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30 Mar 2006, 16:07
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#1
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Bugger
Well, I had hoped the Lords would have some sort of backbone thus forcing the Commons to either give it up or risk the wrath incurred by using the Parliament Act yet again. However, despite their objections so far, the thought of an all-nighter down at Westminster got the better of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
Anyone who renews a passport will be put on a national ID database - but will not now be forced to have an ID card until 2010, instead of 2008.
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Looks like I renewed mine just in time then! Hopefully we won't be called on for compulsary registration til after the next general election, where I will, frankly, be voting for anyone who promises to scrap the bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
The "pricing strategy" for ID cards would be determined after the bill becomes law, he told MPs.
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Does this strike anyone else as a really really stupid idea? Clearly it's done so that there won't be such a big backlash from the public when they find out that they need to pay upwards of £150 each for a useless bit of plastic and silicon, because they can just say "ahhh but you should have protested at the time, it's law now!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
He said it meant "nobody who does not want an ID card need have one before the next election - and that in itself is worth having" - but he added a Conservative government would still repeal the legislation.
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Uh oh, looks like I might have to vote Tory...
Believe it or not, a comment on Slashdot does an admirable job of summing up why all this is pointless - for the public anyway. We get nothing from this. All that happens is the government bullies us into paying for them to monitor us more closely.
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Last edited by meglamaniac; 30 Mar 2006 at 17:10.
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30 Mar 2006, 16:21
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#2
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Bugger
That comment wasn't bad, actually. Right up to the point that he said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashdot dude
of course there's the third alternative: Tony creates patently illegal legislation, and Chery and Matrix chambers take the government to court, creating a perpetual money machine for the Blair family.
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There is no such thing as illegal legislation. It's impossible.
The Queen-in-council (read: Parliament) is sovereign. If the Queen gives a Bill the Royal Assent, it is the law of the land. It cannot be illegal. Those Countryside Alliance leaders who tried to get the Hunting Act struck down lost on a fair few grounds, but in the judgement it was re-affirmed that Parliament is sovereign.
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30 Mar 2006, 16:31
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#3
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
right then
time for a conservative government.
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30 Mar 2006, 16:31
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#4
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: Bugger
Yeah, well I think that bit was more thrown in as a "if you were a conspiracy nut, this is how you might see it" sort of thing.
Thankfully it's still possible to challenge legislation on the basis of it being "unconstitutional", insofar as we have one. I'm fairly sure if Labour get back in at the next election, we'll see a challenge on that basis, or on the Human Rights act, or even to the EC Human Rights court, or maybe combinations of those. Most probably coming from the NO2ID group - and good on them for their stand I say.
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30 Mar 2006, 16:35
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#5
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
That comment wasn't bad, actually. Right up to the point that he said this:
There is no such thing as illegal legislation. It's impossible.
The Queen-in-council (read: Parliament) is sovereign. If the Queen gives a Bill the Royal Assent, it is the law of the land. It cannot be illegal. Those Countryside Alliance leaders who tried to get the Hunting Act struck down lost on a fair few grounds, but in the judgement it was re-affirmed that Parliament is sovereign.
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nevertheless an act can be declared incompatible with the ECHR ... which is the sort of work cherie and matrix do ... so he has actually got a point.
edit: oh and of course the barrister doesn't have to win the case to make money (just in case you start going through the possibilities of success)
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30 Mar 2006, 16:44
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#6
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
Churchill on the need for ID cards:
... this is because the life of their country is in mortal peril, or for the sake of the cause of freedom in some other land. They give them freely as a sacrifice. It is quite true that the conditions of Socialism play a great part in war-time. We all submit to being ordered about to save our country. But when the war is over and the imminent danger to our existence is removed, we cast off these shackles and burdens which we imposed upon ourselves in times of dire and mortal peril, and quit the gloomy caverns of war and march out into the breezy fields, where the sun is shining and where all may walk joyfully in its warm and golden rays.
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30 Mar 2006, 16:57
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#7
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
nevertheless an act can be declared incompatible with the ECHR ... which is the sort of work cherie and matrix do ... so he has actually got a point.
edit: oh and of course the barrister doesn't have to win the case to make money (just in case you start going through the possibilities of success)
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Bollocks. I was writing the previous post and thought of that, then forgot about it when I got to the end. Cheers for the reminder, you're absolutly right on all counts.
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30 Mar 2006, 17:09
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#8
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: Bugger
The more I hear of Churchill the more I wish he could be brought back to be PM again
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30 Mar 2006, 18:39
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#9
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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Re: Bugger
We could just vote in the churchill insurance dog. Hed make a magnificent PM. Noone would really know what he was thinking either as all he can do is nod yes or no.
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31 Mar 2006, 00:10
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#10
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Bugger
I'm gonna have to update my passport in 2009 and then hope it all gets kicked out in the following 10 years...
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31 Mar 2006, 00:23
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#11
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Bugger
UKPS (United Kingdom Passport Service) changes it's name on April 1st.
I was told what it's called today.
I can't remember though (i shall re-check my e-mail tomorrow*).
*tension like this is the stuff of Hollywood blockbusters
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31 Mar 2006, 00:25
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#12
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The Queen-in-council (read: Parliament) is sovereign.
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You're confusing The Queen-in-Parliament (Queen + Lords + Commons) and The Queen-in-Council (Queen + Privy Council). The Queen-in-Parliament makes Acts of Parliament and The Queen-in-Council makes Orders-in-Council.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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31 Mar 2006, 00:33
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#13
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
You're confusing The Queen-in-Parliament (Queen + Lords + Commons) and The Queen-in-Council (Queen + Privy Council). The Queen-in-Parliament makes Acts of Parliament and The Queen-in-Council makes Orders-in-Council.
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A shocker.
Cheers Proteus. I put down the first one I remembered without checking if it was right first .
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31 Mar 2006, 00:39
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#14
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
you're not doing to well on the 'ole law thing today
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31 Mar 2006, 00:51
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#15
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Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a bush where you can't find me
Posts: 2,474
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
UKPS (United Kingdom Passport Service) changes it's name on April 1st.
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o rly?
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31 Mar 2006, 00:56
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#16
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Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
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Re: Bugger
Itll cost me £150 for an ID card. For the UK. Sorry Tony, **** Off.
And i dont WANT to be paying money for the privilege of the UK Government knowing everything about me when I dont technically live in their country, nor do I wish "Big Brother" to be telling me what colour socks I wore on Sunday morning.
The whole things a shambles. If I were a voter (and this brings a lump to my throat the size of Kylie's arse) id be voting conservative to get the ****ing thing repealed. Along with a huge amount of the other absoloute shite that Tony's forced through Parliament since 9/11.
Complete Toss. I genuinely regret now having supported them for many years.
(PS : I actually dont believe the tories would repeal the bloody thing, its a vote winner, thats all. I think theyre about as Honest as that mad ****er Moussaui whos trying to get himself executed just now in the US).
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It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
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31 Mar 2006, 00:57
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#17
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Bugger
I've lost my passport, when is the best time to get it replaced and avoid this nonsense? (and how much will it cost?)
Tell me oh internet (i.e. Dace).
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31 Mar 2006, 00:59
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#18
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
o rly?
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Yes they'll be called the 'office of social control'
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31 Mar 2006, 01:01
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#19
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Bugger
Adult passport = £51
Prices will be going up again in December (they were £44 last November).
I'd maybe wait a couple of months or so (if you don't need it right now) cause they're currently changing over to biometric passports (some passports being issued at the moment are biometric but not every one is ... biometric passports at the moment just take in your "face map" type thing but it might save you some grief years down the line getting a biometric passport now).
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31 Mar 2006, 01:01
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#20
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I've lost my passport, when is the best time to get it replaced and avoid this nonsense? (and how much will it cost?)
Tell me oh internet (i.e. Dace).
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i think it's after 2008 you can voluntarily opt out of the card, but they still record your details (fingerprints etc). So I'd advise before 2008.
but i too would like clarification on the guidelines (i could wait and read every statutory instrument for the next few years ... but dace will get told it anyway so why bother)
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31 Mar 2006, 01:04
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#21
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Yes they'll be called the 'office of social control'
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It's something like the "Passport and Identity Agency" but i dont think it is.
Personally i think it should have been called " National Identity and Passport Service".
But that's just me.
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31 Mar 2006, 01:17
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#22
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Bugger
"Identity and Passport Agency"
(i "phoned a friend")
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31 Mar 2006, 01:21
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#23
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: Bugger
Someone make up a fancy passport & identity acronym to fit FASCISTS plsta.
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31 Mar 2006, 01:22
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#24
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Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
"Identity and Passport Agency"
(i "phoned a friend")
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*ahem*
IPA has been, and always will be, Rebus' drink of choice. And no name change from some agency with an identity crisis is going to change that.
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And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
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31 Mar 2006, 01:27
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#25
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Bugger
Shit i was wrong
Identity and Passport Service (IPS).
Looks like somebody bottled out of making it a National service though.
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31 Mar 2006, 01:29
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#26
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Bugger
Having an "Identity Service" already sounds pretty scary actually.
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31 Mar 2006, 01:30
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#27
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Having an "Identity Service" already sounds pretty scary actually.
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i'm going to be forced into civil disobedience dante
what will become of me?
I will be no better than you
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31 Mar 2006, 09:19
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#28
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Adult passport = £51
Prices will be going up again in December (they were £44 last November).
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Is that to renew your passport or get a new one?
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31 Mar 2006, 10:45
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#29
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you're not doing to well on the 'ole law thing today
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Clearly the only option is to repeal the HRA and change the names that refer to the Queen-in-Council and Queen-in-Parliament so that I was right all along.
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31 Mar 2006, 12:05
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#30
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Having an "Identity Service" already sounds pretty scary actually.
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Time to move to liberal america!
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31 Mar 2006, 15:06
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#31
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Time to move to liberal america!
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I hear it's the land of the free.
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31 Mar 2006, 23:29
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#32
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Is that to renew your passport or get a new one?
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Same price for renewal or new adult passport (different price for children).
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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1 Apr 2006, 10:21
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#33
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Damn Dog
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Bugger
it aint really the id card so much as the big **** off centralised database im not happy with.
realistically tho, this is way to complicated and the government is bound to **** it up beyond recognition like they do with anything involving computers (aint there still trouble with the national gun regsitry thing that was meant to be brought in after dumblane?)
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1 Apr 2006, 10:28
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#34
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Bugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
realistically tho, this is way to complicated and the government is bound to **** it up beyond recognition like they do with anything involving computers
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Yeah, I think there's only a few things you can be sure of.
1. The project will go over deadline.
2. The project will go over budget.
3. The whole contract for running the thing will go to some company with a history of going over-budget and over-deadline. Probably someone like Capita* despite the fact they ****ed up the CRB stuff and are generally seen as rubbish (their uninspired nickname in most local authorities is unsurprisingly, Crapita).
* = http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4836024.stm (lol etc)
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1 Apr 2006, 10:33
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#35
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Damn Dog
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Bugger
chairman bloke of capita says:
"As I have made clear, this was entirely my own decision as an individual, made in good faith as a long-standing supporter of the party."
our survey says: who on earth does he actually think is going to believe that. i know people lie, its only natural, but to lie when everyone knows you are lying takes something special. he must carry his balls round in a wheel barrow to think he could get away with that one!
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