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Unread 7 May 2007, 17:14   #1
Heartless
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Only tweak stats between rounds

This idea comes from this thread.

Basically, do not radically change stats every round, just analyze what was wrong last round and then tweak stats so that they are more going into a "balanced" direction.

Reasons for this suggestions include:

- Stats can hardly be balanced during beta due to speedgames (a beta is nothing different) having a different playing style (less time to organize defense, thus more attack fleet; not a widespread audience to see how different people play the races)
- Major stats changes between rounds tend to confuse people, even the more experienced players tend to get annoyed that one ship now targets something different after targetting FI for several rounds.

Thoughts?
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Unread 7 May 2007, 17:20   #2
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

I think it depends really on how bad the currents rounds stats are - for example if the entire philosophy behind them was flawed then an entirely new set is probabaly needed, but if it would be possible to tweak them then tweaking makes sense. The other thought might be that an entirely new set makes things interesting, however given our historic ability to get stats right, tweaking is probably the best approach.

Tweaking also has additional benefits:
- ship descriptions don't need changing
- we could actually get round to haveing some ship images if they don;t radically change all the time.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 18:00   #3
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

As pointed out in the other thread: It's not business of the stats to make the game interesting. Stats are supposed to provide the combat details, and as such, make combats profitable for every race. Not the game overall. To have such combats you need balanced stats and not a brand-new set of untested stats every round.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 18:02   #4
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

I fully support this suggestion. We need more set stats on ships.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 18:36   #5
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Can we please see a poll on this issue? The poll should include the following:
Keep doing stats from scratch
tweak the current set
tweak an older set (there have been several suggestions as to which ones in the other thread)
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Unread 7 May 2007, 18:41   #6
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Tweak an older set.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 18:51   #7
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

I assume that would be r20 as that was the only other round with 5 races?
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Unread 7 May 2007, 19:10   #8
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

I'd agree totally with just tweaking things.

Trying to come up with a good set from scratch, then trying to get it "tested" in the "beta" is unproductive.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 20:18   #9
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I assume that would be r20 as that was the only other round with 5 races?
The question then becomes: are the r20 or r21 stats the best base?
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Unread 7 May 2007, 20:38   #10
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Alternatively, add Etd into the Round 17 stats.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 20:39   #11
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

While I agree with Heartless that the stats team shouldn't be responsible for making the game interesting, practice has that it often is. Besides, the stats are among the most easily changed aspects of the game, and unless I am mistaken, PA team is not exactly overstaffed. The stats offer an easy way out, and until there's a better way available, we should keep this in mind.

That said, I don't think the current situation is ideal. It should be quite clear by now that making a new set of stats each round is inefficient and that they never come out exactly the way they were intended. That means that the easiest way out for PA team is the worst way out for the balance between the races. For the balance it'd be perfect if the same set of stats were to be used each round, with only minor tweaks being done in between.

Since neither alternative is perfect, it seems to me that alternating between several sets of stats and tweaking them as required is the best of both worlds.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 21:22   #12
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Alternatively, add Etd into the Round 17 stats.
are the r17 stats commonly regarded as the most balenced?
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Unread 7 May 2007, 21:25   #13
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Alternatively, add Etd into the Round 17 stats.
As soon as you add a race to any set of balanced stats it totally unbalances them as you add a whole new layer of complexity. This being said it doesn't mean r17 stats can't be used as a starting point, but they would still need to be tweaked to accomodate the 5th race, unless we go back to 4.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 21:26   #14
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
are the r17 stats commonly regarded as the most balenced?
This is why I wanted a poll.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 21:52   #15
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

me personally thinks that round 13 stats with now the stealer's dying would be a good solution

But thats just me. Anyways, this is one of the things I've really been fighting for a while. I think that if the stats are less changing a lot of people will find it easier to return to the game and enjoying it more. Ofc if we use r21's stats they need to be tweaked abit to present a survivable Terran fleet, but thats as mentioned only details. I like this rounds stats tbh.
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Unread 7 May 2007, 22:25   #16
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

This round really aint bad, except for terran getting roided to hell and back again.

Also, I agree with Monroe: It's useless to pick a set of stats for the pre-Eitrades era. That'll just make it hard to balance.
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Unread 8 May 2007, 01:06   #17
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

hey dont worry, in another 5 rounds or so there will only be about 12 ppl left playing, automatic top10 no matter how crap the stats are if you figure zhil and forest are playing.
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Unread 8 May 2007, 12:10   #18
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Tweaking also has additional benefits:
- ship descriptions don't need changing
- we could actually get round to haveing some ship images if they don;t radically change all the time.
Its not like the ship description ever gets changed tho

But yes, dont change stats each round. It dont work and everyone knows it
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Unread 15 May 2007, 15:54   #19
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Re: Only tweak stats between rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
Stats are better this round than last !

Terrans are too weak.

Reuse these stats with some tweaking next round !
I've advocated reusing the stats many many times and I'm glad its getting a little bit of interest !

The main argument I see is that changing the stats keeps things interesting - but its just a change of what hits what ! It's like paper scissors stone with three different objects.

As many players have a favourite race to suit their playing style it would be ideal to have well balanced stats rather than forcing them to play the strongest race.

Get the poll online !
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