Saddam on trial...

[pyirt]

Post your thoughts. Have you seen the latest piccys on Sky.

[Evergreen]

He's still the president of Iraq and as such they can't convict him of anything under this puppet bush government.

[Dante Hicks]

What?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

What?

It's what he's claiming.
Also what Milosevic did.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Stew

It's what he's claiming.
Also what Milosevic did.

I was checking if Sunday actually believed that.

[IncubusGod]

Actually the previous Iraqi constitution that was drafted, by the Queens Council of all people, expressly includes the clause that a reigning monarch/head of state is immune from all prosicution for acts committed while in power.

Should be interesting how the US puppet lawyers manage to wrangle him into being eligible for prosicuition. Currently no court would have jurisdiction for this except the International Criminal Court. Why dont they use that..oh wait...the US refused to support it. They were afraid their old leaders might be tried. Oh well, it would have been handy now.

Ofc they need the trial to be in Iraq to show everyone what happens to "bad bad people" so long as they aren't american.

[pyirt]

I don `t think it `ll be boring. I just wonder whats going to happen next? Victors always write the history in war; Stalin was always good at show trials. I guess Saddam knows this more than anyone...

[IncubusGod]

Hehe the judge should sit at the top of the room smoking a cigar while Sadamm get's dragged outside and shot by shady security men. Poetic justice.

[Dante Hicks]

I don't really see how constitutional protections really apply when a countries government has been destroyed.

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

Actually the previous Iraqi constitution that was drafted, by the Queens Council of all people, expressly includes the clause that a reigning monarch/head of state is immune from all prosicution for acts committed while in power.

The Iraqi constitution was rewritten in 1990. I find it difficult to believe the Queen's Council had much input to it. In any case, the 1990 constitution was superceded by the 2004 interim constitution.

Should be interesting how the US puppet lawyers manage to wrangle him into being eligible for prosicuition.

It's the Iraqis who are prosecuting him. The US is in no hurry to try him and if it were up to us we'd probably let him sit in jail for a several more years.

Currently no court would have jurisdiction for this except the International Criminal Court.

I see absolutely no reason why Iraq wouldn't or shouldn't have jurisdiction. The bulk of his crimes were committed against Iraqis--they should be the ones to try him.

[pyirt]

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

Hehe the judge should sit at the top of the room smoking a cigar while Sadamm get's dragged outside and shot by shady security men. Poetic justice.

Yeah. Saddam in his own mind would never have thought this day would come to him. I think in recent history the condemed is usually allowed a ciggy before being shot by firing squad :/

[IncubusGod]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

The Iraqi constitution was rewritten in 1990. I find it difficult to believe the Queen's Council had much input to it. In any case, the 1990 constitution was superceded by the 2004 interim constitution.

It's the Iraqis who are prosecuting him. The US is in no hurry to try him and if it were up to us we'd probably let him sit in jail for a several more years.

I see absolutely no reason why Iraq wouldn't or shouldn't have jurisdiction. The bulk of his crimes were committed against Iraqis--they should be the ones to try him.

I was just quoting his lawyer who was on Irish radio yesterday talking about this. How they managed to get his lawyer I will never know but the guy is like english or american or something.
Put that on your CV.

"Defended a Mass Murderering Psychotic Despot" \o/

[Dante Hicks]

Weren't they getting the French ex-communist guy to defend him? The one who defended the NAZI in France?

He could have been interesting.

[IncubusGod]

There's probably a team of evil lawyers. Wonder who's going to pay them. Can Sadam pay them from that suitcase with the $700,000 they found him with? Heh.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

There's probably a team of evil lawyers. Wonder who's going to pay them. Can Sadam pay them from that suitcase with the $700,000 they found him with? Heh.

Would they not do it for free? Looks bloody good on CV if they win even if they will be hated heh.
Plus fame and er....knowin lots of secret stuff.

[acropolis]

i love the part about how
'either way, under the interim government they will not be able to change laws and therefore the death penalty cannot be reinstated until after the elections'
the next day
'they have just reinstated the death penalty...'

Fox News is my fave.
I already hate Allawi tho. Good thing he'll be getting knocked off any day now.

[Marilyn Manson]

Bring back Goering.

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

There's probably a team of evil lawyers. Wonder who's going to pay them. Can Sadam pay them from that suitcase with the $700,000 they found him with? Heh.

I'm sure they'd do it for free--for the publicity.

You should see the stampede of lawyers rushing to represent Guantanamo detainees, now that the Supreme Court has ruled they can petition for a writ of habeas corpus.

Originally Posted by acropolis

i love the part about how
'either way, under the interim government they will not be able to change laws and therefore the death penalty cannot be reinstated until after the elections'
the next day
'they have just reinstated the death penalty...'

It will be interesting to see if they can complete Saddam's trial before the elections.

[Zar]

i hope he gets away with it.

only because his trial is going to be blatently unfair and i hate the americans and the british (occupiers/imperialists)

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

It will be interesting to see if they can complete Saddam's trial before the elections.

Hardly likely. The propopsed start for the trial based on the current timetable is in December. The elections are due next January. Even if it started immediately, they have thirty tons of documents to get through.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Zar

only because his trial is going to be blatently unfair

How so?

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

How so?

puppet government, puppet judge, puppet jury and probably a pre-determined result

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Zar

i hope he gets away with it.

only because his trial is going to be blatently unfair and i hate the americans and the british (occupiers/imperialists)

Were you stamping your feet when you wrote that ?

~Vaio~

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

i heard they were going to give him the death penalty. unfortunately david beckham will be taking it LOL

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Vaio

Were you stamping your feet when you wrote that ?

~Vaio~

no and i dont get the joke (if it is one)

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Zar

and probably a pre-determined result

I don't see how it will be actively unfree. Regardless of your opinion on the interim government, simply stating that they are a 'puppet' body does not prove the whether or not the trial will be illiegitimate.

Anyway, I think the idea that he should 'get away with it' just based solely on your hatred for the Americans is a repulsive notion.

I assume you would wish him to 'get away with it', regardless of the status of the trial? Even if it was conducted freely and fairly in an international court?

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

I don't see how it will be actively unfree. Regardless of your opinion on the interim government, simply stating that they are a 'puppet' body does not prove the whether or not the trial will be illiegitimate.

Anyway, I think the idea that he should 'get away with it' just based solely on your hatred for the Americans is a repulsive notion.

I assume you would wish him to 'get away with it', regardless of the status of the trial? Even if it was conducted freely and fairly in an international court?

well stating that it is a puppet body is good enough objectively for my own opinion on the fairness of the trial. We each have different opinions (none of us are all knowing).

As for the option of him getting trialed in a free and fair internation court... hmmm im divided on that. I don't believe that there is a truely free and fair court to date (i dont believe the hague is free and fair enough (still a lot of western influence). Also the fact that i don't believe saddam to be any worse than bush or blair (i dont take numbers into consideration - all 3 of them killed innocent people as far as im concerned). If saddam is trialed it would be hypocritical to not trial bush, blair, rumsfeld. cheny, etc.. etc...

It is only fair to judge if all are judged equally. In this case that isnt the fact -so even though saddam may be a nutcase crackpot - if other people can get away for similar crimes... so should he

[Vaio]

So what is your opinion of the Nurenburg trials Zar ?

~Vaio~

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Zar

well stating that it is a puppet body is good enough objectively for my own opinion on the fairness of the trial.

Well, you haven't even offered any evidence that it is a puppet body, let alone that this 'puppet' status will impact on the trial. What you've said so far are statements, not arguments.

Originally Posted by Zar

(still a lot of western influence).

What?!

And don't say 'It's founded by the west therefore it's evul.' (Although I know in your mind this is undoubtedley the case.) I want evidence that the procedures that take place are actively unfair in determining a person's guilt or innocence. Personally, I don't see that they are. It's origin is irrelevant; it could be a product of Ancient Babylon, for all I care.

Originally Posted by Zar

Also the fact that i don't believe saddam to be any worse than bush or blair (i dont take numbers into consideration - all 3 of them killed innocent people as far as im concerned). If saddam is trialed it would be hypocritical to not trial bush, blair, rumsfeld. cheny, etc.. etc...

Again, what?

So you're arguing against trying Saddam freely, simply because Bush and Blair aren't being tried simultaneously with him?

People should be tried for their crimes individually, on a case-by case basis. Whether Blair or Bush are going to be indicted at the exact same time as Saddam is totally irrelevant to whether Saddam should be indicted at the moment.

Unless you're suggesting that no world leader is tried for anything until we are in a position whereby every single world leader can be tried simultaneously for whatever charge.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Vaio

So what is your opinion of the Nurenburg trials Zar ?

~Vaio~

Presumably because we couldn't concurrently try Stalin for the purges and the great terror, we should have kept Goering et al in indefinite detention, or released them without charge.

[JonnyBGood]

It'll be interesting to find out where they'll find an impartial jury? Finally a use for those 12 martians we kidnapped!


PS I support the separation of his limbs from his body live on international tv with the proceeds going towards relieving the suffering of the Iraqi people. Win/win scenario.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It'll be interesting to find out where they'll find an impartial jury? Finally a use for those 12 martians we kidnapped!

They might not have a jury trial. Many European countries don't.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

PS I support the separation of his limbs from his body live on international tv with the proceeds going towards relieving the suffering of the Iraqi people. Win/win scenario.

Let's auction Nodrog, and spend the money on booze. Win/Win scenario.

[JonnyBGood]

Yes, but what kind of beer can we buy with sixty-five pence?

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

hi. i cant help but noticing my joke didnt get the LOLs it deserved

[Marilyn Manson]

Well, of course, we won't tell the truth. We'll say he's a 1921 mint original.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua

hi. i cant help but noticing my joke didnt get the LOLs it deserved

More likely to get than

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

fascists

[Marilyn Manson]

Btw, did anyone except me think of the Duran Duran song 'Girls on Film' when they read the title?

[wu_trax]

there will be some laughable show trial which will be over after a few days and then theyll kill saddam (all live on tv, ofc).

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

there will be some laughable show trial which will be over after a few days and then theyll kill saddam (all live on tv, ofc).

I'm betting Nodrog's ass that you turn out to be talking bollocks.

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Vaio

So what is your opinion of the Nurenburg trials Zar ?

~Vaio~

do u really want me to answer that?

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Well, you haven't even offered any evidence that it is a puppet body, let alone that this 'puppet' status will impact on the trial. What you've said so far are statements, not arguments.

What?!

And don't say 'It's founded by the west therefore it's evul.' (Although I know in your mind this is undoubtedley the case.) I want evidence that the procedures that take place are actively unfair in determining a person's guilt or innocence. Personally, I don't see that they are. It's origin is irrelevant; it could be a product of Ancient Babylon, for all I care.

Again, what?

So you're arguing against trying Saddam freely, simply because Bush and Blair aren't being tried simultaneously with him?

People should be tried for their crimes individually, on a case-by case basis. Whether Blair or Bush are going to be indicted at the exact same time as Saddam is totally irrelevant to whether Saddam should be indicted at the moment.

Unless you're suggesting that no world leader is tried for anything until we are in a position whereby every single world leader can be tried simultaneously for whatever charge.

i dont need to and cant offer evidence. that is the concept of conspiracy theories. I can offer you some conspiracy theory evidence/opinion if you want - but i have a feeling it will be pointless. My own opinion (hence evidence) to myself is my severe distrust in american and british foreign policies. You are under no obligation to believe me so dont get so worked up about it.

about hague ill get back to you on that - im going to go to sleep. long day very tired.

there are a long list of western leaders who deserve to be trialed and are still getting away with their atrocities long before saddam was spreading his evils. If we do all this on a base by base , individual by individual timescale - then saddam should be down a very long line. It shouldnt be his time yet

goodnight. sleepy sleepy

[JonnyBGood]

The best thing about the most advanced conspiracy theories is that they're so complex disproving them would take so much effort and time as to make your attempt appear ridiculous.

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Zar

do u really want me to answer that?

Damn right I do

~Vaio~

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

The best thing about the most advanced conspiracy theories is that they're so complex disproving them would take so much effort and time as to make your attempt appear ridiculous.

Another good thing about advanced conspiracy theories is that the lack of evidence can be cited as proof of a coverup!

[queball]

But does the death penalty deter genocide?

[ComradeRob]

Saddam is guilty as hell. Everyone knows it. Therefore it harms nobody to have a scupulsouly fair trial, under a legal system actually approved by an elected Iraqi government. Instead we have a show trial, under a legal system designed by the Americans, with newly-appointed puppet judges and so on. Do they not realise how utterly corrupt this looks?

It's all made even worse by the fact that it's completely unnecessary - a fair trial would find Saddam guilty anyway. This puppet show farce just makes the Americans look bad. The fact that they can even look bad when trying a man reviled around the world says something about how badly they are running the whole thing.

[Sandsnake]

The point that people miss is that this has ****all to do with what you or I think about it. The only reason we handed over Saddam is to solidify the Iraqi position of self-sovereignty.

Frankly, you're all being extremely egocentric. Who gives a rats ass what YOU think? What matters is that the Iraqis percieve a motion towards self-governance and away from occupation, instead of a stagnate, bloody, imperialistic subjugation.

Until they think they have some real control over their own future, the violence will remain as strong and fervent as it has been. Once they realize that things are moving along and Iraqis are calling the shots, things will simmer down a bit.

Whether it's fair,or the whole thing is a US-directed show or not, Iraqis are going to be able to say that Saddam came to justice and it was an Iraqi that handed it out. What you think from your safe little world means very, very little in this.

[Vaio]

Go on ,admit it Sandsnake, you think he did it as well dont you

~Vaio~