Accepting powerblocks and still keeping the round fun

[rnd|One]

Originally posted by Zh|l
..., and ViruS is a top alliance nowadays - both are battle hardened, wheres Elysium/Wolfpack arent as used to war as VoM are.

Quality Friday night blooper. Makes you wish you'd stayed retired, no?

[Sirad]

good night, O and Zhil as a member of 'VOM' I would have loved haveing wars with WEE, and maybee with a NAR and a STH or such i dont dictate whom other alliances ally with I leave that up to there command.

SWEET c I Think is a little over the top but, I dont dictate others policys.
side note, sleep well and I dont think your allies are less prepared then you do.

intersting quote for Disc

<zander> this is amazing
<zander> the hc tell us to be active and they aint even here


just helping a friend out disc

[cbk100]

Originally posted by Bashar
I read the whole post, and I am impressed with the sheer length. I thought there were some good points in there too, and it was well thought-out, though I don't agree with some bits of it.

I am not gonna refer to specific bits that I disagree with, cos t would take an eternity to find the quotes, so simply pu:

Powerblocks come about not because they are inevitable, but because most the HC's of most current major alliances are a bunch of pansies who can't stand the thought of standing alone. They like to hide behind a block just so they have an excuse when they themselves underperform (my controversial view).

If these HC asked their alliance members what they thought of blocking, I reckon 90%+ would say "WE WOULD RATHER STAND ALONE"

If they would just grow some guts, powerblocks may come to an end - however, I can't see them growing anything, other than the carefully coloured yellow streak they have.

The whole point of powerblocking is trying to outsize your enemy, and give you the biggest advantage over them that you can get before the round starts.

Dishonourable and cowardly in my opinion.

Anyway, I will now sit back, and await the flames from aforementioned HC's

Yeah you might be right that a lot in all alliances want to stay on their own, but will they keep that oppinion when they get bashed night after night after night after night after night???

I think that is a bit naive to think and if I'm to mention an example then take a look at NoS r8.

The HCs do what they think is the best for the alliance and if other alliances powerblock then the best for them is to powerblock too and even try to make a bigger force, and then if posible the other powerblock will try to make a even bigger block....do you see the bad circle?

There is not much we can do about this powerblocking thing. All we can do is to make sure that when a block is made an opposing block of about the same size is made too.

cbk
/moo

[cbk100]

Originally posted by THE GREAT ONE
hehe the prob with this is.... he top xeta and fos gals were pulled down...to be replaced only by more top fos gals. My friends gal and ex sister gal ended up rank 5 with only 5 active players and still were above anything furgion had and i think anything xeta had also.

fair enuf, maybe that still made furgion enjoy the round, killing and not winning was the furby way after all.

but i disagree that they were both good fights..

first half was total dominance from fos+xeta, which doesn't constitue a good fight....though furgion didn't give up as much as nocex previous round, so credit for fighting on atleast.

2nd half most xetas either jumped ship or gave up, which left us with a small core.....who fought hard but at the end of the day, it still aint a good fight, we were dominated by the opposition.

As far as I recall it was actualy not many of the top FOS and Xeta gals that was taken down in the beginning as you say. I would rather say that only a few was taken down.
And well, Xeta had top gals untill only a very short time b4 the end. Part of it because there was a fence-sitting gal and part of it because they had a gal they centered about all def around.....damn it was hard to get roids from that stupit 4:5 gal, but it succeeded :-) just like it succeeded to hit that fence-sitting gal VERY hard even though they had def from both friends and enemies... great times!!!!!!

Maybe I enjoyed that round so much because my gal was big and on the winning side, but actualy the days I liked the most was the days just after FOS and Xeta broke up where my gal had waves about every day for over a week.

And then: Necro: "The reason we have not been hitting XeTa top 10 gals is because they have none ".

HEHE!!!! as far as I know the top 1 planet and gal was Xeta (Storebo/Adelante) and I think my gal was there too and also one of our Xeta sister gals.

cbk

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by rnd|One
Quality Friday night blooper. Makes you wish you'd stayed retired, no?

Not really, I didnt mean it in an offensive manner. Elysium/Wolfpack havent really been pressured for a couple of rounds - which is a long time in PA affairs (especially since alliances are changing so much)

The Elysium of r4/r5 is different from the Elysium for r9 - I think you agree there yes?

ViruS and Titans have been a war since their conceptions - they are battle hardened. Olympions may be new, but their members are quite used to war. The only alliance that isnt is MadCows. (Within the VOM block)

[Teh_Necro]

Originally posted by Zh|l
You are being rather thick here Necro.

VoM have made no real efforts to seperate alliances within their block. If nothing was done VoM would roll over the universe - you have to remember Oly consists of many of the remaining top players within the game, and ViruS is a top alliance nowadays - both are battle hardened, wheres Elysium/Wolfpack arent as used to war as VoM are. Unless you are implying something different than WEE shouldnt have been set up in response - because if you its terribly niave and would have resulted in a highly boring round. If you however imply that WEE is 'bigger' then try not to think numbers mean as much as you think - they have to be really massive and coordinated to some degree to work (Like the entire of the FoS block for example working with Xeta - Furgion was overwhelmed at that point). Nothing of the sort has happened so far.

Zhil what i meant is that WEE should make an effort so that if or when VoM loses then it can comfortably have an open confrontation with the remaining alliances without too much confusion. However this is not the case, as many WEE gals have NoS/Auld/RaH members.

This means that if VoM loses (which i personally think they will) then WEE will be left with lots of shared galaxies and no targets, so they'll create them, retals breaking of agreements, whatever. But we'll have an incredibly boring round.

[RooKie]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Then I don't see you as having any point - your actions deny your words. Hypocrisy.

Most alliances would have stuck to one ally, perhaps two in the case of the smaller and weaker alliances. To ally an established and old alliance, an alliance that contains a large percentage of the "winners" of last round, and a filler alliance into one group is what has forced other alliances to form against you.

Deny all you want. Omega intelligence is far more effective than you can possibly comprehend.

You got your opinion. I dont agree with you.

1. We had alternatives that we considered equal in strength, not including Olympians and ViruS.

2. The current view on cows/olympians/virus is far fetched imo. Olympians is sure much of the old Titans and is prolly the strongest force in our group. But they were the top alliance for one round.

ViruS still has some to prove and the cows much more so. To claim that we are unbeatable for another triad is just not realistic.

With these combos, we would have 4 equal groups imo:

1. Eclipse/Elysium/ToT
2. RaH/NoS/WP
3. Auld/Sapienta/Vision

Use FAnG, HD, Templar, hirr, TFD, Ministry, Violent Death to strengthen group 2 and 3 and we could have had 4 group scenario. Even more groups maybe.

[ComradeRob]

Originally posted by RooKie
With these combos, we would have 4 equal groups imo:

1. Eclipse/Elysium/ToT
2. RaH/NoS/WP
3. Auld/Sapienta/Vision

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
This means that if VoM loses (which i personally think they will) then WEE will be left with lots of shared galaxies and no targets, so they'll create them, retals breaking of agreements, whatever. But we'll have an incredibly boring round.

Personally I do not think it likely that we will run out of targets. I certainly don't want to see a situation where there are no valid targets remaining, and neither does anyone else tbh. If anyone is planning on fighting for a few weeks then sitting on their roids for the rest of the round, they may be in for a nasty shock

Fence-sitting will not be tolerated, Eclipse galaxy rules are quite firm in stating that it will not be allowed, so I really don't see it being a problem from our perspective - though I can't speak for anyone else on the matter

[Stress]

[quote]Originally posted by RooKie
[b]You got your opinion. I dont agree with you.



With these combos, we would have 4 equal groups imo:

1. Eclipse/Elysium/ToT
2. RaH/NoS/WP
3. Auld/Sapienta/Vision

Im sure those coalitions would have suied you better. now please do post somthing that is belivable

[RooKie]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Can I have some of what you are smoking?

Lucky strike m8. I got some for you

[Cochese]

Originally posted by Zh|l
The only alliance that isnt is MadCows. (Within the VOM block)

A few of us who have been with the Cows since the beginning are quite battle hardened

Point taken nonetheless.

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Originally posted by RooKie

ViruS still has some to prove and the cows much more so. To claim that we are unbeatable for another triad is just not realistic.

I've never claimed that your powerblock is UBERpowered. My point of view is that it's OVERpowered. Get it straight. An example of the former would be FLVTVTRFKRHGAWBVBKL vs. NEWX in R7. And an example of the latter would be WTF/VE in R5. The R7 block had no possible way of losing, really. The R5 block was overpowered, but if NoCeX had performed at their peak, it would have been a much more even fight. There's some explanation for you.

In the current power vacuum left by the absence of Fury, Legion, and Xanadu, that places alliances such as Virus on top, simply due to their history. Olympians has a great deal of raw skill AND motivation due to last round. Those two alliances together are a very potent force.

Add in the Cows. Now you've got another decently sized group of people who will mainly exist as filler. Like it or not, that's what you are. You're fairly untested, and you're new to the game as a standalone alliance. Your block will be led by Virus and Oly, who have worked together before (at least in part, as Oly has a strong Titans contingent). You've simply given them the ability to spread their people out more.

In effect, you've whored yourself out to them instead of standing alone or on equal footing with a similar partner. It's typical for a new alliance to do so - link up with a larger and more experienced alliance in the hopes that it'll allow you to grow, to gather respect and skill, and finally become an equal to that larger alliance.

It doesn't happen like that.

For a former Deus member, you seem to have forgotten much of what R6 showed PA.

[Sirad]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Add in the Cows. Now you've got another decently sized group of people who will mainly exist as filler. Like it or not, that's what you are. You're fairly untested, and you're new to the game as a standalone alliance. Your block will be led by Virus and Oly, who have worked together before (at least in part, as Oly has a strong Titans contingent). You've simply given them the ability to spread their people out more.

In effect, you've whored yourself out to them instead of standing alone or on equal footing with a similar partner. It's typical for a new alliance to do so - link up with a larger and more experienced alliance in the hopes that it'll allow you to grow, to gather respect and skill, and finally become an equal to that larger alliance.

It doesn't happen like that.

A) we aint filler, if at all we ever got that impression we stop seeking contact with any alliances that gave us that impression.

Madcows the alliance new to the game yes, Madcows No. What makes up the bulk of Madcows the alliance is Madcows the community Our allies worht with us and we work with them on the level of equality We've given them what they have given us respect and co-operation.

yes I'm SURE even if dues was here they wouldhave made 10 man galaxies your stand alone statement is full of holes If you think for once instance that majority of other alliances planned to go alone into this round. then explain why they were all talking about 3 party ally groups?

thanks for your opinion on our hopes and what you see as the reasons we allied with whom we choose, It's wrong but thats only because I know Madcows, and you dont.
and by such labeling us as hopeing to wore our selves out for respect and such whats eclipse doing with 2 established alliances, while we're only with 1

[Faberius]

Originally posted by RooKie




With these combos, we would have 4 equal groups imo:

1. Eclipse/Elysium/ToT
2. RaH/NoS/WP
3. Auld/Sapienta/Vision

Ah, see you are a genius sir.

I suggest to all alliances involved to voluntarily surrender any sort of egoistic pursuit of victory and ally yourself into Stress' blocks.

I'm not sure why you hate us so, placing Auld with Sap and Vision and still calling us equal to Rah/NoS/WP?

Last time Auld took that sort of deficit was in the ¶ block of round 5. Never again, please thank you.

[rnd|One]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Elysium/Wolfpack havent really been pressured for a couple of rounds - which is a long time in PA affairs (especially since alliances are changing so much)

Elysium in the past rounds: r6 XeTa, r7 NEWX, r8 WE. You mean to say XeTa or NEWX wasn't pressured? R8 pressure was directed mainly at Fury, ToT, FanG, Adelante by FairFight Co. and the results can be seen.

[ComradeRob]

Originally posted by rnd|One
Elysium in the past rounds: r6 XeTa, r7 NEWX, r8 WE. You mean to say XeTa or NEWX wasn't pressured? R8 pressure was directed mainly at Fury, ToT, FanG, Adelante by FairFight Co. and the results can be seen.

I tend to agree actually. Elysium have certainly seen plenty of wars (a seperate argument could be made of the fact that they haven't actually won very many of them, but I would attribute this more to bad luck and strong principles on Elysium's side rather than any failing as an alliance).

The perception that I think Zhil is referring to is that Ely are not seen as an alliance that throws itself headlong into the fight in the way that Fury, Titans etc. could be said to have done. Therefore Ely are perceived (by some) to be an alliance which is not as driven by the need to fight wars as, say, Fury or Titans were. I'm not sure that this is actually true though.. as you say, Ely have been involved as part of one of the major blocks in every round since r3, and have done their share of fighting during that time, especially during and after r5. But it does have to be said that most of Ely's wars were reactive rather than proactive.. Ely often seemed to be taking defensive positions rather than aggressive positions.

I don't think any of this leads to the conclusion that Ely can't/won't fight wars; they can, and I expect them to fight their wars well.

[Storebo]

Originally posted by rnd|One
Elysium in the past rounds: r6 XeTa, r7 NEWX, r8 WE. You mean to say XeTa or NEWX wasn't pressured? R8 pressure was directed mainly at Fury, ToT, FanG, Adelante by FairFight Co. and the results can be seen.

r8 elysium wasn't pressured at all.. stupidly enough they waited until it was nearly to late to step into the fighting. Their bg's was spread.. some fighted for one side and some for the others... little control.

Elysium/WP have relaxed for a round atleast...

[Ultramar]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
I've never claimed that your powerblock is UBERpowered. My point of view is that it's OVERpowered. Get it straight. An example of the former would be FLVTVTRFKRHGAWBVBKL vs. NEWX in R7. And an example of the latter would be WTF/VE in R5. The R7 block had no possible way of losing, really. The R5 block was overpowered, but if NoCeX had performed at their peak, it would have been a much more even fight. There's some explanation for you.

In the current power vacuum left by the absence of Fury, Legion, and Xanadu, that places alliances such as Virus on top, simply due to their history. Olympians has a great deal of raw skill AND motivation due to last round. Those two alliances together are a very potent force.

Add in the Cows. Now you've got another decently sized group of people who will mainly exist as filler. Like it or not, that's what you are. You're fairly untested, and you're new to the game as a standalone alliance. Your block will be led by Virus and Oly, who have worked together before (at least in part, as Oly has a strong Titans contingent). You've simply given them the ability to spread their people out more.

In effect, you've whored yourself out to them instead of standing alone or on equal footing with a similar partner. It's typical for a new alliance to do so - link up with a larger and more experienced alliance in the hopes that it'll allow you to grow, to gather respect and skill, and finally become an equal to that larger alliance.

It doesn't happen like that.

For a former Deus member, you seem to have forgotten much of what R6 showed PA.

Completely Agree

[Faberius]

Originally posted by rnd|One
Elysium in the past rounds: r6 XeTa, r7 NEWX, r8 WE. You mean to say XeTa or NEWX wasn't pressured? R8 pressure was directed mainly at Fury, ToT, FanG, Adelante by FairFight Co. and the results can be seen.

For the sake of posterity, round 8 it was WEED(Pack, Ely, ETY, ND) not WE

[Salomo]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
I've never claimed that your powerblock is UBERpowered. My point of view is that it's OVERpowered. Get it straight. An example of the former would be FLVTVTRFKRHGAWBVBKL vs. NEWX in R7. And an example of the latter would be WTF/VE in R5. The R7 block had no possible way of losing, really. The R5 block was overpowered, but if NoCeX had performed at their peak, it would have been a much more even fight. There's some explanation for you.

In the current power vacuum left by the absence of Fury, Legion, and Xanadu, that places alliances such as Virus on top, simply due to their history. Olympians has a great deal of raw skill AND motivation due to last round. Those two alliances together are a very potent force.

Add in the Cows. Now you've got another decently sized group of people who will mainly exist as filler. Like it or not, that's what you are. You're fairly untested, and you're new to the game as a standalone alliance. Your block will be led by Virus and Oly, who have worked together before (at least in part, as Oly has a strong Titans contingent). You've simply given them the ability to spread their people out more.

In effect, you've whored yourself out to them instead of standing alone or on equal footing with a similar partner. It's typical for a new alliance to do so - link up with a larger and more experienced alliance in the hopes that it'll allow you to grow, to gather respect and skill, and finally become an equal to that larger alliance.

It doesn't happen like that.

For a former Deus member, you seem to have forgotten much of what R6 showed PA.

hmmmm.... well written, logical argumentation... all in all a very good post.

Originally posted by sirad
A) we aint filler, if at all we ever got that impression we stop seeking contact with any alliances that gave us that impression.

Madcows the alliance new to the game yes, Madcows No. What makes up the bulk of Madcows the alliance is Madcows the community Our allies worht with us and we work with them on the level of equality We've given them what they have given us respect and co-operation.

yes I'm SURE even if dues was here they wouldhave made 10 man galaxies your stand alone statement is full of holes If you think for once instance that majority of other alliances planned to go alone into this round. then explain why they were all talking about 3 party ally groups?

thanks for your opinion on our hopes and what you see as the reasons we allied with whom we choose, It's wrong but thats only because I know Madcows, and you dont.
and by such labeling us as hopeing to wore our selves out for respect and such whats eclipse doing with 2 established alliances, while we're only with 1

At first glance also well written and well argued, but besides the rather mediocre introduction, at second glance your arguments fail:

You argue that you are in the block as equals. While that is possible i have my doubts in that as albys arguments were quite convincing. On the other hand, and you failed to argue that, Trin is madcows HC if i read the boards correctly. IIRC Trin was in Titans or at least should know ex-titans people, possibly helping madcows/oly relations. It would hence theoretically be possible that not madcows but Virus is the least dominant alliance in the block if madcows performs well militarily.

Your Deus argument is very interesting. You create initial aproval with your well designed counter-alusion to Deus there, and nicely pick Albys low kick up against him. However, the essential message of your post, that deus would have done the same, is wrong. Deus would have probably gotten 1-3 smaller alliances (amount depends on how small they are) to cooperate with and share galaxies with, and not joined with two other comparatively dominant alliances. Or it would have waited untill someone else blocks and then built its own block. ('lo eclipse).
An even better reply to his accusation might have been to recriminalise by reminding that his goal for deus simply was to win the round and didn't really care about all the stagnation propaganda stuff he allways posted. This would have put the pressure back at him, and at the same time possibly picked up a distracting side discussion to avoid him simply throwing the ball back at you.

Your Concluding Paragraph is very good! It makes up for a lot of the previous mistakes by politely arguing that his arguments are invalid anyway as he has know clue about the stuff anyway. Hard to oppose, this argument gives you full score for the conclusion. The poor introduction of course evens that out a bit.

------------------------------------------

In clonclusion I would grant Alby the victory in this round of propaganda death match. Alby 1 -RooKie 0. We'll be right back with the next round after this short comercial break.

[Sirad]

Salomo. nice opinion prehaps i would have wrote it better f i was sober who knows.

however you dont know the nature of our relationship with Oly+Virus also you were not present at any of our meetings/and talks. also your not reviewing the interaction we have with Virus or Oly. but its nice to treat and be treated as equals as the case has been for all parties.

i'm not so much intersted in Political entrapment of anyone on AD thou, I just took offence to his commentary on my alliance.

-slightly still hungover sirad

[RooKie]

you have been hungover for days now...