Expantion OF PA Community.

[Fr0sten]

Now we all know planetarion is not going to get bigger sitting where it is @ NetGamers.

I am not Suggesting this because of my problems @ Netgamers in fact far from it.

I am Suggesting this in the best interests of planetarion!

Now this is a simple case of numbers and also for the better of the future of planetarion.

-
There are 14 users and 152234 invisible on 36 servers
81 operator(s) online
29 unknown connection(s)
144607 channels formed
I have 11290 clients and 1 servers
-

Quakenet has better services and also offers the same status as Planetarion has with NetGamers, I have been speaking to a few IRC Operators on qukanet and jolt already have a large community on quakenet and there is also other well known channels such as #multiplay and other large Games such as counter strike and other games. Quakenet is fastly becoming the largest Gaming network in the world.

There is also NO LIMIT on the amount of channels you can register or nicknames. The IRC Operators are very friendly and jolt already has an IRC Server linked to quakenet like it does at NetGamers,

I have once again spoken out and been G-Lined because of this. well quite frankly

I will reply again to this thread if you want to know what happened.

[Nadar]

uh... #planetarion on Quakenet was started so they could have a closer "relation" to the people on Quakenet, not because of the shit service of Netgamers. I've never had any problems with Netgamers and tbh I don't think there's any major problems.

[Kal]

If people have issues with one of our partners, in this case netgamers that cannot be resolved directly they should come to us with detailed accounts and evidence so that we can take action. Until we see a good reason not to, netgamers will remain part of Planetarion's long term strategy.

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by Kal

If people have issues with one of our partners, in this case netgamers that cannot be resolved directly they should come to us with detailed accounts and evidence so that we can take action. Until we see a good reason not to, netgamers will remain part of Planetarion's long term strategy.

Kal,

Even you have been to Quakenet do you remember my bot idea which was talked about and setup 4 - 5 months ago and NG IRC Operators Stamped on our idea to Link #Planetarion with other major networks to try and get the word out to more people and thus expand the channel into other realms. Basicly using bots to link #Planetarion with other networks such as, DALnet / Quakenet / Undernet / EFnet. So #Planetarion could talk with users on other networks and visa versa.

If Planetarion moved to Quakenet I think there would be a massive increase in player base and also there would be more money for planetarion which means Jolt could most likely start paying the lovely work you all do.

I do not see any harm in a few of the Alliances Moving to Quakenet and also the rest of the community helping support Planetarion by simply typing the following command...

/server -m irc.quakenet.org
/join #Planetarion
/join #jolt
and any other channels that might interest them... Already people have come to quakenet and setup camp! I would urge alliances to register there channels/nicknames on quakenet.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Fr0sten

Kal,

Even you have been to Quakenet which was setup 4 - 5 months ago and NG Stamped on our idea to Link #Planetarion with other major networks to try and get the word out to more people and thus expand the channel into other realms.

If Planetarion moved to Quakenet I think there would be a massive increase in player base and also there would be more money for planetarion which means Jolt could most likely start paying the lovely work you all do.

I do not see any harm in a few of the Alliances Moving to Quakenet and also the rest of the community helping support Planetarion by simply typing the following command...

/server -m irc.quakenet.org
/join #Planetarion
/join #jolt
and any other channels that might interest them... Already people have come to quakenet and setup camp! I would urge alliances to register there channels/nicknames on quakenet.

Fr0sten, while in some ways linking channels across networks would be useful. Theese are the sort of things that only PATeam could realisitcly investigate due to our close relationship with ng. However, personalyl I think linked channels tend to be ugly and have a negative effect on communication.

I don't think that changing networks would have any real effect on income, and in fact its worth pointing out that recently other games similar to PA have moved to netgamers - so clearly netgamers does have its benefits over other networks. The majority of out potential market are ex players or players of similar games, most of which can be found on this network.

I would hazard a guess that bar netgamers closing down, the only reason we would leave netgamers is if we made a strategic decision to abandon irc as a communications system. However, that sort of move would only be viable if our playerbase had outgrown the network, which does not seem liekly in the immediate future.

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by Kal

I don't think that changing networks would have any real effect on income, and in fact its worth pointing out that recently other games similar to PA have moved to netgamers.

Yes mostly these are Planetarion CopyCats / Spinoffs that try and take the userbase away from planetarion! For instance ********** etc...

I have noticed if you whois the whole of the #planetarion channel you will find one or two of the users in there playing other games that are similar to planetarion for example ********! To be honest I think Planetarion should really Get Global Trademarks / Copyright / Patants. This will prevent further spin-offs.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Fr0sten

Yes mostly these are Planetarion CopyCats / Spinoffs that try and take the userbase away from planetarion! For instance ********** etc...

I have noticed if you whois the whole of the #planetarion channel you will find one or two of the users in there playing other games that are similar to planetarion for example ********! To be honest I think Planetarion should really Get Global Trademarks / Copyright / Patants. This will prevent further spin-offs.

It's not possible to copyright a broad game concept. Planetarion has in the past (iirc) taken action against identical games to PA, but they don't have to differentiate themselves by much in order to become legal.

Besides, taking action now would be like shutting the door after several herds have bolted.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by QuakeNet FAQ

You can't own a nick here on QuakeNet, even if it's your auth name on Q (and L). Anyone else can take it when you're not using it. You can try talking to the person that has taken your nick if you really want it back but it's up to him/her if he/she wants to give it back. If not, you should just use another nick until your nick is free again.

<-- Thats reason enough for me not to use Quakenet.

[Fr0sten]

But I really think people should come to #Planetarion on quakenet! the bigger the channel on quakenet the more people are going to do a /list and see us there and that would get the word out more!

Also Kal,

I have done my research and Quakenet would give Planetarion Partner status which would give you access to there global noticer! Which would therefor attract 100,000+ people to planetarion!!!! I really think its worth giving it a go!

And to be totally honest your thinking about what "Planetarion wants" as in the PA Team well to be honest without customers of which to be honest we see people leave almost on a daily basis now. And its a known fact that the community is getting smaller! Well I can see jolt most likely dropping Planetarion as its not a profit making assest (This I assuming! therefor if I am wrong I appologise.)

I love this game to bits I have seen it close before! And I will not let it close again.... This community could be as big as it was when planetarion first started out! You are stunting its growth by staying @ Netgamers.

[Timeline]

fr0sten not being funny, but why are you researching information with quakenet to that level of detail when you aren't an official representive of the game or jolt?

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Timeline

fr0sten not being funny, but why are you researching information with quakenet to that level of detail when you aren't an official representive of the game or jolt?

Do you have to be a member of the pa team or jolt for having an initiative or bringing up a suggestion for the games future?

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by Timeline

fr0sten not being funny, but why are you researching information with quakenet to that level of detail when you aren't an official representive of the game or jolt?

What the **** does this even mean?

Surely Fr0stens suggestion is a horrible one, atleast part of it. But god damn, who the **** are you anyway? Please resign is this is your level of resolve

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by Timeline

fr0sten not being funny, but why are you researching information with quakenet to that level of detail when you aren't an official representive of the game or jolt?

Yeah, why do we dare caring about the game we play when we aren't even PA TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (even though in fr0sten's case it's probably been because of a g-line)

[Fr0sten]

Please NOTE! This is A suggestion! of which You should seriously consider putting a POLL on the portal about!

So that the community as a whole can decide.

[Timeline]

when it comes to discussing partner status with quakenet, in my opinion, it is the responsibility of jolt or its representative to broach the subject

Initiative is a good thing, and i'm not saying fr0sten was wrong for bringing this up for discussion...however i feel once it got to a stage where discussions were held with quakenet it should have been either a rep or with a rep there.

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by Timeline

when it comes to discussing partner status with quakenet, in my opinion, it is the responsibility of jolt or its representative to broach the subject

Initiative is a good thing, and i'm not saying fr0sten was wrong for bringing this up for discussion...however i feel once it got to a stage where discussions were held with quakenet it should have been either a rep or with a rep there.

At no point in the conversation was planetarion mentioned! I simply asked about Rules and proceedures on becoming a partner.

1) You would need an IRC Server (Jolt Has One!)
2) You would have to have a support channel.
3) A large userbase that would benifit the qnet network.

[furball]

As Kargool pointed out, you can't preserve your IRC nick on QuakeNet. The P registration system is vital for Planetarion - how else could you be sure that the alliance HC that you're talking to is who they say they are?


That's enough to prove to me that NetGamers fulfils PA's needs better than QuakeNet can.

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by furball

As Kargool pointed out, you can't preserve your IRC nick on QuakeNet. The P registration system is vital for Planetarion - how else could you be sure that the alliance HC that you're talking to is who they say they are?


That's enough to prove to me that NetGamers fulfils PA's needs better than QuakeNet can.

/whois NickName

-
Fr0sten is [email protected] * Nick Arnold
Fr0sten on +#planetarion
Fr0sten using wineasy2.se.quakenet.org WinEasy QuakeNet IRC Server
Fr0sten is authed as Fr0sten
Fr0sten has been idle 52secs, signed on Sun Sep 17 23:05:26
Fr0sten End of /WHOIS list.
-

There is even a verify command!

[furball]

Originally Posted by Quakenet FAQ

Can I register my nickname?

QuakeNet does not use a nickname reservation service, such as NickServ, to reserve nicknames. As a result of this, you cannot register your nickname on QuakeNet. If a nickname is available, any user is allowed to use it.

However, this does NOT apply to the nicknames of IRC Operators, Helpers and Network Services, due to security related issues. If a user uses any of these nicknames, or similar nicknames, an operator may immediately disconnect the user from the network WITHOUT prior notice.

You can register a Q account with your nickname though, and the account is named after your current nick. But after that, it doesn't matter what nick you use. Basically, you can't create a Q account with name XYZ unless your nick is XYZ when you create it.

Explain to me the difference. From what I can see, other users can steal your nick any time they want. You cannot stop them using this nick. There is a QuakeNet registration service, but it gives you no power over the nickname itself.

[Dr_Zaius]

Still, the non holding of nicks leads to many problems!

I have used both cservice and cs/ns networks for years and run my own irc server on cs/ns and I much prefere the cservice system, I have never been a big fan of quakenet (incidently the network is named origonally after another game which seems a bit strange for us as another game 2 use!)

[Marv]

Lets face it. For what Planetarion users needs / want out of a nickserv QuakeNet is shit.

QuakeNet is not what Planetarion needs or wants in an IRC network.

As far as I can see, NetGamers will be Planetarions home until 1 of 2 things happens.

1. NG dies / gets blow up in a tragic Markb related incident.
2. We find away to build a large dome like bubble much in the same way the eden project works for us to all move in together and wage interstreet warfare. The galaxy system will be replaced with the "Street System" and your Planet becomes your "home". Complete with overpriced morgage and anoying old lady next door that complains about the volume of your HiFi.

To Summaries: NG Rocks. QN Doesn't.

[Alki]

ill resummarise for you: we're too lazy to move, so we won't.



amirite?

[Marv]

Originally Posted by Alki

ill resummarise for you: we're too lazy to move, so we won't.



amirite?

No.

QuakeNet does not provide the necessary futures that we need. These points have already been made by Kargool / furball / Kal above me so I shall not repeat themn and assume you actually read them.

Netgamers provides a good quality service on a network that is well known / respected. As Kal previously said, onlines games move to netgamers to host their IRC services.

NG is a far superior IRC communication solution than QN is for Planetarion's needs and regrowth.

[GReaper]

A quick comparison of the two networks:

Quakenet

+ Faster user registration
+ Easier to register channels (doesn't require someone to authorise every channel, not forced to have supporters at 499 access)
- No NickServ

NetGamers

+ Has nick registration services
- Can't hide owner of registered channels
- Out of date website/forums

[Alki]

well known by whom though? goto a newbie, heard of netgamers? huh. what about quakenet? oh yeah i heard of quake.

Originally Posted by Marv

NG is a far superior IRC communication solution than QN is for Planetarion's needs and regrowth.

aye so i hear, maybe one day if its said enough times it might come true, and when that day comes we can all dance around trees with fairies and get some good earned fairy sex for all that 'regrowth' we done

[ComradeRob]

Anyone who thinks that the quality of the services is what determines the quality of an IRC network is making a fairly basic error of judgement. For those who care about such things, I can appreciate that good services are important. But most people don't care, and wouldn't notice the difference. A sad truth for people who spend their time coding services, but truth nonetheless.

It's also worth pointing out that the fact that the majority of NG users like the NG services and are happy with the network also proves nothing. It's a self-selecting sample - by definition, people who use NG must be happy with the network or they wouldn't be using it.

Originally Posted by Marv

QuakeNet does not provide the necessary futures that we need.

Who are 'we'? What features? (I assume 'futures' is a typo). What precise benefit do the NG services offer to the Planetarion community - by which I mean ordinary players. Would the loss of the NG services be such a great loss? I can also point out that, at various times, the network has operated with different services, and without services at all for a period of time. Life went on. Many alliances have, and some continue to, operate private servers also.

A far more salient fact is that QuakeNet currently has 80x as many users as NetGamers, which would constitute far more 'passing trade' for PA. The experience of alliances running private servers is useful here; one of the main reasons that this practice declined was that, as the playerbase and alliance sizes shrank, it was no longer practical to operate a server for such a small number of people. People spent more time talking on the busier network (NG being busier than the private network) because there were more people to talk to, and came to regard the private network as something of an annoyance. For many new players, it is the small, cliquey and (dare I say it) somewhat inbred NG network which must be the annoyance, the small network that Planetarion forces them to use if they want to play the game effectively. Relocating to a larger network would have the effect of minimising disruption and difficulty for new players who already use QuakeNet.

Whether QuakeNet is really the best place to go is a matter for debate. Is it a place where PA might expect to draw new players from? Would QuakeNet assist in promoting PA if PA moved there? If QuakeNet's size is an advantage, why not move to an even larger network?

The point is that the debate cannot be seen through the prism of 'who has the best services?'. Great services mean nothing if you don't have the userbase; ordinary people are not going to care about the advantages of P vs Q, they're going to care about how many people there are to talk to, and how many interesting and diverse channels exist, and how many of their existing friends already use the network. I'm not convinced that NetGamers really offers the best solution and given that it was NetGamers who themselves first broke the link with PA by rebranding themselves and dropping the 'Planetarion IRC Network' name, I should think that they have precious little grounds for complaint if PA does relocate. It's an idea that deserves full consideration, not a narrow debate about technical matters that are an irrelevance to many of the people who matter (the players).

[Kal]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

stuff

While I undertand what you are saying I think you underesitmate the value of services.

One of the big reasons alliances used to use for not having private channels on NG was that the services did not offer what they wanted. What this means is that the community beocmes fragmented as everyone is chatting in different locations.

Therefore what we ideally want is a big network that has sufficent services that all PA players will use that networks IRC services withotu having to invest in private faciltiies. While netgamers may not be the biggest network in the world, we are in unique position through our partner agreement to influence the services and improve them for all pa players and the netgamers community as a whole.

While this may reduce our "passing trade", I'm not entirly convinced thats a big issue at this time as we probabaly arn't that appealing in our current state to the type of people that are on quakenet (that said we do aim to change this).

I think its also worth pointing out that in terms of growth strategies I would be in favour of slow growth where we develop over time, simply becuase we don't have the resources for huge step changes. So our aim should be to become the premier game on netgamers, and to attract players away from the other games similar to PA on the network and also to try and appeal to thoose games that arn't as similar.

Its also worth pointing out that in addition to our ability to influence services development we also have the ability to do globals, which one we have developed our image and marketing will become a much mroe signifcant factor than it is now. I find it quite unlikely that we would be able to buy the influence required for globals etc from any big network.

Now I could be entirly wrong - so if someone did present a sound case for moving to a specific network it would of course be considered, however a sound case for moving to quakenet has not been presented.

[Zo0f]

Originally Posted by Kal

stuff

Now I could be entirly wrong - so if someone did present a sound case for moving to a specific network it would of course be considered, however a sound case for moving to quakenet has not been presented.

Its not anyone else's job to do, it is PATeam's job. This is something you should be able to make long detailed posts about because you should of already done all this research.

This thread started with a bunch of narrow minded, lazy and plain retarded posts from both sides. Topped off with personal insults in the middle, ending with a PATeam request for the community to do their job for them. Not exactly a success story.

However something good can come from all this. Get someone (preferably not an idiot, this is really important!!) to do some research, starting with a list of all the games in this genre (web browser mmo?) and if/where they use IRC. Are they all in the same place? Are they all spread out? How can PA use this to their advantage?

Im going to assume from personal experience (and 5mins googling!!!!) that most are spread out, much like Imperial Conflict which runs its own server (irc.imperial conflict.com). This is another struggling browser mmo which offers extra features to those who pay. Could they be persuaded to come to NetGamers? Thereby expanding the pool of potential players on the NG network.

It does not take very long to realise there is at least promise enough to make it worth investigating.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Zo0f

Get someone (preferably not an idiot, this is really important!!) to do some research, starting with a list of all the games in this genre (web browser mmo?) and if/where they use IRC.

That's actually a pretty clever idea. And i think we've just found a volunteer! (yes, that's you, Zo0f ).

[Kal]

With reference to the partner thing - I think its probabaly more difficult that described - if jotl already met the requirements then I'm sure it woudl rleady be a partner considering one of its biggest competitors is a partner already... it might be that as with ng exsiting partners can block an application?

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by Kal

With reference to the partner thing - I think its probabaly more difficult that described - if jotl already met the requirements then I'm sure it woudl rleady be a partner considering one of its biggest competitors is a partner already... it might be that as with ng exsiting partners can block an application?

its probably along those lines, multiplay has a strong prescence on quakenet - and they are jolts rival. It would not surprise me if they were blocking any application should they have partner status there.
As such planetarion would not be able to attain partner status on quakenet, not be able to have globals done and ultimately would be at a disadvantage compared to remaining on netgamers

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by Kal

With reference to the partner thing - I think its probabaly more difficult that described - if jotl already met the requirements then I'm sure it woudl rleady be a partner considering one of its biggest competitors is a partner already... it might be that as with ng exsiting partners can block an application?

www.quakenet.org/server_application

thats all you need to fill in!

call the server planetarion.uk.eu.quakenet.org

I am sure the jolt irc server more than meets the requirement for qnet.

as for qnet there is more features than you know!

Quakenet
+ L (light weight for small channels(
+ Q (a more featured bot)
+ 24 hour help when you need it and on demand!
+ MIRC Help / Eggdrop help
+ Support for bots and the like >> im sure alliances will appreicate this!
+ No Limit to the number of channels you can register
+ The staff are polite and paitent
+ They have training channels for helping new users to learn there services
+ They are also constantly upgrading there IRC Network / Services
+ S (Anti Spam bot)
+ R (Request a service)
+ Extensive FAQ Websites
+ Quicker Nickname registration and mangement of channels
+ 80k + Userbase
+ RFC Complient Services / Servers
+ Quicker Connectity to locally based servers
+ Planetarion would grow in its userbase here.

Netgamers
- Limited to 3 channels
- You need supporters to register a channel
- Constant Spam Abuse
- Website is old / not updated
- Not much help at all.
- No Freedom of speach. Ie... you say something that is true and that Oper finds out you get g-lined on sight... of which I found out.
- Your personal IP / Fakenick is given out to the community for all to know about.
- Your nickname is registered to you no one else can use it and therefor abuse of the recovery command of which you will have your nickname suspended for using should someone complain.
- Netgamers is to be totally honest a shambles!


I there for ask the community to Call For Vote on a test move to Quakenet.

Basicly open a new mirc and connect to quakenet and join the normal channnels you would join on netgamers and encourage other people to do the same.

/server -m irc.quakenet.org
/join #planetarion

You will notice a few things @ #Planetarion on quakenet which are different than Netgamers its a more relaxed and more plesant experiance, We dont have a Pea! wahooo!! but we have ^x^ whos a nice little bot. And we also have "Planetarion" which is a bot I am developing.. which features the likes of the manual in a bot.

[Timeline]

Originally Posted by Fr0sten

www.quakenet.org/server_application

thats all you need to fill in!

call the server planetarion.uk.eu.quakenet.org

I am sure the jolt irc server more than meets the requirement for qnet.

thats not what was said, phil commented on other partners blackballing an application because jolt have rivals there with partner status already...filling that in would, tbh, be a futile gesture unless jolt got partnership first.

as for qnet there is more features than you know!

afaik the more features the more complicated a thing gets...one of the aspects which put new players off irc is the complexity of it when they first join up...we dont want to make things even more difficult for them, especially if they cant have the same nick all the time as it would be on qnet

Quakenet
+ L (light weight for small channels(
+ Q (a more featured bot)
+ 24 hour help when you need it and on demand!
+ MIRC Help / Eggdrop help
+ Support for bots and the like >> im sure alliances will appreicate this!
+ No Limit to the number of channels you can register
+ The staff are polite and paitent
+ They have training channels for helping new users to learn there services
+ They are also constantly upgrading there IRC Network / Services
+ S (Anti Spam bot)
+ R (Request a service)
+ Extensive FAQ Websites
+ Quicker Nickname registration and mangement of channels
+ 80k + Userbase
+ RFC Complient Services / Servers
+ Quicker Connectity to locally based servers
+ Planetarion would grow in its userbase here.

as kal said where are the negatives for an unbiased comparison?

to comment on one or two of your positives for qnet....

+ Support for bots and the like >> im sure alliances will appreicate this!

to the extent of my knowledge no alliance has major problems with bots on netgamers..only you, and that is because you run too many at any time.

+ The staff are polite and paitent

in my experience over the years i have been playing planetarion and been using irc if i ever have had a problem which is irc based i have found the cservice staff friendly, courteous and willing to help anyone out. What you have to remember is if you are rude and discourteous to them, then they will eventually refuse to help if you dont calm down and be polite...the same will happen on qnet.

+ Quicker Nickname registration and mangement of channels

erm actually its username registration...as people have posted before...you arent 100% sure of keeping your irc nick the next time you are online...and as such would make running an alliance on qnet damned more complicated as you wouldnt know who you are talking to at times.

Netgamers
- Limited to 3 channels
- You need supporters to register a channel
- Constant Spam Abuse
- Website is old / not updated
- Not much help at all.
- No Freedom of speach. Ie... you say something that is true and that Oper finds out you get g-lined on sight... of which I found out.
- Your personal IP / Fakenick is given out to the community for all to know about.
- Your nickname is registered to you no one else can use it and therefore abuse of the recovery command of which you will have your nickname suspended for using should someone complain.
- Netgamers is to be totally honest a shambles!

again where are the positives for unbiased opinion?
and tbh look at the last negative reason....if that doesnt show that all of this is personal for you, and in such it is now a grudge for you against netgamers then i dont know what.

You'll notice a few things @ #Planetarion on quakenet which are different than Netgamers its a more relaxed and more plesant experiance, We dont have a Pea! wahooo!! but we have ^x^ whos a nice little bot. And we also have "Planetarion" which is a bot I am developing.. which features the likes of the manual in a bot.

Actually yes it is more relaxed, maybe cos when ever i have been on ...i've not seen anyone talk..unlike #planetarion on ng. Also i may be one of the few to defend pea, but planetarion is the equivalent of a pg rated game and as such then strict regulations have to be enforced in official game channels.
I think you'd realise this fr0sten if you actually followed netgamers rules for once.

[Phil^]

I remember that bot of yours. I also remember banning it from #planetarion because you cannot obey simple rules.
It is no doubt because of your inability to follow rules that you were g-lined, and crying about it will not change matters
You do not speak for the community, and never will.

to be frank, good riddance.

the probability of a vote being called is slim, and it is astronomically small that planetarion will ever move away from netgamers.
Furthermore, continuing to advertise quakenet here despite people telling you that it wont happen reeks of sour grapes.
"oh i was bad and got g-lined , but because i refuse to admit it im going to do everything i can to irritate and annoy netgamers now"

grow the **** up

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by Phil^

I remember that bot of yours. I also remember banning it from #planetarion because you cannot obey simple rules.
It is no doubt because of your inability to follow rules that you were g-lined, and crying about it will not change matters
You do not speak for the community, and never will.

to be frank, good riddance.

the probability of a vote being called is slim, and it is astronomically small that planetarion will ever move away from netgamers.
Furthermore, continuing to advertise quakenet here despite people telling you that it wont happen reeks of sour grapes.
"oh i was bad and got g-lined , but because i refuse to admit it im going to do everything i can to irritate and annoy netgamers now"

grow the **** up

How mature of you. And you do not remember that bot of mine! as I have only started coding the "Planetarion" bot which you talk to in PM and you can read the Planetarion Manual direct from an IRC Bot i thought this idea was great. And the added feature of being able to send notes / mail to the PA Team / Creators.

[Phil^]

Oh so you didnt ever have another bot with the "planetarion" nick in #planetarion i suppose
Its not only that bot which has been banned, pretty much every single one you put in there, including fsthosting which you adamantly said did nothing.
your bots, yourself and even the nick used to ban evade have been banned. You just do not get the hint.

[Markb]

hang on, stop confusing us fr0sten with the features, you have already done it with Kal.

Kal was talking about the Partner status or whatever the Quakenet equivilent is, and you provide a link to a server application, what good is that?

Quakenet does not have nickname registration, they have username registration.
Would you like it if someone else started using the nick fr0sten, and you couldn't regain control of that nick? With 100k users on QN, thats a LOT of fighting just for nicks let alone channels.

Another thing that puts me off other larger networks such as Quakenet is the huge amount of spam bots, I talk to another NetGamers user who also uses Quakenet and he has to have a private message blocker script just to stop all the spam that you'd get.

Pea for President!

NetGamers runs ircu which is RFC compliant.

[Kal]

Fr0sten, conventionally when someone compares to services they look at the positives and negatives of both - rather than the positives of one and the negatives of the other...

For example some of your quakenet + apply just as much to ng as they do to quakenet. Additionally you fail to point out that getting Q is not something you can guarantee.

I'm also wondering where a lot of your netgamers negatives come from, as I raely encounter any of the problems you describe and as far as I am aware no one has ever come to PATeam complaining about how our partner has treated them.

[Fr0sten]

Originally Posted by Kal

Fr0sten, conventionally when someone compares to services they look at the positives and negatives of both - rather than the positives of one and the negatives of the other...

For example some of your quakenet + apply just as much to ng as they do to quakenet. Additionally you fail to point out that getting Q is not something you can guarantee.

I'm also wondering where a lot of your netgamers negatives come from, as I raely encounter any of the problems you describe and as far as I am aware no one has ever come to PATeam complaining about how our partner has treated them.

The biggest mistake planetarion made was moving from planetarion irc!

[Markb]

Originally Posted by Fr0sten

The biggest mistake planetarion made was moving from planetarion irc!

Afaik PA IRC died, and NetGamers was born. So I don't think PA had a choice in the matter

[Phil^]

they were intentionally seperated afaik in order to safeguard each other. If one went down, they both wouldnt die with it, etc.

[Heartless]

I wish PA team and almost every other poster in this thread would start to seriously discuss this issue. Rob made a very good post which was sadly left uncommented due to some participants starting some fr0sten bashing.

In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.

So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Heartless

So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?

Whilst i'm not PA Team, i think at the very minimum, Players who have P (or whatever) registered Nicks must be able to control them at all times - apparently, Quakenet does not do this which potentially means other networks dont do this too.

Further, What Squish said is somewhat true; players who are interested in browser based games should try and congregate together, which i am not sure Quakenet (etc) does, due to their fps type people i imagine would go there. Unless you could convince people who play FPSs to play PA between levels/maps/deaths etc.

As for Fr0sten; if you didnt act like such a muppet on Netgamers, and didnt insist on running fourteen different bots and the like etc, you wouldnt find yourself banned from this channel. I am unsure as to your motives, whether you've merely got an axe to grind at the NG crew who realise that you are a moron and wont tolerate your crap. Having said that, there is merit in discussing whether moving to a larger irc server network would be beneficial to the game and community.

[Timeline]

Originally Posted by Heartless

I wish PA team and almost every other poster in this thread would start to seriously discuss this issue. Rob made a very good post which was sadly left uncommented due to some participants starting some fr0sten bashing.

In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.

So I'd like to ask PA Team which precise arguments speak against moving from NG to a bigger irc network?

for the record the team arent averse to using quakenet, as appoco, chef and others do sit in #planetarion and have give it their support. Nor will they try to stop players from using that server if they wish...however what everyone in this thread is trying to point out to fr0sten is that although quakenet does have some advantages over netgamers, the reverse is also true and as such a totally unbiased comparison is needed..not a one sided one like his, as he has a grudge against the netgamers ops.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Heartless

In my opinion PA only benefits from switching to a bigger IRC network (not necessarily quakenet, but it must be a network significantly bigger than netgamers). Services - as Rob pointed out already - are only vital for those which care. The alliances demanding such services either run their own private IRC servers or have technical capabilities to create and run required irc bots.

Yes because we all know that all the alliances have a tech team and have their own servers. Oh wait no they dont. Any argument that relies on the basis that people have the required knowledge and tech to implement their own version of the things that make NG suited pretty well for PA is as flawed as it comes

So unless someone TRUSTWORTHY is going to code and host a service for Quakenet that would give PA Players the features needed that the channel/nick services dont give, your going to have to come up with a better reason than that

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by wakey

Yes because we all know that all the alliances have a tech team and have their own servers. Oh wait no they dont. Any argument that relies on the basis that people have the required knowledge and tech to implement their own version of the things that make NG suited pretty well for PA is as flawed as it comes

So unless someone TRUSTWORTHY is going to code and host a service for Quakenet that would give PA Players the features needed that the channel/nick services dont give, your going to have to come up with a better reason than that

So in the end it boils down to:

1) Which nick/chan services features are critical to PA players?
2) Which IRC networks do provide them?

[ComradeRob]

If it was just a question of servers and userbase, we would move to Undernet.

Undernet services are very similar to NetGamers services, for the simple reason that they're both based on the same code (originally developed by Undernet). NetGamers has P, Undernet has X, and both do almost exactly the same thing ([P VERSION reply]: NetGamers P10 Channel Services II [Oct 29 2005 21:32:40] Release 1.2.22 and [X VERSION reply]: Undernet P10 Channel Services II [Feb 10 2006 16:07:27] Release 1.3).

However, NetGamers is an official partner of Planetarion, which means that NetGamers will do certain things to help promote Planetarion. I don't actually know precisely what those things are, so it's hard to judge how valuable they are, but it's unlikely that a network like Undernet would offer anything similar. The only advantage (although it might be a big advantage) is the larger userbase and potential to recruit new players from it.

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

However, NetGamers is an official partner of Planetarion, which means that NetGamers will do certain things to help promote Planetarion. I don't actually know precisely what those things are, so it's hard to judge how valuable they are, but it's unlikely that a network like Undernet would offer anything similar.

Its things like official channel flags, as many registered channels as pateam want, globals on request, a say in how the network is run and what other companies can join as a partner, etc.

[xtothez]

I'm not going to comment on Fr0sten's dealings with the feds team, that is a matter between himself and Netgamers staff. I will however shed some light on the technical aspects of swtiching networks.

For those doubting the usefulness of nickname ownership, answer this. If the bot used for reporting alliance incoming was disconnected, and someone stole its nickname, what could you do about it?

Originally Posted by wakey

So unless someone TRUSTWORTHY is going to code and host a service for Quakenet that would give PA Players the features needed that the channel/nick services dont give, your going to have to come up with a better reason than that

Writing and introducing new services to a new network is by no means a solution. Assuming the QNET opers approved the use of a services link, how could it enforce nickname ownership without access to the Q user database? Not to mention the fact that it would be fulfilling a role QNET have already said they do not want on their network.

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

Undernet services are very similar to NetGamers services...
I don't actually know precisely what those things are, so it's hard to judge how valuable they are...

While based on the same initial code, there are some significant deifferences between IRC and services software on both networks. Our IRC daemons support channel modes not found on Undernet (such as stripping colour codes, blocking channel CTCPs, notices and multi-target messages). P and its related services have several modifications to support partners, including official channel flags, custom verifcation text and targeted globals.
Netgamers also has a plethora of IP exceptions used by various individuals and alliances that would need to be transferred.

We have a large group of both operator and CSC staff introduced to the network via games like Planetarion. As such they understand various issues with the game/IRC that would not be as easily explained to QNET staff.
Netgamers is a much smaller target for malicious drone attacks. The majority of incidents on here are purpotrated by existing users of the network, who can often be stopped by the threat of losing their network access and/or P account. Quakenet on the otherhand sees drone attacks "because it is Quakenet" - a single large target ripe for spamming various material.

[Mistwraith]

Originally Posted by Heartless

So in the end it boils down to:

1) Which nick/chan services features are critical to PA players?
2) Which IRC networks do provide them?

i'd add and what irc networks holds the specific client base pa requires.