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2 Jan 2003, 16:31
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#1
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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There goes Kazaa
Btw - anything else other than Kazaa around? (WinMX sucks imo.)
Quote:
U.S. liability looms over Kazaa
By John Borland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
November 25, 2002, 5:25 PM PT
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-971086.html
A Los Angeles federal judge heard arguments Monday as to whether record companies and movie studios can sue the parent company of Kazaa, the most popular online file-swapping service, in the United States.
Much of Kazaa's future, from a business and legal perspective, hangs on the judge's decision. The parent company, Sharman Networks, is headquartered in Australia and incorporated in the Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu, and has tried to keep business contact with the United States to a minimum in order to decrease its legal risk.
If a judge says Sharman can be sued in the United States, Kazaa will get sucked into the same legal maelstrom that has grabbed Napster, Aimster, Audio Galaxy, Grokster and Morpheus, closing some of the popular services and threatening the existence of the others. The Kazaa case is the biggest yet in the recent copyright wars that have been testing the international reach of U.S. courts.
The judge did not rule on the issue Monday, but observers said he appeared ready to order Sharman to stand trial. A ruling is expected in the next several weeks.
"He seemed like he was pretty interested in keeping Sharman in the case," said Fred von Lohmann, senior intellectual-property attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is representing Sharman rival Streamcast Networks in an associated case.
The issue of cross-border legal reach has become increasingly important as companies dealing in file-swapping, and other Internet businesses offering copyrighted works, have popped overseas. Record companies, movie studios and software companies have been forced to scramble and use unconventional legal and technological means to attack these services.
The Kazaa case itself may not lead to a sweeping legal precedent, however. Jurisdictional arguments rise and fall on whether a company has sufficient contact with United States residents to make it liable under U.S. law. However, in Sharman's case, the company itself has a contract with its peer-to-peer technology vendor, Blastoise, which says that disputes should be litigated in Los Angeles court, according to a record industry attorney.
"There's nothing novel in the law here," said Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) Senior Vice President Matt Oppenheim.
Sharman attorney Rod Dorman said the earlier contract has been renegotiated so that any disputes would take place in the United Kingdom, not the United States. He says the company simply hasn't had enough business contact inside the United States to be sued there.
That doesn't mean the company is trying to avoid legal contact with the record labels or movie studios altogether. The copyright holders can come to the company's headquarters in Australia and sue it there, Dorman said.
"Sharman has not purposively availed itself of the privileges of doing business in California to a sufficient amount to establish jurisdiction," Dorman said.
Sharman has expanded its operations to allow commerce activities and advertising inside its Kazaa file-swapping service over the past few months. However, it has backed away from offering a promised paid subscription service, many of the subscribers to which would have likely been U.S. residents. That decision could be revisited should a judge rule that it is already subject to U.S laws.
If Sharman loses this round, the company will be added to a larger lawsuit ongoing against Streamcast Networks and Grokster, two rival file-swapping companies that use the same underlying technology as Sharman.
A critical hearing in that case will be held Dec. 2, in which both sides will argue that the case should be concluded immediately with a so-called summary judgment without going to a full trial. Each side is arguing for the completion of the case in its own favor.
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__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
R7: Fury
----------retired-------
R52-R55: Apprime
R56-R57: FaceLess
R58-60: Apprime/Ultores
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2 Jan 2003, 16:35
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#2
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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bah.
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2 Jan 2003, 16:38
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#3
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Checkout Boy
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 622
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tossers
__________________
David Dickinson says:
you're desperate in virtually every aspect of your life
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2 Jan 2003, 16:43
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 752
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How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
__________________
<Bobzy> It's Jammers rockstargame kid
<Bobzy> Jammers is > the rest of GD/PA at it though.
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2 Jan 2003, 16:54
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#5
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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When is the first (decent) opensource filesharing proggy going to pop up? It'll be a lot harder to sue something like that
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2 Jan 2003, 16:59
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#6
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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http://www.neo-modus.com
try sueing that you bitches.
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2 Jan 2003, 17:13
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#7
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
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Not long?
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#linux
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2 Jan 2003, 17:21
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#8
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
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Imo thats a bad arguement. Its no more different then saying, how can you copyright molecules organized in a certain way.
Its not about the material but about the idea, and there are laws about that recognized by most countries on this planet.
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2 Jan 2003, 17:37
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#9
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Throwing Shapes
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 797
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
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Erm, How do you think music is stored on CD's you buy dude? I think that argument would be thrown out of court quite sharpish.
Hmmm, again slightly shallow arguement.
__________________
Time is an Illusion, Lunchtime doubly so.
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2 Jan 2003, 17:52
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#10
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Darling
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 890
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I suggest you use this. It ****ing owns.
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2 Jan 2003, 18:52
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#11
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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queball, thanks for that link.
And no matter how many get sued, or how many filesharing networks get take off, two weeks later 10 more has pooped up, better protecked than the last.
Its impossible to stop, short off turning off the net.
__________________
"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
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2 Jan 2003, 19:27
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 4,911
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
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it's called data.
__________________
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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2 Jan 2003, 19:32
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#13
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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I prefer the kazaa gui tho :/
__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
R7: Fury
----------retired-------
R52-R55: Apprime
R56-R57: FaceLess
R58-60: Apprime/Ultores
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2 Jan 2003, 19:39
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#14
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Gubbish
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: #FoW
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
...short off turning off the net.
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I'm waiting for it.
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Gubble gubble gubble gubble
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2 Jan 2003, 19:49
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#15
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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Quote:
Originally posted by W
I'm waiting for it.
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Then its back to the ol' racking.
This is so much easier.
__________________
"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
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2 Jan 2003, 20:17
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#16
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Vermin Supreme
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
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kazaa has sucked forever anyway.
and people have been copywriting numbers forever; it's the same as copyrighting letters really, which is basically everything that copyrighting is:/
anyhoo the tossers who were using the computer in the lab to download porn (who downloads so much porn that you can no longer copy small text files to oyur desktop?) used 'bearshare' which sounds pretty gay but apparently has plenty of porn, significantly porn that was not on the morpheus and kazaa loop. or so i'm told.
the real problem is not the lawyers though, it is simply that running one of those p2p networks costs a lot and has no income, so they would be going out of business anyway.
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2 Jan 2003, 20:21
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#17
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Retard
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 272
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i need some new pr0n anehway
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2 Jan 2003, 20:24
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#18
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Darling
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 890
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Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
the real problem is not the lawyers though, it is simply that running one of those p2p networks costs a lot and has no income, so they would be going out of business anyway.
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apart from when you get paid by the bucketload to have computer killing spyware piggyback onto your software.
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2 Jan 2003, 21:47
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#19
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Käptn Karacho
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,360
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i wonder what a us court can do to a company located in the Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu
__________________
at0mic.c0w - #strategy
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2 Jan 2003, 22:20
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#20
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Super Trooper
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 145
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
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ace...
__________________
What's so funny?
I thought you where saying meow
do I look like a cat to you boy?
am I jump all nimbly bimly from tree to tree?am I drinking milk from a saucer?
Do you see me eating mice?
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2 Jan 2003, 22:54
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#21
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Child Eating Zombie Clown
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,450
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www.imesh.com
's what I use.
Only problem is that even if you say not to share files, it still shares your download directory. You have to watch it closely if you have bandwidth limits.
__________________
Mirai - An Astral Being From Outer Space
Die You Bitch Minister of Insanity - "Timete Nostrum Piscem Furoris"
My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever, we begin bombing in 5 minutes - President Ronald Reagan, in a radio check where he did not realize the microphone was on and the station broadcasting
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2 Jan 2003, 23:53
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#22
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Moody
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ithaka
Posts: 118
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The best place to get music today is from private FTPs.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
How long will it take for some high priced lawyer to point out you can't copyright numbers, and that all this "music" is in fact just a selection of 0's and 1's that just happen to sound similar to popular music?
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God, that is a bad argument. Companies shouldn't be allowed to copyright drugs, their made from atoms!!!
Seriously though, copyright is one of the main reasons for today's greedy soceity. People now create for profit over enjoyment. It allows products to be sold at artificaly high prices, placing them above the reach of some social brackets.
Basicaly copyright is a prime cause of scarcity which the whole the system of economics is based on. Without it this world would be completely different.
BTW Does anyone have pics from the RIAA hack the other day?
__________________
Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.
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3 Jan 2003, 00:00
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,944
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erkenbrand
The best place to get music today is from private FTPs.
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yeah but they're not easy to find, especially when you're on a 56k modem
hint hint pm hint ;p
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3 Jan 2003, 00:15
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#24
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Moody
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ithaka
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarak
yeah but they're not easy to find, especially when you're on a 56k modem
hint hint pm hint ;p
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Not to twist your arm, but, get me RIAA hack pics and I'll get you an ftp
(Or if someone else just posts them)
__________________
Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.
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3 Jan 2003, 00:40
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#25
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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I need a PM.
__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
R7: Fury
----------retired-------
R52-R55: Apprime
R56-R57: FaceLess
R58-60: Apprime/Ultores
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3 Jan 2003, 00:49
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#26
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I AM OSCAR WILDE
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 364
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me <3 SADCHUB
__________________
[The Illuminati] [ LeetLiekJeffK!!111]
[Naked Oral Sex] | Self Exile Count in Round 11: 12
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3 Jan 2003, 00:59
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,944
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the one from a while ago where they altered the front page to say filesharing is good and offered links to download some songs?
or has there been another more recent hack?
i have pics of the old one but my computer just died and can't get anything from it atm
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3 Jan 2003, 01:15
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#29
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Moody
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ithaka
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
The latest one was 30th Dec 2002 and posted on the imitable slashdot.
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Cheers, thats the one. After finding out that a ****** is on it I'm not particularly anxious to see.
Quote:
Originally posted by Auro
me <3 SADCHUB
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You have to register with goons for that hub, which is something I won't be doing.
This talk of SA reminds of the catchphrase 'Huge like an Xbox'. Even now it makes me laugh.
__________________
Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.
Last edited by Erkenbrand; 3 Jan 2003 at 01:23.
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3 Jan 2003, 01:25
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#30
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Shai Halud
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sunny Leeds \o/
Posts: 2,127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erkenbrand
God, that is a bad argument. Companies shouldn't be allowed to copyright drugs, their made from atoms!!!
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You don't copyright a drug, you patent it. Completely different laws with completely different approaches, protecting completely different things.
Quote:
Seriously though, copyright is one of the main reasons for today's greedy soceity. People now create for profit over enjoyment. It allows products to be sold at artificaly high prices, placing them above the reach of some social brackets.
Basicaly copyright is a prime cause of scarcity which the whole the system of economics is based on. Without it this world would be completely different.
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I have to say I disagree with this. Can you imagine what media and the arts would be like without copyright? We would be awash in a sea of crap clones and shoddy knock-offs without any way of navigating.
The fact that copyright gives publishers and distributers as much legal right to material as the author is a huge bonus for companies and a pain in the arse for people like you and me - however this does not invalidate the sentiment behind copyright law, which is designed to protect original intellectual works.
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3 Jan 2003, 01:49
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#31
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Moody
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ithaka
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
You don't copyright a drug, you patent it. Completely different laws with completely different approaches, protecting completely different things.
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[PATENT]
A grant made by a government that confers upon the creator of an invention the sole right to make, use, and sell that invention for a set period of time.
[COPYRIGHT]
The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work.
In both cases a monopoly exists for the holder of the grant.
Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
I have to say I disagree with this. Can you imagine what media and the arts would be like without copyright? We would be awash in a sea of crap clones and shoddy knock-offs without any way of navigating.
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As I said this is the thinking behind copyright, people will not create anything worthwhile if there is no profit involved for them. Granted if copyright was abolished today we could well be awash in 'a sea of crap'. However, I am arguing that if copyright had never been introduced the profit above all else mentality would not be as prominent, leading to creation as a form of expression rather than a means to aquire wealth.
Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
The fact that copyright gives publishers and distributers as much legal right to material as the author is a huge bonus for companies and a pain in the arse for people like you and me - however this does not invalidate the sentiment behind copyright law, which is designed to protect original intellectual works.
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Oh, the sentiment behind copyright is indeed a righteous one, however the branches and offshoots of that sentiment have been twisted out of all proportion.
__________________
Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.
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3 Jan 2003, 02:06
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#32
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Gubbish
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: #FoW
Posts: 2,323
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I made the music, I own it, I'm the one that desides when and how you get to use it. Now instantly delete every pieces of music by me, even if you bought it. Buying my music in no way makes you the owner. Alright then, keep the cd's and stuff, you just aren't allowed to reproduce the music in the form of sound waves any longer.
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Gubble gubble gubble gubble
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3 Jan 2003, 02:08
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#33
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Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: An intricate fantasy world.
Posts: 166
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I'm glad. Then the bulk of the people will move off that spyware infested crufty piece of **** and use some openly specced one instead!
down with kazaa.
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3 Jan 2003, 02:15
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#34
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Guest
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isn't imesh jam packed full of every type of spyware imaginable??
the only thing i download off the net is music, so i just use WinMX, i'm not a fussy person.
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3 Jan 2003, 02:15
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#35
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Guest
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isn't imesh jam packed full of every type of spyware imaginable??
the only thing i download off the net is music, so i just use WinMX, i'm not a fussy person.:S
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3 Jan 2003, 03:54
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#36
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Insomniac
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: over there
Posts: 110
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DC++ all the way. fs ... let KAzaa burn
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[Ministry] HC - retired
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