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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:22   #51
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I think the reason it pisses most people off is that the Americans already believe that they single handedly won the war and that without them we would all be speaking German. Movies like this only inflate their insane egos even more (gonna be a BIG mess when it finally bursts )
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:31   #52
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Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
When did I even allude to banning anything?

All I've talked about so far is people excercising discretion and acting responsibly with regards to their output. Not a terrible amount to ask.
So who decides what's discrete and responsible? What happens when people don't exercise discretion, or disagree about what's discrete and responsbile and issue their fiction anyway?
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:34   #53
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Originally posted by Tactitus
So who decides what's discrete and responsible?
Errr, the people who are producing the material.

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Originally posted by Tactitus
What happens when people don't exercise discretion, or disagree about what's discrete and responsbile and issue their fiction anyway?
So be it. Responsiblity can only derive from personal assesment of one's actions, and a willingness to do what is moral.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 16 Sep 2003 at 19:50.
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:36   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
No-ones trying to take anything away from him, what people (or I at least) object to is this film is more than likely going to add alot to Fisk and the few other Americans and take away from the thousands of British, Commonwealth, Polish, Czech and other nationalities that fought and died for this country as well.
Yeah maybe they should make a film that focuses on every person who fought in world war 2. That would be a much better idea.
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:38   #55
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Originally posted by huh
Yeah maybe they should make a film that focuses on every person who fought in world war 2. That would be a much better idea.
I think you sort of missed the point.
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:43   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
I think you sort of missed the point.
if you would make a movie for the british market, would you focus on american, Commonwealth, Polish, Czech and other nationalities pilots?
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:52   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
if you would make a movie for the british market, would you focus on american, Commonwealth, Polish, Czech and other nationalities pilots?
I'm not asking them to 'focus' on British, Commonwealth etc forces. I'm asking them not to make up a bunch of utter twoddle about Americans winning the Battle of Britain near single-handedly and then pass it off as 'based on real events'.

EDIT: And incidently no I wouldn't, but I wouldn't make a movie about the Pacific Island campaigns and then try to pass it of as a British success.
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:57   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
I'm not asking them to 'focus' on British, Commonwealth etc forces. I'm asking them not to make up a bunch of utter twoddle about Americans winning the Battle of Britain near single-handedly and then pass it off as 'based on real events'
but reality wouldnt sell. they like beeing heros and saaving the world.
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 19:59   #59
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if only i had the money, the directing skills and the backing, i'd make a film on how the usa ****ed up vietnam

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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 20:01   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zar
if only i had the money, the directing skills and the backing, i'd make a film on how the usa ****ed up vietnam

Zar
that has been done a few times, hasnt it?
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 20:04   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
that has been done a few times, hasnt it?
not "hollywood" style.

All movies on vietnam would either be on how the usa was a good thing to happen to vietnam (and saving the world etc..)

any negative movies in light to the usa, won't have sold very well.

what we need is a mass "hollywood" style movie (americans believe hollywood is God's new son - the gospel truth (until Jesus shows up)), with millions of $'s poured in, graphics, special effects...the lot - showing how the usa ****ed everything up

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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 20:13   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zar
All movies on vietnam would either be on how the usa was a good thing to happen to vietnam (and saving the world etc..)
I think Apocalypse Now showed Americans as a pretty negative influence in Vietnam. Also Full Metal Jacket, and Platoon. And that film with Michael J Fox that I can't remember the name of.
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 20:46   #63
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maybe a movie from the perspective of the NVA, where the audience cheers everytime a nasty yanky dies.

anyways its an american movie for primarily an american audience just sit back and laugh.


and besides if its anything like topgun it'll be


picture the scene RAF washroom, all pilots naked apart from a crisp white towel around their waste.

'i say charlie old chap...your bottom looks ever so pert there'

'well tally ho old chap, by gum if it isnt in need of a buggering'




or

'kraut on my tail, I HAVE A KRAUT ON MY TAIL....AND HES ENGAGING'

or

'poor old tommy, he was shot twice in the face by charlie, then twice in the face by jerry'
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Unread 16 Sep 2003, 23:12   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
I think Apocalypse Now showed Americans as a pretty negative influence in Vietnam. Also Full Metal Jacket, and Platoon. And that film with Michael J Fox that I can't remember the name of.
------------------------

I would prefer a film where the Vietnamese were the heroes. They would be the main actors. Their deaths would be horrible, and the yanks would be just as impersonal as all Viet Cong fighters in ALL US Vietnam films. Now that would be a film showing it from the other side.

It would be a hell of a lot worse to see the war from that point of view, than it ever was to see any Vietnam movie like Platoon or Full Metal Jacket. These films focus on how hard it is to be a soldier. Not on the crime it is to occupy somebody else's country, and kill off millions of people. Don't forget that US-losses in Vietnam were somewhere a bit over 50.000 (?) while the Viets lost millions, at least if civilians are included. Talk about hellish duty for your country. Could be a great film.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 00:11   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kåre Willoch
Not on the crime it is to occupy somebody else's country, and kill off millions of people.

Dude wtf, that sux :(
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 00:22   #66
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If they do this the way they did U571 I swear to God I'm becoming a ****ing terrorist.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 01:18   #67
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From another forum (yes this is pissing people off in several places)

"2945 Airmen fought in the Battle of Britain, the operation to prevent German airforce gaining the air superiorty over England that they needed to carry out an invasion.
2365 were British
141 Polish
103 New Zealanders
90 Canadians
86 Czechs
12 American

The pilot mentioned as the central character, Billy Fiske, flew 42 sortes and had several 'possible' kills but no confirmed. He died after an accident landing a damaged aircraft.

So I'll wait and see how this movie comes out. I suspect that like U571 (Enigma code machine captured by American sub rather than a British ship as actually happened), Saving Private Ryan (No mention or shots of British or Canadian troops in the landings), Memphis Belle (script written about British Lancaster bomber but changed to USAF plane on orders of American backers) or Enigma (producers told by American backers to change the hero to American or they wont invest, so producers refused and got money from........ German investors!) it will be fictionalised greatly.

We have to remember that movies are made to make money, and for US studios the US market is what matters, so they want American centeral characters.
However many people see "Based on a true story" and believe everything in it as fact.

The sad thing is that Billy Fiske's story is one worth telling, and for bravery and courage in willingly joining the battle I am not worthy to shine his shoes! Instead he looks like getting a fictional account that will take away from his true sacrifice and millions of people will get a distorted version of what really happend. "
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 03:05   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
If they do this the way they did U571 I swear to God I'm becoming a ****ing terrorist.
better not. because then u'll get killed , and we'll make a pro american movie about killing you. :-)
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 07:34   #69
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Originally posted by NibNub
So I'll wait and see how this movie comes out. I suspect that like U571 (Enigma code machine captured by American sub rather than a British ship as actually happened), Saving Private Ryan (No mention or shots of British or Canadian troops in the landings), Memphis Belle (script written about British Lancaster bomber but changed to USAF plane on orders of American backers) or Enigma (producers told by American backers to change the hero to American or they wont invest, so producers refused and got money from........ German investors!) it will be fictionalised greatly.
I think criticism of U571 is justified on the basis of playing fast and loose with important historical facts, but not the others you mention.

Saving Private Ryan is the story of an American Ranger unit sent to rescue an American paratrooper in an American sector. The rescue mission, very loosely based on the story of an American paratrooper named Fritz Niland, has no particular historical significance (unlike U571). Sending a multinational force or having the Rangers meet up with various British, Canadian, and Free French forces would not have increased it's historical correctness (though perhaps it would have increased it's political correctness). The movie itself isn't that good, apart from the first 20 minutes or so.

Memphis Belle is a remake of a WWII documentary. It contains a number of embellishments but, again, doesn't pretend to represent any significant historical event(s). It might not be the story that the producer originally wanted to make, but it's a reasonable story in its own right. Now if only it had a plot... :/

I don't know much about Enigma, but if the producers refused to change the story just to get financing then that undermines your point a bit, no?
Quote:
We have to remember that movies are made to make money, and for US studios the US market is what matters, so they want American centeral characters.
However many people see "Based on a true story" and believe everything in it as fact.
That's a curious statement. I've certainly never interpreted "Based on a true story" that way. I mean, "based on" is a tacit admission that part of it isn't true, correct? Otherwise, they'd just say, "This is a true story."
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 08:35   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by NibNub
German investors!
on a sidenote: these investors only invested in movies to save taxes, not because they actually cared about producing movies or even want to earn money with them. they probably invested in that tom cruise movie aswell. (heres some link if anyone cares: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3142325.stm )
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 11:38   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by NibNub
The sad thing is that Billy Fiske's story is one worth telling, and for bravery and courage in willingly joining the battle I am not worthy to shine his shoes! Instead he looks like getting a fictional account that will take away from his true sacrifice and millions of people will get a distorted version of what really happend. "
Beat me to it. This is one of those cases where the truth would make a much more moving film than the fake reality I believe will eventually appear on our screens.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 12:09   #72
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EDIT: And incidently no I wouldn't, but I wouldn't make a movie about the Pacific Island campaigns and then try to pass it of as a British success.
We should make a whole series of movies like that, just to show the Americans how it feels to have their history meddled with for the entertainment of the masses.

As for this movie, I shall protest by dressing as Biggles and standing outside my local cinema holding a sign decrying the Yanqui Propaganda Machine that is Hollywood.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 12:55   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
I think Apocalypse Now showed Americans as a pretty negative influence in Vietnam. Also Full Metal Jacket, and Platoon. And that film with Michael J Fox that I can't remember the name of.
Back to the Future



On another note, I am just as annoyed about this as the rest of you chappies, but I bet you'll all go and see it all the same.
And it will make the evening even more enjoyable when, on the way home, you can criticise it, and then move onto America, and criticise America, and then have a good evening thinking how egocentric the nation is. It is like bonus-fun that comes with the film, being able to bitch about it afterwards with your friends.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 13:04   #74
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but I bet you'll all go and see it all the same
I know I won't! (I haven't been the the cinema in, well, years)
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 13:57   #75
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I know I won't! (I haven't been the the cinema in, well, years)
Ditto.


Might get a Divx copy for laughs though
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:24   #76
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Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
You didn't recognise anything. Nothing that was actually relevant, etc.
Your way of pointing out facts really promotes alot of fiction. You remind me alot of a this thread. Irrelevant, stupid and running for a dead end.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:26   #77
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(I haven't been the the cinema in, well, years)

I bet you were banned.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:29   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynical Oracle
Your way of pointing out facts really promotes alot of fiction. You remind me alot of a this thread. Irrelevant, stupid and running for a dead end.
The usual nonsense from Mr Nonsense.

He comes in, spouts off a few ill-judged pieces of barely-relevant garbage, is caught totally wrong-footed, and then has to resort to pointless personal insults.


Tell me, if you're so brilliant, then why do you never make any decent effort to take me up on my points?

Oh yes, because you're incapable of doing so.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:40   #79
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Originally posted by Tactitus
That's a curious statement. I've certainly never interpreted "Based on a true story" that way. I mean, "based on" is a tacit admission that part of it isn't true, correct? Otherwise, they'd just say, "This is a true story."
There are a lot of nieve people around, I myself have met some people recently that believe wrestling is real. Not wanting to become a rascist, but the overall impression given by the American people is that there are some impressionable enough to believe that what they see or read in a 'based on a true story' work of fiction is true.

As a prime example, look at Fargo. It proclaimed to be 'based on a true story' and everyone assumed such a thing, but when the Coen brothers were questioned on it recently, as the reporter found no such events had occured, they confessed that it was entirely made up and they just tagged that on the front. I believed it to be half true when it was in fact completly false. Even the best of us can be fooled.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:47   #80
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Originally posted by guest
As a prime example, look at Fargo. It proclaimed to be 'based on a true story' and everyone assumed such a thing, but when the Coen brothers were questioned on it recently, as the reporter found no such events had occured, they confessed that it was entirely made up and they just tagged that on the front. I believed it to be half true when it was in fact completly false. Even the best of us can be fooled.
Or in this case, the worst of us! Ha!hahahaha!!

Ehem..
Apparently Gone With the Wind also says it's based on a true story and it isn't, the director just felt like saying it was. There should be a law against that sort of thing.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:48   #81
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Originally posted by ChubbyChecker

Apparently Gone With the Wind also says it's based on a true story and it isn't, the director just felt like saying it was. There should be a law against that sort of thing.
Lying in films?
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:51   #82
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Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Lying in films?
Yes, who would have thought it occurs, under our very noses too..

And if you're saying the story you're telling is based on fact and it isn't that's just false advertising, which is banned on TV and radio, and should be banned in movies too.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:52   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
Or in this case, the worst of us! Ha!hahahaha!!

Ehem..
Apparently Gone With the Wind also says it's based on a true story and it isn't, the director just felt like saying it was. There should be a law against that sort of thing.
I find your snipe depressing, an uncalled for outburst for absolutly no reason what so ever that is pure conjecture.

But yes, some rules or general guidelines need to be created, for instance, for all I know the only true part of Black Hawk Down was that a helicopter crashed in Mogadishu. The part about the coffee making typist could have been completly fabricated to appearl to office personel.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:55   #84
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Originally posted by guest
I find your snipe depressing, an uncalled for outburst for absolutly no reason what so ever that is pure conjecture.
People can be so cruel.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 15:56   #85
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Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
People can be so cruel.
Thanks, you ugly piece of ****!
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:03   #86
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Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
People can be so cruel.
That isn't an excuse, there are a lot of kind people in this world too, such as the WWF and PETA.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:06   #87
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That isn't an excuse, there are a lot of kind people in this world too, such as the WWF and PETA.
Yes, but without the few brave pioneers showing us the cruelty in people we wouldn't be able to appreciate the kindness in others.
You should thank me really.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:07   #88
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Actually, there are MANY movies, made in the United States, that show the US in a bad light in military/ political terms. Someone alredy pointed ut the Vietnam epics, all of which go out of their way to demonstrate the futility of fighting that war. Three Kings does a good job of showing the absurdity of the US government actions in Iraq.

However, world war II has always been seen as the great crusade by the US. It is the event which propelles US from first among equals to superpower status, it is the last war in which there could be no confusion about who was the good guy, and who was the bad guy.

Thus, the Second World war has not been the subject of any Hollywood movies negative to the US, and when the US is insulted, it is only tangentially, such as in Patton, or Kelly's heroes. (Classic movie, by the way)

Lastly, I should point out one thing: Though I am in no way defending the ahistorical approach to movies taken by Hollywood recently (pisses me off morethan most) I should point out that in the era of 1930-1950, when most movies were still being made in the UK, it was very hard to find a movie that was anything except ultra-pro Britain: up, up Empire, and so on.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:15   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
The usual nonsense from Mr Nonsense.

He comes in, spouts off a few ill-judged pieces of barely-relevant garbage, is caught totally wrong-footed, and then has to resort to pointless personal insults.


Tell me, if you're so brilliant, then why do you never make any decent effort to take me up on my points?

Oh yes, because you're incapable of doing so.
I hope you are aware that when it comes to illphrased personal insults, you not only reached, but are, rock bottom.

I can bring several posts of yours forward as fact of the matter, but it would only end in a closed thread, in worst case, I would be banned as you have The establishment behind you.

Your point is, you have no point. You argue for the sake of argumentation. Altho it can be fun, your way of making people think you are 'ard not only disgusts me, but should disgust others.

Welcome to the real world.
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Quote:
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I wish we could trademark for a less shitty poster
hahahahahahaha, get it?
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:22   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynical Oracle
Welcome to the real world.
100% fatuous drivel, as usual. Come back when you have attained some level of mediocrity, and you might be in some way entertaining. At the moment you're just a persistent nuisance.

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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:28   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynical Oracle
I can bring several posts of yours forward as fact of the matter, but it would only end in a closed thread, in worst case, I would be banned as you have The establishment behind you.
Another Fine Product of the Nonsense Factory.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:35   #92
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Another Fine Product of the Nonsense Factory.
In one ear and out the other?

Or just Meat****er?
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:37   #93
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I like the idea that I have some sort of 'establishment weighting', when clearly you people regard me as nothing much more than a sort of strange, mildly brain-damaged curiosity.

Heh.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:41   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
In one ear and out the other?

Or just Meat****er?

I was quoting ship names at you long before you started.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:42   #95
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You actually dare to say that MM posts constructive posts? Get the funk of my internet.
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I wish we could trademark for a less shitty poster
hahahahahahaha, get it?
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:44   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynical Oracle
You actually dare to say that MM posts constructive posts? Get the funk of my internet.
Another Fine Product of the Nonsense Factory.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:46   #97
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I think several people in this thread need to 'get a grip'.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:47   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I was quoting ship names at you long before you started.
I remember back in the summer of, ooh, must have been 1998, might even have been earlier; I think it was back then, because Roger still hadn't split his room into two parts (previously, it had been a longish room with a bed, shelves and a sofabed thing in the middle, with the insertion of a wall, it became two tiny spaces, one with a bed, the other with a table and a pc); actually, it must have been later than that, because the pc he has is a p3 800, and I don't think they were in the realm of the common man that early in time.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:50   #99
JonnyBGood
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JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by guest
I think several people in this thread need to 'get a grip'.
I think you're right.
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Unread 17 Sep 2003, 16:53   #100
MrL_JaKiri
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MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I think you're right.
Don't you like my ramble?
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