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20 Dec 2015, 19:34
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#51
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Thanks mz.
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I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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20 Dec 2015, 20:11
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#52
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Its a eff/armor issue. Not a targetting issue.
BS/fireblade interaction is to be modify slightly.
Waiting on the last comments from a few people before doing it
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RainbowS
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20 Dec 2015, 22:07
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u5w768g9dh4qdyf
Would you land that?
Same Calc just increased the value of each fleet 10x Sure it may be landable when the loss is only 70k, but if you make the calc 400 ticks later in the round do you land? No of course not.
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20 Dec 2015, 22:38
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#54
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
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The FR damage on bs is very high atm compared to other rounds.
Any obvious imbalance will be adjusted, as i said allready.
The xan should be able to solo ter bs.
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RainbowS
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20 Dec 2015, 23:53
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Also that calc is a Fr attack based Terran, If you flip the values of Ter Bs and Ter Fr its much harder to land that. Unless you intend on reducing Ter Bs A/C to worthless or increase fireblade D/C to god level Xan Fr will never be able to roid Ter bs.
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21 Dec 2015, 03:09
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
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Stop making unrealistic calcs... why does the Ter BS have equal ammount, while the xan Fr is setup with mostly anti BS?
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21 Dec 2015, 03:47
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Ok then mr TheoDD what should the ratio be, of a Ter Fr that use bs to def fr/de.
And what ratio should a xan fr be?
Edit: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=va8biy38yudfumd
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R50-55 Faceless
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21 Dec 2015, 08:49
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#58
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
moved Dreadnought to init 6.
Ghost to init 5.
Thief now T2 CR, T3 FI.
A few changes to armor/damage.
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RainbowS
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26 Dec 2015, 02:13
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 168
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
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What i find most svart about this thread isnt the stats, its that the stats wizard tia is making no sense. First xan unplayable. Then xan fr cant land ter bs (which 90% would land) then show a new calc thats still a land. Also that he cant find decent ratios for ships. All this is extremly scary. I agree that the stats isnt that good, but at least try to discredit them so it makes sense and not so you seem ignorant. At least when your stats are the one most lilely getting picked
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26 Dec 2015, 02:18
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Xan, being unplayable has nothing to do with its ability to attack into Ter Bs. Xan still has to build both Fi ships, as it has no other way to cover fr or De than with fi. I admit Xan Fr has great attack options but it has the the main problem of it roids itself.
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26 Dec 2015, 05:53
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandvold
... then show a new calc thats still a land. ...
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Keep in mind that was almost a week ago - the stats have changed and will affect old calcs.
Last edited by Patrikc; 26 Dec 2015 at 05:58.
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26 Dec 2015, 11:44
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#62
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Keep in mind that was almost a week ago - the stats have changed and will affect old calcs.
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Aint that all the purpose with making calcs?
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RainbowS
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26 Dec 2015, 14:00
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#63
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Aint that all the purpose with making calcs?
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Obviously. You are missing Patrikc's point.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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26 Dec 2015, 14:40
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#64
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Obviously. You are missing Patrikc's point.
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What was hia point? The worst calcs was modified. And tia,still claims xan is unplayable?
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RainbowS
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26 Dec 2015, 16:03
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
That you can't call someone wrong by looking at a calc he made 5 days ago, as I'm quite sure it had a different outcome then. I believe you lowered Ter Bs damage, for example, which was in Tia's calc that Sandvoid is criticizing.
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26 Dec 2015, 16:52
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#66
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
That you can't call someone wrong by looking at a calc he made 5 days ago, as I'm quite sure it had a different outcome then. I believe you lowered Ter Bs damage, for example, which was in Tia's calc that Sandvoid is criticizing.
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Whats your point?
"There was issue a few days ago, but now it has been balanced out so its no issue"?
Im sure give if a few hours, and Tia will come up with another calc saying its still not fixed.
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RainbowS
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26 Dec 2015, 17:35
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Whats your point?
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The point is/was that Sandvold is having critism on the thread in general and on Tia in particular based on calcs done 5 days ago.
I'm assuming that the stats have since been changed so the calc itself are not relevant anymore.
So yes, there was an issue; that issue may have been fixed and Sandvold is now looking at the old calcs after the fixing happened and commenting that the calcs show a land which contradicts what Tia posted earlier (which is obvious since the stats were updated)
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26 Dec 2015, 18:29
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#68
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram
The point is/was that Sandvold is having critism on the thread in general and on Tia in particular based on calcs done 5 days ago.
I'm assuming that the stats have since been changed so the calc itself are not relevant anymore.
So yes, there was an issue; that issue may have been fixed and Sandvold is now looking at the old calcs after the fixing happened and commenting that the calcs show a land which contradicts what Tia posted earlier (which is obvious since the stats were updated)
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So the stats set would shut down all the arguments tia had today?
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RainbowS
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26 Dec 2015, 21:04
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
So the stats set would shut down all the arguments tia had today?
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No idea, that was not what the point was.
You asked what Patrick's point - in reply to Sandvold - was, which is explained.
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26 Dec 2015, 21:30
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#70
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
sigh ok
Tia said that your house was cold because the window was broken. A day later, you (being a professional window install person!) go to the hardware store and buy a new window and install it that night. 5 days after, Sandvoid comes along and says to Tia: "The window's not broken at all, that can't be why the house was cold! What are you talking about?"
That's not to say the house will no longer be cold, but you can't say Tia was wrong based on different data.
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26 Dec 2015, 21:32
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=auexy2isjd8esut
Every fleet setup Vs xan Fr, Now someone tell me that going xan isnt the best idea in this set of stats? Only Cath Co lands and only because emp is lower on Tzen
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R50-55 Faceless
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27 Dec 2015, 03:51
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#72
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
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Xan is according to yourself unplayable. Going xan would be very foolish.
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RainbowS
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27 Dec 2015, 19:45
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Well, clearly that was before to made them super strong.
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R50-55 Faceless
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27 Dec 2015, 19:56
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#74
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Also that calc is a Fr attack based Terran, If you flip the values of Ter Bs and Ter Fr its much harder to land that. Unless you intend on reducing Ter Bs A/C to worthless or increase fireblade D/C to god level Xan Fr will never be able to roid Ter bs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Xan, being unplayable has nothing to do with its ability to attack into Ter Bs. Xan still has to build both Fi ships, as it has no other way to cover fr or De than with fi. I admit Xan Fr has great attack options but it has the the main problem of it roids itself.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Well, clearly that was before to made them super strong.
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RainbowS
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27 Dec 2015, 20:03
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#75
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Ive always suspected that Tiamata is just a account/nick diffrent people login to just to get away with trolling.
I suspect this because you always say something diffrent from each time you appear.
Asking you what rounds you made stats, often changes from time to time, and i have to make you look two times extra to confirm your story.
If you make a argument on something being wrong, you can then again go back at it the next day.
Exactly what was changed with xan or the stats in general wich changed xan to "unplayable" to "the only choice"?
It has nothing to do with the ability to roid into terran, as you yourself said.
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RainbowS
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27 Dec 2015, 20:34
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Well then i was wrong before. Xan is not unplayable in fact its the best race in the set. You have a class that prefires EVERY thing. With decent emp resists. But since your avoiding the point you already know that and you want xan to be op.
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27 Dec 2015, 21:46
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#77
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Well then i was wrong before. Xan is not unplayable in fact its the best race in the set. You have a class that prefires EVERY thing. With decent emp resists. But since your avoiding the point you already know that and you want xan to be op.
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No, you have been deliberately tryimg to derail any discussion about trying to balance sets for rounds now.
Your in fact the only one who have been saying xan is unplayable.
If you are this unsure about how to read stats, you should keep away from discussions concerning PA stats.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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27 Dec 2015, 21:50
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
You know BB you are the one that keeps attacking the person and no their criticism. Maybe you are unable to take constructive criticism well. I pointed out to you that Xan Fr is too strong, and you've made no movement or suggestions or even admission to fix it. Instead you dwell on past posts and comments instead of current ones.
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27 Dec 2015, 23:04
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
You know BB you are the one that keeps attacking the person and no their criticism. Maybe you are unable to take constructive criticism well. I pointed out to you that Xan Fr is too strong, and you've made no movement or suggestions or even admission to fix it. Instead you dwell on past posts and comments instead of current ones.
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Be careful what you point out, he might report you!
He is a bloody hypocrite, that does personal attacks and when someone points out his flaws he goes all defensive.
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28 Dec 2015, 09:48
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#80
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
You know BB you are the one that keeps attacking the person and no their criticism. Maybe you are unable to take constructive criticism well. I pointed out to you that Xan Fr is too strong, and you've made no movement or suggestions or even admission to fix it. Instead you dwell on past posts and comments instead of current ones.
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No, its no attack towards your person, its how you conduct yourself.
If you have no clue what you are on about, and are likely to backtrack on what you claim to be right or wrong the next day, please refrain from posting here.
You are one of the most busy posters in here, and one of few claiming to be the expert on all matters.
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RainbowS
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28 Dec 2015, 13:51
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#81
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Sounds like you two are brothers.
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28 Dec 2015, 14:55
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#82
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
Sounds like you two are brothers.
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No, i never admit to have wrong, its a big difference
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RainbowS
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28 Dec 2015, 20:42
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#83
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
There is at least one scenario in which Tia may be correct: Xan was awful before. You made huge changes, and now Xan is amazing. Pointing out the strength of Xan at both points in time would not be a contradiction.
I have not looked at the stats. I do not know whether Tia's criticism is accurate or not. The above is a hypothetical.
However, regardless of whether that's the scenario we're in, you would be better off if you countered Tia's criticism by explaining how Xan was not awful before, or better yet, how Xan is not amazing now. That isn't (just) a moral argument. It's just pragmatism. While it may feel good to beat someone in argument by attacking them personally or denigrating their behaviour, that doesn't help improve your stats. And even if you feel your stats do not need improving, by leaving Tia's criticism without real counter, you give people a reason to turn down your stats.
Apparently this bcalc is the entirety of Tia's argument. If you truly believe Xan is not OP, you should be able to point out flaws. If you cannot do that, then I (playing the clueless newbie who doesn't really look at the stats, who just does what the big names say) have no choice but to believe Tia, even if he is literally 100% Hitler.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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28 Dec 2015, 20:53
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Well Myz said what every adult on this forum already knew, but apparently when dealing with BB you have to use kid gloves. I welcome you to prove points rather than just make accusations. There is no fleet solo that can roid into xan, and that makes them stronger than every other race overall. There might be races that can roid very well but in tern are roided just as easy.
The last point I will make is that you've made Xan a Race of cloaked ships a viable Solo Race strat in a stat-set that is designed around team ups. Where i see if a 50 man alliance goes ALL Xan they will have HUGE ability to attack and defend given they are all CLOAKED. You made a roiding fleet that fires before all others(except emp), and they are cloaked. Tell me how this isnt going to be 50% xan round?
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28 Dec 2015, 21:29
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#85
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
There is at least one scenario in which Tia may be correct: Xan was awful before. You made huge changes, and now Xan is amazing. Pointing out the strength of Xan at both points in time would not be a contradiction.
I have not looked at the stats. I do not know whether Tia's criticism is accurate or not. The above is a hypothetical.
However, regardless of whether that's the scenario we're in, you would be better off if you countered Tia's criticism by explaining how Xan was not awful before, or better yet, how Xan is not amazing now. That isn't (just) a moral argument. It's just pragmatism. While it may feel good to beat someone in argument by attacking them personally or denigrating their behaviour, that doesn't help improve your stats. And even if you feel your stats do not need improving, by leaving Tia's criticism without real counter, you give people a reason to turn down your stats.
Apparently this bcalc is the entirety of Tia's argument. If you truly believe Xan is not OP, you should be able to point out flaws. If you cannot do that, then I (playing the clueless newbie who doesn't really look at the stats, who just does what the big names say) have no choice but to believe Tia, even if he is literally 100% Hitler.
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The argument was that Fireblade was not cloaked(meaning faking was less of a option vs CR/BS allies), and they had to split their value "more or less" 50/50 for FI and FR, since they had no other anti FR/DE in any other classes.
Now there will be a slight "re-doing" of the roach/avenger interaction to balance BS out a little more.
Are they unplayable? Surely no, even though thats what Tia has been saying for the last weeks.
Are they overpowered? No.
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8cm8ft3hi6zxqvu
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=kk2tytr8nyvjcxz
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=x9zg68vezd3v38q
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=zwf9kpsb1bnfzef
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=m2ywr6j7hblaz4e
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=zhnrtrvkrwx3xdx
There is one thing yet to be fixed in the stats, and thats the cat DE + FR races interaction, and moving Avenger to init 1/2 and roaches to 2/3 would fix the "biggest" issues.
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RainbowS
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28 Dec 2015, 21:40
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#86
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Well Myz said what every adult on this forum already knew, but apparently when dealing with BB you have to use kid gloves. I welcome you to prove points rather than just make accusations. There is no fleet solo that can roid into xan, and that makes them stronger than every other race overall. There might be races that can roid very well but in tern are roided just as easy.
The last point I will make is that you've made Xan a Race of cloaked ships a viable Solo Race strat in a stat-set that is designed around team ups. Where i see if a 50 man alliance goes ALL Xan they will have HUGE ability to attack and defend given they are all CLOAKED. You made a roiding fleet that fires before all others(except emp), and they are cloaked. Tell me how this isnt going to be 50% xan round?
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[16:39] <Tia> Fi is unplayable
[16:39] <Tia> thus xan is unplayable
[16:39] <Tia> so its a 4 man race and any calc that has xan in it thrown out
[16:39] <B-Butch3r> well people seems to think otherwise
[16:39] <Tia> because i expect with stats as they are, xan will be less than 10%
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RainbowS
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28 Dec 2015, 23:51
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#88
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
I didnt adjust ratios, you did.
18k tzen = 16k bombers = 14k blades = 220k value
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RainbowS
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29 Dec 2015, 00:01
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#89
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
P3NGUINS will do all xan if there is a slight opportunity pls keep making xan awesome. We like attacking.
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29 Dec 2015, 00:15
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#90
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
P3NGUINS will do all xan if there is a slight opportunity pls keep making xan awesome. We like attacking.
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None of your past five rounds race strats was built around xan, so i wouldnt worry about p3nguins
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RainbowS
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29 Dec 2015, 01:01
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#91
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Because none of the stats gave xan pre fire on all classes like you have.
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29 Dec 2015, 01:08
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#92
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Because none of the stats gave xan pre fire on all classes like you have.
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CO prefire at FI/FR/DE
DE prefire FI
CR prefire FR/DE
BS prefire FR/DE
Once again you are wrong
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RainbowS
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29 Dec 2015, 01:33
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#93
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Well there's no real way to tell anymore, since your stats got pulled from beta.
But you had all 3 xan fr at init 4 with ONLY emp being able to pre-fire them, emp that is easily flacked and faked against.
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29 Dec 2015, 11:55
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#94
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Well there's no real way to tell anymore, since your stats got pulled from beta.
But you had all 3 xan fr at init 4 with ONLY emp being able to pre-fire them, emp that is easily flacked and faked against.
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Well thats how EMP works.
And anyway, since stealers will be value gaining on steal they will win by default, im sure you said that allready too.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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29 Dec 2015, 13:35
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#95
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
None of your past five rounds race strats was built around xan, so i wouldnt worry about p3nguins
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I never mentioned past rounds.
Bitcher doing his usual crap taking everything in to his warped context.
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29 Dec 2015, 15:06
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#96
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
You mentioned wanting to go Xan as often as possible. The fact that you haven't gone Xan the past 5 rounds therefore implies that Xan was mediocre (at best) the past 5 rounds. I don't really remember all of those stats, but that seems unlikely. It's Xan, after all.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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29 Dec 2015, 18:34
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#97
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Where do I mention wanting to go xan "as often as possible".
I said p3nguins will do all xan if there is a slight opportunity. Since Bitchy and Tia sway towards it being good and bad in this thread I'm happy for you to make it great.
Sad day when you have to explain posts to people because they are too busy over analysing everything mentioned. Perhaps this is why stats are being discussed for weeks on end by people who apparently see themselves as "stats makers" yet we always seem to end up with a pile of shit no one wants to play. My suggestion would be to take a step back and stop trying to be awesome because it inevitably is resulting in fail hard stats each round.
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29 Dec 2015, 22:01
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#98
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
I always go Xan, so please make them awesome. I need all the help I can get.
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I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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30 Dec 2015, 09:32
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#99
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
Where do I mention wanting to go xan "as often as possible".
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Ah, right, you didn't actually say that. However, it's a reasonable extrapolation from what you did say, namely wanting to go Xan if you had a slight opportunity, which I took to mean "when Xan is at least OK". I reasoned that an alliance that wants to go Xan this round would prefer going Xan in other rounds as well. What's special about this particular round that's making you want to go Xan extra-much?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 30 Dec 2015 at 09:37.
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30 Dec 2015, 11:37
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#100
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: BB stats r65(again)
You do know he is trolling mz?
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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