Planetarion Forums

Gayle29uk · 24 Feb 2003, 17:42

...according to a claim in front af an employment tribunal. A male employee has complained that while men are made to wear shirt and tie there are no restrictions on what women can wear to work.

Full details from the BBC are here.

Christian · 24 Feb 2003, 18:01

Most men don't care alot about what they wear. Most women do. If a company let men wear what they wanted to wear, some would show up in shirts, hoods, kilts etc. Which would really look quite unprofessional to anyone whom visited the company from outside. As for the women, they will always want to look good to show that they have a respect for their job, or quite simply just to impress the men (Wannabe sexsymbols if you will).
Another problem would be that with there being so many different types of styles out there, people who should be working together, might suddenly get alot of prejuidces against who-ever they are set up to work with. Whilst the shirt and tie policy keeps everyone anymonous and good looking.

I very much favor it.

Nixjim · 24 Feb 2003, 18:08

I have never heard a good reason for ties. Sure they keep your collar closed, a button does the same. Dress shirt and suit I can understand, but screw the tie.

Pyr0 MK III · 24 Feb 2003, 18:08

by jings that man looks a freak

Christian · 24 Feb 2003, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Nixjim
I have never heard a good reason for ties.

You'll look like a twat without one.
It's true - try it.

G_frog · 24 Feb 2003, 18:13

he appears to have a point.

i expect the incoherent ramblers that pass for feminists these days will have a jolly good rant about this one in the papers soonish.

G_frog · 24 Feb 2003, 18:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Nixjim
Dress shirt

technically a dress shirt would be what you wear with a dinner suit.

mpr0733 · 24 Feb 2003, 18:22

Ties are a covert version of the well known lengthy beard. They imply wisdom.

Scoot951 · 24 Feb 2003, 18:47

I'm seriously hoping I manage to get a job at a place without a dress code when I'm out of here. The office my dad works at doesn't care as long as you look 'professional', and even then people still wear jeans & T-shirts at times.

Sub · 24 Feb 2003, 18:58

I don't understand why there is a need for looking "professional". Surely they should base their view on workers by the quality of the work, not their appearance.

Deffeh · 24 Feb 2003, 19:01

he does have a point

but imagine the uproar if you told women they had to wear shirts

yuck! no! they are unpretty!

MAdnRisKy · 24 Feb 2003, 19:45

we're not arguing whether or not shirt and tie is good or bad, we're arguing if under the sex discrimination act, he has a claim that forcing men to wear a tie is sex discrimination, which it blatently is :/

And for once I like the laws. Stick this in your pipe and smoke it feminists!

LHC · 24 Feb 2003, 20:56

He should wear a bloody bag.

Sarina_Joy · 24 Feb 2003, 21:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Sub
Surely they should base their view on workers by the quality of the work, not their appearance.

A friend of mine works in Next (in the house and home part). For her last appraisal she was graded 'unsatisfactory' over all, and when she asked why her boss told her that there was no problem with her work, but that she had to give her that grade because she didn't wear makeup.

MAdnRisKy · 24 Feb 2003, 21:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarina_Joy
A friend of mine works in Next (in the house and home part). For her last appraisal she was graded 'unsatisfactory' over all, and when she asked why her boss told her that there was no problem with her work, but that she had to give her that grade because she didn't wear makeup.

do the men wear make up?

if not, that boss was out of line :/

Sarina_Joy · 24 Feb 2003, 21:18

Quote:

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
do the men wear make up?

if not, that boss was out of line :/

I assume not. Actually I don't think any men work in the shop :/

MrPeach · 24 Feb 2003, 21:24

I read this earlier on the BBC site and thought to myself

"i bet someone will make a post about this"

And I was right, I'm so good, I just love myself.

Nixjim · 24 Feb 2003, 21:47

Quote:

Originally posted by MrPeach
I read this earlier on the BBC site and thought to myself

"i bet someone will make a post about this"

And I was right, I'm so good, I just love myself.

No fair, that could to easily have become a self-fullfiing prophecy, if no one else had posted it you would have.

Christian · 24 Feb 2003, 21:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Sub
I don't understand why there is a need for looking "professional". Surely they should base their view on workers by the quality of the work, not their appearance.

The first 20 seconds you look or/and speak with a man or a woman is what you base about 75% of your feeling towards that individual.
Imagine a company with 20 peter pan look-a-likes all wearing tights.

Sarina_Joy · 24 Feb 2003, 21:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Christian

Imagine a company with 20 peter pan look-a-likes all wearing tights.

Like this?

GavGull · 24 Feb 2003, 22:20

If sexism hadn't existed for so long there may have been time to develop a generic female business dress code and this wouldn't be a problem. The cause is self-defeating anyway, it's end result is more likely to be stricter regulation of female dress rather than "liberation" of male dress.

Sub · 24 Feb 2003, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Christian
The first 20 seconds you look or/and speak with a man or a woman is what you base about 75% of your feeling towards that individual.
Imagine a company with 20 peter pan look-a-likes all wearing tights.

I wouldn't care if they did a good job.

Marilyn Manson · 24 Feb 2003, 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarina_Joy
Like this?

That picture made me make a strange farting noise out of the side of my mouth. I think the people here are having uncharitable thoughts about me now.

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 01:09

He is right and I support this case.

Nixjim · 25 Feb 2003, 01:53

How you dress should depend on your job. If you are responsible for dealing with customers then it is more important than if your a faceless number in a cubicle.

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 01:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Nixjim
How you dress should depend on your job. If you are responsible for dealing with customers then it is more important than if your a faceless number in a cubicle.

How you are dressed has no impact on your ability to perform the job you are being employed to do.

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 02:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki
I would prefare wearing a shirt and tie to work. It makes you look smart and proffesional.
.

No it doesnt, you just think it does.

-o|DarkJedi|o- · 25 Feb 2003, 02:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
...according to a claim in front af an employment tribunal. A male employee has complained that while men are made to wear shirt and tie there are no restrictions on what women can wear to work.

Full details from the BBC are here.

About time too.

Tho i must stress i look fking great in a suit!

Xillah · 25 Feb 2003, 05:13

I agree with this.

I worked in a call center a couple of years ago and men had to wear **** and ties on week days (weekends were casual.), women could come in looking like a sack of ****, I ended up spending a couple hundred quid on shirts/ties/trousers, still pisses me off now how women could wear whatever the hell they wanted to (well, no jeans, denim skirts were seen a mlot though).

The place i work at now (another call center) is alot more casual with the cloths (no trainers but I'm totally fine with that, should be a certain level of smartness). There okay with jeans, as long as there not full of holes or arround your arse or somthing. No massive logos on tops, nothing that can be deemed offensive (this includes fcuk tops). Its pretty cool because i can go straight out after work.

Judge · 25 Feb 2003, 07:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Xillah
I agree with this.

Its pretty cool because i can go straight out after work.

eewwww.

Go home get a shower and get changed ffs, People stink when they have been working all day..........sweaty bodies are not what is needed when others have to put up with it.

LHC · 25 Feb 2003, 09:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Nodrog
How you are dressed has no impact on your ability to perform the job you are being employed to do.

If you work face to face with people, it's important to look smart. Nobody would pay any attention to you if you were offering somebody a loan while dressed in an Easter Bunny costume.

LHC · 25 Feb 2003, 09:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Judge
People stink when they have been working all day

Not everybody is paid to run on a treadmill next to a blast furnace, and only fat people sweat for no reason whatsoever.

roadrunner_0 · 25 Feb 2003, 10:17

I agree with the case, i work for the county council as front line staff (for those that dont know, this means i work with the public) and am the only male moeber of staff in this branch. Now the female members of staff can wear pretty much what they want, and have been known to come in in jeans, whereas I hpretty much have to wear a shirt, although i can get away without the tie

.
But last week our area manager came down to see us about some funding issues, and he was in jeans and a fleece top :/ i was a bit unhappy about this and i would get bollocked if i wore that

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by LHC
If you work face to face with people, it's important to look smart. Nobody would pay any attention to you if you were offering somebody a loan while dressed in an Easter Bunny costume.

Not wearing a suit is comparable to dressing as the Easter Bunny? As long as the staff were 'reasonably' dressed, I dont see the problem.

LHC · 25 Feb 2003, 10:56

I agree that ties aren't particularly neccessary. I meant that some degree of professional dress is needed.

But since he's at a job center, it doesn't need to be great, as all the people there will be wearing bin liners or potato sacks.

queball · 25 Feb 2003, 11:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Nodrog
No it doesnt, you just think it does.

A lot of people think suits look smart and professional. I'm sure the customers who care about how people dress think suits look smarter. Even if employees are not working with the public, working around smartly dressed people reminds them they're at work innit. An employer should be able to set whatever rules he likes, if you don't like it don't take the job.

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 11:04

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
A lot of people think suits look smart and professional. I'm sure the customers who care about how people dress think suits look smarter. Even if employees are not working with the public, working around smartly dressed people reminds them they're at work innit. An employer should be able to set whatever rules he likes, if you don't like it don't take the job.

State run job center != private business. Different standards apply; if the man in question was a private-sector worker then he would not have a case, because a private employer should be allowed to discriminate against staff in any way they please. You cant apply free-market discrimination principles to an area which by definition lies outwith the free-market however.

queball · 25 Feb 2003, 11:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Nodrog
State run job center != private business. Different standards apply; if the man in question was a private-sector worker then he would not have a case, because a private employer should be allowed to discriminate against staff in any way they please.

OK, but I'll still argue it's reasonable for civil servants to have dress codes.

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 11:10

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
OK, but I'll still argue it's reasonable for civil servants to have dress codes.

However the case wasnt about dress codes as such, it was about sexual discrimination within the public sector.

queball · 25 Feb 2003, 11:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Nodrog
However the case wasnt about dress codes as such, it was about sexual discrimination within the public sector.

Yeah but then you argued against dress codes in general, and I replied to that.

Nodrog · 25 Feb 2003, 11:18

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
Yeah but then you argued against dress codes in general, and I replied to that. :confused:

oh :(

Well anyway, dress codes are generally stupid and are detrimental to everyone involved in the long run. However, from the position of one individual company, I can understand why a dress code is preferable, due to game theory and all that.

-o|DarkJedi|o- · 25 Feb 2003, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by LHC
If you work face to face with people, it's important to look smart. Nobody would pay any attention to you if you were offering somebody a loan while dressed in an Easter Bunny costume.

depends how big her easter eggs were!

[GAP]Obiwan · 25 Feb 2003, 14:21

Heh i remember some of the dress code at my old sk00l, i was taken out of lessons for 2 weeks because my hair was too short! they said i was supporting communism??? my friend was sent home because he's hair was too long, and my m8 Julie was sent home because her heel was "2 cm to long!!!!"

oh yeah and we wore a brown and yellow uniform

If you look at aeriel shots of the sk00l it would resemble the view you get looking down a toilet.

Now i'm working in an office - I ****ING H8 TIES, there like wrapping cheesewire round your neck.

life sucks

Deffeh · 25 Feb 2003, 18:27

i havent had my hair cut since september.