[Politics] talking rice

[Yahwe]

America must learn foreign languages and try to understand different cultures:

“We can and we must do more. Our interaction must be a conversation, not a monologue,”
Condoleezza Rice, incoming Sectretary of State.

surely this was always obvious and apparent. an immature nation often causes more problems than necessary when given an empire, for example king leopolod's belgian empire's effect on the congo.

is america however even capable of growing up?

[KoeN]

in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.

[Hicks]

Originally Posted by KoeN

in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.

I can, I imagine most American's already learn to speak English in kindergarten

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Hicks

I imagine most American's learn to speak English in kindergarten.

really?
i was sure it was part of their undergraduate degree.

[G.K Zhukov]

Georgie b0y didnt attend kindergarten

[roadrunner_0]

america will only ever grow up if they manage to get rid of the curious mix of attitudes that they have, and become one country, rather than a nation of states with wildly differing views.


i actually think that america would do better if it was split into 2 smaller countries

[wu_trax]

what for? so that they can threaten and/ or insult other countries in their native language? yes, i'm sure that will make things better.

[Nodrog]

If something foreign is even remotely important, it will be translated into English at some point.

Originally Posted by KoeN

in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.

The reason Chinese people learn English is because knowledge of the English language is vitally important for most people who wish to take part in business or academic life since, like it or not, it is the global language. There is no other langage that is even remotely as important, hence there is no real need for Americans to learn a second language in kindergarten. If they were to do so, it would be a completely arbitrary choice - does it really matter whether the 2nd language an American child learns is French, Dutch, or German? All are likely to be equally useless to his/her future life.

[JonnyBGood]

Or burnt and erased from history.

[roadrunner_0]

english may be the global language, but that kind of attitude is exactally why america (and england, although not to as great an extent i feel) needs to grow up

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

english may be the global language, but that kind of attitude is exactally why america (and england, although not to as great an extent i feel) needs to grow up

Yeah, lets all be mature pretend other things are more important than they are in order to make people feel better.

It's certainly possible that knowledge of Chinese (for instance) will become important in the future depending upon how the global markets develop, but there certainly isnt any pressing reason at the moment for someone to learn a non-English language unless they wished to live in a non-English speaking country, or had some purely personal reason for doing so (such as being interested in languages or ^__________^ anime or whatever).

[roadrunner_0]

what?
what kind of a reply was that?

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

what?
what kind of a reply was that?

Non-english languages are utterly irrelevant in today's world. Acknowledging this isnt 'childish'.

[roadrunner_0]

well, as there is still a majority of the world who don't speak english, i would say that they are highly relevant.

and to say otherwise is part of the arrogance which it would be better if we lost


EDIT: PS, nicely edited

[Yahwe]

*cough*

the learning new languages thing might be seen as a 'metaphore'...

[roadrunner_0]

well, i know, hence my original reply, but nod tried to go off on the english for big business tangent.

EDIT: but, whils't still being a good metaphore for the whole subject, the issue of language is perhaps also central to the understanding of the inherent arrogance of the english speaking nations

(apart from the canadians as they are all soft and cuddly)

[Dante Hicks]

The idea that America is somehow collectively "immature" is incredibly stupid.

[roadrunner_0]

america isn't, parts of it are, i know that immature possibly isnt the greatest way of descrinbing it, but i cant think of another way off the top of my head and i'm tired

[JonnyBGood]

The point is that you can't make such massive generalisations about a country without looking foolish. Not that one specific generalisation is wrong.


(At least I think that's the point heh)

[roadrunner_0]

i know, but i feel it misses the thrust of my initial post

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

The idea that America is somehow collectively "immature" is incredibly stupid.

its foreign policy has been immature since its creation.

that better?

[Nusselt]

Although english is an 'important' language* its complete lunacy to suggest other languages are irrelevant especially in the business world (and it is childish). The bigger 'globalised' companies can and do use english in the boardroom as a common language but almost everything else is done in the language of the nation you are in. Academic work is also not exclusively carried out in english - where the hell did that come from?

English is 'important' but not nearly as important as nod seems to be making out.

*language of aviation and arguably global business

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Nusselt

Academic work is also not exclusively carried out in english - where the hell did that come from?

gordon

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

its foreign policy has been immature since its creation.

that better?

Slightly.

[Obliterate]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Non-english languages are utterly irrelevant in today's world. Acknowledging this isnt 'childish'.

Did you know that 72% of UK trade is with non-English speaking countries, and 94% of the world's population do not speak English (as their first language)?

[Nondescript Human]

That doesn't really matter; foreign languages still aren't useful enough for learning them to be a worthwhile investment of time for the average native English-speaker in my opinion.

[mist]

given that the 'average' native english speaker is american i'd probably agree. for actual english people i'd disagree, as whether we like it or not we look like we'll soon be living by laws written in french/german.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

The point is that you can't make such massive generalisations about a country without looking foolish.

That's not what Zhukov says.

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Non-english languages are utterly irrelevant in today's world. Acknowledging this isnt 'childish'.

probably the most stupid post you ever made here.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

That's not what Zhukov says.

Do not worry. Stalin knows how to deal with zhukov!

[JC]

Originally Posted by KoeN

in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.

19 out of the 20 Chinese people on my course cant speak it properly enough for me to hold a decent conversation with them. They must be able to write it ok and understand spoken English seeing as my masters is taught in English, but when it comes to conversing they are shit .

Sweeping generalisation based on the ~20 Chinese people i know that have been educated in China to degree level.

[Boogster]

If America was in China's position, Americans would learn Chinese at kindergarten.

[Ninja_spammer]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Do not worry. Stalin knows how to deal with zhukov!

Shall I dust off the Gonad electrocution kit?

[Marilyn Manson]

People will be pretty ****ed in fifty years time, when China completely domineers the global economy, and people in the west have to not only learn a new language, but a completely different character script.

[Nusselt]

No they won't nothing of significance will change you won't have to learn chinese because the chinese businesses that come here will work in english, there seems to be this OMG CHINESE 50 YRS TIME fear going on, the japanese economy is the second largest in the world i don't see masses of people learning japanese (unless they plan on going there). If your company does business in china you will have to learn chinese, but thats the same with people doing business in europe, you can't get away with only english. Chill duder.

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by JC

19 out of the 20 Chinese people on my course cant speak it properly enough for me to hold a decent conversation with them. They must be able to write it ok and understand spoken English seeing as my masters is taught in English, but when it comes to conversing they are shit .

Sweeping generalisation based on the ~20 Chinese people i know that have been educated in China to degree level.

true, but i think things are a bit different for the current generation of young chinese people.
you can't compare it to the situation 20 years ago.

[LHC]

There are Chinese people in my maths class that have been in this country for greater than a year, live with English families, have a course taught to them in English, allegedly received English lessons in China and yet can't string a sentence together in English.

But if it is so great and everybody else learns English and shit what is the point in learning a new language? What, so a Chinese person speaks to me in English and I speak to him in Chinese. Hay folks, let's swap languages.

[Stew]

Will the fact that the Chinese alphabet has 5000 characters (I believe - I could well be wrong already), and these won't fit easily on a keyboard hinder the development of the Chinese language?
Now I realise that they've obviously coped so far with the internet and computers, but I'm talking in development terms. Or does it mean the language of Chinese that will spread (yes I know there are a lot fo variations) will be a simplified one?


I'm asking this because I generally don't know, was just wondering it, and I also appreciate the above may be full of inaccuracies.

[wu_trax]

i don't think we will all have to learn chinese. english works just fine, so there is no need for any change. maybe people in other asian countries will start using it for buiness, and even that only if it easier for them to pick it up. i don't know any asian language so i have no idea how closely related all those languages are.

btw, i always thought there isn't a 'chinese' language, but that they speak a few different ones, like mandarine or cantonese.

[Yahwe]

stop Talking About Chinese Just Because Gordon Mentioned It.

This Is A Thread About America's Foreign Policy, Not Which Languages You Can Speak.

Address The Issue Or: Thready Go Bye Bye

[pig]

i think we can mock the americans for the lack of culture but being british i feel we lack culture too. More than ever I believe we are not trying to learn foreign languages. I would love to have been taught french and german in primary school along with english and be fluent in it by the time I reached High School. I am fluent in it but i had to live in the countries for this to happen.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by pig

i think we can mock the americans for the lack of culture but being british i feel we lack culture too. More than ever I believe we are not trying to learn foreign languages. I would love to have been taught french and german in primary school along with english and be fluent in it by the time I reached High School. I am fluent in it but i had to live in the countries for this to happen.

its a metaphore.

americans will not actually learn any more languages than they already learn.

what she promised, and you might be right not to believe her, is that the US will try to understand others.

this understanding is key because quite frankly the US has lacked it for so long. they are the global empire, they always needed to learn that there has always been a global empire and the key question is not whether you are it or not, but whether you can keep it.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

its a metaphore.

americans will not actually learn any more languages than they already learn.

what she promised, and you might be right not to believe her, is that the US will try to understand others.

this understanding is key because quite frankly the US has lacked it for so long. they are the global empire, they always needed to learn that there has always been a global empire and the key question is not whether you are it or not, but whether you can keep it.

They should make every american have a passport and like at uni where you have a year abroad option paid for by the EU they should have a year abroad option in a german or british office.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by pig

They should make every american have a passport and like at uni where you have a year abroad option paid for by the EU they should have a year abroad option in a german or british office.

i'm not paying.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

i'm not paying.

it would be comedy though, take my lecture tomoz morning or today even in 6 hours, I will be sitting next to two hot American girls who look like they have stepped out of a tommy hillfigger advert. I will then preceed to be more british than I am, and will then suggest they come back to my house for some "group" work. Now you couldnt do this with english girls, yet yanks they are so bloody gullable and easy.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by pig

it would be comedy though, take my lecture tomoz morning or today even in 6 hours, I will be sitting next to two hot American girls who look like they have stepped out of a tommy hillfigger advert. I will then preceed to be more british than I am, and will then suggest they come back to my house for some "group" work. Now you couldnt do this with english girls, yet yanks they are so bloody gullable and easy.

and i pull best when i flop my hair and stutter. (can anyone say hugh g-g-g-rant)

however this is hardly the point.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

and i pull best when i flop my hair and stutter. (can anyone say hugh g-g-g-rant)

however this is hardly the point.

true. on that note im off to bed, have to practice my james bond voice for the yanks.

[demiGOD]

we call her Cunnilingus Rice - thats her real name... Condoleezza was just a name Bush gave her when she picked up national security advisor.. he thought that the name Cunnilingus might spark another Bill Clinton fellatio incident

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

i actually think that america would do better if it was split into 2 smaller countries

hmm.. i think that's already been done (canada - US) - but then again, technically, most mexicans are native americans that got raped by spanish priests during the spanish inquisition, so, i guess its safe to say that we are split into 3 actually..

then again, i dont really understand the argument in all this because even with the fact that the french-speaking community outnumbers the english-speaking people by at least 20% - it has been decided that the english language is the most user-friendly of them all

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

it has been decided that the english language is the most user-friendly of them all

because 99% of all people who english as their native language refuse to learn any other language?