Planetarion Forums - could the title music for Enterprise have gotten any worse ??

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by madi

who?

From Babylon 5.

Mark is attempting to turn it into a meaningless competetion between series for no good reason.

madi · 23 Jan 2004, 14:35

but babylon 5 was awful
so very much worse than the worst holodeck episode from any of the star trek series

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by madi

but babylon 5 was awful

I would respectfully say that if you like Trek (in any form) you should probably watch it from the beginning.

So long as you follow the below rules, you will enjoy it :
1. Ignore some of the production values.
2. Ignore the fanboy nonsense you may have heard up until now about it.

The story telling is a lot richer and more developed than in any of the Trek series, but as I say, it's not a competetion. I enjoy both.

Vermillion · 23 Jan 2004, 16:13

To be fair, the first season of B5 was not great. It was full of 'Dukes of Hazard' episodes*, silly trek-esque plot twists and though a neat character, The original captain was simply not a very good actor.

Season two started far more into the standing plot line, and characters started to develop past being steriotypes. By season four the show kicked a startling amount of ass.

*'Dukes of Hazard' episodes: No matter what, by the next episode Coltraine will have a new cop Car, Hogg will have started on an entirely new plan, Bo and Luke will have forgotten their recent moral lessons, and nothign whatsoever will have changed....

Leshy · 23 Jan 2004, 16:27

I've seen some B5, and I've never been able to like it.

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 16:30

I don't think you can really judge individual episodes like you can with, say, Voyager or TNG. The reason why I suggest watching it from the beginning because the storyline unfolds from the very beginning and if you watch some of the later episodes only it won't make much sense.

Leshy · 23 Jan 2004, 16:36

I've seen a bunch of episodes around the start, but I found it to be a bit of a bore - not unlike current Enterprise series.

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 16:40

One of the refreshing things about B5 (at the time) is that they didn't necessarily have the need to engage in tedios Trek style moralising. Since this was on at a time where TNG was on auto-repeat on TV, that made it pretty cool. I also enjoyed it because of it's (superficial) similarity to the Elite 2 universe.

The lack of morality is one of the reasons why I've also recently been enjoying "Firefly" which sadly has been cancelled.

Vermillion · 23 Jan 2004, 16:47

YEAS!

Firefly remains one of the best show I have ever seen produced on network television. I bought the DVD of the series, but I find I cannot watch it because I get so infuriated with the talking monkeys at Fox who cancel anything of quality in favour of more heinous episodes of 'Bachelorette Bob' or 'Fast animals, slow Children'.

Evergreen · 23 Jan 2004, 16:51

They are working on a firefly movie which may relaunch the series.

Tbh I was slightly worried where they were going to go with river's character after that final episode.

madi · 23 Jan 2004, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I would respectfully say that if you like Trek (in any form) you should probably watch it from the beginning.

So long as you follow the below rules, you will enjoy it :
1. Ignore some of the production values.
2. Ignore the fanboy nonsense you may have heard up until now about it.

The story telling is a lot richer and more developed than in any of the Trek series, but as I say, it's not a competetion. I enjoy both.

i watched it, the first few series and some of the last one
i didnt like the first ones very much
and i didnt like the whole i am the profit thing in the last

star trek i mostly watch from loyalty these days
i cant help it i am old and i grew up with it
(not the original, i am not as old as DM fs)

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

To be fair, the first season of B5 was not great. It was full of 'Dukes of Hazard' episodes*, silly trek-esque plot twists and though a neat character, The original captain was simply not a very good actor.

I think the first season of B5 is underrated. Although it's not the same format as the later series (it's much more of a 'star trek' style individual episode whatsit type thing), it actually has a high number of good episodes.

I mean, they took an episode about a dying boy and made it GOOD.

The best season is S3, in my opinion.

ps.

Bester is an amoral secret police type telepath, who's played by Walter Koenig, who played Checkov in TOS.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

From Babylon 5.

Mark is attempting to turn it into a meaningless competetion between series for no good reason.

If you hadn't noticed, I was comparing characters, not series.

For instance, Garak is a superior character to, say, Worf in TNG, but it doesn't mean that DS9's better.

I was just saying that Bester does the whole 'sinister with unknown motives' thing better.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Prophet.

The one who turns into a crow, from Warcraft III?

madi · 23 Jan 2004, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Prophet.

sorry

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Just educating Madi.

I prefer my interpretation.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Don't apologise, I don't care, I just thought it was important to point out that they are spealt differently. Although I don't know why.

Spealt eh?

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

If I were going to be a Crow I would say "Never more"

You anticonformist you.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Tatht wad a typo, maybe.

Come of it sunny jim, or I'll come round to your house with all the other... policemen and arrest... your arse.

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 17:24

T&F : Your typing is atrocious in general, so I'd avoid criticising others. (and no, mine isn't much better)

MrL : I see Garak and Bester as two different types of characters. Bester is better as the evil dodgy guy, Garak is more like a Machiavellian who's fundamentally "on our side". When he lies, cheats, etc (e.g. "In the Pale Moonlight") it's generally in the Fed's best interests.

madi · 23 Jan 2004, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids. Yes I spelled "spelled" wrong I was hoping to scare Madi away from the thread so that I could buy it and have the hidden treasure, and i'd do it again I tell you.

you're a bit strange arent you

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

MrL : I see Garak and Bester as two different types of characters. Bester is better as the evil dodgy guy, Garak is more like a Machiavellian who's fundamentally "on our side". When he lies, cheats, etc (e.g. "In the Pale Moonlight") it's generally in the Fed's best interests.

Bester isn't fundamentally evil though; see 'Ship of Tears', for instance. If you swapped the Federation for the PsiCorps, they would line up extremely well.

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 17:39

Yeah but the Federation are supposed to be all sweetness and light (we almost never see them in a negative light) whereas the same can't be said for the PsiCorps.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Yeah but the Federation are supposed to be all sweetness and light (we almost never see them in a negative light) whereas the same can't be said for the PsiCorps.

That's because Trek is (mostly) about GOOD vs EVIL. There's very little middle ground.

However, Bester is a more rounded character, who honestly believes that he's doing the best for the people he represents, even if he does cut corners to achieve his aims.

A better comparison for the relationship between Garak and the Federation would be the marriage of convenience between Bester and Sheridan.

Evergreen · 23 Jan 2004, 17:53

Can we get back on to firefly it's infinitely more interesting than talking about series that have died and in one case a series that has refused to die, created a shitty spin-off and cashed in like a fat cow with some horrible cgi inflated videos.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

Can we get back on to firefly it's infinitely more interesting than talking about series that have died and in one case a series that has refused to die, created a shitty spin-off and cashed in like a fat cow with some horrible cgi inflated videos.

I don't think either Babylon 5 or DS9 died, duder, given that they both finished their prospective runs (5 years and 7 years respectively). The franchises may refuse to die, but that's more to do with the money men than the series in question.

Plus, if you want to talk about Firefly, why don't you TALK ABOUT FIREFLY, instead of complaining about what other people want to talk about?

Evergreen · 23 Jan 2004, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I don't think either Babylon 5 or DS9 died, duder, given that they both finished their prospective runs (5 years and 7 years respectively). The franchises may refuse to die, but that's more to do with the money men than the series in question.

Plus, if you want to talk about Firefly, why don't you TALK ABOUT FIREFLY, instead of complaining about what other people want to talk about?

We were then you hijacked the conversation back in a well trodden route.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

We were then you hijacked the conversation back in a well trodden route.

What, a comparison of Bester and Garak? I don't think that's been trodden much.

Also, given that the discussion had an entire 2 posts on firefly, and was back on B5 before I posted, I doubt that I 'hijacked' the conversation.

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 18:42

Stop being tiresome.

As an aside, for those interested the engineer girl (Kayleigh) from Firefly appears as a goth-type in the last episode of the first series of "Dead Like Me".

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Stop being tiresome.

I get told off for making a new topic, told of for continuing the old one, what is a boy to do*?

*drink guinness.

General Martok · 23 Jan 2004, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Yeah but the Federation are supposed to be all sweetness and light (we almost never see them in a negative light) whereas the same can't be said for the PsiCorps.

Except for the Section 31 episodes. They were quite good, and didn't show the best of The Federation....

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I get told off for making a new topic, told of for continuing the old one, what is a boy to do*?.

I wasn't mainly referring to you schnookums.

General_Martok : Section 31 was mainly meant to be an off-shoot rather than the Feds themselves.

General Martok · 23 Jan 2004, 19:52

I know, recently watched those episodes again. But when Sisco informed StarFleet HQ they tried to muffled it away. (extreme measures, 7.23)

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I wasn't mainly referring to you schnookums.

I wasn't talking to you though

Evergreen · 23 Jan 2004, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As an aside, for those interested the engineer girl (Kayleigh) from Firefly appears as a goth-type in the last episode of the first series of "Dead Like Me".

Missed the final episode of that. Tbh that series is much less promising than Firefly I just don't understand why they keep with that stuff.

I think it must be studio issues with wheedon. That or they wanted another Angel which was just plain silly to expect.

sayonara · 24 Jan 2004, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

Tbh I was slightly worried where they were going to go with river's character after that final episode.

Where were they going?

I missed it.

Phil^ · 24 Jan 2004, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

They lost a major opportunity by showing what a Federation crew could be like if they lost their technological edge. If anything, the "tech to the rescue!" plotlines were more numerous in Voyager than TNG.

A much more interesting ship they introduced was the other Starfleet vessel they met (the Equinox?) who had abandoned their morals to survive.

p.s. I mainly agree with Sunday

imo the equinox was a far prettier ship then voyager

Leshy · 24 Jan 2004, 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

imo the equinox was a far prettier ship then voyager

Steamrunner class ships are far prettier than Nova class ships.

Demon Dave · 25 Jan 2004, 00:16

personaly i prefer that crazy ship that splits in three, the one the romulans stole and the Doctor got back. i think it was called the Promethus class, or i may be thinking of stargate...

Bunga · 25 Jan 2004, 00:23

The Enterprise F is pretty cool. Don't know what class it is though.

Leshy · 25 Jan 2004, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

personaly i prefer that crazy ship that splits in three, the one the romulans stole and the Doctor got back. i think it was called the Promethus class, or i may be thinking of stargate...

That would indeed be the USS Prometheus, of the same-named class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunga

The Enterprise F is pretty cool. Don't know what class it is though.

There is no Enterprise F. The most recent one is the USS Enterprise NCC-1701E, a Sovereign class ship.

General Martok · 25 Jan 2004, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

That would indeed be the USS Prometheus, of the same-named class.
There is no Enterprise F. The most recent one is the USS Enterprise NCC-1701E, a Sovereign class ship.

Last Episode of TNG. All good things.... That was an Enterprise, and I'm pretty sure it was F...

MrL_JaKiri · 25 Jan 2004, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Martok

Last Episode of TNG. All good things.... That was an Enterprise, and I'm pretty sure it was F...

Nope, modified enterprise D.

Leshy · 25 Jan 2004, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Nope, modified enterprise D.

http://www.shiporama.org/images/galaxy/refitd35.jpg is a capture from said episode which indeed clearly shows that the future Enterprise is the refitted Galaxy-class NCC-1701D.

Ironically, that entire future doesn't happen.

Proteus · 25 Jan 2004, 14:04

There was a Relativity G, though, and that looked rather pretty.

Bunga · 25 Jan 2004, 16:08

How could that have been a refitted Galaxy class? Last I saw it it looked completely different.

MrL_JaKiri · 25 Jan 2004, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunga

How could that have been a refitted Galaxy class? Last I saw it it looked completely different.

He's talking about the one in All Good Things, which just has a third nacelle added (basically)

Leshy · 25 Jan 2004, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

There was a Relativity G, though, and that looked rather pretty.

Considering it came from the 29th century, it certainly did have a certain

-factor.

Proteus · 25 Jan 2004, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

He's talking about the one in All Good Things, which just has a third nacelle added (basically)

It also had an enormous gun on the bottom of the saucer section.

The third nacelle just made it look dumb, though.

Bunga · 25 Jan 2004, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

He's talking about the one in All Good Things, which just has a third nacelle added (basically)

Plus a huge phaser with punch enough to smash through the shields and hull of a klingon battlecruiser in one go, stealth capability and it could go Warp 17 iirc.