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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 03:17   #51
JonnyBGood
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Lukoe
I thought same thing about negative score

I hear sky's american now. Most questions are framed to make economic right/authoritarian people seem evil which always makes life far more interesting.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 03:46   #52
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.42

There are apparently no famous people in my quadrant. :/
Psht: http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...composers.html

And I'll be famous, one day....
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:17   #53
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.90

Almost bang-on with Nelson Mandela and Gandhi.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:44   #54
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54
lol


edit :

Economic Left/Right: 5.50
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.79

Last edited by Nodrog; 3 Dec 2003 at 13:49.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:47   #55
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

my political compass says I am too apathetic to care.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:52   #56
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.64
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:55   #57
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.64
communist.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:58   #58
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
communist.
The whole thing is seriously ****ed up.

I can't iamgine Blair difering hugely from most of what I answered, and he's in the 'EVUL FASCIST SECTION.'

Alas.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 13:58   #59
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...remeright.html

The people who made the test certainly dont have a left wing slant.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:03   #60
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The people who made the test certainly dont have a left wing slant.
Fascism/Neo-Fascism have always tended to generally rely on some level of economic control, either through coportatism, planning, etc.

Assuming that 'Extensive free market economics = all that the right wing can believe in' is just so ridiculous the mind boggles. That is, incidentally, potentially indicative of a blinkered left bias as much as anything else. Perhaps they should examine the entire history of politics and get back to us on this one.

This just proves that these people are politically naive. The test is terribly flawed.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 3 Dec 2003 at 14:09.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:09   #61
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Fascism/Neo-Fascism have always tended to generally rely on some level of economic control, either through coportatism, planning, etc.

Assuming that 'Extensive free market economics = all that the right wing can believe in' is just so ridiculous the mind boggles. That is, incidentally, potentially indicative of a blinkered left bias as much as anything else. Perhaps they should examine the entire history of politics and get back to us on this one.

This just proves that these people are politically naive. The test is terribly flawed.
so there is no real difference apart from the shit they spout on the podium? sounds about right.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:10   #62
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
so there is no real difference apart from the shit they spout on the podium? sounds about right.
No, it's just that reality is nuanced.

Unfortunately it probably defies theory. I would say that intention, and the underlying ethos of a person's position were about the only accurate determinants, but you would probably laugh at me.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 3 Dec 2003 at 14:18.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:13   #63
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

"much of their old economic baggage has been pinched by National Socialism."

That just shows how stupid these people are. Mosley et al were spouting off in favour of this 'old economic baggage' in the thirties, ffs.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:15   #64
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Fascism/Neo-Fascism have always tended to generally rely on some level of economic control, either through coportatism, planning, etc.

Assuming that 'Extensive free market economics = all that the right wing can believe in' is just so ridiculous the mind boggles. That is, incidentally, potentially indicative of a blinkered left bias as much as anything else. Perhaps they should examine the entire history of politics and get back to us on this one.

This just proves that these people are politically naive. The test is terribly flawed.
I didnt understand this post; I'm not sure what your middle paragraph is trying to say.

My left wing bias remark was an observation pertaining to them putting the labour and conservative part both fairly far to the 'right' on the economic axis, which is pretty lol.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:15   #65
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
No, it's just that reality is nuanced.

Unfortunately it probably defies theory.
I wish things could be black and white like they are in the US:

If you are a liberal, you are an Iraqi loving, Bible burning, baby killer.
If you are a conservative you are a Baby loving, Bible bashing, Iraqi killer.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:17   #66
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I didnt understand this post; I'm not sure what your middle paragraph is trying to say.
Criticsing their position, etc. Not exactly rocket science.

I deleted the link because I was on drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
My left wing bias remark was an observation pertaining to them putting the labour and conservative part both fairly far to the 'right' on the economic axis, which is pretty lol.
Oh, you were being sarcastic!

Nod in 'agreeing with me' shocker?
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:21   #67
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Criticsing their position, etc. Not exactly rocket science.

I deleted the link because I was on drugs.
If youre critisiing them for equating 'right wing' with 'free market economics', then you utterly missed the point of the entire site.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Oh, you were being sarcastic!
Yeah. How 2 parties that both support things like socialised health care and public education could be anything to the right of about -3.0 economically is beyond me :/
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:29   #68
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
If youre critisiing them for equating 'right wing' with 'free market economics', then you utterly missed the point of the entire site.
'Apparently.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Yeah. How 2 parties that both support things like socialised health care and public education could be anything to the right of about -3.0 economically is beyond me :/
Probably a troll, but it's hard to tell. Anyway, it goes back to my nuances point nicely.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:31   #69
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

labels seem a bit superfluous when there are so many different things to have so many different opinions about. really that graph should be n dimensional, and then let n tend to infinity.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 14:36   #70
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
labels seem a bit superfluous when there are so many different things to have so many different opinions about. really that graph should be n dimensional, and then let n tend to infinity.
Most things are interrelated though, and threads tie together the further you go down. You could probably do a fairly accurate representation of almost everyones political position on about 5 axes maximum.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 15:29   #71
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
I wish things could be black and white like they are in the US:

If you are a liberal, you are an Iraqi loving, Bible burning, baby killer.
If you are a conservative you are a Baby loving, Bible bashing, Iraqi killer.
One should add:

"If you disagree in any way with this terribly broad categorisation, see 'liberal' above."
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 16:45   #72
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

im roughly where i thought id be (despite saying people need to be told what to do, etc), most other people who have posted in this thread.

Feel completely free to make your own political compass that is anywhere near as accurate.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 17:00   #73
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

The origin of the terminology simply refers to 'right wing' as being establishment and wealthy: the nobility, while the left wing is revolutionart and anti-establishment,: the peasantry and working class. This all comes from the seating arrangement of the First and Third estates respectively in the chamber of the national assembly of revolutionary France post-1789. Notably, nobody even mentions the second estate anymore, the clergy, which sat across from both...

The phrase left and right has changed to much since then, and the definition varies from country to country. In Canada, what we call our 'Right wing' party would be considered barely right of center in the US. The 'Liberal' party here is centrist with slight leftist leanings, while Liberal in the US is a swearword.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 17:02   #74
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion
The phrase left and right has changed to much since then, and the definition varies from country to country. In Canada, what we call our 'Right wing' party would be considered barely right of center in the US. The 'Liberal' party here is centrist with slight leftist leanings, while Liberal in the US is a swearword.
Both terms are utterly meaningless, that was the point of politicalcompass deciding to define rightwing as being purely economic.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 17:39   #75
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
Both terms are utterly meaningless, that was the point of politicalcompass deciding to define rightwing as being purely economic.
Even "purely" economic doesn't really nail it down usefully. If I was to define a political compass, I'd have freedom as one axes and (economic) equality as the other one.

You're defining the economic bit as state intervention (for or against) which is fair enough, but not a universally accept definition. There are plenty of states which intervene to increase inequality, promote massive increases in personal wealth (for certain people), etc.

To put simply : A government which shifts taxation from wealth/income based taxes to spending/direct taxes is intervening in the economy just as much, yet would be following what I (and others) would term a 'right wing agenda'.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 18:36   #76
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Questions like "corporations mainly serve themselves" are stupid since everyone agrees, but if you say agree it means you think it's a bad thing
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 18:43   #77
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

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lol
what lol?
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 19:01   #78
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Questions like "corporations mainly serve themselves" are stupid since everyone agrees, but if you say agree it means you think it's a bad thing
Yeah, the questions are phrased to give "typical" (i.e. stereotyped) responses of what a lefty/right-wing person would say.

It's the equivalent of asking whether you eat rice and giving you "Asian Points" if you answer yes. Yes, quite a few Asians eat rice, but eating rice doesn't make you Asian. Or something.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 19:08   #79
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Even "purely" economic doesn't really nail it down usefully. If I was to define a political compass, I'd have freedom as one axes and (economic) equality as the other one.
How would an economic equality axis be useful (to a non-communist)?
Quote:
You're defining the economic bit as state intervention (for or against) which is fair enough, but not a universally accept definition. There are plenty of states which intervene to increase inequality, promote massive increases in personal wealth (for certain people), etc.
State intervention is bad, regardless.
Quote:
To put simply : A government which shifts taxation from wealth/income based taxes to spending/direct taxes is intervening in the economy just as much, yet would be following what I (and others) would term a 'right wing agenda'.
It's all statism to me.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 19:16   #80
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
How would an economic equality axis be useful (to a non-communist)?
Well, I'm not sure how any of this is useful to anyone really. But in terms of some kind of analysis, it's a more useful way of examing either government policy, or of prospective legal changes, or whatever really.

And yes, it is all statism, which was exactly my point. I don't see why Statism vs Non-Statism is a fundamentally different argument from libertarianism vs authotarianism.

If your two axes are Political and Economic freedom that's cool (as I've said) but that doesn't seem to really analyse politics as most people practice it on a day-to-day level. If you're talking about a hypothetical political compass for when we don't have a state, well, that's a different argument.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 22:44   #81
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Even "purely" economic doesn't really nail it down usefully. If I was to define a political compass, I'd have freedom as one axes and (economic) equality as the other one.
'.
I dont think you understand; the idea is to have the axes independant of each other, not diametrically opposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You're defining the economic bit as state intervention (for or against) which is fair enough, but not a universally accept definition. There are plenty of states which intervene to increase inequality, promote massive increases in personal wealth (for certain people), etc.

To put simply : A government which shifts taxation from wealth/income based taxes to spending/direct taxes is intervening in the economy just as much, yet would be following what I (and others) would term a 'right wing agenda'.
The site clearly says that its using right wing to mean free market, and leftwing to mean state controlled economyt. A government which shifted taxation from wealth/income based taxes to spending/direct taxes would be left wing, since it is obviously completely antithetical to a free market.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 22:51   #82
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
If your two axes are Political and Economic freedom that's cool (as I've said) but that doesn't seem to really analyse politics as most people practice it on a day-to-day level. If you're talking about a hypothetical political compass for when we don't have a state, well, that's a different argument.
Most people practice day to day politics by taking an arbitrary stance on every issue they meet, without bothering to think if their different opinions are related to (or even contradict) each other If you wanted to have a political compass that reflected it, youd have to have as many different axes as there were political questions, and some kind of probability distribution to integrate them all together.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 23:08   #83
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I dont think you understand; the idea is to have the axes independant of each other, not diametrically opposed.
Well, funnily enough I would say they aren't diametrically opposed. I support things which increase freedom and equality. There are plenty of people who indifferent (or hostile) to either issue. But that's a different argument.

I'm well aware of how the site measures things (state control vs lack of control), I'm merely noting this isn't a particularly useful way of dividing things up (on economics).
Quote:
A government which shifted taxation from wealth/income based taxes to spending/direct taxes would be left wing, since it is obviously completely antithetical to a free market.
Well, that's fair enough but then there are no right wing governments, and so the argument becomes a little bit irrelevent. After the "right wing" (according to the chart) Thatcher, government % of GDP was almost the same as it was in 1979, albeit spent on different things. Similarly, it's ludicrous to say Pinnochet was pro-free market (as they do) when the right to free association for workers was basically smashed. In short, who would be right-wing according to the chart?

You're right that contemporary politics is somewhat lacking, but the point of the chart is supposed to compare us to other people, not to compare ourselves with some ideal (I would say). The questions are all relatively practical, and not based on adherence to theory. Otherwise, hypothetical legal questions "Would you support an intereference on trade, in this situation : " would be more useful than "Do you think corporations in the modern world...", etc.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 23:17   #84
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well, funnily enough I would say they aren't diametrically opposed. I support things which increase freedom and equality. There are plenty of people who indifferent (or hostile) to either issue. But that's a different argument.
Any government initiative that increases equality is going to reduce freedom, because somewhere along the way private property rights are going to be violated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well, that's fair enough but then there are no right wing governments
yeah, it sucks. There are a couple around the world, but certainly not in any 'major' countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Similarly, it's ludicrous to say Pinnochet was pro-free market (as they do) when the right to free association for workers was basically smashed. In short, who would be right-wing according to the chart?
I'd say Pinochet was right wing at heart, he just had to kill a few people in order to turn his ideal into a reality (not that I'm defending this). If he were in charge of a functioning state, rather than trying to turn a shithole into a reasonable country, he'd probably have been more obviously right wing (using their definition).

Friedman was on their chart wasnt he?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You're right that contemporary politics is somewhat lacking, but the point of the chart is supposed to compare us to other people, not to compare ourselves with some ideal (I would say).
You cant measure shades of gray without first defining black and white. Yeah, there are no countries that are either completely right wing or left wing (unfortuneately), but that doesnt mean that absolute right/left shouldnt be the comparasion standard.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 23:35   #85
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Any government initiative that increases equality is going to reduce freedom, because somewhere along the way private property rights are going to be violated.
You're falling into the "Politics A-Level" trap of seeing the government as the only agency involved, ever. Clealry free individuals can carry out actions which can be good/bad/ill-advised/pro-equality/anti-equality/pro-freedom/anti-freedom/whatever. Civil society dude. Even Mill looked at that in 'On Liberty'. Government may be the most dangerous enemy of freedom, but they certainly aren't the only one.

If you only ever see things in terms of government no wonder you have such an impoverished political axes.
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Unread 3 Dec 2003, 23:52   #86
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

It swings the same was as my penis.
In the area of Mandela and Ghandi.
Weeee.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 00:07   #87
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You're falling into the "Politics A-Level" trap of seeing the government as the only agency involved, ever. Clealry free individuals can carry out actions which can be good/bad/ill-advised/pro-equality/anti-equality/pro-freedom/anti-freedom/whatever. Civil society dude. Even Mill looked at that in 'On Liberty'. Government may be the most dangerous enemy of freedom, but they certainly aren't the only one.

If you only ever see things in terms of government no wonder you have such an impoverished political axes.
Its a poll about your political beliefs you faggot, not about your opinion on how society should be structured.

4 entries found for politics.
pol·i·tics ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pl-tks)
n.

1. (used with a sing. verb)
1. The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 00:20   #88
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Its a poll about your political beliefs you faggot, not about your opinion on how society should be structured..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Politics is the study of decision-making power (who's got it, and who hasn't) at the inter-social and societal levels.
Saying Politics is just about government is nonsense. Political questions arise at every level of a society. How a particular group of people (say an ethnic group) acts en massé against another group is undoubtedly a political question, irrespective of whether it involves "the government" in the strictest sense. Or indeed, any non-government political group (parties, terrorist groups, campaigners, etc.).

Funnily enough, I think "How society should be structured" is a political question.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 05:37   #89
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

I'm almost smack in the centre. didn't record the score but I was only a smudge to the left upper quadrant.

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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 13:49   #90
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

I ended up not too far away from Gandhi

how odd.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 14:58   #91
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Its a poll about your political beliefs you faggot, not about your opinion on how society should be structured.
Anyone who relies on dictionary definitions to support their points in a political debate is 'way out'.


Try picking up something relevant, like a political glossary, faggot.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:04   #92
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Anyone who relies on dictionary definitions to support their points in a political debate is 'way out'.


Try picking up something relevant, like a political glossary, faggot.
Anyone who relies on calling his opponent a faggot in a politcal debate is 'way out'.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:06   #93
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SbOlly
Anyone who relies on calling his opponent a faggot in a politcal debate is 'way out'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Its a poll about your political beliefs you faggot
Which makes me and Nod about even then; I go on to win by having the sensible argument.

btw, **** off and die. Ta.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:08   #94
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Which makes me and Nod about even then; I go on to win by having the sensible argument.

btw, **** off and die. Ta.
Nod's funny when he does it.
I refuse to acknowledge your victory, and theres nothing you can do to make me. So ner.


btw, No.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:12   #95
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SbOlly
Nod's funny when he does it.
I fail to see the actual 'point' in Nod. He is neither sensible, nor funny. He is like a sort of Neo-Liberal Timmy Mallet on crack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SbOlly
I refuse to acknowledge your victory, and theres nothing you can do to make me. So ner.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:15   #96
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
You cant measure shades of gray without first defining black and white. Yeah, there are no countries that are either completely right wing or left wing (unfortuneately), but that doesnt mean that absolute right/left shouldnt be the comparasion standard.
So because something fails to reach exactly either on eof two absolute extremes, it has no relatinship with either extreme?

What exactly, btw, would you define as the fundamentals of being 'right-wing?', Considering that this is a endlessly flexible term, and is therefore generally meaningless as some sort of universal definition of about anything.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:16   #97
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I fail to see the actual 'point' in Nod. He is neither sensible, nor funny. He is like a sort of Neo-Liberal Timmy Mallet on crack.
Nod is at least in some ways funny and intelligent in his posting.
Where you seem to be just a bitter and twisted (now mod) who lives to jump on any thread with a political angle and start calling people 'faggot' when people don't acknowledge your alleged genius.

Quote:
SbOlly [Ban User]
I should rephrase, theres nothing you will do to make me acknowledge your victory.
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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 15:20   #98
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Exclamation Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SbOlly
Nod is at least in some ways funny and intelligent in his posting.
Nod has a genius for speaking vacuous nonsense that relates to nothing important. This I grant ye. He tries to bathe himself in grandiose language and apparent 'intellctual sophistication' as a method of diguising how ridiculous his actual argument is.*

Possibly, you may wish to applaud this. Personal taste, I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SbOlly
Where you seem to be just a bitter and twisted (now mod) who lives to jump on any thread with a political angle and start calling people 'faggot' when people don't acknowledge your alleged genius.
I call everyone a faggot; whether they chose to acknowledge my total superiority is irrelevant to their faggotishness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SbOlly
I should rephrase, theres nothing you will do to make me acknowledge your victory.
We have vayz of making you talk.






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Unread 4 Dec 2003, 19:49   #99
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
That's probably because of you teaching of tolerance and passive resistance, combined with your opposition to British imperialism. Your an example to us all.
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 05:55   #100
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Re: Are you Right or Left wing?

I'm just a little economically left of Jean Chretian and the same level of libertarian. Whadaya think of that Vermilion?
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