Planetarion Forums - Any smokers on these forums?

Evergreen · 5 Jan 2004, 02:30

Jonny makes winning argument.

Now can we lay this to rest.

Phang · 5 Jan 2004, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBOY

Smoking, anti-social?
Really, how is it then that peer pressure is one of the greatest causes to start smoking?
Why is it then that so many people actually smoke in pubs?
Why is it in the pretty much every pub i've been in across the country (lots) the non smoking section is always smaller than the smoking section?

dealt with

Quote:

As stated, smokers actually contribute a great deal of tax money... why should anyone take that into consideration?

and go and spend it and more on being cancered

Quote:

You wouldn't serve anyone with bad breath from smoke? what if they had bad skin from a disease, or different coloured skin from another country? where is the line that your making?

last i checked, exposure to níggers doesnt cause cancer

Quote:

Smoking a disgusting filthy habit?

yes?

Quote:

the comparison to alcahol as a bad habit has already been made.

* has 20** and beats wife in **** filled rage.

* Smoker / Alcaholic

**ciggy's / Pints

*** Smoke / drunken

also dealt with

JBOY · 5 Jan 2004, 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

SO THAT STUPID STUPID ARGUMENT FROM JBOY ASIDE.

One day, just one day, you might be able to try and lure me into an argument.

one day. but since it's so blinking obvious. i doubt it.

is your name Deffeh btw?

JBOY · 5 Jan 2004, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

dealt with

and go and spend it and more on being cancered

last i checked, exposure to níggers doesnt cause cancer

yes?

also dealt with

what

Deffeh · 5 Jan 2004, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBOY

Considering your normal balanced views, this particular topic seems to have hit a nerve. what an incredibly arrogant twattish post to have made.

Smoking, anti-social?
Really, how is it then that peer pressure is one of the greatest causes to start smoking?
Why is it then that so many people actually smoke in pubs?
Why is it in the pretty much every pub i've been in across the country (lots) the non smoking section is always smaller than the smoking section?

As stated, smokers actually contribute a great deal of tax money... why should anyone take that into consideration?

You wouldn't serve anyone with bad breath from smoke? what if they had bad skin from a disease, or different coloured skin from another country? where is the line that your making?

Smoking a disgusting filthy habit?

the comparison to alcahol as a bad habit has already been made.

* has 20** and beats wife in **** filled rage.

* Smoker / Alcaholic

**ciggy's / Pints

*** Smoke / drunken

I resent being considered to have normal balanced views, all i do is rant. You must have just been in agreement with me on various issues until now. Anyway,

I fail to see what possible point you are making by bringing the peer pressure into it. In what way, does your friends doing it make it ok? People do it to begin with because they think it makes them grown up, or they think it makes them different. Or they hang about with twats who fall into one of the above categories and thus do it "by default". Its very difficult to find something different to occupy yourself during a "fag break" at work, or an interval in school. People are too stupid to say no.

Pubs? It only takes one smoker for a group of friends to sit in the smoking section just to not cause any hassle within the unit. Cause that desperate ****er would have to go over to the smoking section alone, or outside, or he wouldnt get a precious ciggy and hed get moody. And if theres one, theres probably two because of the peer pressure thing.

Hence the non smoking section being smaller. And youll find that while most non smokers would prefer NOT to have to breathe in smoke at all, that most non smokers dont care so vehemously about it that they wont go to the pub / sit in a smoky pub / sit in a restraunt where smoking is allowed etc. Id still do what i want to do, but id certainly rather some faggot wasnt smoking his sin sticks near me.

Tax money i dont care about, im not going into the financial side of things.

The line that im making is i dont see why i should have to suffer for someones self inflicted habit. Its not mohammed fault hes black, its not hawkings fault hes disabled, its ozzys fault he stinks of fags. And besides, someone being a different colour doesnt affect me. A skin disease wouldnt affect me except if it was contagious, in which case id take the neccesary safety precautions. But why should i be expected to help someone find something whos going to breathe smoky breath in my face? I should be able to sue if someone touches me with yellow stained fingers.

Im not defending alcohol, but alcohol is a whole other issue. Equally i feel that i shouldnt have to serve anyone whos going to breathe alcohol in my face. I shouldnt have to ever deal with anyone who drinks Tennents. As to the affects, alcohol is a social laxative - and while you can argue that "fag breaks" etc bring people into social situations, alcohol has an affect that ( in moderation) is socially stimulating, whereas smoking ciggarettes is an entirely pointless act. An alcohol spillage sucks, but it isnt as bad as a fag burn or ash on your clothes. Alcohol may smell if its spilt on you, but its not as bad as having holes or lovely black cancer marks on your shirt.

Phang · 5 Jan 2004, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBOY

what

what?

Evergreen · 5 Jan 2004, 02:40

I wasn't luring you in.

I was pointing out why you shouldn't partake.

And seriously what is it with the flames/insults/trolls on the forums these days, it's like watching series 7 of red dwarf. You are expecting something good and witty and instead.. well you know the rest.

JBOY · 5 Jan 2004, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

I resent being considered to have normal balanced views, all i do is rant. You must have just been in agreement with me on various issues until now. Anyway,

I fail to see what possible point you are making by bringing the peer pressure into it. In what way, does your friends doing it make it ok? People do it to begin with because they think it makes them grown up, or they think it makes them different. Or they hang about with twats who fall into one of the above categories and thus do it "by default". Its very difficult to find something different to occupy yourself during a "fag break" at work, or an interval in school. People are too stupid to say no.

Pubs? It only takes one smoker for a group of friends to sit in the smoking section just to not cause any hassle within the unit. Cause that desperate ****er would have to go over to the smoking section alone, or outside, or he wouldnt get a precious ciggy and hed get moody. And if theres one, theres probably two because of the peer pressure thing.

Hence the non smoking section being smaller. And youll find that while most non smokers would prefer NOT to have to breathe in smoke at all, that most non smokers dont care so vehemously about it that they wont go to the pub / sit in a smoky pub / sit in a restraunt where smoking is allowed etc. Id still do what i want to do, but id certainly rather some faggot wasnt smoking his sin sticks near me.

Tax money i dont care about, im not going into the financial side of things.

The line that im making is i dont see why i should have to suffer for someones self inflicted habit. Its not mohammed fault hes black, its not hawkings fault hes disabled, its ozzys fault he stinks of fags. And besides, someone being a different colour doesnt affect me. A skin disease wouldnt affect me except if it was contagious, in which case id take the neccesary safety precautions. But why should i be expected to help someone find something whos going to breathe smoky breath in my face? I should be able to sue if someone touches me with yellow stained fingers.

Im not defending alcohol, but alcohol is a whole other issue. Equally i feel that i shouldnt have to serve anyone whos going to breathe alcohol in my face. I shouldnt have to ever deal with anyone who drinks Tennents. As to the affects, alcohol is a social laxative - and while you can argue that "fag breaks" etc bring people into social situations, alcohol has an affect that ( in moderation) is socially stimulating, whereas smoking ciggarettes is an entirely pointless act. An alcohol spillage sucks, but it isnt as bad as a fag burn or ash on your clothes. Alcohol may smell if its spilt on you, but its not as bad as having holes or lovely black cancer marks on your shirt.

bravo.

a sensible reply \o/

Deffeh · 5 Jan 2004, 02:44

i neither know whether your sarcastic or not, nor why you havent replied properly yourself.

And comparing me to Sunday is ****ing harsh

JBOY · 5 Jan 2004, 02:48

i was being serious.

good reply. the other two before it were just crappy non argumentative replies without actual thought or personal opinion behind them.

________________

the kaneed wanking thread was the first thread i read on here in a couple of days(weeks).

read about 2-3 "evergreen" posts and decided it was you, then clicked the link. realised it was you by the time i'd read to round 4. (Lo Revvy round 3). Lo collector of fast cars(summat like that).

Good old fashioned lure people into arguments, then dont actually argue about the subject, just random semi insults with a bit of quotation trolling aint been seen in these parts in ****ing ages.

I almost miss it.

Evergreen · 5 Jan 2004, 02:49

Deffeh in not understanding anything shocker!

Deffeh actually displaying humility and admitting that no-one can be as bad as him.

Smoking argument already carried beyond what deffeh had said by jonny but being successfully ignored.

p.s. I'd take jboy's encouragement with a large pinch of salt given his dayjob.

JBOY · 5 Jan 2004, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

Deffeh in not understanding anything shocker!

Deffeh actually displaying humility and admitting that no-one can be as bad as him.

Smoking argument already carried beyond what deffeh had said by jonny but being successfully ignored.

p.s. I'd take jboy's encouragement with a large pinch of salt given his dayjob.

you missed my point entirely.

i'd read the argument, my post was about deffeh's reaction rather than where the argument had gotten to.

what is my dayjob these days btw?

PS. good try with the insult the occupation.

Evergreen · 5 Jan 2004, 02:53

If I'm not mistaken you had moved into Social services or along those lines. If by means you have changed jobs since then then I'm not surprised.

Shr00m · 5 Jan 2004, 05:42

If they want to ban smoking in all public places, why don't they just take the step of banning smoking altogether. It's going to happen eventually and I think everyone knows it. Spending an evening in a smoky bar once a week dozen raise your chances all that much, at least when compared to smoking 2 or 3 packs a day like many smokers do. So if you are doing this to save you money, which I saw a lot of, this isn't going to help much. Also, I don't really like government imposed morality/ethics and all that.

Dante Hicks · 5 Jan 2004, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

On a political level it's not really symptomatic of a decline into totalitarianism (they did it in new york i think) as it's an actual real health concern

So it's OK over-ride private property rights if there's a health justification?

Evergreen · 5 Jan 2004, 10:53

You talk about private rights like you aren't already paying taxes already for it.

You have as much private property rights as the native animal species have to your land.

5 Jan 2004, 11:13

Smoking costs approximately 3x more for healthcare than revenue raised.

Phang · 5 Jan 2004, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

So it's OK over-ride private property rights if there's a health justification?

how dare you suggest i can't fire my gun in crowded rooms

Dante Hicks · 5 Jan 2004, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

You talk about private rights like you aren't already paying taxes already for it.

We don't pay taxes for private land. I think you are slightly confused as to the role of government here, and the role of taxation. Besides, my taxes don't go towards supporting private property (except corporate subsidy, lol). The government don't own the land, and we don't rent it off them, if that's what you're thinking.

Quote:

You have as much private property rights as the native animal species have to your land.

Wrong. I don't own any land but I have an agreement with my landlord (freeholder or deedholder if you want) which gives me certain rights under said agreement. If we're saying that the government can intervene wherever they want then that's cool, but we may as well abandon the rule of law completley.

Dante Hicks · 5 Jan 2004, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

how dare you suggest i can't fire my gun in crowded rooms

What the hell does that have to do with anything? I'm not saying smokers have the right to smoke where they wish. Try and remember that.

I'm saying that if I want to allow someone to smoke in my home, or place, or business, or whatever then I should be allowed. If you are visiting my home/place of business, and one of my other visitors smokes, feel free to leave if you feel aggreived. If I value your visiting more than his smoking, I shall ask him to stop, or leave.

(Note : For reference I'm not a smoker, I hate it, it's a disgusting habit and it stinks my clothes up everytime I go out)

Evergreen · 5 Jan 2004, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

We don't pay taxes for private land. I think you are slightly confused as to the role of government here, and the role of taxation. Besides, my taxes don't go towards supporting private property (except corporate subsidy, lol). The government don't own the land, and we don't rent it off them, if that's what you're thinking.Wrong. I don't own any land but I have an agreement with my landlord (freeholder or deedholder if you want) which gives me certain rights under said agreement. If we're saying that the government can intervene wherever they want then that's cool, but we may as well abandon the rule of law completley.

I wasn't saying that.

I was more aiming along the lines of protection racket and how you can't stop anyone doing whatever they want on your "private property" without the goverment.

Dante Hicks · 5 Jan 2004, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen

I was more aiming along the lines of protection racket and how you can't stop anyone doing whatever they want on your "private property" without the goverment.

The monopoly of violence is something artificially enforced by the state anyway. Most pubs _do_ stop people they don't wish from entering without recourse to the police (of course they are there as a final result). Realistically, if someone did start smoking in my home without my permission I'd attempt to stop them.

Even if that was the reality, I'm not sure that would make it any more justified. "We're going to stop people smoking in your home cos without us you'd get beaten up" doesn't strike me as a wonderful argument in terms of morality.