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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 17:39   #1
Rids
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Buying A New PC

Now, I'm in the market for a new PC, as the one I have currently is acting ****ed, and its due a replacement.

I'm pretty cool with buying the parts / putting it together myself, so its not about anything like that, but one thing i've been wondering.

Is now a good time to do it? I'll be building a gaming rig, about the best spec I can manage, probably spending £2k or so. But is there anything coming out in the next 3 months or so that means I should really hold off until it comes out?

I've been browsing Toms Hardware and such in the hope of an answer to my question and as yet I've found nothing, but that doesnt mean I'm not missing something.

So tell me please I have to know, should I stay or should I go?
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 17:56   #2
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Re: Buying A New PC

Generally speaking waiting 3 or 4 months won't make much difference, especially in this day and age when progress has slowed down in the PC market. The only thing that might be worth looking at is if there is a new generation of graphics card coming out soon, the older graphics cards tend to come down in price quite a lot then. Though it usually takes a few weeks from when the new card is released and prices for old cards drop.
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 17:58   #3
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Re: Buying A New PC

you shouldnt need to spend 2k rids,

more like 800 at most, plus monitor choice, maybe a hundred more for a decent speaker/sub setup
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 17:59   #4
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Re: Buying A New PC

4,000 posts \o/

You must be proud
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 17:59   #5
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Re: Buying A New PC

I owe it all to my keyboard.
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 18:00   #6
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Re: Buying A New PC

If your planning to spend something like that ammount, I suggest buying a AMD chipset with PC Express.
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 18:01   #7
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Re: Buying A New PC

pah, now you've ruined it :/

Oh well, just have to wait for 5,000 now.
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 18:17   #8
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
...?
oh, to answer your question, there's always something worth waiting for, the trick is to not give a shit and buy the best you can at the time.
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 18:28   #9
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Question Re: Buying A New PC

Can you afford that on top of your child support payments, Rids?
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 18:35   #10
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Question Re: Buying A New PC

To Dace?
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 19:31   #11
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Re: Buying A New PC

Flavs ban has seemed to have made him funnier and in general a better poster.
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Unread 20 Jun 2005, 20:57   #12
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Re: Buying A New PC

Now that this post started to de-rail...

How is everyone today?
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Unread 21 Jun 2005, 10:10   #13
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
Now, I'm in the market for a new PC, as the one I have currently is acting ****ed, and its due a replacement.

I'm pretty cool with buying the parts / putting it together myself, so its not about anything like that, but one thing i've been wondering.

Is now a good time to do it? I'll be building a gaming rig, about the best spec I can manage, probably spending £2k or so. But is there anything coming out in the next 3 months or so that means I should really hold off until it comes out?

I've been browsing Toms Hardware and such in the hope of an answer to my question and as yet I've found nothing, but that doesnt mean I'm not missing something.

So tell me please I have to know, should I stay or should I go?
well... CPU wise, not really, AMD only going to release the FX-57 and their dual core (AMD X2) CPUs seem to be taking their time... both CPUs are dead expensive mind you.

GFX wise, Nvidia are to release their newest card (7800GTX) real soon, and ATI to follow with their R520 a few months later, both cards will be faster than the fastest of todays range, and upon their release current cards should become cheaper.

I agree with not having the need to spend £2k, the more you spend the more you lose when new hardware sees the market every 6 months or so...
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Unread 21 Jun 2005, 16:36   #14
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckeh!!!!
GFX wise, Nvidia are to release their newest card (7800GTX) real soon
any idea on how soon (other than real soon), because i was thinking of getting a 6600GT, but if there's another one coming out whitin a month i'll wait and get a 6800 when they come down in price
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Unread 22 Jun 2005, 12:21   #15
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
any idea on how soon (other than real soon), because i was thinking of getting a 6600GT, but if there's another one coming out whitin a month i'll wait and get a 6800 when they come down in price
official release was a few days ago actually, official reviews have not yet surfaced and Etailers have not recieved their shipments yet.
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Unread 22 Jun 2005, 14:26   #16
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Re: Buying A New PC

How "dediacted to the cause" are you on the gaming front?
I mean you can be completely stupid and buy an Athlon64 FX-55, Asus A8N-SLI Premium board, two GeForce 6800Ultra cards to work in SLI mode, and a couple of gigs of the incredibly expensive Corsair RAM.

A more realistic option would be:
AMD Athlon64 3200+/3500+
Asus A8N-SLI / A8N-SLI Deluxe
A single GeForce 6600GT (leaves the option to put another one in later)
1GB Crucial Ballistix kit (two x 512MB - important!)

Harddrives/optical drives/etc as you wish. I would recommend samsung or seagate on the harddrive side though. Very reliable and also very quiet.

Now an explanation of what I've suggested.
The processor - the Athlon64s have the advantage over Intel at the moment simply because you'll be able to move to a 64bit OS should you want to, without needing to upgrade hardware. They are also very fast processors in their own right, in both 32bit and 64bit mode. I have the Athlon64 3000+ as when I got mine they were somewhat more expensive than they are now.
The motherboard - Asus have a reputation for reliability, and my last three boards going back 6 years have come from them. The 6 year old is still going strong and all three have proved to be good. I have the A8N-SLI Deluxe, although I am not currently using two graphics cards.
The graphics card - ATI and nVidia are pretty much neck and neck right now. However, if you want to make use of the SLI facility you'll need nVidia graphics cards. The 6600GT is the best price to performance ratio card you can get right now, and will play things such as HL2, Doom 3 and FarCry solidly. I also have one.
The memory - You can go with cheaper RAM if you want. Crucial Ballistix memory has proven to be very good with the Athlon64 memory controller (it's built onto the chip) in many reviews, and can be pushed quite hard if you want. It's rated for 2-2-2-6 timings, which is what I have mine set to, although you will need to manually enter that in the BIOS. It is important to use two modules as the Athlon64 memory controller is a dual channel controller - ie. it can access two channels at full speed, so you get double the memory bandwidth compared to a single 1GB module.

Some important features of the A8N-SLI Deluxe:
Support dual core chips with a BIOS upgrade.
PCI-express and legacy PCI slots. PCI-express takes over from AGP, so make SURE you get a PCI-e graphics card.
8 Serial ATA ports. 4 provided by the nVidia chipset, 4 provided by an additional Silicon Image RAID controller. The nVidia ports can be used as standard individual drives or in a RAID configuration. The S/I controller ports can only be used in a RAID configuration.
2 Parrarllel ATA channels, providing the standard compatibility found on all motherboards for years. You can connect any existing harddrive or cd/dvd drive to these just as in any other system. As usual, up to 4 drives can be connected. The PATA ports are also handled by the nVidia chipset, and can be combined with the SATA ports when using RAID if you wish (ie. you may use SATA and PATA devices in the same array).
2 x gigabit ethernet, 2 x firewire, 8 x USB2, onboard sound, temperature based fan control, etc etc.


For your reference, the relevant parts of my system are:
Athlon64 3000+
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
The 1GB Crucial memory pack mentioned above.
A Gainward branded GeForce 6600GT 128MB.
Creative Audigy 2 ZS

I can play HalfLife 2 comfortably at 1280x1024.
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Last edited by meglamaniac; 22 Jun 2005 at 14:31.
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Unread 22 Jun 2005, 14:30   #17
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
any idea on how soon (other than real soon), because i was thinking of getting a 6600GT, but if there's another one coming out whitin a month i'll wait and get a 6800 when they come down in price
Unless you're made of money, don't bother. New graphics cards are always a ripoff, top of the line ones moreso. nVidia, along with most consumer electronics manufacturers, cream the market. That is, they release a new product, pitch it at a price 50% above what they intend to sell it at for a couple of months, let the suckers who must have "the latest and greatest" buy it, wait til sales dip, then slowly cut the price down to the "real" intended price.
Buying a graphics card at any time before 3 months have passed since it's release is a sure way to get screwed.

Forget dual core processors btw - at the moment no games are properly multithreaded, so you'll effectively be buying an extra processor which won't be used.
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 15:27   #18
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Re: Buying A New PC

Bought this last week, building tomorrow:

AMD 3800+
EPoX EP-9NPA+ Ultra [Nforce4 Ulatra)
3x Corsair XMS3200C2 [before you all say it, it was only €12 more expensive than Corsair S Vlaue per stick]
MSI X850XT
2x Hitachit 160GB SATA 2 NCQ [in RAID 0]
Antec Neo 480 Watt
Thermaltake Shark, Black
IIyama 17" TFT
5.1 surround sound
Dual layer DVD writer
DVD drive

About €2000 which is £1400

This is powerful enough system-all for about £600 cheaper than your originbal estimate.

Unless you are buying Nvidia's SLI, you dont need a board with SLI support- you're paying a premium for it.
If you really want two graphics cards, wait a few weeks till ATi's "Crossfire" comes out- in SLI you need 2 cards - exactly the same, while Crossfire it just has to be an x800 or x850 series. I'm too tired to go into detail, so apologies.

I agree with Megla- dual-cores are way too expensive right now.

I would also agree with his take on graphics cards- the Ati X800XL seems to be the best bang for buck right now.

AMD is you want a gaming rig, more bang for buck and the integrated memory controller really goes that extra little bit.

A8N Deluxe is a nice board, a bit pricey for my liking- and i can't remember if it supports SATA2. SATA= theoritical tranfer rate of 150Mb/s and SATA2= theoretical transfer rate of 300Mb/s. Seeing as a SATA2 HDD is priced the same as SATA, id buy SATA2.

The Crucial memory Megla mentioned is top stuff- but on Komplett each of those XMS's are €65 which is pretty competitive- and buy 2 of the same speed to take advantage of the dual channel memory etc.

Nvidia released the 7800, its outperforms the best of the rest by 15-20%. Costs far far more though. Ati will release the "Fudo" built on the R520 core, which should then outperform the 7800. And then Nvidia will enable ALL the pipelines on the 7800 [it has 32 but only 24 enabled] and Ati will do the same. Basically, there is no point waiting for the "next best thing".

From what I see, there is usually a price drop after the "summer rush"- around late august, early september.


Have fun building your system.
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 16:11   #19
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Re: Buying A New PC

I guess I should give you guys an idea on how dedicated to PC gaming I am.

My current rig, the one currently going down the shitter.

is a Pentium 4 3.2ghz
2 Gig Ram (pretty fast stuff iirc)
Radeon 9800 XT
2 x 200g HD
Soundblaster 5.1 Plat

etc etc

Cost me about £2300 18months ago when it was truly top of the top.

I'm looking at going for the SLI Geforce thing, completely over the top, but then again, it'd set me up for the next 18 months too. Problem I'm having with this is over heating, it has 6 case fans, a tank of a CPU fan, and is parked oposite my air conditioner so it should be cool, it should be ice cold. Even after removing the heatsink, cleaing it, cleaning the fan, checking all the fans to make sure they're spinning, its still overheating like a mother ****er and causing system crashes.
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 16:53   #20
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Re: Buying A New PC

There are two reasons that runs so hot.
1: it's a pentium 4
2: it's a pentium 4

P4's run incredibly hot - the equivilant A64 will put out considerably less heat (we're talking about tens of watts here) and when idle will also underclock itself so will be even cooler.
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 17:27   #21
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Re: Buying A New PC

Ok, if you are willing to spend that much.


GO CROSSFIRE

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...602/index.html

Most importantly: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...ssfire-03.html

Read about the four rendering modes.

SLI [i]only/I] does scissors! Ati does four different modes- SuperAA for those into detailed realism and Alternate Frame rendering for those speed junkies.

Not to mention the upgrade options available to you- all you need is a card within the same family eg. x800 or x850 and not the EXACT same card, manufacturer and drivers as SLI.

Not to mention that not all games support SLI, yes this means it is useless for some games.
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 17:31   #22
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
There are two reasons that runs so hot.
1: it's a pentium 4
2: it's a pentium 4

P4's run incredibly hot - the equivilant A64 will put out considerably less heat (we're talking about tens of watts here) and when idle will also underclock itself so will be even cooler.
Oh boy, he's right. They are notorious for this- not to mention that when they get hot, they start to affect system stability- crashes, freezes etc... *shudder*

Athlon's are cheaper faster [for the same price] and have native 64 bitt architechture, dual channel memory controller... better chipset on their mobos [though I think you can get nFOrce 4 on Intel mobos now.]
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 18:58   #23
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Re: Buying A New PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
I guess I should give you guys an idea on how dedicated to PC gaming I am.

My current rig, the one currently going down the shitter.

is a Pentium 4 3.2ghz
2 Gig Ram (pretty fast stuff iirc)
Radeon 9800 XT
2 x 200g HD
Soundblaster 5.1 Plat

etc etc

Cost me about £2300 18months ago when it was truly top of the top.

I'm looking at going for the SLI Geforce thing, completely over the top, but then again, it'd set me up for the next 18 months too. Problem I'm having with this is over heating, it has 6 case fans, a tank of a CPU fan, and is parked oposite my air conditioner so it should be cool, it should be ice cold. Even after removing the heatsink, cleaing it, cleaning the fan, checking all the fans to make sure they're spinning, its still overheating like a mother ****er and causing system crashes.
Why are you even thinking about upgrading? I have a 2.2 gig processor and a 9700 Pro and I won't be upgrading for many months to come.

I doubt whether you'll notice much of a change in performance if you do upgrade.
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 20:07   #24
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Re: Buying A New PC

im running an AMD Athlon 2100XP running at 1.76ghz with a geforce6600gt and 512meg of DDR

the memory could do with an upgrade. as could the ram to at least a gig. need some more space too. 110gig is a bit slim these days. however the fact you are nearly double my spec and thinking of upgrading makes me very angry indeed.

:-((((
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Unread 23 Jun 2005, 22:40   #25
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Re: Buying A New PC

Its not so much upgrading, as I want a PC that works well, and doesnt give me the shit that this one does. Also, I'd be flogging this one cheap if / when I do get around to upgrading.
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