Planetarion Forums

Blazde · 27 Dec 2003, 14:31

Someone has to complain about havoc before it's even started so let me kick it off

I got the impression when the idea of resetting everyone's planet was first announced that we'd be set to 0 ships, 0 resources. I was probably wrong but anyway let me explain the problem.

The greatest weakness of PAX imo, is the way it slowly stagnated as people built up fleets. Because all ships fire in combat it's impossible to roid without losing large numbers of ships, unless your target moves their fleet. The first few weeks of the round were a lot of fun, you could lose your whole fleet and it was no biggie, you'd build it back quickly enough. Later on defence became too easy, and several times I even pulled attacks at ETA1 when they had no defence because I was convinced my target wasn't aware of the attack and I'd meet his entire fleet.

Giving everyone a havoc fleet bigger than the rank 1 planet achieved during the whole real round yet only 1500 roids makes this problem worse than ever. And we might have 15 minute ticks too. So now my target has 1hr45mins to get his ass online and run his fleet, or we'll have a big sick battle, I'll lose 15% of my fleet, 15% of my score, and be unable to compete anymore with those that got lucky in their attacks. Most will rightly conclude that attacking is pointless so they'll use their fleet exclusively for defence making it even harder for those trying to have fun collecting roids. Anyone who has friends not intending to play havoc, or worse their very own multi planets, will be able to farm a few K roids risk free.

But the farmers won't win havoc. No. The people that win havoc will be those that donate their resources to the gal fund giving them a miniscule value, and then proceed to covert-op the inactives for 300,000,000 resource a pop. Those that do it the old (and let's face it, fun) way will pick up a measly 300 roids (if their attack gets lucky) and mine them for ~100,000 resource a tick. Leaving them at a significant disadvantage to the covert-oppers I think you'll agree. Oh, I nearly forgot, the covert-oppers in the freebie universe will have much richer pickings of course. Don't suppose you are giving out free downgrade credits?.

No doubt, this was an easy mistake to make, when pateam haven't actively toiled with PAX's quirks for an entire round like the players have. There's always been an assumption that more resources/more ships/bigger fleets automatically equals more fun, but this isn't true for PAX. Please reconsider, I was really looking forward to havoc but as things stand I might not even bother

ParraCida · 27 Dec 2003, 14:44

Since when was havoc about winning? Havoc is about finding your enemies and sending your fleet at them to kill them dead.

gzambo · 27 Dec 2003, 15:50

they could have done it better al right by giving the resources to each race in the ratio that each race needs but that would have to easy i suppose,
the only race with real benefit is xan as it uses a ratio of 1:1:1

General Martok · 27 Dec 2003, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParraCida

Since when was havoc about winning? Havoc is about finding your enemies and sending your fleet at them to kill them dead.

/me nods

Obliterate · 27 Dec 2003, 16:15

It's havoc. Nobody cares.

Blazde · 27 Dec 2003, 17:30

With all respect, this thread isn't really relevant to people who won't play/don't care about havoc.

Cochese · 27 Dec 2003, 17:43

I'm more pissed off about the Constructions.

Why do we have 30 amps AND 30 jammers? Asenine.

Why do we have 30 of each factory? Overly redundant.

All these constructions do is make the cost of building more finance centers--and other useful things--artificially high.

I guess common sense is in short supply.

ParraCida · 27 Dec 2003, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazde

With all respect, this thread isn't really relevant to people who won't play/don't care about havoc.

Incorrect, your entire point is based around the fact that the current game mechanics do not allow for a fair chance to win for every planet, pointing out that havoc is not about 'winning' but about building absurd amounts of fleet and bashing eachother senseless with is for some lighthearted fun does not require any involvement with the current game at all.

Blazde · 27 Dec 2003, 19:06

Most of my point was actually based around the fact that it won't be fun, but I wouldn't mind seeing it fairish too. Infact the coming havoc will be fairer than most because all planets have been set equal and there's even a possibility of getting rid of alliances.

I'm sure everyone has slightly different views about 'what havoc is about'. For me it's always been a chance to have a laugh collecting insane amounts of roids as fast as possible from the inactives. True enough, in the past it's always involved very large numbers of ships, but I think it's worth reconsidering that because PAX is very different from past rounds.

And, if you don't intend to play havoc does your view of 'what it's about' really count for much?

MrL_JaKiri · 27 Dec 2003, 19:15

I personally always saw havoc as a ship combat fest, rather than a big roiding mission.

xtothez · 27 Dec 2003, 19:23

But there should be some method to rebuild your fleet quickly, or havoc will last for only one or two attacks for some people.

Tactitus · 27 Dec 2003, 19:28

Different people view havoc differently. I know some who used their resources to scan for insane amounts of roids; others who suicide their fleet on their enemies; and still others who don't bother logging in at all during havoc.

There's no "right" way to play havoc, just as there's no "right" way to play the regular round (e.g., covert-ops).

Personally, I've always viewed the existence of different strategies and tactics as something of a plus; although HQ never seemed to "get it." :/

King · 27 Dec 2003, 21:23

Is this l4mer complaining about havoc?

Blazde · 27 Dec 2003, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by King

Is this l4mer complaining about havoc?

I believe I covered this question in the first line of the thread, keep up please.

General Martok · 27 Dec 2003, 22:49

For me Havoc is about taking revenge on people you dislike for some reason, or to blast away friends and laugh about it in their faces. Roiding less actives to get a few k roids is boring, I want to see immence battles, not a boring B-rep where you blast away a fleet 10% of yours and capping 2000 roids....

Nitros · 28 Dec 2003, 00:01

zik players can actually buy 666.666 Daggers without trading any recources, coincidence?
oh..and if you hit "cancel" by accident and aftewards re-order them you can only afford 533.333 of them
*cough* didnt happen to me *cough*

(bored)

Andy_r · 28 Dec 2003, 00:01

A sensibly chosen set of numbers would let people play havoc whichever way they wanted.

Since you can both suicide your fleet AND then have the option of covert-opping inactives and maiking another fleet if you so desire, I think this havoc might actually have a reasonable balance.

I'm going to have fun trying the 'stay small and live off covert-ops' route, and try to gain score by structure-bashing other covert op-planets.

King · 28 Dec 2003, 07:23

I complain about PA alot even though I have stoped playing. But havoc = free = they don't have to do it = them being nice = gasp = :smith:

AzureWrath · 28 Dec 2003, 07:53

with all of the ships that will be at each planet, all we will be doing are lemming runs.

"Hey, i just owned the guy who raped me during the round, but i lost all my fleet too! Fun Havoc this is. :|"

Qdeathstar · 28 Dec 2003, 16:59

blazd, although i agree with what you are saying, Parracida is blind... so there is no reason to discuss it with him.

Qdeathstar · 28 Dec 2003, 17:01

although it isnt important who wins/looses...

General Martok · 28 Dec 2003, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureWrath

with all of the ships that will be at each planet, all we will be doing are lemming runs.

"Hey, i just owned the guy who raped me during the round, but i lost all my fleet too! Fun Havoc this is. :|"

There are enough planets out there with stupid fleets, you just have to spend a while looking

Blazde · 28 Dec 2003, 18:28

Actually you don't even have to look far, so it turns out things aren't too bad for the roid hungry like me. I didn't realise just how many people have stopped playing PA this round :| Past havoc's had way better turnouts.

Btw, for those that play havoc to get revenge on their enemies and have vowed to send their big-sick-ass fleet round to my place, you'll be a tad dissapointed. I donated my res to the gal fund, so 'target planet is too small' and stuff.

mikay · 28 Dec 2003, 23:38

I'll have ya roids just watch me

Rudmer · 30 Dec 2003, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazde

several times I even pulled attacks at ETA1 when they had no defence because I was convinced my target wasn't aware of the attack and I'd meet his entire fleet.

wuss...

General Martok · 30 Dec 2003, 12:45

Ghehe some tards even landed on a planet in my gal where we had send 1.6Million ships to in defence. Still landed, total annihilation ofc. Too bad we lost kinda 400k fi too. Ah in the real round i'd be pissed, but now it's havoc. I've seen a nice battlereports so I'm happy

Blazde · 30 Dec 2003, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikay

I'll have ya roids just watch me

I'm watching...

General Martok · 30 Dec 2003, 14:31

I'll go find a < 12M value player to do it for me, cba suiciding just to roid you