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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 18:57   #1
Stew
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Google Mail

Surely this is too good to be true?
Surely if its not then hotmail will be out of business soon (apart from businesses etc that use hotmail address so harder to change ofc)

Thoughts?
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:01   #2
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Re: Google Mail

doesnt support opera though
but yes, i will still be keeping my hotmail addy though, might get a gmail one as well to keep stuff in
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:06   #3
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Re: Google Mail

Gmail does not currently support your browser
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:19   #4
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Gmail does not currently support your browser
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:26   #5
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Re: Google Mail

this would be harkening back to most people around here using opera then
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:28   #6
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Re: Google Mail

msn messenger...

but anyway - hopefully some competition will make hotmail sort itself out.
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:28   #7
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Re: Google Mail

Quite an intresting piece of info, BUT how are they going to be able to provide this service without charging? 1GB is a lot of data if you take into account a potential user base of lets say.... 100million accounts (read accounts not users). Thats a lot of money going with no apparant easy return.

Makes you wonder.
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:34   #8
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Re: Google Mail

How do I join?
Not because I'm tempted just the <coolness>@google.co.uk or whatever enticed me

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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:47   #9
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexDrax
Quite an intresting piece of info, BUT how are they going to be able to provide this service without charging? 1GB is a lot of data if you take into account a potential user base of lets say.... 100million accounts (read accounts not users). Thats a lot of money going with no apparant easy return.

Makes you wonder.
How many users do you think will use this 1GB? I think people with a normal e-mail behaviour have trouble even filling 20MB in a year.

But I read something else, that g-mail is running into problems with the privacy of their users.
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 19:57   #10
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
How many users do you think will use this 1GB? I think people with a normal e-mail behaviour have trouble even filling 20MB in a year.

But I read something else, that g-mail is running into problems with the privacy of their users.
True most wont even come close to their GB of space, but your forgetting, the more room users get the faster they will fill it up, so users having like 100MB of email stuff I can see very easily.

Now lets take it a step further, 100MB with 100million users....well as you can see its going to be a big number (10,000 TB). Thats a lot of money to be spending on space for a free service. Lets assume 100GB costs about $50 USD (assume not really accurate and too lazy to check).
That mans 10,000 TB costs 5 Mill USD. Thats just the HD space, factor in bandwidth, redundancy, switches etc... it adds up pretty quick for cost.
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 20:13   #11
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Re: Google Mail

ah yes, but they float this year, so they will have the money, plus it will attract more users, meaning that they can charge more for the services that they already offer
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Unread 5 Apr 2004, 20:37   #12
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Re: Google Mail

Looks rather the dog's nads
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 01:28   #13
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Re: Google Mail

I thought this was an april fools joke - guess not
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 06:31   #14
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Google's recently announced Gmail-service is under heavy scrutiny by privacy protectors, according to The Register. The new service was announced on Thursday, and is supposed to offer 1Gb of storage for free, around five hundred times as much as for example Hotmail. In a fancy news message, the search engine company announced that the revenue will be gathered by displaying Google Ads, based on the contents of the emails. What analysts are even more worried about, though, is that the collected data will be stored in the Google-cookie, which remains in existence until 2038 and which also contains all searches performed using Google. Including the Orkut cookie, which has an equally long lifespan and contains the name of the user, Google would be able to get a very detailed image of a user, which even contains correspondence, next to search items and personal information.

The problem is increased by Gmail's license agreement, which explicitly states that deleting email does not automatically mean that it's removed from the servers; Google may choose to keep a copy of the mail. Even after deleting an account, messages can be stored for obscure reasons. Additionally, Googles co-cretor Larry Page refuses to exclude the possibility that the gathered data from Google and Gmail will not be linked to each other: "It could be very useful for us to have this information." On the mail service website is announced that linking this information may improve search results, but the question is how far users are willing to give up their privacy in exchange for 1Gb of permanent mail storage. Analysts add that even if the current Google staff only has benevolent intentions, it is completely unclear what could be done with the data in case of, for example, a company takeover.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:19   #15
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Re: Google Mail

spymac offer a free 1gb service - im thinking of signing up so i can store programs on there so i can run them anywhere
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 10:00   #16
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Re: Google Mail

what leshy said - google be evil
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 10:47   #17
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Re: Google Mail

anyone else have a feeling if they signed up and sent an email saying BOMB THE WHITE HOUSE the feds would be knocking through the door within minutes...?
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 10:50   #18
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
anyone else have a feeling if they signed up and sent an email saying BOMB THE WHITE HOUSE the feds would be knocking through the door within minutes...?
this is gonna happen no matter which service you use...
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:05   #19
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
anyone else have a feeling if they signed up and sent an email saying BOMB THE WHITE HOUSE the feds would be knocking through the door within minutes...?
Hmmm, no. Simply because people send those kind of stupid e-mails all the time.

If there is a big-brother conspiracy to read all our tedious e-mails (and there isn't). it probably has some kind of Google style "terrorist ranking index". If you've written an e-mail which contains the words Saudi Arabia, Palestine, fertiliser, semtex, Madrid, and hundreds of other code words, etc then maybe you could be flagged up. But one e-mail would be lost in the noise.

Thinking about it, a Google style search of all our e-mails would be pretty useful for CIA type purposes.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:08   #20
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Re: Google Mail

i was kind of simplifying things...

BTW - I heard that if you send an email containing certain words to yourself.
Then send another 'innocent' email to yourself.
You will get the second one before the first one...

Havent tried it but could be an interesting experiment...
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:10   #21
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Re: Google Mail

Sounds like bollocks to me.
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Unread 7 Apr 2004, 12:18   #22
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Re: Google Mail

I'll sign up.
I'll still do everything important through my yahoo mail though, cos i still really like it, without the default theme ofc.
Worth a gander.
Licence argreement may change the tide of everyone loving google though.
Pitty, i see this as the beginning of the end.
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 12:32   #23
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Re: Google Mail

Do bare in mind that two of bush's closest republican allies pretty much own Google.

They bought out a lot of the company and something tell's me this is the carrot they are offering in the hope to spy on everyone in their neurotic grand scheme of things.
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 12:56   #24
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Re: Google Mail

Someone please inform me if Sunday is talking out of his arse.
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 13:14   #25
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Re: Google Mail

The company isn't even publicly floated yet, and is still in the hands of it's founders (afaik).

So I'm not sure what he means by "bought out a lot of the company"...
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 13:20   #26
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Re: Google Mail

I can't find anything on the internet.

Looks like, Sunday is Wrong®?
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 13:23   #27
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
BTW - I heard that if you send an email containing certain words to yourself.
Then send another 'innocent' email to yourself.
You will get the second one before the first one...

Havent tried it but could be an interesting experiment...
its bs - i just tried it
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 13:56   #28
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Re: Google Mail

What, your beta testing gmail?
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 15:06   #29
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Re: Google Mail

http://www.google-watch.org/

They are everywhere! You can't run, you can't hide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111112
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 16:09   #30
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Re: Google Mail

Why does the cookie only last till 2038? Does the world end then, or is it just an arbitary date?
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 16:47   #31
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammers
Why does the cookie only last till 2038? Does the world end then, or is it just an arbitary date?

http://www.deepsky.com/~merovech/2038.html

the 32 bit time stamp runs out.
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 17:12   #32
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagonecologyst
I can't find anything on the internet.

Looks like, Sunday is Wrong®?
http://www.google-watch.org/bigbro.html
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Unread 8 Apr 2004, 18:18   #33
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
Googlewatch is brilliant, in the same way that Zar is brilliant.
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Unread 9 Apr 2004, 01:45   #34
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
Where in that link does it say that "They [Bush's closest Republican allies] bought out a lot of the company"?

As I say, it's a private company that's currently owned (afaik) by Page and Brink. After the IPO then sure, random shady types can buy out a lot of the company. But you specifically said that had already ocurred. Are you going to back that assertion up with some specifics?
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Unread 9 Apr 2004, 02:11   #35
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
You do realize that Daniel Brandt is a notorious conspiracy theorist and his claims against Google are largely asinine and unfounded?

Anyway, many people are quick to say that this 1GB space thing is silly and Google doesn't stand to make much money, but they don't think this through or don't understand how search engines works as an industry.

Nothing is free. SEs don't offer up search for your amusement. Google is expected to IPO roughly 1/3rd of it's stock at a value of $4bn. It didn't get there because everyone loves google and is happy to support it.

Google stands to make a shitload of money on gmail through a couple of main avenues.

1. Applied Semantics technology used on your privately stored and indexed email. This enables them to "read" your email without compromising your privacy and to serve you ads from their adsense program that are contextually relevant to your interests. For anyone who doesn't know, this is a huge industry. One of my clients spends $1.1million a month in Google Adsense advertising all by themselves. Cost per CLICK runs $10+ on some key terms.

2. Mind Share, Mind Share, Mind Share. The more you use google, the more you think of google as a part of life. Microsoft didn't get so bloody big by being jerks, they got there by convincing everyone that they had to use their product....When people think PC's, they think windows. When people think Internet, Google wants you to think Google. This ties into point one again, as the more people that use google, the more money they make from advertisers.
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Unread 9 Apr 2004, 02:12   #36
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Re: Google Mail

Dante :


Echelon.

google it
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Unread 9 Apr 2004, 02:15   #37
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Where in that link does it say that "They [Bush's closest Republican allies] bought out a lot of the company"?

As I say, it's a private company that's currently owned (afaik) by Page and Brink. After the IPO then sure, random shady types can buy out a lot of the company. But you specifically said that had already ocurred. Are you going to back that assertion up with some specifics?
There are supposedly links between the two capital investment firms that have a stake in google and the government. Also, Google supplies the intranet search technology for most government agencies, as they do for many many other companies (this is one of the little known sides of their business)

Anyway, Brandt is a nut. I can't find the links but he's written some fairly far-fetched, tabloidish conspiracy theory papers.

*edit* and as JJ pointed out, google search technology is apparently used in government datamining operations, but I'm not necessarily sure this is "damning" in any way, shape or form./
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Unread 9 Apr 2004, 02:28   #38
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
Dante :

Echelon.

google it
I'm not sure why this is relevent. I'm well aware of the possible evilness of applications of this kind of technology. Check my earlier posts.

But my specific question related to the legal ownership of Google. I've no problem with the idea that the Government throws a lot of business Google's way. Sunday said Google had been largely _bought out_ by Bush' allies. The link he posted had vague diagrams about venture capitalists, but this didn't indicate that Brin & Page had sold the company.

I like Google as a search engine. They came along at a point when the 'net was in danger of being filled with cluttered portals, advertisements, etc. Thanks to them, we had a pretty strong renaissance in "keeping it simple" design which I'll be eternally greatful. I also love their engine, and have used it literally thousands of times. But they are ultimately a company operating in a capitalist economy and thus they are the enemy.

I'm all for raging against the machine, but I'm not particularly keen on making shit up. If nothing else, it detracts from very legitimate concerns on privacy, etc.
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Unread 9 Apr 2004, 02:39   #39
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Re: Google Mail

I'm still highly amused that someone thought that two of the largest capital investment firms in the country having links with rich people in government was anything but "to be expected".
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Unread 10 Apr 2004, 06:51   #40
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Re: Google Mail

is it going to be @gmail.com (that would be gay), @gmail.google.com (gay-er, cuz it would be longer) or @google.com which woulr roxor?
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Are you sh*tting me? You mean my negrep is SOO LOW my opinion is worthless?
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Unread 10 Apr 2004, 06:56   #41
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Re: Google Mail

Originally Posted by Jammers
Why does the cookie only last till 2038? Does the world end then, or is it just an arbitary date?

on my school account, the cookies say they last till the end of time, but dont actually give a date?..strange i think ie Saturday 4/10/04 till the end of time.
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Unread 10 Apr 2004, 09:55   #42
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdeathstar
is it going to be @gmail.com (that would be gay), @gmail.google.com (gay-er, cuz it would be longer) or @google.com which woulr roxor?
I very much doubt it would be @google.com (they'd keep that for themselves, surely).

What's wrong with @gmail.com? It's easy to remember, and doesn't involve much typing.
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Unread 10 Apr 2004, 16:51   #43
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Re: Google Mail

it probably won't be any of those now. The Marketing Age, a uk company, has been using a "gmail" service for the last 2 years. This is going to put google in a fairly unwinnable trademark situation should they continue using the name unless they pay TMA for the rights (which from statements made, doesn't seem likely unless it was a LOT of money)
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Unread 13 Apr 2004, 19:18   #44
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Re: Google Mail

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3621169.stm

more problems for google mail it seems.
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Unread 13 Apr 2004, 19:35   #45
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPeach
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3621169.stm

more problems for google mail it seems.
Google will tell them to get bent, it's notorious for it. As for the cali state law, it'll reach the supreme court faster than you cna blink as there is no legal precedent or constitutional grounds to support dictating how a private company can provide an optional service.

Basically, people are being stupid. They're objecting to crap that they don't even have to use. Hell, one of the guys objecting under that article claims google is "snooping" because it read and indexed his posts on public forums and newsgroups....
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Unread 13 Apr 2004, 20:53   #46
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandsnake
claims google is "snooping" because it read and indexed his posts on public forums and newsgroups....
Quote:
No doubt in my mind that Google has already shown itself to be a leader in snooping. They already make public EVERY post you make on newsgroups/discussion groups. They may be big and powerful but I will never use their email system and if any of my friends do, I will notify them that I will not reply or write to a Google email system.
Fight the power !
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Unread 13 Apr 2004, 21:07   #47
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Re: Google Mail

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPeach
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3621169.stm

more problems for google mail it seems.
I find the government passing laws banning private companies from storing data that people have freely agreed to give them to be hilariously ironic.


edit: however it's probably not quite as ironic as a 'Privacy advocation group' appealing to a state appointed 'Minister of Information' to prevent a company from doing this, which is mentioned later in the article
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