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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 10:30   #1
Kargool
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New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Okay, this might be known to many players but I wanted to point out a fun thing with the new production system.

It actually makes it easy to save resources from evil cov-ops and all together lower your value.

How?

By quite easy put alot of ships in production, only use one factory, and add to the order all the time, that way the ships never gets done and your value is lowered and ships are not visible if you want to build your own defence.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 10:31   #2
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Oooooooold news.

P.S. You need to spend about 2560000 of each a tick for this to work near-indefinitely (for 1000 ticks).
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 12:31   #3
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Prevent stockpiling by creating an upper limit. In my opinion this limit should be around 5 000 000 of each resource, and if you get to that amount your mines simply stop working until you've spent resources.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 12:53   #4
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Prevent stockpiling by creating an upper limit. In my opinion this limit should be around 5 000 000 of each resource, and if you get to that amount your mines simply stop working until you've spent resources.
So it's ok for small planets to stockpile against each other, but not big ones? I don't get it.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:14   #5
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Good point. A better solution would probably be that you can only stockpile 24 ticks worth of resources. After that you won't gain anything until you've spent resources. Better?

Not sure about the calculation of that though. I mean, what if the planet gets roided in between?
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:25   #6
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Why keep limiting tactics? I don't understand that at all.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:28   #7
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Because I'd rather see resources spent on ships so that the targets value can actually be removed. I also hate seeing people having stockpiled a large amount of resources just to build the ships right before round end to get a high score.

Sure, it's a tactic, but it's a damn shitty one.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:29   #8
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

stockpiling is a valid tactic that encourages activity, i really can't see why you'd want to limit it. And your suggestion about limiting the amount of res stockpiled Nadar would make no difference in the new system, as the res has been spent and can be kept indefinetly in production , which is what kargool is talking about.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:34   #9
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Because I'd rather see resources spent on ships so that the targets value can actually be removed. I also hate seeing people having stockpiled a large amount of resources just to build the ships right before round end to get a high score.
Maybe, but there are ingame mechanisms through which you can still hurt the opponent. If no-one attacks the person to make them spend then that's not their problem. It should be remembered that stockpiling your resources means you are generally more open to more types of incoming because of your reduced fleet size. Your attack fleet is also smaller meaning you have to attack better.

As regards the end of the round building, I know that all top ranked planets stay well aware of their actual position through the power of planet scans. Limiting stockpiles is just so more hand holding and I just cannot see a reason for it in this case, apart from you not liking it personally.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:40   #10
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
apart from you not liking it personally.
Liking something or not liking something is always personally. Hence the "I'd rather see"... "I also hate"... "In my opinion"... etc
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 14:41   #11
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Good point. A better solution would probably be that you can only stockpile 24 ticks worth of resources. After that you won't gain anything until you've spent resources. Better?

Not sure about the calculation of that though. I mean, what if the planet gets roided in between?
So you actually have to log in to PA every day and remember to spend or you start losing score? Even worse. It's better to solve this by giving incentives to own ships rather than resources, for example by removing the bash limit.
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 16:06   #12
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Kargool:
i have 14 medium factories and made an order of 600 pegasus initially to make a very large initial build rate. I could keep it frozen in production (33ticks from completion) by spending about 300k resources a tick (every tick it increased the production time by 1 tick - so they were effectively frozen at eta33 (for as long as i was able to add to that order as i obviosuly lost a few ticks every time i went to sleep)

When I finally let the production order complete (by moving 8 factories for an eta5 completion) i had 2500 pegasus pop out. i know it was partly suicide on my part, but i feel sorry for the Xan who thought i was an easy raid. I'm just playing for fun anyway tbh...

good fun and a great way to abuse production and anti-stockpiling limits though
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Unread 12 Jul 2007, 17:04   #13
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
It's better to solve this by giving incentives to own ships rather than resources, for example by removing the bash limit.
Probably a lot better too. I always wanted things to be as "realistic" as possible in PA and I now realize that putting a limit to stockpiles wouldn't exactly follow my line of realism
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 13:25   #14
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

In the same way that spending money is good for economies, spending resources in PA is good for the game - it means there are more roids and ships in the universe and hence more combat and fun.

But I think limiting "saving" would be a mistake, instead spending needs to be encouraged.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 13:30   #15
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Let's say that spending does indeed need to be encouraged. How does one do that? At the moment we have a situation where it often makes more strategic sense to stockpile, largely as a result of the scoring system. The bash limit encourages stockpiling because once you are big you have problems finding targets. XP also encourages it because as a small planet you will get more when you attack (or will be able to attack lower value targets for the same gain) and as a big planet you deny your enemy score from landing on you, especially late game.

You (PATeam, whoever) have purposefully built a scoring system this way. how can you just turn around and say "spending needs to be encouraged" in a no specific way and expect that to help at all?
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 13:32   #16
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

To be honest a far more important factor in encouraging stockpiling is single-class targetting.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 14:17   #17
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

The production system is ****ed up anyways. You can order 500 pegasus all at once or 5 times 100 pegs adding to the same order in the same tick, and you will still get different etas.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 14:20   #18
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
To be honest a far more important factor in encouraging stockpiling is single-class targetting.
That and build times lower than the maximum launch ETAs.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 15:13   #19
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
That and build times lower than the maximum launch ETAs.
Indeed. Because of these factors it's much more embedded causally speaking in the game than if it was due to planet naps or fencesitting or whatever. In fact there's a case to be made for those two elements emerging more because of these factors. If to do well as a planet you need to hold roids and if to hold roids you need to be able to prevent yourself being roided to a greater extent than is practical purely through building ships or joining a decent alliance.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 15:47   #20
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

There is nothing wrong in stockpiling resources. It was a valid tactic, especially considering that a xan can get roided silly by terrans or etd half their value. Having a stockpile at least gives you an intimidation factor, but you still need to be active to use your stockpile at the right time, and wisely. You don't want to open yourself to other attacks just to save roids once.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 16:06   #21
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
In the same way that spending money is good for economies, spending resources in PA is good for the game - it means there are more roids and ships in the universe and hence more combat and fun.

But I think limiting "saving" would be a mistake, instead spending needs to be encouraged.
The main direction of this game for many rounds has been away from large fleets. The combat system, bash limits, xp, are all designed to make it difficult and counterproductive for players to build and maintain large diverse fleets and strongly encourage stockpiling. All of that needs to be completely rethought if the plan now is to encourage spending.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 17:30   #22
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

so what dude?
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 17:41   #23
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
The main direction of this game for many rounds has been away from large fleets. The combat system, bash limits, xp, are all designed to make it difficult and counterproductive for players to build and maintain large diverse fleets and strongly encourage stockpiling. All of that needs to be completely rethought if the plan now is to encourage spending.
large fleets has nothing to do with encouraging or discouraging spending. If ships die it is a motivation to build new ships and spend resources. Therefore encouraging combat and ships dying will encourage spending.

It is pretty easy to solve the bash limit issue as well: you simply change how value works so its the sum of all resources whether ships, ships in production or resources, so that your don;t get a lower value by holiding resources in anyway.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 18:12   #24
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
It is pretty easy to solve the bash limit issue as well: you simply change how value works so its the sum of all resources whether ships, ships in production or resources, so that your don;t get a lower value by holiding resources in anyway.

this has been proposed by a lot of ppl over the last rounds; any specific reason why it wasn't already implemented like 2 years ago?
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 18:13   #25
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

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Originally Posted by Kal
large fleets has nothing to do with encouraging or discouraging spending. If ships die it is a motivation to build new ships and spend resources. Therefore encouraging combat and ships dying will encourage spending.

It is pretty easy to solve the bash limit issue as well: you simply change how value works so its the sum of all resources whether ships, ships in production or resources, so that your don;t get a lower value by holiding resources in anyway.
How do you encourage ships dying?
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 18:15   #26
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

I would prefer if they simply change how Production now facilitates resource stockpiling. Simply make it so that each time you add new ships to an existing order the amount of Production Units is recalculated for all the ships in the order, rather then adding new Production Units calculated for the addition.
You don't even have to change any formula's in the game, just how one of them is applied. A minor change that helps solve a significant problem.

You only need to spend 4012 resources each tick to keep an order going indefinately. (How? If you're a support team member I'd tell you in a private message.) I have multiple orders for multiple shiptypes going indefinately. Attack me and die.

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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 18:16   #27
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
How do you encourage ships dying?
Higher payback for landing on defense (for example by lowering damage relative to attacking armor) or change the combat engine to have secondary targets again.
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Unread 13 Jul 2007, 21:12   #28
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
It is pretty easy to solve the bash limit issue as well: you simply change how value works so its the sum of all resources whether ships, ships in production or resources, so that your don;t get a lower value by holiding resources in anyway.
Lightyears later, it still has not been done.
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Unread 14 Jul 2007, 01:29   #29
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

It's not been done because it's not a good idea.
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Unread 14 Jul 2007, 05:04   #30
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
this has been proposed by a lot of ppl over the last rounds; any specific reason why it wasn't already implemented like 2 years ago?
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Unread 14 Jul 2007, 10:36   #31
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It's not been done because it's not a good idea.
why? Just voicing an opinion is not constructive, a reason is needed.
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Unread 11 Aug 2007, 14:56   #32
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

* bump *

Now that the round is over it might be time:
- to explain how this production works (can be (ab)used)
- how this problem can be fixed

The explanation is a post I originally made on the private VGN forums.

First of all I’ll be lazy and paste what the manual has to say:

(1) Each order has a certain amount of "Production Units" (PU) associated with it and one of the three factories.
An order has to have production units for all factories complete before the ships become available.

(2) The PU for an order depend on the amount of resources it is as follows:
Production Units = (total_resources_spent^1/2)*LN(total_resources_spent^2) where LN is the "natural log".
Note that Feudualism gets a 15% discount on resources and Dictatorship gets a 5% increase on resources, and these carry through to calculating production units.

(3) Each tick, your planet produces the following amount of PU for each of the Light, Medium and Heavy factories. This can be calculated by:

Output = int(((4000 * # factories of that type)^0.98 ) * (1 + (pop_bonus + gov_bonus + race_bonus) / 100))

where int() means "take the whole number part of". The race bonuses are 10,0,10,20,10 for the respective races. The government bonuses are -35 for Feudualism, -10 for Democracy and 10 for Unification.

(4) Production time = (Required Production Units + (10000*# factories of that type allocated to that order))/Output, rounded up to the nearest number.


For those not good at math, some comments:

(1) Production units can be defined as a measure for how much production capacity is required to produce a certain value of ships. The more production units an order contains, the more time and/or factories are required to produce the order.
Production units are calculated for each type factory seperately. (The three factory types being: Light (Fi/Co), Medium (Fr/De) and Heavy (Cr/Bs).) Production is executed parallel for each factory type.
This means that if you want to get ships produced fast, there is no point in ordering Light, Medium and Heavy ships in the same order. It is better to place one order for Light ships, one order for Medium ships and one for Heavy ships.
A mixed order is finished whenever the slowest factory type has finished its production. If you have more factory types in an order you can add ships to the faster factory types, without increasing the time it takes to produce the combined order.

(2) This is a rather complex formula, but the conclusion is that production time does not increase linear with the amount of resources you spent. I.e. 2 mln. resources takes less than twice as long to produce as an order of 1 mln. resources.
Important is that whenever you add ships to an existing order, production units are calculated for that new addition and added to the order. 2 orders of 1 mln. resources takes longer than 1 order of 2 mln. resources
If you want to produce your ships fast, then only place 1 big order for every factory type and produce that order as fast as you can. Save up your resources untill the next order can be placed.

(3) 4000*# factories of that type means that every factory produces 4000 production units. The ()^0.98 means that you don’t get exactly twice the production speed when you build two factories instead of one. It’s damn close to that though. Not sure why they made the formula more complex when the effect is hardly significant.
On the right side of the formula some bonusses are calculated.

(4) This formula shows that it takes 10000 production units for every factory that has been allocated to an order. Since every factory produces ~4000 production units each tick, the minimum time it takes to complete an order is 3 ticks (2.5 rounded up).


The way production orders are now calculated allows some tactics that help you produce ships efficiently.

If you want ships produced for use, then you should expand existing orders only as long as you make the order finish when you are online with a fleet slot available. My morning order is produced after the landing tick (somewhere in the afternoon). What I order in the evening is produced during the night. When I get up more def ships have been freshly produced, before launchtime I have a new batch of attack ships available.


As described above by placing a large order and not adding ships you can produce your ships as fast as possible. The opposite however situation, where you want to delay the production of an order may also occur. Some situations where this might come in handy:
(1) maintaining a low value before landing an attack
(2) producing ships when hostiles land or after hostiles land
(3) maintaing low value permanently
(4) building up a hidden fleet for self-coverage

(1) Maintaining a low value before landing an attack is more or less a standard strategy for every player: the lower your value the more xp you get when landing an attack. For this reason people spend their saved up resources before they land their attack. If you have all your fleets out when landing an attack, there is no point in producing ships before landing. Better is to delay the production order till after your attacks have landed.

(2) You might want to produce your ships the exact tick a hostile lands on your planet to surprise him (especially if you have steal ships). The opposite might also be true. If you have no fleetslots to hide your fleet in when hostiles land and whatever you produce will be toast, it might be wise to delay the order.

(3) You might want to keep a low value permanently. This allows you to attack smaller planets and at the same time could protect you from the highest value planets in the universe.

(4) As you have seen at (2) a variant could be a permanently hidden fleet that is produced instantly when hostiles land. I myself keep a couple of weaknesses in my fleet, but at the same time keep ships hidden in production to surprise whoever might want to take my roids. This could be a very effictive tactic for Zikonians: rogues are no good for alliance defence due to their high eta. By keeping a lot of rogues hidden in production you can maintain a low value and grab someone elses attack fleet if they decide to come over and donate their Destroyers to you.

Talking about delaying orders is easy, but now you might want to know how to delay your production orders. There are three strategies for this that I know of.

The first strategy is what I call switching. You have an order of one type, then after a while add ships to that order of another type. This new addition gets 10000 factory cost for the new factory type assigned to it again, making that this new addition takes at least 3 ticks to complete.
Switching has only limited use since you can only switch two times since there are only factories types.
It might be usefull if you have a certain type of ships in production which you don’t want produced yet, but you do want to get the factory available again. Add another order for another factory type and you can finish one type of ships (and get the factory available for another order again) while delaying the order using another type of factory.

A second strategy to delay orders is what I call factory addition. If you have one factory, the factory cost are 10000. The minimum production time is now 3 ticks. Add a factory and the factory cost are 20000. The minimum production time is still 3 ticks. If you now remove 1 factory from the order, the factory cost remain at 20000, while factory output is reduced to 4000. It now takes 6 ticks to produce the order (5 plus at least 1 for whatever you put into production).
You cannot do this repeatedly, but only for as many factories as you have available. Switching from 2 factories to 1 and and back to 2 has no effect.

The most important strategy for delaying order is what I call ‘Delay by order expansion’ (production unit addition). If you want to produce orders fast you place an order as big as possible at once. So to delay an order add production units to an existing order. To delay an order while not using too many resources, repeatedly add small orders.
You need to add 4000 production units to delay an order 1 tick. Adding one ship worth 1000 resources adds ~437 production units, so you have to do this 10 times for one tick delay. If you add order expansions worth 10000 resources at once, this adds ~1842 production units, so you have to do this 6 times to add one tick. How much you want to add repeatedly will depend on how much time you have, how much patience and how much resources you want to spend for delaying orders.


I personally don't like the delay order possibility and would prefer that measures were taken to disable it. A few possible solutions:
1. produce your factory output each tick and not the entire order at once
2. remove the ability to add ships to existing orders
3. recalculate the PUs based on the ship value in the order or on what has been added to the order this tick

I don't have any major preference for each of these possible solutions.
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Unread 11 Aug 2007, 21:19   #33
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
The most important strategy for delaying order is what I call ‘Delay by order expansion’ (production unit addition). If you want to produce orders fast you place an order as big as possible at once. So to delay an order add production units to an existing order. To delay an order while not using too many resources, repeatedly add small orders.
You need to add 4000 production units to delay an order 1 tick. Adding one ship worth 1000 resources adds ~437 production units, so you have to do this 10 times for one tick delay. If you add order expansions worth 10000 resources at once, this adds ~1842 production units, so you have to do this 6 times to add one tick. How much you want to add repeatedly will depend on how much time you have, how much patience and how much resources you want to spend for delaying orders.
This is the strategy I used for my massive order. At one point my order was delayed for over 500 ticks, while I had 7 factories on the order, and 20% pop working on ships. It takes a lot of clicking, but in the end (if you don't mess it up), it's worth it.

I'm not really sure why the production formula is not linear. It stands to reason that building 100000 beetles takes 100 times as long as building 1000 beetles, and not ~14 times as long, as is the case now.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 11:35   #34
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I'm not really sure why the production formula is not linear. It stands to reason that building 100000 beetles takes 100 times as long as building 1000 beetles, and not ~14 times as long, as is the case now.
Like when printing a newspaper, the diffrence between 100 and 1,000,000 prints isnt a great deal of time. I guess.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 12:04   #35
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

how about removing res labs - make research faster and add stores to Cons to keep a certain limit of ressources e.g. 10% of Stores gets you a limit of 10m each ressource. just a thought on the stockpile issue.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 12:50   #36
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
Like when printing a newspaper, the diffrence between 100 and 1,000,000 prints isnt a great deal of time. I guess.
Except that a space ship is not exactly the same thing as a newspaper (though I can see why you're confused!).
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 18:08   #37
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antigone
how about removing res labs - make research faster and add stores to Cons to keep a certain limit of ressources e.g. 10% of Stores gets you a limit of 10m each ressource. just a thought on the stockpile issue.
Antigone proposes a good solution to the stockpile issue - one that I personally agree with, having suggested something similar near the start of the round. It's a shame that it hasn't been taken up.
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 04:14   #38
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
So you actually have to log in to PA every day and remember to spend or you start losing score? Even worse. It's better to solve this by giving incentives to own ships rather than resources, for example by removing the bash limit.

so you advocate bashing rather that pitting your wits against an equal or stronger player.. that s bull. i m happy not to have return to pa with player so limited in their way of thinking!
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 07:03   #39
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rop1964
so you advocate bashing rather that pitting your wits against an equal or stronger player.. that s bull. i m happy not to have return to pa with player so limited in their way of thinking!

I dont see quite how wits has anything to do with how many times you are able to login to PA.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 04:25   #40
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

it dont take any wits to beat down a player half your strenght.. but you need some to get through the defense of an equal or better ranked player.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 07:50   #41
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I'm not really sure why the production formula is not linear. It stands to reason that building 100000 beetles takes 100 times as long as building 1000 beetles, and not ~14 times as long, as is the case now.
It can vaguely have something to do with economics of scale. The mentioned news paper example is sort of bad because it's such an extreme case (I guess digital media would be the most extreme). If you decide to build 10 cars, you're probably best off manufacturing them by hand in a small workshop with a pair of co-workers. If you build 100 cars, you'll need a small factory. On the other hand, if you're going to build 100k cars, you'll need a massive infrastructure, but you'll be able to reap benefit from the scale. You'll have a bunch of people working on car doors, a bunch on the engines, a bunch assembling. The benefits of specialization and scale. What this has to do with Planetarion, I'm a little uncertain. There's no need for "realism" in the game, but then again why couldn't it take 14 times as long? I guess the major problem is with the adding ships to the orders already in place.
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 09:50   #42
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

The whole 'infinitely delayed' order seems hilariously realistic to me. Mythical man month anyone?
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Unread 24 Aug 2007, 21:59   #43
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

"There is no limit on the number of orders you can have, but the relevant factory "processing" ability is shared over all active orders. Therefore, if you have several Fi/Co orders, they'd slow each other down. More of the relevant type of factory speed up production.

You also have the ability to add ships to an order if you wish."
I don't see how this changes much. Just don't build too many factories. Less micro management also.
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 12:26   #44
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Except that a space ship is not exactly the same thing as a newspaper (though I can see why you're confused!).
Hmm actually you're wrong.

In order to build a spaceship, you would need parts. As you can well imagen, building a 100 machines to build 100 parts for ONE space ship would take alot of time. If you then told machine to make 100 parts instead of one, all the hardwork such as programming, materials, design are already done so the machine just prints them off as if it were a newspaper.

Ofc neither of us has ever built or ever going to build a REAL spaceship, so i guess well never know
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Unread 25 Aug 2007, 12:40   #45
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Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

That's how ships (the ones that go through water, not the ones that go through space) are made, is it? You just press a button, et voila, ship comes out?
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Unread 26 Aug 2007, 13:22   #46
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Talking Re: New productionsystem makes it easier to stockpile resources.

bring back them there Cargo ships to stop the stock piling....... maybe only for a specific race, it appears that imo Zik and etd have more advantages than the other races so maybe they lose out.................... at least that way stock piling MIGHT not be so attractive, however it wont stop some abuse as mentioned above......... on the other hand Cargo ships may encourage more farming hehehehehe, glad i only play for fun and dont have to sort out all theese problems....
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