Planetarion Forums - Why is it degrading for women to make pr0n movies

Radical Edward · 6 Feb 2004, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynical Oracle

Because society is full of false morals, and culture, as opposite of nature, limits our right to express our natural instincts.

(1) what are "true morals"
(2) what is "nature"
(3) what are our "natural instincts"

Dante Hicks · 6 Feb 2004, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

you would cut off your left legs for the chance of being a male porn star?

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. Aside from anything else I'd be the worst porn star ever.

Nodrog · 6 Feb 2004, 18:00

haha dante has a small penis

Dante Hicks · 6 Feb 2004, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

haha dante has a small penis

Your mum didn't compla...actually, never mind.

Baron Morte · 6 Feb 2004, 18:16

Actually I think that nodrog is absolutely wrong in the provacy bit. Nowadays we are induced by the media in a state of selfishness and utter individualism. In the countries which the capitalism is fully developed, 40% of the homes are occupied by 1 person only, and the current state of affairs indicates that privacy is the best and sharing it with people is stupid, making the interaction between humans even harder.

On the other hand, how degrading would it be to pay one grand of someone to grab a huge turd in its hands and run around the street with it on the hand yelling "its alive its alive" while dressed up like a mad scientist?
Or even better, if someone would pay 10 grand for you to do that in front of your uni, or house, would you do it?

And i dont see this as a comunization of values, its more around moral, not politics.

Cynical Oracle · 6 Feb 2004, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

haha dante has a small penis

I'm not in posession of font's large enough to express my lol after reading this.

You win.

acropolis · 6 Feb 2004, 21:47

Anyway, why is degrading women a bad thing? Assuming that that video on my HD where the guy is pounding her in the ass, then pushes her head in the toilet and flushes (still pumping away) is degrading?

So I start to think of women as sex objects. So what? Mein Kampf and Marx's "On the Jewish Question" make me think of Jews as evil and dangerous, but nobody says we should get rid of their books.

Except in Germany, where up = down etc.

Nodrog · 6 Feb 2004, 21:59

Not to even mention the fact that the bangbus porn paradigm has rendered 'professional porn' obsolete.

LHC · 6 Feb 2004, 22:44

bangbus porn is crappy

queball · 6 Feb 2004, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Morte

Actually I think that nodrog is absolutely wrong in the provacy bit. Nowadays we are induced by the media in a state of selfishness and utter individualism. In the countries which the capitalism is fully developed, 40% of the homes are occupied by 1 person only, and the current state of affairs indicates that privacy is the best and sharing it with people is stupid, making the interaction between humans even harder.

Being ashamed and isolated, wanking the days away in a dark corner of your single-occupier house, is not what most privacy advocates are fighting for (though people can do that if they want ofc

).

You seem to be confusing privacy, as in concealing things from your family, with privacy from media and society, which is an important requisite for enjoying liberty for a lot of non-autistic people.

Consider that you might hear people saying similarly that the Chinese are secretive; that is a social phenomenon rather than "hey I bet that chinese guy has a lot of secrets", though the two might be linked, blah blah blah.

And yeah ok it's advocating traditional values, and presumably nod wasn't entirely serious, and obviously I lack any kind of perspective on society and everything is fad, but I can't ignore posts that complain "we are too selfish!". :-/

Quote:

And i dont see this as a comunization of values, its more around moral, not politics.

The second part of this sentence contradicts the first. And anyway, the personal is the political.

Baron Morte · 7 Feb 2004, 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by queball

The second part of this sentence contradicts the first. And anyway, the personal is the political.

No it doesnt. You are wrong. reread until it makes sense.

Snurx · 7 Feb 2004, 03:36

The reason i see porn as degrading, is the way the object (Be it a female, or a man for gay porn) is (often) shown as a object, a thing to be used for the man (I guess it's in 99% of the cases a man that's the "user"), for his pleasure. Im not against nude bodies, nor sex, im against the objectivisation (is that a word?) of people.

Also, im against the porn industry, beacause it's full of shit. Sure, you lot can probably find many cases where porn companies are relatively "nice" (Still the degrading part), but there has been cases (Not just one) where porn companies are linked with trafficking and so on. Also, i've heard bad rumors about child pornography, but im not sure on that one, so I will not use that as a argument (Althought i just did, lol im clever).

Im not against showing nude bodies, nor having fun in the bedroom. Im against all forms of objectivisation of the "other" involved in the sexual act, be it in a porn movie or in a dark alley.

Snurx · 7 Feb 2004, 03:38

Oh, and if i degraded communists in some way (Communists like it up the ass lol), but did not feel that as degrading, does that not make it degrading? Logic lol

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 03:51

Christ almighty....what a lot of shit some of you have posted. Big words,not knowing what they mean,trying to look smart.

Blah.

Why would people feel porn is degrading to women? Because those particular people cannot fathom themselves in that given situation. They think that, since they would never do it as it went against everything they've been taught and felt, then no-one else would want to either. And that the people who do it must somehow have been victimised,pressures,brainwashed into loosing these values and sence of dignity.

Instead of realising that some people WANT to do it and WILL do it for money they project their sence of outrage onto the women in the movie.
Of course the men are never exploited or degraded as the porn is for men,men are the great sexualiser of everything and morally screwed up.
But the women! Oh good something must have happened to them!

etc

The same applies to other 'demeaning' jobs. Its just a matter of people detesting an idea and automaticaly projecting that everyone else who's "in their right mind" would agree with these values they possess.

Snurx · 7 Feb 2004, 03:56

What? What given situation? Anal sex? I want to try that. Wet sex? I don't want to try that, but it's not really degrading (At least not anymore then two people want in their own bedroom)

Im not projecting my anger at the women in the movies. I "pity" them more, althought that's a pretty horrible term to use. What i hate is the fat ****s who sits and makes money of this shit, and the fact that our society is so perverted.
Oh, and men are degraded in porn too. Ever watched gay porn? Or for that matter, normal porn? The way the males are shown in those is not actually what i want to be associated whit.

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snurx

Im not projecting my anger at the women in the movies. I "pity" them more, althought that's a pretty horrible term to use. What i hate is the fat ****s who sits and makes money of this shit, and the fact that our society is so perverted.

That's my point,you 'pity' them. Your projecting your feelings onto them. You couldnt imagine yourself in that same situation and feeling anything but shame/degredation/humiliation.

It is not degrading to them or to any gender in totality. Its your feelings and your opinon. You are entitled to it but you cant force it on anyone else.

People have their own rights. Your feelings of pity would not be welcome. If I was working hard at a cleaning job and you felt 'pity' for me I'd tell you to go **** yourself.

People have a choice. Thats the whole point.

Plus the 'fat ****s' who make money off this...heh...once again your projecting your own beliefs on someone else.
How dare people do something you find objectionable and even worse how dare someone else make money from it!

They are no different than any other business people. They make money from other peoples work and their own.

You cannot demonise them without demonising every employer and every business.

queball · 7 Feb 2004, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Morte

No it doesnt. You are wrong. reread until it makes sense.

If there is a communisation of values, power is being taken away from the individual, and it is by definition both a political and a moral issue. Choosing whether the best response is personal or public is the next stage. Politics does not imply amorality. If soldiers are ordered to attack innocent people, that is a moral issue.

Not that I don't understand what you're saying - "is porn good or bad???" is the kind of question boy scouts might ask to get their badges in moralism and piety, so we'll often hear it classed as a moral issue. But that's just a cover: it's a way of getting busybodies to mind their own business while making them feel they've earned their way to heaven. But even against spectacular evidence, those sentiments flare up every so often. Porn, abortion, religion... they're all political issues somewhere in the world. "Should I discriminate against ******s?" might have been classed as a moral issue once. Then it become political. It's just a matter of degree. So in conclusion porn should be made available from all public libraries.

Snurx · 7 Feb 2004, 04:20

But i am demonizing every employer!

Why is it not degrading showing women/men as sexual objects?

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 04:31

Because you are attaching some moral value on the depiction of a natural act.
And moral values are arbitary.
I ask you what is so wrong about portraying people as objects? Objects of what?

Sexual desire? Then you must condem most films,bands,tv shows,ad's,magazines as they all portray people as objects of desire in some fashion.

What would you have people do? Get to know their personality first? Try to understand their emotions? Care about their feelings?
We treat almost everyone as an 'object' as you put it. Anyone you deal with has a link to yourself,anyone who does not have some effect on you is disregarded. You are objectifying everyone. That is how things are.

Again all you are doing is projecting your moral values,your personal thoughts and feelings onto a person in a given sitation where you would not feel comfortable.
This is not degrading,that is simply your problem.Not anyone elses.

Snurx · 7 Feb 2004, 04:51

Natural act? Would you say most porn is a natural act? Again, the whole "plaything of the male" comes into it. (Male used as it's mostly males) The woman that's ****ed is a toy that the male can use for his own pleasure. I thought sex was a two-way thing, why is then always the woman that's zommed into, the woman that does the acting, and so on. Sex is NOT the act of a male having fun against a woman, is it? For me, it's wrong to portray women as a sexual object. Why? Beacause women are NOT our ****ing plaything. It's a two way thing that's lacking from all porn i've ever watched, and i've watched a lot!
Stick it up the ass, okay! Two penises in the ass, one in the mouth, one in the vagina, ok! Ten men cumshotting over me, fine! Is that natural? Porn is so much "harder" and more "perverted" then normal sex. Do you know many women that does anal sex? Do you know many women that likes cumshots in the face, and then licking all the sperm of the **** while smiling and saying "thank you"? They probably exists, but you can't say that's the natural reaction of a woman. (I don't like to classify actions of individuals as natural anyways, so both our logics fall in my head)

Again, im not against any forms of sex! Nor random or casual sex, as long as it's two (or more) persons consenting they can do whatever the **** they like. Im all for the freedom of sex, for everybody. But, i don't see a that a thing like sex has anything to do whit porn, i see porn as a bad imitation of a lovely and natural thing.

Treat people as objects? I don't treat the people around me as a toy, nor as a t-shirt, but as other selfs.

AGAIN, i'm not against the woman that is in the porn movie, im agaist the porn movie in itself.
Oh, and of course im projecting my own set of morals. What are we doing when we are discussing things? My feelings against nazies don't count, beacause it's just my moral value? WTF?

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 05:37

Your not getting the point.
Most of this discussion is why some people think women in porn are degraded. And that begs the question what exactly is 'degrading'

de·grade

To lower in dignity; dishonor or disgrace
To reduce in worth or value
To lower in moral or intellectual character

Well...since morals are arbitary and the fact that peoples opinons on how their dignity might be lowered are also varied then how can you nail down what it means.That is what this is about.

Sex is a natural act, it is necessary for procreation. It is also used for pleasure, this too is natural to the human race. It can be found to be morally objectionable,outlawed,scorned but people will always be drawn to it as it is in their makeup,they are compelled to it.

In relation to your 'mans plaything' rant. You seem to be forgetting that since male porn is made for males,it would focus on the gratification of men. Female porn focuses on the gratification of women. Its a 'product'.
You are not actually having sex with these women or men,you are not interacting with them. You cannot harm them,take advantage of them and so you cannot force them to be your "plaything".
Your watching a film or looking at pictures. Its content is what's exciting. Your using the product and its depictions as your plaything.
Clearly what you dont like is the men in the movie performing acts on the women. Your feeling is that they making her into a plaything for them. They are not,they are performing acts for a camera.

The only way your opinon would be vaild is if you were personally using a woman as your "play thing" and since you have such moral fibre in you and wouldnt dream of this,then there is nothing to worry about.

And in most porn,dont you see women 'enjoying it' ?(as in acting or actually liking it?)
I could not stand to see porn where women are forced to do things,where they are clearly hating something being done to them.After all that would be sexual assault and/or rape and a case of harm to an indiviual.

And it's very presumtious of you to label it perverted. Clearly you just want straight vaginal sex with no messing around as it is the least objectionable to your moral values.

How dare you label regular things people do as perverted just because you dont agree with them.
And "natural reaction of a woman" again WHAT? If she likes it then clearly it IS her natural reaction. If she doesnt like it then what the hell is she doing it for?

Porn actresses are just that,actresses. Acting that they like it is all part of the fantasy.
Would you stop a big screen actor from playing a serial killer because its not natural for them to like killing. They are acting.

Your point of view seems to stem from the fact that you find porn morally objectionable and that you fail to understand its function and the human condition.

What I mean by everyone is treated as an object is that just that. They are an object in your universe. They are present in your perceptions because they interact with you and cause you to react.
The only reason you care about these objects is because they have an influence on you. On your universe. You might care about their feelings,only because doing so make you feel something. That is intrinsicly the fundemental nature of things.

People are things to you,they have an impression on your universe so you consider them. Porn is not 'people',its a product for peoples pleasure and so should not be regarded with similar attention as real people are.
The point being, the people in the porn are 'actors',they portray a situation for the entertainment of the viewer. If those people have no problem with acting in the ways required then there should be no objections to its existance.
Morality should not enter into it. If you dont like it then dont watch it. If no-one is hurt,if no-one is damaged then you can have no objections.

Sex is natural, your view of it being a special thing, something to be cherished as an initmate act is just that, a view of it.

It is stupid and totally wrong to bring up a point about Nazi's and so on. They were people who were doing harm. It should not be permitted to harm individuals. Opinons of political ideals and so on are just that,opinons. But when acts are carried out then this becomes more than just discussion or a question of ethics.

Regular porn,if not harming any individual involved,is perfectly acceptable.
You might not like it and that again is perfectly acceptable.
You should not try to enforce some action against people who are not harming anyone just because it doesnt fit your moral compass.

Cynical Oracle · 7 Feb 2004, 11:49

I have given up a long time ago Inc..

These people (few of them) don't understand that they are the ones degrading the women.

Dante Hicks · 7 Feb 2004, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

You should not try to enforce some action against people who are not harming anyone just because it doesnt fit your moral compass.

I'm smelling a straw man here. I've not paid attention for the last few posts, but has anyone mentioned "enforcing" (e.g. banning) against porn?

People can have moral objections to something without wishing for it to be banned or restricted.

For the record, I'm in favour of porn - the more degrading the better. I'm presuming the people involved are all willing participants, but as I'm for the development of positive freedom (i.e. assisting others so they can develop fully as human beings) I presume in the longer term anyone who doesn't wish to do porn wouldn't have to. I'm sure some of the girls/women who currently do porn would have done something else if they'd had a superior upbringing / etc. This is an assumption of course, and I'm sure a lot of the women would have still done porn regardless.

As for Snurx's objectification point, I have some sympathy but I'm not sure. I don't like the fact that pictures of women are plastered on bill boards every ten foot pushing a certain beauty standard (especially as it's completley inappropriate in some areas). I don't see how by me watching porn (or anything really) changes my opinion of women in a broader social sense. Perhaps other people are different though, but we might (as usual) be only talking about a few marginal nutters.

Like, for instance, the guy who killed that woman and put her in the crate. I think the Daily Mirror headline was "Killed by the Internet".

cypher · 7 Feb 2004, 12:43

in porn only men are degraded... as they get paid fk all for it compared to women....

finally women have an occupation where they get paid more then men and still all those damn lame feminists iq less people can only whine.

feminists should try and rise above the iq of 88 for once and actually think....

why is it bad for someone to do what he/she likes and enjoys?

p.s. didn't read everything clearly...cba but i'm bored at work

Dante Hicks · 7 Feb 2004, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphie

why is it bad for someone to do what he/she likes and enjoys?

As I've said, if it does a "social harm" then it'd be bad, even if the person involved enjoys it.

edit : p.s. most "proper" Feminists aren't stupid. Not in an IQ sense anyway.

MrL_JaKiri · 7 Feb 2004, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

most "proper" Feminists aren't stupid. Not in an IQ sense anyway.

It wouldn't matter if they did have low IQs, because the test doesn't mean anything

acropolis · 7 Feb 2004, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snurx

I thought sex was a two-way thing...Sex is NOT the act of a male having fun against a woman, is it? For me, it's wrong to portray women as a sexual object. Why? Beacause women are NOT our ****ing plaything. It's a two way thing that's lacking from all porn i've ever watched, and i've watched a lot!
?

dude your so pussy whipped

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 15:02

Dante,you said you hadn't read the last few posts so please refrain from looking at the last line of my post and then finding fault with it. If you haven't read it then you cant comment on it.

And what 'social harm' does it do exactly? People say that without thinking.
Social harm as in it encourages us to view women as purely sexual? Have you seen many ad's,tv programs and film of late? People are objects of sexual desire. The end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acropolis

dude your so pussy whipped

Hehe,I think snurx gave up as the overwhelming holes in this arguments were pointed out,either that or he fell asleep or his porn had finished downloading.
Oh and he's prolly pussy whipped.

Deciduous · 7 Feb 2004, 15:51

I read an article about some study done in France, where incidence of gang rape by groups of youths was very high and it was being attributed to the pornography they watched.
Before you start flaming me I didn't write the article, only read it. No I can't remember where it is, but I'll see if I can find it.

cypher · 7 Feb 2004, 16:18

let's ban the news stations too.... surely enough people get idea's from there:/

if someone does stuff cuz of something they see on tv, they're mentally challenged to start with anyways (or their parents.)

Nodrog · 7 Feb 2004, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cypher

lif someone does stuff cuz of something they see on tv, they're mentally challenged to start with anyways (or their parents.)

You mean like "buying music" or "forming an opinion on the news"?

cypher · 7 Feb 2004, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

You mean like "buying music" or "forming an opinion on the news"?

i mean like start beating up someone cuz they saw that on power rangers
stuff like this is what i meant.

(I used power rangers example because a friend of mine has had trouble controlling his agression because of this show) (hi leshy.)

rgds to kjel aswell.

Dante Hicks · 7 Feb 2004, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deciduous

I read an article about some study done in France, where incidence of gang rape by groups of youths was very high and it was being attributed to the pornography they watched.

I've heard similar arguments, and I've wondered about it. It might indeed be true. There have been a recent upsurge (according to the police at least) of gang-rapes in Britain (I think there's one allegation a day or something like that - article here)

I'm sure that if you did a comprehensive survey of the lads involved in this type of crime, you'd probably find they were into some dodgy porn. But so what? "Rape" porn appears to be scarily popular, as does other types of degrading/oppressive/etc porn. Since only a tiny subset of the people who download/watch it go on to commit crimes like this, surely the issue is trying to identify why they did it, rather than blaming porn.

Cultural attitude towards women (which isn't wholly down to porn) would probably be of greater importance. People from more reactionary cultures (you know, like townies, blacks, muslims, etc) seem more likely to do things like this (obviously relative level of education is important too). That strikes me as more of a decisive influence.

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 20:50

Well is the fact that these people might be watching some 'dodgy porn' as Dante put it is somewhat of a misnomer.
If they commit sexual crimes and have been found to like watching porn featuring similar situations to that is it BECAUSE they watched the movies or they watched the movies BECAUSE they have sexual craving.

Chicken and the egg situation (so to speak)

Ted Bundy used to watch excerpts from Star Wars: Return of the Jedi,where the emperor was torturing luke ,to get his kicks. It got him off and he then psyched himself up watching bits of films where people had absoulte power over someone and then went out to kill.
Is it Star Wars' fault that this happend?

You cant excuse your behavior with the claim "a film gave me the idea,its not my fault"

Dante Hicks · 7 Feb 2004, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

You cant excuse your behavior with the claim "a film gave me the idea,its not my fault"

If we're commenting on social affairs then we're not dealing with excuses. We're dealing with causes and effects. Individuals of course cannot justify their actions by "porn made me do it" but if we find that something (be it violent movies, or pornography or whatever) IS having a detrimental social effect (e.g. upsurge in violent crimes) then that is very useful information.

It does NOT mean we should be banning things left right and centre, but it might mean we can target funds more accurately when trying to stop these crimes from ocurring.

We all know that people who gang rape others are doing something wrong so moral condemnation seems pointless. We should be trying to work out why people are acting so inhumanely to others.

IncubusGod · 7 Feb 2004, 21:14

Well as you've pointed out,it's a problem with people.

If people are violent then the causes of that should be researched and addressed. If it is possibly to prevent situations that might cause such things to occur then we should endevour to do that with respect to the rights of everyone else in society.
You cant' just ban porn because it might infulence people to commit sexual crimes just like you can't ban cars from the roads because people joyride.

I agree with what your saying but it is far off topic now.
What were were talking about was porn and peoples attitudes to it.

But that part of the thread seems to be dead,baby. So lets all have some drinks while we wait for some other idiot to rant in a non-coherent way.

Nodrog · 7 Feb 2004, 21:30

It seems highly questionable to blame pornography for the situation in france, but then I know very little about the issue. You'd probably have a better case blaming hiphop or French Existentialism or something.

Ebany · 7 Feb 2004, 21:41

There have been comments regarding porn films focussing on the women rather than the men, thus making the woman more 'objectified' than the men involved. This isnt particularly due to the porn being aimed at men, most women who watch porn don't want to see the men that much either (men in porn films have a tendency to be really ugly - theyre recruited more cause they can keep it up with the camera on them and are well....equipped...rather than for their looks).

As for the degrading bits, and those complaining about films where the woman is 'used', why the assumption that the only people who watch do it to see themselves as the dominant party. I enjoy watching just such films cause I like to watch the one being submissive. If you arent into any kind of power play with you sex then these kind of films probably will seem bizarre and distasteful to you, just as films with anal sex seem vile to those who thinks, as a friend of mine puts it 'that way should be exit only'. A surprising number of women when surveyed reveal they had rape fantasies (glad I wasnt the only one) - its not that they want to be raped, nor do they want others to be raped, but feeding the fantasy with a bit of rape porn (where you know it is all acting) can be very stimulating.

The adult work I did was pretty much for my own enjoyment (although the money was a pleasant bonus). If anything I was frustrated that it never got finished as we didnt get round to filming the part that appealed to me the most. I still havent had a chance to experience what I missed. It isnt something I would do now, as my exhibitionism has calmed down somewhat, but it certainly isnt something I regret, or feel I was coerced into, or that I was degraded by. I agree with those who say its all down to a persons own values. I would have felt more degraded if I had had to work as a cleaner to get by than I was by making a porn film.

BeeKiller · 8 Feb 2004, 01:15

did your film ever make it to eBay ebany? :P heh.
\o/

Ebany · 8 Feb 2004, 01:16

It never even made it to pay sites, so no, it didnt get to eBay.

BeeKiller · 8 Feb 2004, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebany

It never even made it to pay sites, so no, it didnt get to eBay.

remember, YOU have the power to make it so!

Ebany · 8 Feb 2004, 01:19

No I dont. Even I dont have a copy.

IncubusGod · 9 Feb 2004, 01:37

Personaly if I was in a porn flick I'd want a copy just so I could remind myself of the good 'ol days when I'm old and withered. Well actually I'd just replace it's label of "I Dream Of Creaming" with "Video Will" then laugh on my death bed.

(Actually thats a damn good title for a pic,go go gadget porno director!)

Weeks · 9 Feb 2004, 01:40

Because sex is suppose to be something sacred and speical between two people?
Artifical situations and taping it makes it less so?

IncubusGod · 9 Feb 2004, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Octagonecologyst

Because sex is suppose to be something sacred and speical between two people?
Artifical situations and taping it makes it less so?

Why is it? Tell me why? Apart from religious and 'moral' reasons imposed on and taught to people.

If your just gonna jump in at the end of the thread and not read the posts that came before then why bother? Your just posting something numerous people posted before and numerous people countered with their views.

queball · 9 Feb 2004, 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncubusGod

Why is it? Tell me why? Apart from religious and 'moral' reasons imposed on and taught to people.

If your just gonna jump in at the end of the thread and not read the posts that came before then why bother? Your just posting something numerous people posted before and numerous people countered with their views.

All I saw was Snurx posting, and you making spectacular use of the "well, that's just like your opinion man" argument. An argument doesn't "lose" because it is based on morals or religion. If you really don't feel that sex is intimate and special, and that porn makes it less so then that's just your opinion. People will value whatever they value; if they decide to try to explain their values then that's great, and if you disagree that's ok too. But you haven't even started to argue against the argument that porn makes sex less special to those who do value it. You seem to just be giving standard liberal answers without addressing any real issue.

IncubusGod · 9 Feb 2004, 02:15

erm,I didnt say I "won" anything...I said that the same arguments have been put forward before and that people with differing opinons stated theirs. You can never 'win' an argument like this as it's so subjetive.

All I was saying is lets not just end up reposting the same stuff over and over because people wont read back a few posts.