs League isnt that amazing when you consider that there are now more games played in the competition than a few years ago, so ofc someone is going to score more goals.

RvN has scored 11 goals in 8 games this season. Thats more than 1 goal per game against the cream of europe. Raul has managed 8 in 11.

[Perle]

Originally posted by LHC
Zidane is overrated though.

He did a stepover with nobody anywhere near him and everybody gasped.

ok a couple of things about yesterday.

1. Zinedine Zidane was absolutely magnificent. In a team filled with superstars he managed o outclass them all.
He was so fantastic. He has such an overview over the game. Its like he is able to freeze time, look around and make the best pass possible in a certain situation.
His first assist to figo was absolutely brilliant. He pretended to pass in and then carresed the ball very gently to figo.
His second assist to raul was also fantastic. To pass the ball so quickl to raul in such a situation was a stroke of a genius. Its just fantastic to see this man play.
He is the absolute star in that team and the best player in the game since the departure of Diego.

2. Raul: He was great. His first goal was a technical masterpiece. I cant believe peopleare saying that it was a sitter. He does have a bad day sometimes though. He isnt always as good as he wa yesterday.

3. Figo: waaaaaaaaaay overrated; His first goal was great. but what did he do after that ?? nothing!!!

4.Ronaldo: a very big disappointment, Now that he is playing in real, its more than obvious to everyone that he is not a world class player like zidane or raul.

5. RVN : a classical middle striker. very valuable, always dangerous and a very good finisher.
I cant understand the criticism . He is great. He has no football technic like raul or henry but he doesnt need one.
He is like Gerd Müller. He did not have anything like that either. He still managed to be the greatest stiker of all time.

6. Manu does not have any chance whatsoever to win against Real. They will most probably lose the home game too.

[lokken]

On to the main topic, if Manchester United aren't going to give the ball to Giggs to run with it, how do you expect them to win?

Unless Manchester United put in a performance of the kind from the last time they won the European Cup, they won't go through - even last time, they only won by the odd goal rather than completely battering teams.

England up front is Owen and Rooney, with Vassell just behind him. These three have all performed for England. Beattie is just the next one in a long line (the last being Kevin Phillips) - scores lots of goals but hasn't got the cutting edge to make it at the highest level.

Beattie is not better than Owen. There's no need to say why.

Beattie is not better than Rooney. Rooney is more than Beattie at 17, his vision is second to none (I was convinced from his assist in the first game of the season, the rest that he's done just confirmed it for me), he's going to be a very special player.

Beattie will not overhaul Vassell. Vassell has a proven track record playing for England, if ain't broke don't fix it.

[Starbucks]

manchester united needs a 3-0 or a 4 goal difference to win, this is not possible

Ferguson ****ed up AGAIN, when will he learn that Solskjaer and Nisteroy up front is the ONLY way they can win this

Giggsy on the left, and beckham on the right

Perhaps Scholes in middle pulling back slightly

a 4-3-1-2 would be very interesting to see

[Slidey]

Originally posted by lokken
On to the main topic, if Manchester United aren't going to give the ball to Giggs to run with it, how do you expect them to win?

Unless Manchester United put in a performance of the kind from the last time they won the European Cup, they won't go through - even last time, they only won by the odd goal rather than completely battering teams.

England up front is Owen and Rooney, with Vassell just behind him. These three have all performed for England. Beattie is just the next one in a long line (the last being Kevin Phillips) - scores lots of goals but hasn't got the cutting edge to make it at the highest level.

Beattie is not better than Owen. There's no need to say why.

Beattie is not better than Rooney. Rooney is more than Beattie at 17, his vision is second to none (I was convinced from his assist in the first game of the season, the rest that he's done just confirmed it for me), he's going to be a very special player.

Beattie will not overhaul Vassell. Vassell has a proven track record playing for England, if ain't broke don't fix it.

rooney hasnt done anything yet. he might do in the future, but at the moment he hasnt even played 10 full games at the top level yet! (and he missed a free header which was laid back for him).

i know heskey doesnt finish as much as a striker does, but he sets up a hell of a lot of goals, and his workrate is superb.. this is why they tried to make a left winger out of him.. i'd still have heskey over rooney, but i think it'd be nice for beattie, fowler and vassell to have a bit of a run and see if they do ok.. the problem with england is if you dont do enough the first and second time, you wont necessarily get a third time, and some of these players need a chance to 'bond' with the midfielders. its a shame it doesnt happen

as for last nights match, i didnt watch much but ive read some of your comments.. the difference between a 'good' player and a 'world class' player is one who takes his opportunities however they come. none of this 'mistake by scholes' or whatever, the point is he took the chance as it came

[Starbucks]

Smith > Rooney

just thought i would state the ****ing obvious there

[Slidey]

good call, forgot about him..

he had a great game the other day against charlton

[lokken]

Originally posted by Starbucks
Smith > Rooney

just thought i would state the ****ing obvious there

Yes, so when he tries to 'large it' around some world class defender he will get himself sent off. Until he learns to control himself on a regular basis, Smith will always be a no no for England.

[Haer]

Originally posted by Perle
ok a couple of things about yesterday.

1. Zinedine Zidane was absolutely magnificent. In a team filled with superstars he managed o outclass them all.
He was so fantastic. He has such an overview over the game. Its like he is able to freeze time, look around and make the best pass possible in a certain situation.

His first assist to figo was absolutely brilliant. He pretended to pass in and then carresed the ball very gently to figo.


This is the kind of rubbish Im talking about. He made a 5, 10? yard pass. He managed to disguise it. Sorry, but thats not a great feat at this level.


His second assist to raul was also fantastic. To pass the ball so quickl to raul in such a situation was a stroke of a genius.


He played a quick through ball? Wow. Such world class play. I wish Man United had someone who could do that - Oh wait, they do. In fact, half the players in Europe could have played the through ball.


2. Raul: He was great. His first goal was a technical masterpiece. I cant believe peopleare saying that it was a sitter. He does have a bad day sometimes though. He isnt always as good as he wa yesterday.


He had time to pick his spot. He did well to take it, but if he had missed it would have been a chance squandered.


4.Ronaldo: a very big disappointment, Now that he is playing in real, its more than obvious to everyone that he is not a world class player like zidane or raul.


I thought he was quite good, always causing problems. Unlucky in that he was man marcked by Rio, while Raul had Wes Brown marking him. Rio was experienced enough after the World cup to deal with him well. He still caused some problems though, and had a definate penalty not given.


5. RVN : a classical middle striker. very valuable, always dangerous and a very good finisher.
I cant understand the criticism . He is great. He has no football technic like raul or henry but he doesnt need one.
He is like Gerd Müller. He did not have anything like that either. He still managed to be the greatest stiker of all time.


He does have some technique. Not in the Henry class, but he's very good at turning his marker, and for a big guy he's good at beating defenders.

[Haer]

Originally posted by Starbucks
manchester united needs a 3-0 or a 4 goal difference to win, this is not possible

Ferguson ****ed up AGAIN, when will he learn that Solskjaer and Nisteroy up front is the ONLY way they can win this

Giggsy on the left, and beckham on the right

Perhaps Scholes in middle pulling back slightly

a 4-3-1-2 would be very interesting to see

Erm? 2 - 0 will do it for United.

[Haer]

Originally posted by Slidey

as for last nights match, i didnt watch much but ive read some of your comments.. the difference between a 'good' player and a 'world class' player is one who takes his opportunities however they come. none of this 'mistake by scholes' or whatever, the point is he took the chance as it came

He did well to take the chance, but Scholes should nt be making the mistake he did(Caught in possession in the edge of his box). Usually he would nt, and so Raul would nt have had the chance he did.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Freakozoid
Silvestre was shocking as i knew he would be. Piss poor first touch against the likes of Madrid will reveal you for the utter pile of muck that he is.

He's the French center-back. So he can't be good.

I think the fact he was carrying a bad hamstring injury may have contributed, don't you?

I say Ferdinand & Silvestre at center-back, with O'Shea on the right.

We showed them too much respect. Only after RVN scored did MU realise that they *could* beat them. Could have been 6-0 or 3-3 in fairness. Old Trafford is gonna see one hell of a show on the 23rd, I predict!

Hehe, all the the Liverpool/Arsenal fans ripping the piss... thing is... we're the ones in the quarters, playing Real Madrid

M.

[JC]

Originally posted by Perle

He is like Gerd Müller. He did not have anything like that either. He still managed to be the greatest stiker of all time.

I agreed with everything until you said that .

Haer - the difference between Zidane and any other player in Europe is that he consistantly does what he did last night. Most players can do the step overs, lollipops, switching of feet, drag backs etc, fs even i can do them on the park with my mates, but he has the skill and confidence to pull it off in the big games against the best defenders, that is what separates him out from everyone else. You say how Zidane set up the goals was simple, but the thing is Zidane did what was needed. Very often whats done doesnt have to be an outstanding piece of skill for it to be a great piece of football, the simple things are the most important part of the game.

[Reidy]

Originally posted by lokken

England up front is Owen and Rooney, with Vassell just behind him. These three have all performed for England. Beattie is just the next one in a long line (the last being Kevin Phillips)

*SNARL*


inter will win the champions league coz they have vieri the only player in europe better than superkev

knockout football is made for the italians

[lokken]

Originally posted by Reidy
*SNARL*


inter will win the champions league coz they have vieri the only player in europe better than superkev

knockout football is made for the italians :D

Upsetting but true though, isn't it. If Superkev was anywhere near as good as Vieri, Sunderland wouldn't be in their predicament. He's good but he's not that good.

I think it will be AC Milan who will win the champions league.

Anyway, best of luck next season in your promotion push. Any decent players up for sale that 'arry could get for a snip? ;)

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by lokken
Upsetting but true though, isn't it. If Superkev was anywhere near as good as Vieri, Sunderland wouldn't be in their predicament. He's good but he's not that good.

I think it will be AC Milan who will win the champions league.

Anyway, best of luck next season in your promotion push. Any decent players up for sale that 'arry could get for a snip?

even though hes an ex ger, id take reyna.

[Reidy]

Originally posted by lokken
Upsetting but true though, isn't it. If Superkev was anywhere near as good as Vieri, Sunderland wouldn't be in their predicament. He's good but he's not that good.

I think it will be AC Milan who will win the champions league.

Anyway, best of luck next season in your promotion push. Any decent players up for sale that 'arry could get for a snip?

phillips is a quality player, he'll proove that next season when he's in a team that can pass the ball. As for players, we have a squad of 40 and we need it down to 25. The high earners are the ones that are for sale but nobody wants them with sorenson and phillips as the exceptions. if i was 'arry' i'd have a think about reyna and possibly piper and arca too. McCann is a very good player too