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3 Aug 2014, 14:16
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#101
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Not saying there shouldn't be tweaks here and there, but they look fairly reasonable to me.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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3 Aug 2014, 15:16
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#102
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Not saying there shouldn't be tweaks here and there, but they look fairly reasonable to me.
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Well i personaly dont like these stats, but i can see them being playable.
I do expect a lot of whine when we come to mid round over useless stats.
The emp eff is fcked up, they need to be far more effective.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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3 Aug 2014, 15:25
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#103
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Mordar, Keel, Reip
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 333
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
The last set that papadoc gave out was (IMO) pretty good, fairly balanced and gave every race a fair change to land against every race, after Appocos tweaks... they really aren't that anymore. Xan is now open against everything really (when co had minor difficulties in landing, and BS still may have to even teamup to land). FI in general is now obsolete (either than massing it as a defship to send on suicide missions). CO in general became a shitload stronger against everything (especially in teamups, that we all know will happen). BS is pretty sucky as well, which it was not in papadocs final set. CO/CR were the winners after Appocomasters "balancing" and CR was strong even before. FR and DE are still pretty viable imo, FI and BS became purely defships. Cath CO can solo everyone again and add to that zik/etd partner...
Will surely make a hugfest of a round, again :/
__________________
Wolf in a pirates clothing to the highest degree, standing behind the curtains.
All the war propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. - George Orwell
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3 Aug 2014, 15:45
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#104
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Can these stats now be viewed in-game - or are they still being worked on?
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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3 Aug 2014, 15:57
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 297
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
The EMP eff/res surely cant be even Close to fninished?
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What's wrong with them?
and these should be final:
http://game.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats
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3 Aug 2014, 16:13
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#106
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Planetarion Manual
Cathaar (Cat)
The Cathaar race are a humanoid feline race highly progressed in the field of non harmful attack. Cathaar can only kill half of the ship types, but they can EMP (stun) any ship in the game.
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... except that Cat's only anti-Cr is two (yes two) single-target, non-EMP ships.
I chose that error in the Manual to emphasise the point I was making about the Scarab and Avenger. There are doubtless many other errors including Zik being able to "steal any enemy ship".
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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3 Aug 2014, 16:45
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#107
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
But giving them "Normal" ships is a way of balancing the races.
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mxy
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3 Aug 2014, 17:14
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#108
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
...including Zik being able to "steal any enemy ship".
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except for the fact that they aren't
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3 Aug 2014, 18:40
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Thank you, captain obvious.
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3 Aug 2014, 19:39
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#110
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
By the way, Baliff's ERes is atrocious; it is 2.5x weaker to EMP than Etd's main Bs ships. calc
On the flipside, Rambler is insanely strong against EMP, Vipers would have it hard enough against Etd Fr, shooting second. calc
Intentional or oversight?
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4 Aug 2014, 06:25
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#111
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 297
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Since they both show 'normal' efficiency in the statsanalysis, it's likely an oversight. Guess the Pods need to have around equal the costs of the other ships in their class, so these things dont happen.
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4 Aug 2014, 06:50
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
By the way, Baliff's ERes is atrocious; it is 2.5x weaker to EMP than Etd's main Bs ships. calc
[/url] |
i hope it was an oversight
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 06:52
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
The ER RES
Guardian 109%
Dreadnaught 118%
Baliff 185%
someone should change that
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 06:54
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#114
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
infact the whole emp eff needs an overhaul its way too powerful, unless we're wanting the ever popular cath domination of t100 as usual?
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 06:56
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
also aesthetically Avenger has 18 guns but is a norm ship
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 06:58
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
also not sure what the impacts of having the resource stealing ship stealing same init as pods. would that reduce caps depending on amount of roids stolen visa verse?
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 10:55
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Dunno whats the problem with the galleon but atm its insanely broken and stealing 25 times as much as it should so its bound to be fixed. If not the top 100 value players should be 100% zik
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4 Aug 2014, 11:20
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#118
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
it can only steal what's available
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 11:35
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 297
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu
Dunno whats the problem with the galleon but atm its insanely broken and stealing 25 times as much as it should so its bound to be fixed. If not the top 100 value players should be 100% zik
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Doesn't it steal a % of the resources the target has at landing?
Must be very good in beta and havoc, but in real round when your target is online before you land, it seems kinda pointless?
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4 Aug 2014, 11:40
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#120
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
5k galleon steal over 6mil resources
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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4 Aug 2014, 11:42
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#121
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
yeah its very hard to find idle players..
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4 Aug 2014, 13:52
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#122
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KK
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 662
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh
Doesn't it steal a % of the resources the target has at landing?
Must be very good in beta and havoc, but in real round when your target is online before you land, it seems kinda pointless?
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Will still steal a ticks worth of resources.
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4 Aug 2014, 14:24
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#123
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Error
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 359
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
There is no maxcap for resources?
__________________
#braSilFTW
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4 Aug 2014, 16:08
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#124
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph
There is no maxcap for resources?
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25% of planets stock + income from tick you land.
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4 Aug 2014, 16:29
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#125
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Hibernating
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Time for "the cousins" to start "playing" again? 
__________________
[InSomnia]
Official designated driver
[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
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4 Aug 2014, 17:55
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#126
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I've been around
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 385
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
To void further confusion with ship names.
I suggest next round.
Terran Fighter Ship One
Terran Fighter Ship Two
Terran Corvette Ship One
ETC ETC
But, more importantly
Cathaar Figther EMP Ship One
Cathaar Fighter KILL Ship One
Zikonian Fighter Steal Ship One
Zikonian Fighte Kill Ship One
This will avoid Mantis being a confused with EMP. Or even a random ship for cath called "Avenger".( I googled Avenger Bug... nothing) Thiefs confused as a Kill ship. Or any other confusion there has been over the rounds. Each race has a "Theme". The ship names are supposed to follow that theme.
Cath
Emp = Bugs with Venom
Kill = Bugs that kill without venom
Zik (should be straight forward)
Clipper kills
Thief steals
Cutter kills
Rogue kills (war ship)
Pirate steals
__________________
-=Faceless=-
-=Forever VisioN=-
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4 Aug 2014, 18:30
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#127
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Cat has never been purely about bugs, not even if we (incorrectly) take that term to include the arachnids. See the Viper, Avenger, Guardian, Defender and Window Maker, all of which have been used by Cat before, and many multiple times.
Etd, at various points in their history, including round 57, took not just ship types from other races, but the associated race's ship names as well.
And finally, there has never been a name split between kill and steal ships for Zik. That said, the Thief as a non-stealing ship does seem a little odd, for how unambiguously it's named.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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4 Aug 2014, 23:43
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#128
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
indeed mz, the originality of the ship name is just Down to wich round you were a part of.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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5 Aug 2014, 00:27
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#129
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Baliff was an oversight, it should be brought in line.
My bad.
Also werent the ship names thrown out the window when we stopped using the full xan names how many so rounds ago?
__________________
BOOM
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5 Aug 2014, 01:07
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#130
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I've been around
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 385
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Cat has never been purely about bugs, not even if we (incorrectly) take that term to include the arachnids. See the Viper, Avenger, Guardian, Defender and Window Maker, all of which have been used by Cat before, and many multiple times.
Etd, at various points in their history, including round 57, took not just ship types from other races, but the associated race's ship names as well.
And finally, there has never been a name split between kill and steal ships for Zik. That said, the Thief as a non-stealing ship does seem a little odd, for how unambiguously it's named.
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yes sorry i screwed that up. Not bugs with venom but, "things that stop moment before killing/eating prey"
either way. the other names you listed. Avenger, Guardian, Defender and Window Maker <-- mistakes with naming.
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-=Faceless=-
-=Forever VisioN=-
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6 Aug 2014, 11:20
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#131
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Avenger still has 18 guns
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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6 Aug 2014, 11:48
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#132
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_esper
avenger still has 18 guns
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they are final - deal with it
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6 Aug 2014, 13:59
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#133
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 84
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Why does ETD not have an SK!
FFS :<
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6 Aug 2014, 14:35
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#134
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 52
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
because they are the only race with 3 pods
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6 Aug 2014, 14:54
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#135
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Hibernating
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
You can always steal termites or liquidators if you really have to sk as an etd
__________________
[InSomnia]
Official designated driver
[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
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10 Aug 2014, 16:40
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#136
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
On the flipside, Rambler is insanely strong against EMP, Vipers would have it hard enough against Etd Fr, shooting second. calc |
I hadn't even noticed that at the time, but the Rambler's simply much more expensive than its other classmates. This shouldn't be much of an issue later on for killships, since you'd need to crash a lot of value, but for EMP this will stay an issue throughout the round.
I've already ran into this though, which showcases why the difference is too big. It takes twice as many (unfrozen) Bombers to kill off the pods as it does for Rangers.
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